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Author Topic: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming  (Read 16852 times)

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Offline MoralineTopic starter

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #575 on: July 19, 2013, 01:08:22 PM »
Happily. This is official, as I said, and is found with a quick google search. Half a minute of research debunks nearly every claim flying around the internet.
Thank you for the reference/source. As for Googling - I'm not the one that posted the quotes the onus is on the quoter to supply the link. Just saying.

Quote
Well, I have a cited source above stating that everything you're pinning on the system is either skewed or 100% false. It has been explicitly stated, by Microsoft, that data will not leave the system without consent. That the Kinect is both able to be turned off completely and that it can be suspended while the system is on. I honestly do not know what more you need. A blood oath?
The fact is that whether there is an option to turn it off or not, the capability still exists for them to use it. Also through the patent, MS is offering it up as a possibility for a government agency to use video/recorded stuff off of my home entertainment (XBOne). That's a violation of peoples rights. We already know that the government is spying on everyone - it's all over the damn news.

That's the entire basis for everything I've said. It's not about whether they are going to do it, it's about giving them the tools to do it with. So, I don't choose to allow the possibility to exist in my home. Why should I? Especially since I'm not even an American citizen, those damn American government agencies can keep their spy shit to themselves and stay out of my business.
(And they wonder why other countries hate them so much? Duh!!)

Absolutely nothing has been proven false by any of your quotes or the article links. All you've shown is that MS "doesn't plan" on doing it. The capability still exists and the consumer has little control over it other then choosing to NOT buy the XBOne(spy machine).

You might have proven some of the others wrong when they said that if the kinect is off that the games don't work but I never said that. So that is irrelevant to me.

Quote
Again, subjective. Based on personal whim. And not the subject of the discussion. If you don't want the kinect, that's your business, but it has nothing to do with the "spying" claims that I am arguing against. Frankly, if we're offering opinions on the matter, I think that the price of less than two games isn't really enough to make me say the "deck is stacked against them." Although numbers haven't been released, I would say the fact that both consoles are sold out of preorders indicates that the decks are pretty even.
Price is a big deal because the system is roughly 25% more expensive then it's competitor the PS4. And $100 in my home will buy me approximately 5 used games currently.

Everything said is the subject of discussion because this thread is called "Xbox One Vs PS4". So anything that differentiates the two systems is fair game for discussion.

Also you made a reference again to something that you have didn't source for. Please cite your source for "preoders indicate that the decks are pretty even."

The only information I have so far on preorders is from the largest retailer on the internet, Amazon, and you'll find my earlier posts I've already shown where PS4 is by far out selling the XBOne. So let's see a source for your stats please.

As for selling out of consoles.. where did you get that from?
Click here if you'd like to order an XBOne today:  http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-One-Console--Standard-Edition/dp/B00CMQTVMI/ref=sr_tr_sr_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374256950&sr=8-1&keywords=xbox+one

Nope, I don't see any "sold outs."

Quote
In all honesty, I have no idea why you're offering bias to one system or the other to begin with, when you can have both. Yes, I understand money is a factor. But competition is great for us as a consumer, and trying to brush the XBone off as "creepy" (when you're clearly wrong) and whatever else you might say is silly.

Why am I offering bias?  I'll refer you back to the name of the thread again = "Xbox One Vs PS4".  That's the entire point of this thread. I created this thread for the purpose of discussing the differences between the consoles and Next Gen in general. I thought the obvious title would make the reasoning for choosing one system over another extremely clear.

I understand that you don't think it's creepy to have a device in your house that has the potential to spy on you. However, I do think it is creepy to know that a company fully admits to having the ability to spy on you. Just because they give you an option to turn it off and they say they are not going to go give your info to the Feds, doesn't make it less creepy. (By the way, that's American feds, not my feds - because like Chris, I'm Canadian). 



...And then you go on to say that whatever else I might say is silly. Not cool man, really not cool. You're as bad as that other guy that posted and tried to make everyone that had a dissenting opinion sound like hillbillies.

Dude people might be sheeple but your the one defending a multi-billion dollar mega-corp. I think a voice of dissent against features in a system that they are uncomfortable with is a justified reaction. Whether the messages are occasionally extreme or not does not make the route cause less valid. You've proven nothing accept that MS is trying to make themselves look like they aren't going to do it.... "We promise we won't do it... really we do."



Offline Chris Brady

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #576 on: July 19, 2013, 01:32:08 PM »
Dude people might be sheeple but your the one defending a multi-billion dollar mega-corp.

I'm going to single this line out, and perhaps out of context, but I don't see why this matters.  Every person, who has a job, wants to make money.  Every company has employees it needs to pay, bills and the like as well.  That it's making more money than I is no excuse to pick on it.  There is no 'The Man'.  There never was one, and it's an excuse to gang up on something because it's not like you.

NOW.  That said, if I'm going to get upset about something, rightly or wrongly, I'm going to be so by what it did or does.  And so far, Microsoft is currently out of touch with it's player base, so much so that the new 'president' of the development of the console ISN'T actually part of the XBox division.  There no longer is a Gaming Division, let alone an XBox focus.  Julie Larson-Green is the new head of Microsoft's Devices and Studios Engineering Group, overseeing all Xbox development.  Link:  http://www.gamespot.com/news/julie-larson-green-confirmed-as-new-xbox-boss-in-microsoft-restructuring-6411301

Someone in MS saw that XB 360 success and obviously wanted to merge it with all their other, and sadly failed, attempts at consumer devices.  This is what I'm 'upset' about.

Yes, I understand that you found more people used the 360 as an entertainment unit rather than a gaming unit, but you're forgetting a few key things.  First, what do you think that your consumers originally bought the 360 for?  I would hazard a guess for Gaming.  And the second issue, in the last four years, you've not had many games worth buying, outside of key franchises that were repeated, so people might (and I stress that word there) might have felt that all their 360 was good for was an Entertainment machine, hoping for a game they're interested it.  This second bit is pure speculation, but the first?  I'm pretty sure that's what people wanted the 360 for, and they got some pretty good games.  At the start.

Offline MoralineTopic starter

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #577 on: July 19, 2013, 01:46:02 PM »
I'm going to single this line out, and perhaps out of context, but I don't see why this matters.  Every person, who has a job, wants to make money.  Every company has employees it needs to pay, bills and the like as well.  That it's making more money than I is no excuse to pick on it.  There is no 'The Man'.  There never was one, and it's an excuse to gang up on something because it's not like you.

...
You're funny. Did you really need to do that? ...Okay I'll bite.

Defending a greedy Mega-corp that will do anything for money instead of average consumers expressing dissent is ludicrous in my eyes. Being the defender of the mega-corps popular pet brand is as much sheeple tactic as any mass voice of dissent on the internet. Which was what he was so passionately railing against. In one breath he'd say he's not a fan-boy then in the next defend the company like it would never possibly lie, cheat, or try to rob it's consumers.

He is buying into the company marketing. He's sheeple too.

Hope I explained that clearly.


Offline Inkidu

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Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #578 on: July 19, 2013, 01:53:49 PM »
Well, I don't defend megacorps, greedy or otherwise. They've got whole legions of lawyers for that, and they're not going to need little old me to defend them. However, I'm not naive enough to think that I'm not funding some kind of megacorp with my purchase, whether that's an XBone, PS4, WiiU, or PC. In fact, with disposable income on the horizon I'm probably going to get more than one this time around.

The truth is that the XBone 180 has made it more palatable to me as a consumer, regardless of spying camera or not (I hardly think it is going to be so. I mean who has Windows? Don't you think they're spying through that, so Apple so pick your poison). There are some exclusives Microsoft has for the Xbone, but I am going to watch how things shake out.

The PS4 is probably going to be my first round pick. Though honestly, I've never really cared for their exclusives.

Offline Skyguy

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #579 on: July 19, 2013, 02:31:18 PM »
So long as console "exclusives" keep being "ONLY ON [Insert Console Here]!!! And on PC" I'm a happy member of the master race.

Offline MoralineTopic starter

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #580 on: July 19, 2013, 02:37:21 PM »
So long as console "exclusives" keep being "ONLY ON [Insert Console Here]!!! And on PC" I'm a happy member of the master race.
You are 100% right.. that's the best argument all day.

To be totally up front, I haven't preordered a console yet. I'm not even sure if I'll bother. I basically have my 360 just so friends can use it when they come over. We usually don't even do that anymore.

I do however always NEED a computer. I might as well spend a few hundred extra on my next computer purchase instead of a console. Just take what I'd normally spend, add the few hundred I save from not buying a console and I have one awesome PC to do everything on.

Offline Slywyn

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #581 on: July 19, 2013, 02:50:40 PM »
I actually just bought a new computer so I think I'm going to stick with it for the next few years or so. Maybe buy a PS4 if I end up having the money once they inevitably go on sale.

Offline Skyguy

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #582 on: July 19, 2013, 02:54:07 PM »
I don't really see the point in consoles with this generation, XBone especially. The benefit of consoles used to be you just put the disk in and play. No install, no waiting, nothing. Just pop the cartridge/disk in and go. Now you've got installs, patches, DRM, all the bullshit you get with a computer only it's not a computer, and the games aren't as cheap, and the hardware is meh, and you've got no ability to mod, or multitask, and forget the indie scene...  Basically you've still got the shortcomings of a console now married to the bullshit only PC gamers used to have to put up with and none of the benefits so what's the point now.

With so many "exclusives" no going on PC the only real thing keeping the consoles edge is uhh.... I have no idea what. Unless your home computer is utter crap the $500 you'd spend on a console should be more than enough to get a very nice graphics card, another 4GB of RAM and still have enough left over to go fucking nuts on the Steam Summer Sale.

Quote
I actually just bought a new computer so I think I'm going to stick with it for the next few years or so. Maybe buy a PS4 if I end up having the money once they inevitably go on sale.
If you're going to buy one you're better off waiting. Give them time to find bugs in the hardware and fix them, come out with the version of the console you actually want (500GB hard drive when you require installs? Are you fucking kidding me MS?), things go on sale, and the library has bulked up.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2013, 02:56:47 PM by Skyguy »

Offline Slywyn

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #583 on: July 19, 2013, 03:01:37 PM »
That's actually another reason I don't have a problem waiting to buy one.

Also you can mod on the PC. I can't even see how anyone plays Skyrim on console. It sucks.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #584 on: July 19, 2013, 03:17:24 PM »
That's actually another reason I don't have a problem waiting to buy one.

Also you can mod on the PC. I can't even see how anyone plays Skyrim on console. It sucks.
*Plays Skyrim on console all the time, doesn't think it sucks, even though he sees mods do increase longevity for some people*

More to topic. Yeah, I'll probably go PC this generation and pick up a PS4 later, and maybe if I absolutely want it an XBone.

And boy do I hate the "master race" joke. Really, really hate it. :|

Offline Slywyn

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #585 on: July 19, 2013, 04:22:11 PM »
I literally cannot play Skyrim on the console. "Where's my better combat? Where's my better graphics? Better followers? More craftables? Better armor? Balanced armor? More enemies?"

It's just so bland in it's base version. xD

Offline Falanor

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #586 on: July 20, 2013, 12:19:02 AM »
I literally cannot play Skyrim on the console. "Where's my better combat? Where's my better graphics? Better followers? More craftables? Better armor? Balanced armor? More enemies?"

It's just so bland in it's base version. xD

I'm fine with playing it on my console or my CPU.  As long as I can keep playing using my controller I'm good...

Offline Slywyn

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #587 on: July 20, 2013, 01:30:04 AM »
I've been spoiled by mods.

Offline Koren

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #588 on: July 20, 2013, 01:53:27 AM »
Happily. This is official, as I said, and is found with a quick google search. Half a minute of research debunks nearly every claim flying around the internet.

If by reactionary you mean that I am reacting to your points, then yes? Passionate? Yes, I firmly believe in what I'm saying. Maybe you missed part of my post.

That is the basis for my claims of reactionary. My opposing your views is one thing. Views formed based on what I mentioned above is another. This is illustrated clearly by googling "Kinect 2 Privacy" and clicking on the very first link.

Well, I have a cited source above stating that everything you're pinning on the system is either skewed or 100% false. It has been explicitly stated, by Microsoft, that data will not leave the system without consent. That the Kinect is both able to be turned off completely and that it can be suspended while the system is on. I honestly do not know what more you need. A blood oath?

100% subjective. I won't bother trying to change your opinion of "creepiness" of one company over another. Even if Microsoft has stated themselves that the "creep" factor you're claiming is inaccurate or untrue. It's good to know, though, that you make purchases of hundreds of dollars based on creep factor.

Again, subjective. Based on personal whim. And not the subject of the discussion. If you don't want the kinect, that's your business, but it has nothing to do with the "spying" claims that I am arguing against. Frankly, if we're offering opinions on the matter, I think that the price of less than two games isn't really enough to make me say the "deck is stacked against them." Although numbers haven't been released, I would say the fact that both consoles are sold out of preorders indicates that the decks are pretty even.

In all honesty, I have no idea why you're offering bias to one system or the other to begin with, when you can have both. Yes, I understand money is a factor. But competition is great for us as a consumer, and trying to brush the XBone off as "creepy" (when you're clearly wrong) and whatever else you might say is silly.


Look I think the argument with the Kinect comes down to this

Its not whether or not microsoft says it will be like this, its the possibility for it to be something different

They say that you can turn off the feature for it to be listening to "Xbox On" but they haven't said if that will completely disable the microphone or just stop it from actively responding to commands like that. And they refuse to elaborate as well. If their idea of 'off' is 'listening' then its not really off and it throws doubt onto other idea.
It doesn't matter if they've said that they won't supply data to other places, the fact that they will have data like my heart rate at all in the first place is enough for me to be a little creeped out, and just because they say they won't supply the data, doesn't mean it can't be accessed in other ways, legally or illegally. Imagine all the data on people all around the world the kinect 2 will gather with a hack like Sony went through. THAT would be horrible.

So can you please stop treating us like we're all idiots or conspiracy theorists and start acting like maybe we actually have a reason for saying what we do. Its starting to get really frustrating and you're really being quite rude and you're demeaning us for our opinions by saying that we're always wrong based on someone else's say so.

There's a difference between marketing and actuality, and if even the marketing is in doubt, I'd say that makes the actual applications of it far less secure. Just because a company says something does not make it true at all. Especially not with big companies like this. They say what they think will be the best for them, doesn't mean that they have the provisions in place for it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Honestly I don't know how they messed with the console ports of Skyrim as much as they did. Me and a couple of programmers sat down and tried to figure it out and just flat out couldn't unless they tried to completely revamp everything. It was horribly amusing. XD

As far as mods, I suppose that's a reason as well for why I'm primarily a console person, I really couldn't give a shit about them. I don't even play modded minecraft. I will play maps and on servers, but I don't play modded. And a lot of games that I play don't really fit for mods anyway, even if I did have the PC copies. I prefer playing community built levels over community built mechanics into the existing stuff if that makes sense.

You know what, i'd really love to see some of the TRLE levels go up on console or something through square enix and online stores. That would be amazing.

Offline Slywyn

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #589 on: July 20, 2013, 08:42:48 AM »
There's actually a few complete overhauls for Skyrim on the nexus-site, and I think one of them is actually skyrim completely rebuilt from the ground up.

Offline Kuje

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #590 on: July 24, 2013, 10:36:30 PM »
More reversals from Microsoft. I'm not sure how I feel about this since I don't really play indie games but hey, it's good news for them at least.

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/07/24/microsoft-confirms-self-publishing-for-xbox-one/

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #591 on: July 25, 2013, 12:45:19 AM »
I'm honest not entirely sure how to feel about that.

On one hand, it's nice that they've realized just how jerkish they were sounding back at their reveal and their E3 presser.

The other hand is wondering if they flip-flopped so easily, how can we trust them to stick to their new guns?

Offline Koren

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #592 on: July 25, 2013, 03:08:02 AM »
I really don't trust them to stick to anything that they say to be honest. I dont think they'll try bullshit and enforce DRM again, but some of their other policies are still a bit too sketchy

Also they say self publishing but I'd really like some more details on that. Its easy to say but if the actual process makes it expensive or nigh impossible, or if they treat indies like shit still like they have in the past, it may not mean much in the long run

Offline SinXAzgard21

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #593 on: July 25, 2013, 04:22:02 AM »
So what, MS isn't going to charge for each patch now like originally planned?

Offline Koren

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #594 on: July 25, 2013, 05:14:54 AM »
Originally they had announced that they had redcued the price of patching, which was originally at $10,000 which is bullshit, and they removed the cost of patching fro Xbox 360 games, but havent announced if that extended to Xbox One when it is released

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #595 on: July 25, 2013, 06:28:41 AM »
Honestly, I think it might be a good thing to have a substantial fee to patch a game through a plotform. The proceeds would go directly to say support the game's servers. I think making patching a noticeably costly process would encourage a more refined product and more meaningful patching. I'm personally sick of this ship-now-patch-later mentality. :|

Offline Koren

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #596 on: July 25, 2013, 07:10:32 AM »
I understand it from that perspective but in the case of a game Fez, he got one free patch which he used, but that patch caused a bug, and no way could he as an indie developer pay 10,000 to be able to patch it again.

And also as well, in a lot of cases, those fees arent being used for servers for those games etc, and even in games that do have multiplayer, its not through servers hosted by microsoft, which is where the issues come in.

Personally as well from a development perspective, having things like patches actually keeps more people in jobs because while the development team can move onto something else that still needs to be implemented, another team can work on refining it and patch it to make it work, which allows for not only more content in games but for people to keep their jobs longer.

Its also unfair for the developers to have to pay a standard fee to patch a game for  bug that they never could have possibly predicted due to something outside of their control in the first place. Especially if its caused by something the publisher did etc.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #597 on: July 25, 2013, 07:33:17 AM »
Yeah, and I agree that 10K is a bit usurious. I definitely think a flat fee would not be good. 

Offline SinXAzgard21

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #598 on: August 25, 2013, 02:51:07 AM »
November 15th is the release date for PS4.

Offline Formless

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #599 on: October 05, 2013, 05:49:30 PM »
Its funny how some games will provide the ' supposedly ' same experience on both current gen consoles and next gen consoles.

I feel I'm ripped off already. Now with Call of Duty almost released , I don't even know which console I'll stick with. ( PS guy here. I never even consider Xbox. )