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Author Topic: Strip Poker (old interest thread - casual)  (Read 10319 times)

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Offline XillenTopic starter

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human]
« Reply #50 on: July 01, 2008, 06:37:30 PM »
I'll be keeping them on unless there's a majority against it, I don't think its fair for you to dictate those details. It's not like they hide anything... ;)

I was giving my personal opinion, not dictating. If the rest is fine with having non-concealing clothes remaining on, then I'll abide to that. And they do hide something, your legs. Naked women's legs can be something interesting to watch, you know ;)

Offline Haibane

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human]
« Reply #51 on: July 01, 2008, 06:55:42 PM »
Hmm, they don't hide them. Trousers hide them. A suit of armour hides them! ;) And it depends on your POV, some men have told me they positively enhance the legs :P

Of course, if it comes to a dare, your character could simply 'dare' mine to take them off and she could not refuse :P

Is my bio okay?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 06:59:53 PM by Haibane »

Offline XillenTopic starter

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human]
« Reply #52 on: July 01, 2008, 07:00:14 PM »
The Bio's look fine to me. :)

Offline Question Mark

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human]
« Reply #53 on: July 01, 2008, 07:14:31 PM »
I hope this gets off the ground soon.

On a different note, I think a women's legs are best left bare, from a personal standpoint, but I support whatever Haibane decides.

Offline XillenTopic starter

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human]
« Reply #54 on: July 01, 2008, 07:24:33 PM »
Some minor details about the chips, that I thought might stimulate action:

- Couples can always buy one of their own chips back by paying a chip they won from another couple. (Example: Haibane&QM have one of my chips. Candylips&I have at least one chip of Haibane, QM, Jeramiahh or Sabetha. We could pay that single chip to get my own chip back.)

- If all three chips of a character has left his/her possession, whichever couple has 2 of the 3 chips can buy the third chip by paying a chip they won from another couple. (Example: Haibane&QM have 2 of Jeramiahh's chips. Candylips&I have 1. Haibane&QM also have at least one chip of Sabetha, Candylips or me. They could pay that one chip to buy the 3rd Jeramiahh chip. They could never buy Jeramiahh's 3rd chip if it was still in the possession of Jeramiahh&Sabetha.)

This would ensure that if a player's 3rd chip is out there, it comes into effect quite early, instead of lying dorment, spread among different couples. Your ideas?

Offline Haibane

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human]
« Reply #55 on: July 01, 2008, 07:53:52 PM »
I'm not 100% sure I follow, but if QM does... I'm fine.

Offline Question Mark

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human]
« Reply #56 on: July 01, 2008, 08:01:45 PM »
I'm still trying to understand the game.  It's very confusing, but I'm sure it'll just click soon.

Offline Sabetha

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human]
« Reply #57 on: July 02, 2008, 12:58:27 AM »
I'm inclined to go with Haibane on the stockings question, and also jewelry.  We can just have our characters agree at start that those don't count.  IRL, I'd worry about losing any earrings/jewelry I was wearing if I took it off at someone's house, and a lot of people wouldn't want to remove their wedding rings.

It might be fun to say that our characters agree to strip down to seven articles of clothing per couple; we might get to start off with shoes, jackets, and panties being removed.

I'm fine with Liar's Dice, I even kind of understand all the rules discussed so far!  Xillen, in your most recent post, would people have to trade chips if someone wanted to, or can they say no?  For example, if you and Candylips want to trade one of your chips for one of mine, would I be able to not trade?

Offline Idej

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human]
« Reply #58 on: July 02, 2008, 01:23:08 AM »
If there is another Lady around that is interested I wouldn't mind joining in.

Offline Question Mark

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human]
« Reply #59 on: July 02, 2008, 01:56:43 AM »
I think I get it now.  Good.  I also just realized the benefit of using couples.  Since this is a structured game, just one person missing would snare up the entire game, bringing it to a grinding halt.  But with couples, either one could be missing, and the other one would be able to keep playing the game (although maybe not as well, without another person's input).  That is allowed, right?

Offline XillenTopic starter

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human]
« Reply #60 on: July 02, 2008, 03:49:03 AM »
I'm inclined to go with Haibane on the stockings question, and also jewelry.  We can just have our characters agree at start that those don't count.  IRL, I'd worry about losing any earrings/jewelry I was wearing if I took it off at someone's house, and a lot of people wouldn't want to remove their wedding rings.

It might be fun to say that our characters agree to strip down to seven articles of clothing per couple; we might get to start off with shoes, jackets, and panties being removed.

Good point about the jewelry, though I agree less about the stockings... No fun in rubbing covered legs either :P But the general concensus seems in favor of allowing them on. I do prefer a fixed limit myself as well (which, in storyline, would require people to strip down somewhat, of course).

I'm fine with Liar's Dice, I even kind of understand all the rules discussed so far!  Xillen, in your most recent post, would people have to trade chips if someone wanted to, or can they say no?  For example, if you and Candylips want to trade one of your chips for one of mine, would I be able to not trade?

If you were holding onto a chip with Candylips or my name on it, then yes, you would have to do the trade. This allows someone to be bought out, after becoming a playmate.

Likewise, if we own, say, two chips of Haibane, and you own one, and we have one chip of QM/Jeramiahh/Sabetha to offer in return, you'd have to accept the trade as well, to make sure three chips away from home meet up reasonably fast.

Any other trades are permitted, but only if both sides agree.



If there is another Lady around that is interested I wouldn't mind joining in.

If we can find another lady willing to be your partner, then that's fine with me. I'll adjust the topic.



But with couples, either one could be missing, and the other one would be able to keep playing the game (although maybe not as well, without another person's input).  That is allowed, right?

Yeah, and as for the calling and raising, this might be recommended. However, when it's time to strip or dare, people should be allowed to wait for their partner's return, not being forced to cough up the penalty by themselves.

Offline Question Mark

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human] In need of one female.
« Reply #61 on: July 02, 2008, 09:36:56 AM »
What are the limits for our dares, as in, what can we do or not do?  Will that be established here, or in game?

Offline Idej

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human] In need of one female.
« Reply #62 on: July 02, 2008, 09:43:34 AM »
Thanks man.:)  As soon as word from another lady shows, I'll get a background then.

Offline XillenTopic starter

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human] In need of one female.
« Reply #63 on: July 02, 2008, 10:03:24 AM »
What are the limits for our dares, as in, what can we do or not do?  Will that be established here, or in game?

I don't think it's something that would be discussed in character, as the characters trust each other, but it's fine to make some rules on it out of character. These are the rules for dares established in the other game:

Quote
If a participant disagrees to a dare (and thus drops an article of clothing), that same dare (or something highly resembling it) cannot be asked to the same person again. If the dare involved another person, a dare is only considered the same if the other person is of the same gender as the first occasion.

This rule makes no sense in this game. What's the use of asking something of someone that you know that person won't do in the first place. There's no real point into pushing people out of the game.

Quote
Dares that cause injuries or permanent alterations to the body are not permitted.
Dares that require the touching of bodily wastes are not permitted.

These seem to make sense. I might mention anything that has to do with bodily wastes, but since some people actually enjoy enema's, that might just be limiting the options.

Quote
Dares that require someone to eat or drink anything are not permitted.
Dares cannot include any equipment other than those provided.

Again, the characters can trust each other not to poison/drug them, so again, this rule doesn't make sense.

I guess "No cameras" could be added as a rule, since people want to feel secure.

I can't think of any other good rules right now. Maybe we could bar streaking as well, but I'm not sure anyone would actually enjoy it.



Idej> Sure. Feel free to mention this thread to anyone if you have any writing partners that you think would enjoy this.

Offline Haibane

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human] In need of one female.
« Reply #64 on: July 02, 2008, 03:16:20 PM »
we might get to start off with ... panties being removed.
Wow... hee hee. You are an interesting lady!

If there is another Lady around that is interested I wouldn't mind joining in.
Welcome! I hope so too!

Any other trades are permitted, but only if both sides agree.
My girl is a bit of a sexually adventurous person, depending on what hubby thinks/wants Aggy might REFUSE to be bought back out of 'plaything' status  ;D Especially if Xillen's character is using her as a chair at the time :)

What are the limits for our dares, as in, what can we do or not do?  Will that be established here, or in game?
The vibe I'm getting is that you just need to be sensible and mature here and look in-character at the setting: a comfy well-to-do family household, a luxurious room - we are not going to do anything involving watersports or scat or blood letting in such a setting; I'd say no to enemas, its just too messy! I think general rules of 'decent' behaviour would apply: lots of sexy stuff, all kinds of sexual congress, some mild S&M, a little bit of humiliation, maybe some lesbian/gay contact (to those for whom its not an OFF), maybe some actual kids type dares such as "go outside in the garden where the neighbours might see you, lie on the pool diving board and masturbate to orgasm," and at all times when you are about to give a dare, look at the player(s) O/Os and avoid a dare that infringes them. To me streaking/exhibitionism is fine.

I agree less about the stockings... No fun in rubbing covered legs either :P
Aw, now, you see? That's how fetishes work. I can get incredibly hot if my BF kneels in front of me and strokes my legs through my nylons for five minutes. I'm in heaven in no time. And if he starts kissing me and nibbling me through them, working his way teasingly up my thigh towards... gah! I'm dripping straight away, literally! And yet with you it has no effect, which is fine, I just don't see it as fair that because its not your thing, every girl must go bare legged... :) I don't think all the girls present will keep hose on anyway so I'm sure your character will have at least one pair of bare silky smooth thighs to go and rub himself against or something... :P And of course as I said yesterday, you can give me a dare ordering me to take them off!

And yeah, I agree once a dare is refused you can't repeat that dare, or even one very similar to that person, that's silly.

Offline Haibane

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human] In need of one female.
« Reply #65 on: July 02, 2008, 03:18:14 PM »
Ah, double post, sorry!

Hi guys

Am I right, Xillen, in thinking:

Quote
If both members of a couple have only one chip left, they should only take a dare if at least one partner is willing to bet their last chip. If a couple ends up naked with only one chip left each, they should bow out of the game (not the RP) and be spectators. People can still (and are encouraged to) use spectators in dares of other people, though of course everyone is able to decline a dare that's not meant for him or herself. Of course, couples with no clothes and no chips left (or one partner spent the last chip, and the other partner does not wish to spend the last chip) are also spectators.
Which was in the first game rules post up the top of this thread, is now replaced by:

Quote
If all three chips of a character have left his/her possession, whichever couple has 2 of the 3 chips can buy the third chip by paying a chip they won from another couple. (Example: Haibane&QM have 2 of Jeramiahh's chips. Candylips&I have 1. Haibane&QM also have at least one chip of Sabetha, Candylips or me. They could pay that one chip to buy the 3rd Jeramiahh chip. They could never buy Jeramiahh's 3rd chip if it was still in the possession of Jeramiahh&Sabetha.)
From just up here above, yes?

I have to confess I find the strip/dares/chips rules a wee bit confusing (I am a Bear Of Very Little Brain) but thatís probably because Iím new to it and Iím sure when we get going it will all fall into place.

So, we just need one more lady, six bios then an agreement of Ė what? 7 items of clothing total between each couple? And a starter post by Xillen and weíre good to go, yes?

Offline XillenTopic starter

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human] In need of one female.
« Reply #66 on: July 02, 2008, 03:51:01 PM »
Every couple starts with six chips. Three chips are marked with the name of the male partner, the other three chips are marked with the name of the female partner.

Every round has one winner and one loser. If couple A sends a bet to couple B, and B calls the bet, then they're the winner and the loser. If the bet was true, then A is the winner and B is the loser. If the bet was false, then B is the winner and A is the loser.

The loser couple has to choose: Strip or Dare. If they decide to strip, one of the partners must discard an article of clothing. Couples need to decide for themselves who will do the stripping. Obviously, a couple that dropped all seven articles of clothing cannot choose to strip and must take a dare.

If the loser couple decides to dare, the winner couple sends them a dare. The loser couple again has two choices. Either one of them (or they, if it requires interaction) performs the dare, or they give one of their chips to the winner couple. This can be either one of their own chips, or a chip they won from another couple.

I suggest NOT looking at other people's O/O's when making up a dare! People can choose if they take a dare or pay a chip, so they never ever have to perform a dare if they don't want to. It would be a boring game if we'd be considerate to each other's O/O's all the time, as it would mean there wouldn't be any chips going around.


If one of your chips left home, and you won someone else's chip, you can always force a trade, offering a chip that doesn't belong to either yourself or your partner to receive a chip that does. This trade cannot be declined. However, nobody else can force that on you. If you're being a playmate, but your partner managed to collect another chip, then only you and your partner can decide this. How you and your partner work this out is up to you.

(There is one exception to this, and that is that the chip with your name on it is offered as the return chip for a forced deal. Assume for a moment that you have one chip with my name on it, and I have one chip with your name on it. If I want my chip back and offer your chip in return, you cannot decline the deal, even if you don't want your own chip back.)

Likewise, when all three of your chips left home, it would be pretty boring, if they were just collecting dust in different stacks. Therefor, if a couple managed to get their hands on two chips of one person, and they have at least one other chip not belonging to themselves, then they can force trade that other chip for the third chip of that person, drastically raising the chance that you end up as someone's playmate.

If the logic is beyond you, then you'll have to trust me that this should raise longevity and increase the chance on playmates functioning.


You can't dare someone to take their clothes off, as they just chosen a dare in order not to strip. You can however offer a chip for someone to take off an article. Daring someone to take something off that didn't count as clothes could be possible, but doesn't that make it effectively another article?

I still think it's a strip game, so clothes should come off. My opinion is that if you want to keep the stockings on, you'll have to reserve an article of clothing for it, meaning your couple has six other clothes to play with. Imagine for a moment that my character has a fetish about having his member rubbed through his boxershort. Does that mean I'm allowed to keep my boxershort on? I see the point of jewelry, but not of stockings, but since the rest seems to disagrees with me, I'll rest myself with the majority.


Quote
If both members of a couple have only one chip left, they should only take a dare if at least one partner is willing to bet their last chip. If a couple ends up naked with only one chip left each, they should bow out of the game (not the RP) and be spectators. People can still (and are encouraged to) use spectators in dares of other people, though of course everyone is able to decline a dare that's not meant for him or herself. Of course, couples with no clothes and no chips left (or one partner spent the last chip, and the other partner does not wish to spend the last chip) are also spectators.

This rule is not replaced. Not everyone is interested in becoming a playmate, and those people that don't want to become a playmate should bail out of the game when their last chip is all they have left.


And yeah, the dares mostly rely on sense and maturity. Ok, so no toiletplay whatsoever, including enemas. No scars/branding/tattoos/mutilation. Other than that, use your head. The only one that's open to discussion is exhibitionism to the outside world (streaking/cameras), but people could simply buy themselves out of such dares.

I'm still working out details with Candylips, which I guess we should complete before I post the room (Sigh, I end up being the host for both poker games :P). Haibane and QM seem done. Not sure about Jeramiahh and Sabetha. It would be nice if we could find Idej a partner, but we could start the initial posts of the thread.

Where do we want to start the story? Do we want the couples to come inside, or are they already installed nicely. In the first case, we should've agreed on the game beforehand, else it might take a rather long while to naturally grow towards the game.

Offline Haibane

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human] In need of one female.
« Reply #67 on: July 02, 2008, 04:45:51 PM »
Quote
Where do we want to start the story? Do we want the couples to come inside, or are they already installed nicely. In the first case, we should've agreed on the game beforehand, else it might take a rather long while to naturally grow towards the game.
I would suggest the game starts as everyone has just finished a light dinner (nothing heavy that will bloat us), its all cleared away, and they are taking their drinks into the cosy lounge area. During dinner and on the invites it can be assumed that EVERYTHING in this thread was discussed, so in effect we are in-game now, in this thread insofar as the parts that concern rules, dares, gameplay etc go.

The PMs between couples that are going backwards and forwards right now deciding things represent hubby/wife teams quietly working things out at the dinner table.

Does that make sense?

Lets drop the stockings discussion, its got all out of proportion.

As to O/Os, no we MUST respect O/Os. My O/Os (or rather the OFFS) are things than in real life upset, annoy, bore or revolt me. I want to play a fun game here, not to be upset, annoyed, bored and revolted. Like, duh, thats why we HAVE O/Os so we can role-play safe in the knowledge that other players won't do things we dislike. I am not into incest. If one of the pairs of partners decide they are sister and brother I would have big problems with that... Also if I have an OFF and someone dares me to do something involving that OFF I'd claim it void and ask them to choose another. The game isn't fun if we force people to do that which they don't want to do in that respect. I think we'll need an OOC thread to work through things like that.

Offline XillenTopic starter

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human] In need of one female.
« Reply #68 on: July 02, 2008, 04:56:54 PM »
I would suggest the game starts as everyone has just finished a light dinner (nothing heavy that will bloat us), its all cleared away, and they are taking their drinks into the cosy lounge area. During dinner and on the invites it can be assumed that EVERYTHING in this thread was discussed, so in effect we are in-game now, in this thread insofar as the parts that concern rules, dares, gameplay etc go.

Sounds fine with me.

The PMs between couples that are going backwards and forwards right now deciding things represent hubby/wife teams quietly working things out at the dinner table.

There's also some discussion about the relationship between our characters in general, but I get what you mean.

As to O/Os, no we MUST respect O/Os. My O/Os (or rather the OFFS) are things than in real life upset, annoy, bore or revolt me. I want to play a fun game here, not to be upset, annoyed, bored and revolted. Like, duh, thats why we HAVE O/Os so we can role-play safe in the knowledge that other players won't do things we dislike. I am not into incest. If one of the pairs of partners decide they are sister and brother I would have big problems with that... Also if I have an OFF and someone dares me to do something involving that OFF I'd claim it void and ask them to choose another. The game isn't fun if we force people to do that which they don't want to do in that respect. I think we'll need an OOC thread to work through things like that.

Please DO read the entire text!

In no way can people EVER force you into a dare. People just propose a dare, and then you can choose: Perform it or pay a chip. Someone suggests a dare to you that you're not willing to do? Pay the chip, that's what they're for!

The characters shouldn't propose dares that are outright revoltive, but the characters also won't know exactly about each other's ons and offs. Remember, the characters aren't trying to push the other characters out of the game, so they're trying to propose dares that they think the others will be willing to do so that they have something interesting to watch. Sometimes they go a little off and suggest something that might go a tad too far for some, and then that person can go "Sorry, won't do." and cough up a chip.

I seriously don't see the problem with this setup.

Offs are there to prevent players backing up in the middle of a story, causing unnatural revamps. There's nothing unnatural here, since the chip idea is implemented for this.

Offline Question Mark

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human] In need of one female.
« Reply #69 on: July 02, 2008, 05:06:27 PM »
Please DO read the entire text!

In no way can people EVER force you into a dare. People just propose a dare, and then you can choose: Perform it or pay a chip. Someone suggests a dare to you that you're not willing to do? Pay the chip, that's what they're for!

The characters shouldn't propose dares that are outright revoltive, but the characters also won't know exactly about each other's ons and offs. Remember, the characters aren't trying to push the other characters out of the game, so they're trying to propose dares that they think the others will be willing to do so that they have something interesting to watch. Sometimes they go a little off and suggest something that might go a tad too far for some, and then that person can go "Sorry, won't do." and cough up a chip.

I seriously don't see the problem with this setup.

Offs are there to prevent players backing up in the middle of a story, causing unnatural revamps. There's nothing unnatural here, since the chip idea is implemented for this.

I agree with you Xillen, aside from the intentional avoidance of other people's O&O's.  We should be conscience of what puts people off, while simulataneously working that into our character's actions, specifically their dares.  This is easily justified since our characters know each other well enough to understand what puts people off.

Offline XillenTopic starter

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human] In need of one female.
« Reply #70 on: July 02, 2008, 05:09:46 PM »
So... basically you're saying that we should only suggest dares that we know beforehand the receiver will enjoy to the fullest? How does that make it dares?

Offline Haibane

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human] In need of one female.
« Reply #71 on: July 02, 2008, 05:36:03 PM »
I don't think we are on the same wavelength here at all. I see this as a fun evening between friends, all relaxed and having a few drinks and a laugh and some sexy goings on. Surely the point is we *enjoy* ourselves, what is the point among a group of fun-loving friends in giving dares that are going to be... well... er... not sexy. Not fun. A bit thrilling, a *bit* daring, sure: "Run down the road and back naked" is a fun thrilling silly dare, I'd be fine with that. "Have a lesbian 69 with Sabetha" is a fun sexy thrilling dare, I'd be fine with that. Now if Question Mark dared Xillen to have a 69 with Jeramiahh KNOWING that Xillen's character hated gay sex (and he does since Xillen has it listed in his OFFs) that's not fun, or sexy, or a reasonable dare, its just a way to get a chip off him unfairly. I'd say that was what we don't want to do.

I think we all want to have fun. My character will give up chips and do dares even if she does not have to - surely that's the point. If hubby is OK with it, I'd love Aggy to become a plaything, its what excites her. The keen competitive end of things is for the casino poker game next door, this is the sexy friends gathering game where we all stay in our comfort zone.

Or have I completely missed the point and I should leave?

Offline Question Mark

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human] In need of one female.
« Reply #72 on: July 02, 2008, 05:59:05 PM »
Or have I completely missed the point and I should leave?

Please don't.  I doubt Rick would take too kindly.  Did I forget to mention his temper in his profile?  How forgetful of me.  *smiles*

Seriousness: I completely agree with you Haibane, in the sense that that is how I see it.  And textually.  And emotionally.  And spiritually.  Well, maybe not spiritually, but definately the other stuff.  XD

Offline XillenTopic starter

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human] In need of one female.
« Reply #73 on: July 02, 2008, 06:00:05 PM »
No, you got it right mostly, but not completely.

The characters would probably know that my character ain't into male-male body contact, so yeah, they would know beforehand that I'd just be putting in a chip. On the other hand, my character would be discomfortable running down the road and back naked as well, and probably chip in there as well. If you'd check my O/O page in detail, you'd know that would be an off for me as well. Doesn't mean that would spoil the night if it was suggested as a dare.

There is a clear distinction between being aware of people's general O/O's (and by now I guess most of us checked each other's O/O's more than once), and checking up on it into the tiniest detail.

Example: I'm aware of your O/O's in general, but I just checked it for the purpose of this example, and noticed you dislike male facial hair. Say my character has decided to grow a beard recently. My character could've dared your character into giving him a kiss (Assuming I had forgotten about the facial hair off). It's on your offs, so I'm guessing you'd dislike to do so, but it's not so utterly repulsive, that it would wreck the spirit for the entire evening. You would chip out of dare, we'd laugh a bit, and move on to the next round.

What I'm saying is that we shouldn't completely forget about each other's O/O's, or try to push for someone's Offs. On the contrary. I'm only saying we shouldn't be completely nitpicking them, as there is a built-in option to the game to bail out of them, if one surfaces. For example, I have a pretty detailed O/O list, so I ask most of my female writing partners if any of my ons tick them off, and there are quite a few that, despite having a decent list themselves, note a detail or two that ticks them off. I'm not planning on asking that for this game, because they can simply chip out.

We shouldn't be forcing people to chip out of dares, but we also shouldn't be too scared about having someone chip out sometime.

If I'm proposing a dare, then casual for me is keeping the general O/O's of my opponents as I remember them in mind, and not nitpicking each of their O/O's to see if any minor detail might be in place that would prevent the possibility, checking my partner's O/O's as well, to see if it could still work out between the male opponent and my partner.

Hope that clears up my thoughts on the process?


On a sidenote, from what we discussed so far, the couple, and not a specific person, is given a dare, so the couple can decide on who will perform that dare. Your example forces dares on specific people.

Do you think the rule where the couple can decide who takes the dare is wrong?

Offline XillenTopic starter

Re: The strip game! [Med/Bon-Human] In need of one female.
« Reply #74 on: July 02, 2008, 06:04:02 PM »
In short:

Dares should be given so that you think the receiving characters will actually perform the dare, else where is the fun?

I just don't see the reason why we should make completely sure by going through several O/O's for every single dare, nitpicking everything into the slightest detail. That doesn't really feel like my idea of casual.