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Author Topic: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate  (Read 3254 times)

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Offline Oniya

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Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #50 on: October 17, 2013, 02:15:10 PM »
Or while I am on my soap box fur. Fur is politically incorrect and evil in the popular press. We also have an overpopulation of furbearers that are decimating other species http://www.deltawaterfowl.org/what-we-do/management.html  And then add to that real fur is also better for the environment than synthetic garments http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/the_green_lantern/2010/01/a_hairy_situation.html

Remember what the rabbits did to Australia.  *nods*  I don't feel guilty at all for that massage mitt.

Offline WindVoyager

Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #51 on: October 17, 2013, 04:48:13 PM »
PETA likely thinks the population will just balance back out on its own. With a lack of natural predators that won't happen. Look at how deer are massively over populated in many areas and PETA pitches massive fits when they are culled for the sake of both the deer and humans.

They love to think fake fur is good when it produces MORE toxic waste then any tannery does. Not to mention fake furs just feels so ....fake.

Don't forget they love to support feral cats and the who trap, neuter and dump operations that are wrecking native and migratory wild life and the feral cats spread diseases and parasites to native wild life and cause all kinds of damage to property. All the money wasted on TNR could have been used to save the lives of adoptable cats in shelters and rescue and help support low cost clinics.

Last I heard they were campaigning to stop Australia from hiring people to shoot feral cats, foxes and rabbits due to the massive amount of damage they do to the local wildlife and many feral cat supporters refuse to believe that feral cats are directly respoible for putting so many species on the extinct list

I'm tempted to look at their website for a good laugh

Offline Shadowclaw

Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #52 on: October 31, 2013, 12:33:48 AM »
Yeah, people who blindly support causes without looking into them... are tools. Sorry, but they are. I would NEVER give any organization a single sent or second of my time without doing a good amount of research on them. I've known about PETA for years, and those bastards are sick evil twisted psychos who breed other sick evil twisted psychos. They're actually worse than scientologists.

Offline Shadowclaw

Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #53 on: October 31, 2013, 12:37:44 AM »
Okay, maybe I shouldn't have brought up Scientology. But I've heard of PETA doing some truly despicable awful things. I don't even like to think about it so I'm going to post in another thread somewhere. I'm a huge lover of animals, so stuff like this really bothers me. *shivers*

Offline Silk

Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2013, 06:55:47 PM »
Just putting this out there for a few people, are you aware of just how strict the measures are? For a Comparative Psychology study that our university proposed about how odor having an effect on how long it took a rat to complete a maze and how it may relate to human sensory adaption to finding each other, (example between a female rat in heat to one who wasn't) needed a on site vet, a animal welfare officer, roughly 3000 worth of safety precautions (for 6 rats) weekly checks to make sure that the animals were well treated and all studies had to be recorded and done in the presence of said animal welfare officer.

We just wanted to have a rat run through a maze and time how long it took when particular smells were involved :(
« Last Edit: November 06, 2013, 06:59:49 PM by Silk »

Offline vivaciousvixen

Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2013, 11:27:13 AM »
...they are extremists who give the whole thing a bad name.

That is exactly what I think of PETA. Extremists - the only word to describe them accurately. And they are breeding a lot of young extremist through their graphic advertisements and celebrity endorsements.

I am a proud pet owner who has always loved animals and wanted to be a vet in my early childhood (until i discovered how much blood is involved!). I currently own a wolf hybrid and a husky mix on my plot in a rural neighborhood. I hunt and fish and get dirty when necessary. I kill when I have to and even for sport, but I try to be as humane as possible and because I am a spiritual person, I say a prayer for each animal or bug I kill. A bit silly for some, but I don't bother anyone directly, and I also don't ask others to do the same. I just do MY own thing that makes me happy and comfortable with taking the life of the animal, or feeling like I caused it harm. I also try to ensure that the death is respected by making the most use of the animal as possible.

I recently posted an opinion on a public forum regarding the incident in which police shot a Rottweiler in Hawthorne, CA. I stated that the police were not in the wrong for shooting the dog, because factually, they were not. The slew of outcries against me ranged from people wanting me to be shot, all the way to that I would rot in Hell. That is what PETA breeds. When did it become okay to put animals before people? I think we should respect animals, but to go so far as to say you would rather a person get mauled by a dog, than shoot an attacking dog in defense is illogical.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2013, 11:32:38 AM »
Re-reading thru their wiki article and a few news articles over this weekend, I was amazed to see how much of their cash collection is centralized. You donate to your local PETA chapter, it goes up the chain to national rather than staying in the area for the most part. I saw how the leader/founder of PETA has little to no oversight and felt a parallel between her and the founder of Julian Assange come into view.

Both are very charismatic characters with a very dictatorial leadership style. IE.. it's THEIR way or the highway. I find myself wondering how many special interests are like that now.

Offline WindVoyager

Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #57 on: December 04, 2013, 11:07:25 PM »
Quote
I recently posted an opinion on a public forum regarding the incident in which police shot a Rottweiler in Hawthorne, CA. I stated that the police were not in the wrong for shooting the dog, because factually, they were not. The slew of outcries against me ranged from people wanting me to be shot, all the way to that I would rot in Hell. That is what PETA breeds. When did it become okay to put animals before people? I think we should respect animals, but to go so far as to say you would rather a person get mauled by a dog, than shoot an attacking dog in defense is illogical.

Every time a cop rightfully shoots a dog in self defense or in defense of public safety there is a massive out cry. Tazers don't work well on dogs and won't stop an aggressive one from attacking yet people insist they be used.

There was a new story were a pair of dogs were allowed to roam and pulled a child off his bike and mauled him and were stated to be destroyed but the public is demanding the dogs be returned to the owner. Some of the comments were stating how it was just a 'nip' and since the dogs were 'working dogs' (they weren't') it was perfectly exceptabel for them to maul a child. The kid needed over 30 stitches and was so badly mauled he had to be air lifted. Thats one hell of a nip

In every story you see about a cop shooting a dog beocuse its aggressive and its a threat to their safety and public safety, there will always be people whining that the offers be fired




Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #58 on: December 04, 2013, 11:21:28 PM »
Every time a cop rightfully shoots a dog in self defense or in defense of public safety there is a massive out cry. Tazers don't work well on dogs and won't stop an aggressive one from attacking yet people insist they be used.

There was a new story were a pair of dogs were allowed to roam and pulled a child off his bike and mauled him and were stated to be destroyed but the public is demanding the dogs be returned to the owner. Some of the comments were stating how it was just a 'nip' and since the dogs were 'working dogs' (they weren't') it was perfectly exceptabel for them to maul a child. The kid needed over 30 stitches and was so badly mauled he had to be air lifted. Thats one hell of a nip

In every story you see about a cop shooting a dog beocuse its aggressive and its a threat to their safety and public safety, there will always be people whining that the offers be fired

Then there are the 'other cases' where a 15 year old dog with hip displasia and joint issues and a history of never barking, or being violent at all is shot down by a cop because supposedly the dog was 'trying to jump the fence' and moved to attack him in his backyard.

There are both pro and con issues on this. It's one thing that has to be done case by case..

Offline Ivory11

Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #59 on: December 05, 2013, 08:00:51 AM »
The whole situation with Peta can be summed up nicely in this episode of "Penn and Teller's Bullshit"


Offline Ivory11

Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #60 on: December 05, 2013, 08:23:19 AM »
PETA likely thinks the population will just balance back out on its own. With a lack of natural predators that won't happen. Look at how deer are massively over populated in many areas and PETA pitches massive fits when they are culled for the sake of both the deer and humans.

They love to think fake fur is good when it produces MORE toxic waste then any tannery does. Not to mention fake furs just feels so ....fake.

Don't forget they love to support feral cats and the who trap, neuter and dump operations that are wrecking native and migratory wild life and the feral cats spread diseases and parasites to native wild life and cause all kinds of damage to property. All the money wasted on TNR could have been used to save the lives of adoptable cats in shelters and rescue and help support low cost clinics.

Last I heard they were campaigning to stop Australia from hiring people to shoot feral cats, foxes and rabbits due to the massive amount of damage they do to the local wildlife and many feral cat supporters refuse to believe that feral cats are directly respoible for putting so many species on the extinct list

I'm tempted to look at their website for a good laugh

so true!

i remember when that dast twat "Pink" went on her crusade to stop Australia from docking sheep, which we now do with tight rubber rings, we clip the ring on a lamb's tail, in a couple weeks the tail falls off due to total loss of blood flow.

Of course a cunt like Pink has never seen or smelled a fly-blown sheep, who's flesh is rotting while it's alive and seen maggots festering IN the sheep's flesh.
Removing the tail does no harm to the sheep, and prevents them from getting fly-blown, which saves them from months or even years of horrible agony as maggots eat them from the inside out.

Peta is so "High and mighty" that they're even worse than Greenpeace in that regard.
Don't get me wrong, Fuck Russia's oil drilling and fuck Japan's killing of wales, and fuck excessive unsustainable foresting, but for example in the incident with Greenpeace members being arrested in Russia... they boarded the ship without permission with the expressed purpose of causing harm to the vessel and prevent it from carrying out it's duty, that is by the legal definition... Piracy.

I am so sick of these city-living university students who have never experienced nature themselves beyond a day-trip to a pretty tourist site, telling us who have experienced the harsh realities of living on the land, what to do and what we can't do!

We don't like noticing that a lamb has grown too big to put the ring on, so we have to hold it down while we cut it off with a red-hot blade, but we know that by doing it, we are saving that lamb from a life of horrible agony at the hands of flies, their eggs and maggots.

Hell last month I went hunting with my dad, shot a fox right between the eyes (his eyes FLEW out, it was hilarious) and you know what? by killing that fox i saved many chickens, sheep and others, by killing one i save dozens, and that is something PETA does not understand.

Offline Oniya

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Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #61 on: December 05, 2013, 09:28:55 AM »
Please remember that this board is for debate and discussion.  Points can be made without resorting to this level of venom.

Offline Light Ice

Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #62 on: December 10, 2013, 05:34:17 PM »
PETA, in the past, has done a nice job with investigations that otherwise wouldn't be taken up by law enforcement.  I'll give them that.

Really, though, that's about where it ends.  Awareness is important, even today, but the general attitude and approach makes it more difficult for legitimate animal rescue organizations to do what they do.  They've created a stigma around the movement that doesn't exactly make the effort seem easy to sympathize with. 

Which is damaging, really, because in the end it is sympathy that sustains many shelters and rescues.

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Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #63 on: December 14, 2013, 01:41:31 AM »
My wife, the gentle animal-loving soul that she is, got swept up by the heartstring-tugging (or stomach churning, whatever) advertising of PETA and supported them for a time as a young teen.  She even became a vegan.

Of course, when she actually went to live with a PETA couple and their 30+ dogs and 90+ cats to help care for the animals, she found out the truth.  The couple were about as maladjusted and sick in the head as you'd expect people to be that had 90+ cats living in a single-wide trailer in the middle of the California desert.  The amount of urine, feces, and vomit in the home was appalling, and while my wife spent an entire weekend cleaning the home once, it was dirty again even before she'd finished.  The couple sat in the living room on recliners crusted with the cat's filth.  The place made her so ill, she basically barricaded herself in her own clean bedroom with her microwave and mini-fridge, until she finally couldn't stand it anymore, and moved back to her mother's house.

Oh, and I convinced her to go back to meat again when I tempted her with a fried chicken leg.  I'm bad  >:)  Hey, humans are animals, too, and omnivores at that.  There's a reason I have canines. 

I don't look at humanity as above, better than, or separate from nature.  I see us ruining nature as a species in too many ways, but nature has a way of balancing things in the long run, and the Earth's biosphere will outlive us regardless of our decisions.  It is just sad to see rampant destruction of so many species due to humanity's poor choices in Earth husbandry.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 11:01:16 AM by HannibalBarca »

Offline Lux12

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Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #64 on: December 14, 2013, 02:48:24 AM »
So I'm an animal lover, as are most of my friends. As a result it's not uncommon for me to see animal rights stuff in my feed on facebook. A good few of my friends are also involved in animal adoption, two of which directly work for local shelters, not just volunteer. I adopted my dog through a network of people who use facebook to find homes for dogs in need. I love animals, I don't think they should ever be harmed, but I still eat meat.


This is everything I had hoped was true about them. I was honestly holding out hope that this was not the case, but unfortunately the evidence before me reveals a rather sad truth.

It doesn't make sense to save even otherwise healthy animals from situations where they might die if left there for an extensive period of time just to kill them? How is it saving or protecting animals when they're killing more than many standard shelters probably do? The taking of life is an extreme act that should not be undergone lightly no matter who is doing it. I abhor killing in general, but if one is going to do so for any reason at all, they should not do it casually, without thought, or for any petty reasons. Despite their claims it sounds as if PETA is running a sort of animal concentration camp. If a dog loves its family and canines have frequently befriended humans throughout history and people even think of them as part of their family, how is it evil to re-home them? How is one a friend to animals if they rescue them just to kill them?

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Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #65 on: December 14, 2013, 11:04:21 AM »
It takes effort to find pets homes.  PETA would rather concentrate their efforts on raising outrage and stirring up shit rather than do the hard drudgery of actually making a difference in real animals' lives.  The height of hypocrisy.

Offline consortium11

Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #66 on: December 14, 2013, 07:20:21 PM »
It takes effort to find pets homes.  PETA would rather concentrate their efforts on raising outrage and stirring up shit rather than do the hard drudgery of actually making a difference in real animals' lives.  The height of hypocrisy.

Isn't it also the fact that the higher ups in PETA are pretty fundamentalist in their animal liberty beliefs and as such view pets as a form of slavery and thus something to be opposed.

A sort of "better to die on their feet rather than live on their knees" style mentality.

Offline Lux12

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Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #67 on: December 14, 2013, 08:24:34 PM »
Isn't it also the fact that the higher ups in PETA are pretty fundamentalist in their animal liberty beliefs and as such view pets as a form of slavery and thus something to be opposed.

A sort of "better to die on their feet rather than live on their knees" style mentality.

I would admire the "die on your feet" attitude in them if how they were applying it made any sense.

Offline chaoslord29

Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #68 on: December 23, 2013, 03:26:23 PM »
It's interesting for me as a long-time lefty to find myself opposed to PETA and similar organizations on every count. I certainly don't hate animals (I have two very well pampered cats at home as I type), but morally, I can't rectify the implications of trying to coddle and provide for animals ahead of human beings. Because that's really what it comes down to for me. Their is something grossly wrong to me with devoting the amount of money, time, and passion in attempts to feed and house stray cats and dogs when their are people suffering just as much if not more, across the globe.

At the end of the day, I have to count myself a speciest, barring the discovering of sentient alien life or any of the higher primates (or dolphins, pigs, or octupi) developing calculus.

Offline Lux12

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Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #69 on: December 24, 2013, 01:36:27 PM »
It's interesting for me as a long-time lefty to find myself opposed to PETA and similar organizations on every count. I certainly don't hate animals (I have two very well pampered cats at home as I type), but morally, I can't rectify the implications of trying to coddle and provide for animals ahead of human beings. Because that's really what it comes down to for me. Their is something grossly wrong to me with devoting the amount of money, time, and passion in attempts to feed and house stray cats and dogs when their are people suffering just as much if not more, across the globe.

At the end of the day, I have to count myself a speciest, barring the discovering of sentient alien life or any of the higher primates (or dolphins, pigs, or octupi) developing calculus.
I'm of the polar opposite mind set. I value the lives of animals more in a sense. They do not do the wicked things that humans do. Humans have actually gone out of their way to do things that screw things up for everyone. You can point out how the animal kingdom can be brutal, but it is not the same. They do not kill for malice. They are not wanton in what they do. They merely do what they must and follow their nature, fulfill their niches.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #70 on: December 24, 2013, 02:16:00 PM »
I'm of the polar opposite mind set. I value the lives of animals more in a sense. They do not do the wicked things that humans do. Humans have actually gone out of their way to do things that screw things up for everyone. You can point out how the animal kingdom can be brutal, but it is not the same. They do not kill for malice. They are not wanton in what they do. They merely do what they must and follow their nature, fulfill their niches.

Counterpoint: Dolphins. ;D

Offline chaoslord29

Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #71 on: December 24, 2013, 04:29:25 PM »
I'm of the polar opposite mind set. I value the lives of animals more in a sense. They do not do the wicked things that humans do. Humans have actually gone out of their way to do things that screw things up for everyone. You can point out how the animal kingdom can be brutal, but it is not the same. They do not kill for malice. They are not wanton in what they do. They merely do what they must and follow their nature, fulfill their niches.
Ah, see but you're positing some sort of agency that exists in humans that allows human beings to defy their "nature". I disagree, humans are ruled by their nature every bit as much as animals, it just happens that human nature allows for certain complexities, chief amongst them conscious thought, which allows us to assign things like 'malice' or 'evil' to what are otherwise exactly the same things animals do regularly.

Predatory animals hunt and kill in order to survive and humans do so for exactly the same reason: they just are able to create more elaborate chains of reasoning to justify why killing in a given scenario is necessary for 'survival'. Herbivores an less predatory animals exercise exactly the same capacities for greed and gluttony (and lasciviousness), it's just that they have less opportunities to exercise them without agriculture and sophisticated technologies. When they do have access to these resources (like say when humans make them available) they will gorge and feed themselves in reckless abandon, eating things that are otherwise unhealthy for them, and grow lazy and reliant on man-made food sources.

The simple fact is that 'malice' is an inherent, elemental force in the subsistence of life. In order to acquire resources to secure your survival you must deprive some other living thing of those resources, whether you're a microbe, a plant, a dolphin, a gazelle, or a higher primate. It is the nature of all things to kill other things in order to survive.

Offline ladia2287

Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #72 on: December 25, 2013, 02:23:19 AM »
Remember what the rabbits did to Australia.  *nods*  I don't feel guilty at all for that massage mitt.

Funnily enough throughout Australian history, every time a 'pest' becomes a real problem the powers that be get it into their heads that introducing a foreign animal into the Australian wilderness will solve said problem. All the while the introduced species are decimating a very unique ecology and growing to plague proportions in the process. Rabbits and cane toads are perfect examples of this and now it's gotten to the point where Australia's Border Protection agencies have to implement some of the strictest controls in the world so that we don't accidentally do it again.

Offline chaoslord29

Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #73 on: December 26, 2013, 10:32:38 AM »
For the record, higher primates (especially chimps and orangs) kill each other at a similar rate for what you see in similar sized populations of humans. They target smaller, weaker members of the community, especially 'loners', as well as killing over mates and food. They also band together when going up against rival chimps for land, setting ambushes and engaging in what very much resembles 'guerrilla' warfare (not strictly a pun I guess cause we're talking about chimps).

Again, whether you call any of this 'murder' or 'war' depends on philosophy, and whether you impart to animals a capacity for moral reasoning comparable to our own. If you make it simply about the cold hard facts for the situation though, it would seem to suggest that higher primates are every bit as capable of murder as we are.

Offline Oniya

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Re: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate
« Reply #74 on: December 26, 2013, 11:10:27 AM »
Actually, 'guerrilla' means 'skirmisher' (lit. 'little war').