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Author Topic: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused  (Read 17922 times)

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Offline KolbrandrTopic starter

Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #600 on: June 21, 2013, 03:43:02 PM »
So basically a noble family with an extremely reform minded son?

Offline kckolbe

Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #601 on: June 21, 2013, 03:46:00 PM »
I agree that it is a different approach to power than most of us are taking, though the fact that he was already the son of a duke does somewhat cheapen his success.

Offline Alliance

Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #602 on: June 21, 2013, 04:15:10 PM »
@Kollan: Yes.

@Kc: Good or bad thing?

Offline kckolbe

Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #603 on: June 21, 2013, 04:27:53 PM »
I'm not really sure.  What kind of change is he trying to influence?  How much status did his family have before he started writing?  I am intrigued, though.

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Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #604 on: June 21, 2013, 04:50:17 PM »
  I'm with KC.   

  Does the Duelist PRC use armor now? 

Offline KolbrandrTopic starter

Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #605 on: June 21, 2013, 05:24:30 PM »
Quote
It would seem that finding 6 of the order in armor and with dead around them would cuase some to rethink their perceptions or should I just drop that and let it play out

Phaia

That part's fine.

Offline KolbrandrTopic starter

Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #606 on: June 21, 2013, 05:25:38 PM »
  I'm with KC.   

  Does the Duelist PRC use armor now?

It can use light armor without losing class benefits, yeah.

Offline Meliai

Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #607 on: June 21, 2013, 05:52:11 PM »
There was a little misunderstanding with the Eye's sigil; just in case anyone else is confused, I'l pop my clarification up here and edit it into the main article later

Quote
I don't think I really described their "sigil" particularly well, sorry. They had an actual proper official banner back before they went underground, but that's been gone for a couple hundred years and no one really remembers what it was, though admittedly there was probably an eye involved. The eye was chosen specifically because it's a very generic symbol. Probably every fortune teller in the city has an eye somewhere on their person or shopfront. The idea is that if you don't already know someone is in the order (there are only about 25 members in addition to the main 4) the sigil doesn't give them away. If it weren't for the need to pass secret messages they probably wouldn't wear one at all.
Esta wears a ton of jewelry, she has a bracelet with an eye on it that serves as her sigil.
Kale wears scarves with eyes, among other things, embroidered on them.
Ellinniel wears a big creepy pendant made from a preserved goat's eye.
Aelia paints a pair of cat eyes on the back of her hands every morning.
Someone might have a little paper card in the window of their shop with an eye drawn on it, someone else might wear a veil with an eye central in its design. They're all different.
Having something like the color-split Nethys symbol would be horribly horribly dangerous for them, as it would allow outside observers to easily tie members to one another and therefor make it easier to connect the dots and realize they're working together, and thus get all their heads cut off.

Offline Phaia

Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #608 on: June 21, 2013, 07:01:43 PM »
let me introduce you to the Senior Ladies of the Royal Order of Companions!!
Levels not shown until approved

Phaia


Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Lady Ahrainna ndu'Aran, The 20th High Domina of The Royal Order of Companions: [Half-Elf] (Bard//Sorcerer gestalt);












Lady Moto`fuego ndu'Aran 'The Blade' [Tiefling] (Bard -Acrane Duelist Archetype-//Fighter -Rondelero Duelist Archetype- gestalt)













Lady Selina ndu'Aran [Catfolk] (Bard-Arcane Dueliest Archetype-):













Lady Nessitla ndu'Aran [Dwarf] (Bard -Archivist Archetype-)- Head of the Orders Library and Training:












Lady Elsbeth ndu'Aran [Half-Elf] (Bard//Cleric gestlat):













Offline kckolbe

Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #609 on: June 21, 2013, 07:05:42 PM »
They are very lovely.

Offline EroticFantasyAuthor

Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #610 on: June 21, 2013, 09:10:55 PM »
DM PM reminder.  ;D

Offline Shaitan

Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #611 on: June 21, 2013, 09:42:56 PM »

Okay, some notes. First up, as a minor thing from what we talked about, squadrons are lead by knight commanders, the Germande would be a knight commander, the Master of Horse is the title for the leader of the entire Taldan cavalry. We had knight captains over 200 guys.


I'd really like the strengths and weaknesses to be marked out in the way both myself and others have been doing in separate entries, they otherwise can flow into each other and be murky as to where one begins and the other ends.

Also, again, non hereditary knighthoods are a thing amongst humans as well, and in our own world. They're certainly a way for Taldor to knight a dude and not imperil the whole touchy aristocracy thing, but they do still come with being a knight.

And again, as far as the military certainly, Taldor is not that racist. People aren't going to hate on you for being demihumans as far as the army generally. That apparently every commander in the Taldan military hates you guys and is hated right back makes it a bit dubious that your unit still exists at all. There's a point where that kind of thing becomes counter productive to the operating of the entire army.

I had thought the idea was that your immediate squadron loathes you guys, for themselves being the actual worst of the worst of the Taldan Horse armies, compared to them saying you guys are.

Speaking of the operating of the entire army, we again seem to be in the place where your group are of superior quality to the entire Taldan military. The Master of Horse is a paladin (this guy, to remind: http://elliquiy.com/wiki/House_Eiredor#Lord_Commander_Triamond_Eiredor.2C_Master_of_the_Taldan_Horse_.28Cavalier_13.2FPaladin_13.29 ), I assure you, when he leads his command unit out at undead, they don't flinch.

Which.. okay, it seems like you didn't really run with a lot of the stuff I had suggested. Being in that terrible squadron with the terrible commander and having to carry them is there, but the implication that the rest of the army sucks too remains. The whole thing about about having the Master of Horse as a patron who will intervene on your unitís behalf when it gets really bad, who used guile and the 127th's acceptance of incredibly difficult situations to put them in that squadron to keep it from collapsing and remaining effective. What with basically having taken all the terrible political appointments, family favour enlisting and brainless glory hounding egomaniacs and quarantined them to a single squadron.

Again, being the 200 effective guys having to carry a thousand strong force of knights otherwise is fine. Being better than the entire Taldan military because they just donít comparatively know what theyíre doing is not so good. Even in the Branas writeup, who are put up there as the military paragon npc royal house, there is still the note ďthe Eiredor have similar quality troops, and the Durahan are just as personally skilledĒ. And they have a bunch of weaknesses that are legitimate flaws from their own nature that fuck with them and make their lives harder. There are military forces in Taldor who are in their own way as good as these guys at what they do, be they the Branas dire lion riders, or Triamond Eiredorís personal commandery.

Basically weíre crashing into the limits of your thematics and the campaignís thematics again. It feels basically like the 127th is Wolverine, and the idea that Wolverine might sometimes need the help of a patron or ally lessens Wolverine. But while Wolverine may like to say heís the best there is at what he does, the guy needs the help of the rest of the X-men. The problem of having an entire unit of peerless maverick renegades is that well, everyone else around them does have to be incompetent, or their peerless maverick renegadery is rendered pointless, and instead becomes douchebaggery. Iím trying to find ways to help you still have the unit be those guys and be true to that spirit, without rendering every other military force in Taldor less competent assholes who just donít get it at best.

I wasn't intending to throw out any of the suggestions that you had made, I'm honestly still trying to fit them in, clearly not doing so hot in that process either. Also you're right that I need down power them, wasn't intending to overpower them, that part certainly needs to be corrected. Seems I still have quite a bit more to rework on it. Or I might just be a bad fit for the campaign, which I'm hoping isn't the case lol.

Also thank you for working with me on this, I figure I am frustrating to work with by this point.

Edit: I am going to withdraw my application, the more I look it over the more I think that I'm not going to be a very good fit for the game. I apologize if I made anything difficult or frustrating. I'll clear out the stuff on the wiki for the unit to help clear some space up for anyone else that wants to take a crack at it. I hope that I haven't caused any issues for anyone else. And thanks for being patient with me Kolbrandr.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 10:04:21 PM by Shaitan »

Offline kckolbe

Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #612 on: June 21, 2013, 10:36:45 PM »
I have mixed feelings on this one.  Generally, I say "trust your instincts" or "never go back once you decide to leave" but I think you are leaving for the wrong reason.  Your concept isn't horrible, and represents something different (so far none of the PCs are actually in the military). 

I think there are a number of tweaks you could make that would get you approved a lot faster, like just making him human or a generic war hero, but I think the fact that you are trying to do something different makes it more interesting.  I would advise perhaps adding a black mark to his story, since you seem to want him to have a conflicted status, so maybe he had some scandal or pissed off someone important.

Offline Phaia

Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #613 on: June 21, 2013, 10:39:34 PM »
This is what I see as the Orders strengths and weaknesses...what do ya think?

Phaia

Strengths and Weaknesses:
Strengths of the Order:

Bards, Bards, Bards: Anytime a bunch of bards can work together they seem to enhance each others abilities. When you have an entire Order of Bards it just begins to get scary. If one fails to charm, there are always more around. Bards also know way to much and having an entire order of them allows different bards to become very knowledgeable in one or two fields which then aids the others.

Center of Power: Nearly everyday and for many hours a day the Order is in the palace and attending various members of the Royal Family. This gives them near unparalleled access and some claim far too much influence. Being the unofficial protectors of the Royal Family often lets them layer the children from those that want to gain access to them.

Wealth: For their size the Order has a lot of gold. Stipends from the crown as well as very favorable tax rates and their own ways of making money has made the order wealthy and has enriched many a 'Lady' over the years.

Secrets: Over the years the Order has found out many secrets and uncovered many plots. This makes them dangerous to those that would try and use the crown for their own desires.


Weaknesses of the Order:

Bards, Bards, Bards: When even the lowest Lady is forced to become a bard it skews the abilities of the order. Like House Branas completely martial leanings the Order is often to focused on bardic ability and performing when they should be expanding their skill set.

No True Loyalty: Though the order is very influential they have no real allies save the Grand Prince and the Royal Family. There are plenty of houses that if attacked could call on aid from other sources. The Order has to rely on the Grand Prince or their own abilities.

At the Center of power: Being Bards they all have the ability at some point to make suggestions, not the normal kind but those bardic kinds that can make a normal man crow like a duck. Add in they are always around and who knows maybe they are the ones that have caused all the problems for the past 500 years.

No Martial Present: Save for a small house guard the order has no military and really cannot hire a mercenary unit without many questions being asked. So an all out military move on the House would force them to abandon much of what they have built and try and convince the Grand Prince to send out the army in their support.

Nonhuman and all female: Does anything else really need to be said?


Offline Phaia

Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #614 on: June 21, 2013, 10:40:43 PM »
Shaitan I would be more then happy to bounce ideas around with you...see if I can help out

Phaia

Offline kckolbe

Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #615 on: June 21, 2013, 10:51:27 PM »
"Being the unofficial protectors of the Royal Family often lets them layer the children from those that want to gain access to them."

I think this may be outside their call, especially since the Royal Family has official protectors.

"Stipends from the crown as well as very favorable tax rates and their own ways of making money has made the order wealthy and has enriched many a 'Lady' over the years."

How much money do they make?  I got the impression that the Royal Family and possibly certain positions enjoy the Ladies for free.

Offline Shaitan

Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #616 on: June 21, 2013, 11:11:18 PM »
Sure Phaia I'll bounce some ideas if you'd like, but I honestly don't think I'm going to end up a good fit.

kckolbe, the process for creating it wasn't fun anymore, and there seemed to be some difference of opinion between myself and others about certain aspects of the design that just didn't seem to be coming across. At the point where its not fun anymore where its more like a job its better to walk away. If its not getting fun for me, then I imagine its rough for the dm. I dm outside of elli friday nights and have been through this type of situation where somewhere along the lines communication just isn't clicking and its kicking frustrations up. I respect the dm for trying this amazingly in depth game, I couldn't do it, I'd be tearing out my hair pretty fast with 10+ players and then cohorts and more gestalt on top of it all. Last thing I want to do is be a source of frustration and irritation for the guy who wants to run this, being a source like that all I would be doing would be costing the other players who have concepts that are working better for the views of the dm.

Offline Alliance

Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #617 on: June 22, 2013, 01:39:54 AM »
I'm not really sure.  What kind of change is he trying to influence?  How much status did his family have before he started writing?  I am intrigued, though.

The family is known enough that some of the higher noble families do listen to their ideas. Though he's trying to bring about a new more "modern" view of politics. Especially considering how he sees his family behaves, very often the family is trying to clime from Duke and get further and higher than the other noble families. They are also a trade business family, but only work for profit and greed.

They are though moderately wealthy, and moderately high in status before he begins to write. But have over the years become favored due to their callous approach to capitalism. Where as you'd say he is more reformed in a socio capitalist view.

Offline KolbrandrTopic starter

Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #618 on: June 22, 2013, 02:43:29 AM »
The family is known enough that some of the higher noble families do listen to their ideas. Though he's trying to bring about a new more "modern" view of politics. Especially considering how he sees his family behaves, very often the family is trying to clime from Duke and get further and higher than the other noble families. They are also a trade business family, but only work for profit and greed.

They are though moderately wealthy, and moderately high in status before he begins to write. But have over the years become favored due to their callous approach to capitalism. Where as you'd say he is more reformed in a socio capitalist view.

How modern an idea set is he trying to push for? Full out democracy? Because.. that's not likely to fly in Taldor really, if he has Andoran style democratic sympathies, he'd have to try and keep those to himself.

Offline KolbrandrTopic starter

Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #619 on: June 22, 2013, 02:46:57 AM »
Quote
Edit: I am going to withdraw my application, the more I look it over the more I think that I'm not going to be a very good fit for the game. I apologize if I made anything difficult or frustrating. I'll clear out the stuff on the wiki for the unit to help clear some space up for anyone else that wants to take a crack at it. I hope that I haven't caused any issues for anyone else. And thanks for being patient with me Kolbrandr.

I'm sorry to hear that, and I appreciate you being even keeled about the whole thing. I do think that ultimately if it starts feeling more like you're having to basically pay what feels like a fun tax in time and frustration to try and bring the idea you're hoping for to bear (and I've had that experience myself really), that is probably a time to walk back from it.

Offline kckolbe

Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #620 on: June 22, 2013, 07:12:32 AM »
The family is known enough that some of the higher noble families do listen to their ideas. Though he's trying to bring about a new more "modern" view of politics. Especially considering how he sees his family behaves, very often the family is trying to clime from Duke and get further and higher than the other noble families. They are also a trade business family, but only work for profit and greed.

They are though moderately wealthy, and moderately high in status before he begins to write. But have over the years become favored due to their callous approach to capitalism. Where as you'd say he is more reformed in a socio capitalist view.

What concerns me is that a call for a more democratic society would weaken his House's position, since his own status as one of the Royal Houses and the status of those around him is fully inherited.  He might gain some significant support from the unbearded, which is significant, but it would come with the antagonism of his fellow Royal Houses, which hold considerable power. 

I am unsure how the senatorial families would feel.  Kol, help me out with this one.  In fact, would it make more sense for him to be from one of the senatorial Houses?  I think that might give him a bit more freedom.

Offline Alliance

Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #621 on: June 22, 2013, 10:30:19 AM »
How modern an idea set is he trying to push for? Full out democracy? Because.. that's not likely to fly in Taldor really, if he has Andoran style democratic sympathies, he'd have to try and keep those to himself.

Well all though he does, have an Andoran view at times. He isn't trying to push that far into democracy. Because he even states himself, "The world isn't ready for something as far into the future. All that I do propose is one political step towards a future."

So he's more leading the stepping stones. Not full out democracy. He's leading the stepping stones.

What concerns me is that a call for a more democratic society would weaken his House's position, since his own status as one of the Royal Houses and the status of those around him is fully inherited.  He might gain some significant support from the unbearded, which is significant, but it would come with the antagonism of his fellow Royal Houses, which hold considerable power. 

I am unsure how the senatorial families would feel.  Kol, help me out with this one.  In fact, would it make more sense for him to be from one of the senatorial Houses?  I think that might give him a bit more freedom.

As stated he doesn't believe in democracy.

He believes in leading steps towards a better political future. Whether that be democratic or not. All he wants is a more refined political standpoint.

Offline kckolbe

Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #622 on: June 22, 2013, 10:35:14 AM »
Too vague.  I give up.

Offline KolbrandrTopic starter

Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #623 on: June 22, 2013, 11:08:12 AM »
Well all though he does, have an Andoran view at times. He isn't trying to push that far into democracy. Because he even states himself, "The world isn't ready for something as far into the future. All that I do propose is one political step towards a future."

So he's more leading the stepping stones. Not full out democracy. He's leading the stepping stones.

As stated he doesn't believe in democracy.

He believes in leading steps towards a better political future. Whether that be democratic or not. All he wants is a more refined political standpoint.


Alright, a scion of the aristocracy wanting sweeping reforms in his society is not an impossible concept (and historically after all, such types have existed and pursued such things even at the expense of their own power), it just means that in pursuing them somewhere like Taldor requires some measures of subtlety and nuance as the more outspoken you go, the more enmity you are going to have from people who like the way society works just fine. Particularly, the more you openly sympathize with Andoran, former Taldan vassal state, the more you might find yourself in troubles your dad might have to bail you out of.

It's enough to hang a full concept on at least, but when fleshing it out, there are things to bear in mind. Amongst them, give the first post of the thread a decent eyeballing, it has important links that flesh out the setting and otherwise provides a good capsule of what the game is trucking in.

Beyond that, you'll also want to get into stuff like..

What is the history of your family? Were they elevated to the royal caste by the Grand Prince? Are they one of the truly ancient founding families? How long have they existed otherwise? What is their resource base like and what do they otherwise focus on? What kind of class levels does your character have and why? Are you trying to advocate for change publically? Secretly? Both? Do you have any kinds of ties to Andoran?

Offline Phaia

Re: Recruiting: high scale Pathfinder, Taldor, aka Byzantium focused
« Reply #624 on: June 22, 2013, 11:20:05 AM »
Alliance here is an idea for ya that fits in with reforming the government...a crusade to deal with the bloated and crazy quilt bureaucracy

Lets take a look at a bureau that could use some reform... The Bureau of Rat Catchers-Oppara... now one would think a Bureau set up to pay rat catchers for every rat killed would be very useful to the city--Lets look at the Bureau... it has 48 memebrs [all belonging to just two families] each is paid at least 2 gp a week and the Bureau heads [there are 19 of them] gets 20gp.. they have a weekly budget of 150 gp...and buildings through out the city to use as offices and other purposes [all paid for by the government]

The first question of course is exactly how many certified rat killers are there in Oppara--- officillay why they are to numerous to give an exact number without consulting the rolls--unoffically -- 0
How much of the gold is paid out each week for the killing of rats-- 150Gp and the Bureau has been asking for a large increase from the senate
Those buildings--- why just because each is a nice residient in a lovely section of the city means nothing-- the Bureau heads have to be well rested and accessable

the way I read the bureauicy of Oppara and Taldor it is probally even worst then I describe...heck there can be a  bureau of rat catchers for each city [of course the main office heads are all in oppara] a cursader going after silly stuff like this would kick open a huge can of worms...and could easy get support from some nobles after showing how much gold is wasted and stolen [after all why let some unbreaded get the gold when the noble can skim it off instead]

I hope this helps

Phaia
« Last Edit: June 22, 2013, 11:22:47 AM by Phaia »