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Author Topic: Submission, Copdependence and Relationships  (Read 3684 times)

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Offline JuliettaRossiTopic starter

Submission, Copdependence and Relationships
« on: June 08, 2013, 05:54:48 PM »
For the past few months, life hasn't been so grand. No, not complaining. I'm trying to figure my life out, figure out the conflicts in my head, in my relationships, keep a job and many other things all at once. To top it all off, I did not so much come to the realization that I'm codependent, but was essentially told what my issue was by someone else. Some of you may say 'So what! Why do you care what someone else says?!' Ah, but that is just it. I am codependent. After looking at the 'symptoms' I am...I'm not denying it. It was just the harsh little blow of someone who I didn't think knew me very well, hitting the nail on the head so to speak. How did I not know this about myself? How did I, after XX years, living in my own skin, not know that I had this problem, this disease, this addiction?

I think I was a bit shell shocked to finally understand this. It all came after my relationship with my fiancee practically imploded after almost 8 years...

We had a good relationship up until around April, but it was March when we delved into the real life world of BDSM and D/s relationships a bit further. I have to keep this PG, so no intimate details of course (not that I was going to share that with you anyway - read my other writing for that ;p ).  We started going to the local BDSM dungeon, met people, went out for coffee, started making friends  in the 'community.' We had both always been kinky. We were finally thinking of exploring it a bit further, letting a little more out - to ourselves and maybe...maybe a play partner. This was what was discussed.

Now, my fiancee is my Dom. Has been for many years now. It's always worked, our relationship has always been a good, happy one. The thought of having even more fun with a third person or maybe more - well, it's a thought many people out there had. We'd each had three in bed once before, but there was never more than that and never with the two of us combined. Well, it happened at one of our coffee outings. We met another woman. We liked her on the surface - we didn't know much about her and it seemed she was in a relationship already, so we assumed she was off limits until said guy went away (he was leaving the state in a few months). Fine...we were patient. There happened to be no waiting though, things started up between us and she essentially dumped her little slave boi who she treated badly anyway.

Warning...warning...Yeah...I noticed the red flashing alarm lights, but apparently no one else did, but I didn't say anything. It's part of being codependent. You have all these thoughts, but you don't say them. You keep them bottled inside - you might hurt someone with what you say, what you do or how you react, so you look for ways and reasons to just stay quiet, or judge from how others are acting on how you should act and react.

Things progressed quickly between the three of us - from an immediate friendship to my Dom sending pictures of me to her while I couldn't do anything to stop him. He'd taken pictures before of me (yes, those kinds of pictures) and it bothered me (because of my own body issues), but not like it bothered me when he sent them to her.  I was a submissive though. He knew better than me, right? He wouldn't hurt me, right? It progressed to audio while during a heavy session of edge play, flogging and sex.

Within about a week I'd say, she had more than moved on from her ex/boi who was left feeling odd around the rest of us (and us feeling the same) - and her feeding us and the community all kinds of crap about their relationship (which I would later find out was untrue). Ah, warning number two...If she talks about him...she'll talk about you when her time is done, right? Yep...Ignored once again. The two people who were in bed with me were all smiles, happy talk and telling me this was what was right (especially was a constant stream of 'I'm your missing puzzle piece' or 'I'm what you need to complete your relationship). Well, the submissive me was in high gear. Especially after repeated trips to the local dungeon every weekend. I was getting more and more comfortable with my fiancee and I doing things in front of others. I have horrible body issues and no matter what anyone says, it's what I see and what I think in my head that stops me from doing a lot of things in life. It's the core of codependency. When paired with the thoughts that I as a submissive have, oh, what a bad combination....

In my writing on E, I've almost always played submissive characters. There have only been two times I didn't. The first time was fine. I was in the midst of that second time during this three-way relationship. The RP crashed and burned because I couldn't think outside of that little itty-bitty submissive box I'd stuffed myself into during this relationship. In the outside world I was learning about the poly world. I'd had friends who did the poly thing for years. Most with very limited success. This thought did not elude me. I wasn't comfortable with this new woman. When they started talking about telling people on the outside - friends, family, our next door neighbors, those loud alarm bells were going off again. I actually said 'I'm not comfortable with this.' And I was ignored. My fiancee said 'I need to talk to someone about what's going on - I need to tell people.' I didn't quite understand this mentality. I spent my entire life in my head. Who do you need to tell outside of our 'community' and why? Why do the vanilla neighbors need to find out about what is going on in our bedroom?? Why do your friends? To me it was akin to bragging. Each time one of them opened their mouths to tell someone 'oh, yeah, I've got a fiancee...and a girlfriend as well' or her saying 'oh, yeah, he's my boyfriend...and she's my girlfriend' it bothered me. I wasn't comfortable. No one cared though. To me I was simply becoming a buzzkill and who wants to be that, right? So, I shut up, I let it happen.

With in two weeks of a 'relationship' between the three of us, I was really starting to see the crazy in her. Now...Here is where I can equate relationships to figuring out who you want to write with on E...When I first started on E, I got my acceptance and free reign on the boards. I posted my request thread and BOOM! A ton of guys (and women) flooding my inbox with requests. I was flattered. I was excited. Something new, bright and shiny and people wanted to write with me. Within days I had a ton of threads going. All but one died out immediately. (That one...still going strong and enjoyable!) I hadn't vetted anyone. I didn't know how - had never done it before. I went through a few weeks, a few months on here, trying to figure out what to look for in a partner to write with. I SHOULD have done the same thing with this relationship. Held her at arms distance and been a friend more than anything else before letting her into our lives and our bed, do you say 'no' to two people who are laughing and smiling and saying this is what's right? How do you tell your Dom 'no' when all you keep hearing from her is 'isn't it cute when she says know she means yes.' Warning...warning lights galore...

Within two weeks, this woman, who had a five year old that we were essentially instant parents to...was talking about us moving in together, looking at houses for rent, going to her kid's baseball games and karate matches, vacationing together, how her role in our WEDDING would go! Even down to including herself in the wedding itself (though she didn't want to get married again she said...she certainly was talking a lot about it...) I'd seen this kind of crazy before...I'm a woman. No, I hadn't done things like this, but...I'd seen it. Before I could gain the strength to say anything, do anything from my submissive, codependent little core, things kinda imploded.

I had fallen asleep. I wasn't feeling well. I was in a dark room, in bed with a migraine. The last thing I remembered was talking to my fiancee and him saying he was on his way home. Next thing I knew, this woman was in my bedroom and she was telling me 'I love you.' Remember kids, this was after TWO WHOLE WEEKS. Ladies, take note...most people don't want to hear those words after just a few dates, after just a few weeks. Keep your crazy in check and they'll stick around longer...Advice from one woman to another. Well, all I was trying to do was get dressed and figure out where my fiancee was. Was he in an accident? Why wasn't he home? Was he okay? The only thing I said to her - quite groggily, was 'No....No.' and went out to the main part of the apartment to find my fiancee, her kid and their over night stuff!! My guy was making dinner, her kid was on the couch along with their overnight bags - which neither one had ever stayed over night before. I was confused, tired, still had a migraine. She was pissed she didn't get the response she wanted and went and sat on the couch. Needless to say, dinner was quiet and stressful with her kid whining up a freaking storm. She essentially jerked him out of the chair, grabbed their stuff and left.

He and I talked after she left. I tried explaining that she was off her rocker, that I don't feel that way about her. That I didn't want this poly relationship they were both so keen on.  He said I told him, told them, it was okay, that this was what I wanted. At some point during the relationship, I'd woken up only to find they had changed not only their status on FetLife, but he had changed mine as well to include her. I didn't get to make a choice in many of these things, but I was also too scared to speak up. I say scared, but I wouldn't have been physically hurt by either one of them (her maybe, but I have a bit of height on her and can hold my own with her I think had things gotten to that point). I wasn't scared of physical harm. I was scared of displeasing my Dom. As a sub, I am always afraid of this. Submissives want nothing more than to please their partner, their Dom, and usually, others around them as well. Codependents do the same damn thing. We please until it hurts.  We please people until they become accustomed to it, expect it. There is no more graciousness in their acceptance of what we may or may not do. It is now expected. Then it sometimes becomes a resentment. No more 'thank you's' or kind words or looks. No. It's just expected of us. A job instead of something nice we are doing. A job without benefits, without a healthy place to work.

It took a lot of conversation, a LOT of crying, and him telling me he was 'in LOVE' with both of us. To me that didn't compute. Are you telling me you equate her with me? You equate a relationship of two weeks with one of almost 8 YEARS?! I asked him point blank if it was because of her kid - was he in love with the thought of an instant family (since he can't have kids anymore - something I knew, something I stayed with him despite of from the beginning).  He denied that. She came back over the following day and he let her in.  He let her in and he sat on the other couch and watched her confront, belittle, yell, and touch me despite my not wanting to be touched. Despite my not wanting her there. My Dom was no longer protecting me. He sat idly by and let her essentially abuse me because she didn't get her way. All of a sudden I was a liar, I used people, I was horrible and uncaring. This went on for at least a half hour. I honestly don't know how long it was until I finally broke down so bad, sobbing that she grinned and walked out. She got her revenge. She left me broken and him with all this swirling in his head.

I didn't know it at the time but my fiancee was still talking to her, still going over and seeing her. He knew what I considered cheating, but because 'he had feelings for her' it was apparently alright for him to continue sleeping with her. He's part of a 12-step group - has been for almost 8 years now. His sponsor was the one, after he spoke with him, to point out that I was codependent. I had my own addiction, my own disease. He, as an addict, couldn't be angry with another addict for having a disease of addiction. I had heard of codependency, never understood it before then though. I didn't know it was me. Now that I was broken though, he needed space, time to process everything that happened. He walked out on me after all of this...He lied saying he was going to stay at his grandmother's house. He, instead, ran to her. She was now 'the other woman.'

I'd dealt with cheating boyfriends before. He knew my past. I say dealt with like I actually did anything but stay with them and let it slide. I was afraid of not being needed. I was afraid of letting them down somehow if I left. I couldn't be the one to leave. It was a sickness I didn't even know I had. Addicted to love, addicted to the people I was in relationships with. Willing to put up with mental and emotional abuse for the sake of being 'us' still. Doing anything, everything I could think of to make them happy. Cooking, cleaning, deferring to them with every question or request. 'Whatever you'd like.' is a normal phrase. Why not 'this is what I want?' Because...he may not like what I want. If he doesn't like it he will either say no, or will start to dislike me because I don't want the same things. Our minds are pretty screwed up.

The same goes or submissives. This is why we have safe words though, right? When things get so painful, so hard that we simply can't take it any longer, then we safe-word. There's no safe-word for life though. You can't just say 'Purple' and have everything around you stop. When the Dominant makes all the decisions - financial, planning, household, down to what you eat and watch on tv, and you are used to doesn't look so bad, and honestly, it wasn't. We enjoyed many of the same things. He had his hobbies and I had mine (though many of mine took a back seat or were ridiculed when I now stop to look back at it. Money was spent on his hobby, but not on mine, because well...mine wasn't worthwhile...or at least my messed up head told me so). We liked many of the same tv shows, the same foods, going to the same places. We had fun, before HER. We had a great life, before HER.

Now we're in the aftermath. There's tension and no talking, and tiptoeing around. There's angry words from him and me taking them. There's angry, hateful sex and me...taking it. All the while, trying not to trigger him into a bad mood. It was never like this. Before HER.

He came back after a week away from me. Said he came to a realization and that he wanted me and not her. That he loved me. We still had a lot to work on, a lot to talk about, but he came back to me. That submissive, codependent side cheered. During that week I'd started reading as much as I could about codependency. I'd started eating again and better food. I'd started taking care of myself and not just him. Then he came back. Slowly, all those good things I was doing for myself stopped. I returned to living in my shell and listening to the angry words, the spiteful things he would say. We talked at first, but no longer. He admitted he kept sleeping with her. He admitted that he realized that the one question I'd asked of him - was he in love with the thought of an instant family - that was why he was having an issue with this. He missed his kids and all of a sudden not only did he have two women who wanted to sleep with him, but he also had *poof* a child. Everything was happy and easy and going so well until I made the train crash and burn. He also admitted that she showed just how crazy she was. He wouldn't explain  what that meant. I'd tried to tell him she was crazy and now he finally understood. He was happy when he first came back, but I needed time now - to process the realization that what I'd worried about - that he ran to her - was true. He cheated. His response to that was 'I told you I had feelings for her still' as if that made everything better. What separates adults from children is your instinct to act on your feelings. A five year old wants candy - they bargain, whine, cry, throw a tantrum until you, the adult give in.  They have no impulse control. They do what they want when they want because they haven't learned impulse control. They haven't learned to control their feelings yet. As an adult, you have this capability. You use it everyday. You may want to NOT stop for red lights, but you do it anyway. You understand the consequences. You may want to eat everything at the buffet, but you know the consequences. A little of this, a little of that, until you are full. Babies and puppies will eat until they are sick. They don't know any better. Adults know better. For the first time I didn't accept his answer to me. I slept on the couch while he slept in our bed. I made him shower before he touched me or kissed me. I abhorred the idea that she might still be on his body in some way. I now hated this woman who claimed to be my friend, to 'love' me. She had given him an ultimatum. It was her or me. She didn't want to be stuck in the middle when she couldn't get her way.  I came to find out she had just done this to another couple only a few months before us.

Now, the BDSM community is relatively small here. I say small but there are hundreds if not thousands of people here in it, but our little community - the people that we see regularly at the dungeon, at coffee - we had become friends. Now...Could we show up? Would SHE be there? What would happen? Her ex/boi was still there. He still didn't realize what she had been saying about him and I wanted to tell him, but I didn't. I let him go on thinking that she was still his 'friend' through all of this. I wanted to go back to coffee with my Dom and ignore the little bitch if she showed up. Apparently all he could see happening was a catfight. He kept saying I was not to 'cause a scene.' I'm a pretty laid back, easy-going person I think. On the outside. I'm an introvert - keep all my thoughts inside my head as well as my actions. I have pretty good impulse control.

I started going to Codependency Anonymous meetings (CODA) here in town. I found a good group and the first night I was there, the chairperson said something that resonated with me about forgiveness. It was like something clicked in my head. I could forgive him. I could feel better in doing this. Not forget it, but forgive him. There was a difference. In my head before that meeting, there was no difference. Now I understood a little better. That night our relationship healed a little. I've kept going to meetings - in person and online. He however, seemed to stagnate, get angrier, there were more and more hateful spiteful words to come during the following month where I tried to work on myself, deal with work problems, and keep things going at home.

His relationship with my mother is now gone after what happened. She doesn't know about HER. She hopefully never will. My family has no business knowing what goes on in our bedroom. This however, has added another facet of stress and problems to our relationship. Their relationship was better than that of my mother and myself. I'm now realizing that the bulk of my codependency has stemmed directly from my bad relationship with my mother. I don't know how to deal with it though. I don't want to cut her out of my life but I don't know how to tell her I need space from her. Not just distance, but the phone. She needs to stop calling constantly, texting, messaging me on Facebook. I need time to work on my relationship with my fiancee - get our lives back on track before I can deal with her. I don't know how to speak to her and let her down nice. I acquiesce to everything she wants, even though she is the main cause of my problems growing up. Mothers are like that in therapy - the main root of problems it seems. Smothering, overwhelming, degrading, judgmental, obstinate, guilting you, shaming you. Yes, I can check all these and more off that psychological inventory. Absent father, bad relationship models, angry words, emotional abuse, yes, yes and more yeses. All of a sudden I'm told that 'I've grown during the time of our relationship - and you haven't...perhaps we've simply grown apart because you don't work on yourself and I have.' Well, this is because I was too busy trying to be there for you - through custody battles, legal battles and problems, watching my credit go down the drain because I couldn't say 'no' to anything you wanted or 'needed.' You as an addict, used me until you thought you were in a better place and now you're ready to leave me in your wake. You've taken everything you wanted and can simply move on. Apparently I was supposed to be bettering myself along with him. He has resentments because he didn't tell me he wanted me to be at certain things, so I wasn't there and I can't turn back the clock to please him in those instances. If becoming someone who spews hateful words, who can beat me as hard as possible while it BDSM and be okay with it, is called growing and bettering yourself, you can keep it. His sponsor says he has plenty of work to do on himself. 

Over the past three days now, things had evened out - he has started acting like he used to be before HER. When it was still US. He noticed the other day that I've gone back to cutting. When he noticed he made a snide remark before I had to leave for work. Once again I was back in my shell. I answered his question and left. He surprised me later by picking me up at work and later talking with me about it at home. Once again he brought up maybe this just wasn't working - maybe we were done. In the same breath he said he'd be willing to go to counseling. We talked about what had been going on over the past month since everything imploded. I told him he'd been the worst to me he'd been in almost 8 years - spiteful, mean, uncaring and yes, I'd gone back to cutting. It was the only way for me to release the pain. To watch the blood drift my my skin, become one with the water as I lay in the bathtub, line after line blossoming on my skin in a beautiful red. Let my pain go just like that blood mingled with the water. Each time I thought about him, each time he said something to me I could hit that spot - remind myself of the pain he'd caused me. Don't listen to that nice phrase, those cute words. In five minutes he could be a totally different person. Build the shell around myself again so I couldn't be hurt. Build up that wall and don't let him see the cracks.

The forms have been filled out for counseling. Hopefully we'll get accepted (it's a special program to deal with all of this) and get help to move us past this. I'm pretty much ready and willing to get past it, but he's having hang ups and apparently needs to talk them out with someone. He says he wants us to work out, but he isn't willing to make promises (and I've not asked for any). We haven't returned to coffee or the dungeon - we're giving ourselves time with that.

Being submissive is hard enough without dealing with codependency. The questions of 'Isn't this what being submissive is?' is a really hard one. It's hard to differentiate between the two. They are so very similar. I've only shared once at my group meeting and had to choose my words very carefully because I don't feel safe and I still feel very much like an 'outsider' because of the way all this came about - the sexual aspect of it. It's why I feel safer here sharing on a blog on E among people who understand a bit better about BDSM and D/s and poly relationships (or at least have a more open mind to those things). I look like a 'good girl' and very much a young girl despite my age. I get treated like a child more often than not because of how I look. It would surprise the hell out of the group if I shared about all this, but I'll get there eventually I hope. I need someone to talk to there, someone who understands both codependency and submission - and I don't think there is anyone there who does. It's all very....vanilla lol. (No, nothing wrong with it, but therapy wise...hard to bridge the gap.)

Offline Cycle

Re: Submission, Copdependence and Relationships
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2013, 08:17:38 AM »
I'm not going to claim that I am a specialist in codependency or submission but I do know what a healthy relationship looks like.

Think of a balance.  A scale.  Two plates on two sides.  What you put into a relationship is like a weight.  The same is true of what the other person puts in.  What you bring to the relationship does not need to be the same thing.  It can--and almost always is--different.  But the amount, the intensity, the essence, the dedication, the truth must balance.  Or the relationship is not healthy.

In a D/s situation, a submissive throws a tremendous amount of herself/himself onto that scale:  thinking about, care for, listening to, obeying, desiring, following every word action thought breath of the Dom.  That tips the scales in one direction.  A lot.  A Dom better care a tremendous amount about the happiness, well being, needs, health, and happiness of the sub to balance that out.  And imho, a good Dom does.  A good Dom doesn't approach the relationship from the perspective of "what do I get out of it."  Rather, he/she approaches it from the perspective of "what does my sub need from this."  The Dom should be focused on making the sub happy.  Addressing her/his needs.  Protecting him/her.  Loving her/him.  Not just on getting physical pleasures every night or getting to have his/her way all the time.  No.  Absolutely freaking not.

The sub focuses 1,000% of her/his energy attention affection on the Dom.  The Dom, if he/she focuses anything less than that, will throw the scale off balance.

Not healthy.

There are, of course, of reasons why a D/s relationship may not work out.  But in your case, Julietta, based on what I have read, it seems that you are (were?) focused more on your Dom's needs and happiness than he was on yours.  If that doesn't change?  For real?  I think you know would I am going to say, so I won't say it for now. 

This change doesn't--and it can't--come just from you.  He needs to change.  He must.  Get to that or some other form of counseling.  I really hope it helps.  I really, really do.

Online Oniya

Re: Submission, Copdependence and Relationships
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2013, 09:55:33 AM »
I used to spend a lot of time on the polyamory groups on LiveJournal.  I also have a lot of friends in the kink lifestyle.  There are therapists out there who understand the healthy D/s (and poly) dynamics, rather than thinking that either is aberrant.  You want to look for 'kink-friendly' or 'kink-aware' therapists.

Offline JuliettaRossiTopic starter

Re: Submission, Copdependence and Relationships
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2013, 12:34:38 AM »
So...therapy hasn't happened. I'm still going to my CODA group one evening a week. I should be 'attending' the online ones as well, but I haven't lately because of being so busy.

The past week has been filled with stress. I had my first wedding reception to cater desserts for. Not just a cake, but 3 cakes, 75 French macarons and 75 cake pops. For the later two I was fine...the cakes, however, I was a bit over my head with those, but the brides (yes, brides :) loved everything. I spent every waking hour prepping, coloring, rolling fondant, baking, dipping and piping over the past week that I didn't spend working. It at least got my mind off things while I baked. When everything was delivered and set up, the only thing he had to say was 'Cakes are certainly not your strong point. You need to stick to something else.' This by the way...was my first time doing a cake - let alone 3, and my first time working with fondant. Yes, I knew by Friday I had bit off a bit too much. It was a little late then though. And honestly - two of the three looked great - just as they wanted them. It was the fondant cake that gave me issues with humidity and a crumbling cake layer not helping matters. It was just a little disappointing to not get any kind of positive encouragement, no words of 'wow, I can't believe you did all this in under a week' or 'You did a really good job for your first time doing this.' I got more positive response out of people liking the pictures on facebook than I got out of him.

My fiancee surprised me in the middle of this busy week though to ask if I wanted to go to a little gathering of kinky people at a Starbucks. We went, had a great time and someone brought up my idea of body frosting I tossed about about a week or so earlier - wanting to know when she could become my icing bunny. Who am I to turn a pretty girl down?! I agreed and Friday (the SAME DAY as the wedding reception), I was to ice my little bunny in the dungeon for her guy and all to see...and taste. So, not only was I stressed about the reception, I was also stressed about my little 'debut' of sorts later that evening. Everything went fine though and extra macarons were brought with even. They all loved watching me pipe her with little buttercream ribbons and flowers and listening to her giggle as some of it would melt off of her (she is quite the hot little demo bunny). Tasty fun was had by all.

After that though, was my fiancee's 'debut' - a needle necklace on a willing participant. I helped him with design and assisted him in getting everything done as he pierced and strung her necklace. I didn't have a 'problem' with her until everything began I guess. I tried to stamp down the feelings of jealousy - and I did so quite well I think. She's very touchy-feely and everything was still a bit...too fresh I think. This was our first foray back to the dungeon since everything happened and we did choose a 'safe' night - knowing the 'Domme' who fucked with our heads and our relationship would probably not be there. The necklace - this being the first time he really even played with needles on anyone other than himself - was his first. Everyone loved it and she chose to keep it in until today (only cutting it out because the centerpiece was a bit heavy and became bothersome) - she's a nurse, so we had more faith in her being able to keep her wound area clean and such, the concern for things going wrong was lessened enough for us to let her keep it in past us leaving the dungeon. In other words...any one else (as in not having medical training), the necklace would have been cut out before we left and any wounds attended to.

Well, we stayed until close. Then it was off to breakfast with everyone who closed the place down - about 20 or so of us. From the time the necklace was about 1/4 of the way done, I felt a...shift. I know it's energy play. It was, however, the first time we had a 'scene' with anyone other than each other (outside of the horrible little scene mentioned in my first blog post). I live very much in my head and during scenes, things are generally pretty quiet - and this was no exception. She'd nuzzle him and smile all cute. I'd noticed the very...God, how do I say this without coming off obnoxious or paranoid? There was touching and hugging and such even before the necklace began. It only increased during the scene and I felt more and more like I was becoming invisible, even though I was the one handing him the beads, handing him the alcohol wipes and the gauze pads.

After everything was done, I was essentially forgotten about - they were off to show off the necklace to everyone still there. He waited for her outside the main entrance when we left while I stood out at the car. At breakfast they sat across from one another and talked like a couple on a date for an hour and half while I was ignored next to him. Ironically it was her that realized I was quiet (even among such a large group). She asked if I was okay and of course, I lied. I said yes, I was fine. Just a little tired. They went back to their talking, but now he noticed too - as if for the first time in over an hour that I was still sitting next to him. People were starting to leave but he wouldn't say 'let's go' and she wouldn't leave on her own so we were the last ones to leave along with another couple guys. Even after saying I needed to get off my feet (I was in high heeled boots for hours and before that had been on my feet baking all day), he still wouldn't say good night and we ended up standing outside for probably another 20 minutes. They continued to talk like they were a brand new couple - long looks into each other's eyes and little grins. She gave him her number and they've been texting. Almost every photo she puts up on Fet gets an automatic 'love it' from him. She apparently told him to let me know that she has no interest in 'taking what isn't hers.' Perhaps I'm a bit jaded right now. I don't trust anyone yet. I especially don't trust women. I just...I feel like once the scene is over, it's over. It's done. Am I wired wrong? That I can compartmentalize this? That I can have expect there to be no feelings once the scene is over? Should I expect every little subby girl who wants a needle necklace from him to get all touchy-feely and suddenly look like a lost puppy who has found a warm bed? What about once it progresses to him wanting to use heavier toys on them? Toys I can't handle? He asked me once if I would have an issue with him scene-ing with anyone else. I told him honestly 'I don't know - we've never scened with anyone else.' Then he asked 'What about when you scene with someone else?' My response was 'I never thought about scene-ing with anyone else...why would I?' I don't know if my reaction would have been different had what happened with HER, never happened. I don't know because this is the path our lives have taken because of this.

He asked me the next day what happened at breakfast...I told him. I felt ignored. He got quiet. He didn't say anything for a moment, then responded with 'you weren't being ignored' and changed the subject. We haven't talked about it since. I know part of it is the problem of codependency. Part of it is trust issues. Part of it is fading into the background when I'm in a large group. I don't feel I have anything to add, nothing to contribute. I sit back and watch, listen and stay in my head. I haven't learned how to break that cycle. It took many years to get here and I'm sure it will take more than a month or two to get out of this mode of thinking. The other part - having a partner who doesn't know how to deal with these issues. I think the prospect of having a partner who is fucked in the head (essentially), has thrown him for a loop. He thought he had me figured out - and he did, for the most part, but now I feel like he's questioning everything and keeping me at arm's distance still.

I think tomorrow I'll be sending in my paperwork for counseling. I know I need it. I'll figure out a way to get across town without him. I want help with all this. I go to my meetings and I ache to actually speak to someone - tell them what's going on in my life, but I can't. I can't get the words out. It is so much easier to just type it all. I can't imagine anyone in my CODA group having anything other than the most vanilla of vanilla lives, so I don't know that I could ever start from the beginning with any of them. There is only one woman available to sponsor anyone and she's uber goody-two-shoes vanilla. She may have a heart attack if I told her everything that has gone on...and I don't trust her enough to even tell her. CODA is not as large as some of the other 12-Step groups either, so at any one meeting there are never more than 10 people. The dungeon we go to has a power exchange group for the younger crowd - one that SHE can't come to because of her age, so I'm going to try to attend more of those meetings - maybe find someone who is kink-oriented to talk to about everything, even if they aren't familiar with codependency. I know I need to talk to someone.

Offline Saskia

Re: Submission, Copdependence and Relationships
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2013, 12:44:57 AM »
I read through all your posts and the replies. I so wish I had the magic words you (probably) want to hear to make this all better.
I'm not going to write to you as a forum member, a rp, a dom, a sub, or a thousand other options. I am going to write to you as another female who's felt exactly like you.

I know how horrible it is to be stuck, feeling like you can't change anything no matter how hard you try, but wanting everything to change, yet at the same time wanting to go back to the way it was "before". All the while feeling desperate and...well, a whole bunch of stuff that just seems to defy words.

I don't know you, and you don't know me. But I know from reading your words that you are feeling a whole lot of pain that shouldn't belong to you.

Co-dependency is rooted in our need to be wanted and loved. In it's most basic form co-dependency is wanting someone to see us, to accept us, to love us, to keep us. I'm sure there's alot of professionals out there that wouldn't agree with that but if they left behind the text book version and got in touch with their authentic self, they'd agree.  Co-dependency is just the term professionals use to describe this. (I know because I've been one of those professionals).
Where we end up getting mixed up, and being co-dependent, is what we're willing to do to get that love and acceptance. When we start to compromise ourselves is when we get into trouble, and when we become co-dependent.
Co-dependency is that compromise.

Yes, it's a bit more complicated then that, but basically that's the bottom line.

You aren't alone with these feelings. Millions of people suffer from the exact same thing.

Read your post over again and this time hear it as if it were a good friend telling you this. What would you think then? What would you tell her?
Never mind that you understand or empathize because it's your story. If your sister, or your very best friend, came to you and told you this, what would your feelings be then? Would you want her to compromise herself? Would you want her to settle?

We very often have one rule for ourselves and a completely different rule for everyone else. We'd probably not tell someone we care about to do what we've accepted as tolerable for ourselves. We wouldn't agree that it's ok for them to make such accommodations, but when it's ourselves, suddenly it's different. Why? Don't you deserve the same consideration? The same respect?

You DO deserve that consideration. You DO deserve respect. You DO deserve healthy love.
I say the following with good intentions for you;
Why has it become ok for you to accept less?