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Author Topic: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming  (Read 16853 times)

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Offline SinXAzgard21

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #475 on: June 19, 2013, 09:55:05 PM »
If I'm buying a 60 dollar game, it is going to be in my hand and OWNED BY ME.

Offline ShadowFox89

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #476 on: June 19, 2013, 09:58:16 PM »
If I'm buying a 60 dollar game, it is going to be in my hand and OWNED BY ME.

 Exactly. Which is why I'm not buying from Blizzard again, because you only lease their games.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #477 on: June 19, 2013, 10:10:08 PM »
Exactly. Which is why I'm not buying from Blizzard again, because you only lease their games.
That's any PC game. Computer games use the same draconian EULA they've used since time immemorial. You don't own computer games, you lease them. Blizzard doesn't even do consoles for this reason I'm sure. Why have them own it when you can have them lease it?

Offline Slywyn

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #478 on: June 19, 2013, 10:16:47 PM »
Absurdity. Retailers were already running dry on Xbone pre-order allotments.

As far as the price, given the kinect being bundled in, it's fine where it is.

1) In my area, the Xbone had 8 preorder spots. The PS4 had 40. The PS4 spots were almost completely full, and the 8 xbone slots still had 2 open. They're 'selling out' of shortchanged preorders. That way they can report that they're 'selling out' even though their sales are pitiful right now.

A consumer poll was done- 95% of respondents said they were going to buy a PS4 first/only/etc.

2) The Kinect is a piece of crap. Maybe they improved it- and I doubt that they have- but even if they did, a lot of games don't and won't use it, other than maybe voice commands, because most people who play a lot of games hate the damn thing because the detection is awful. Charging an extra $100 for something that barely works is not 'worth it'.

Offline SinXAzgard21

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #479 on: June 19, 2013, 11:06:47 PM »
Well for those who want titanfall and do not wand a Xboned, it is confirmed for 360 as well.

Offline Sex Bobomb

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #480 on: June 20, 2013, 07:09:13 AM »
1) In my area, the Xbone had 8 preorder spots. The PS4 had 40. The PS4 spots were almost completely full, and the 8 xbone slots still had 2 open. They're 'selling out' of shortchanged preorders. That way they can report that they're 'selling out' even though their sales are pitiful right now.

A consumer poll was done- 95% of respondents said they were going to buy a PS4 first/only/etc.

2) The Kinect is a piece of crap. Maybe they improved it- and I doubt that they have- but even if they did, a lot of games don't and won't use it, other than maybe voice commands, because most people who play a lot of games hate the damn thing because the detection is awful. Charging an extra $100 for something that barely works is not 'worth it'.

If by consumer poll, you're referring to the Amazon poll, yes, I'm aware of it. It was weighted heavily by the angry internet mob mentality and is unlikely to be an accurate representation of what the actual outcome would have been. It's the same reason EA keeps winning Worst Company in America over much worse companies. Internet mob mentality. But this point is all together moot now as the poll was taking before the policy reversal.

As far as the kinect goes, a majority of the articles state there is a vast improvement on this version of the kinect.* The reason there wasn't a lot of support for it is precisely because it wasn't included in system bundles. That's why online multiplayer on PS3 had almost no one chatting, because a headset wasn't included. The increased fidelity combined with the inclusion of kinect in every system will mean you're going to start seeing a lot more support for it.

*Source: http://gizmodo.com/kinect-2-full-video-walkthrough-the-xbox-sees-you-like-509155673

Offline Koren

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #481 on: June 20, 2013, 08:40:54 AM »
About the microsoft backtrack, its actually made me loose MORE respect for them

They claim its because of gamer feedback, thats not the case at all
Almost every gamer has been complaining bitterly about the xbox one since may, when it was revealed. On a myriad of issues. Did they do anything? no.
When did they do something? when they started loosing money on pre-orders

Aka they didn't listen to consumers, they listened to their wallets and the whole time they've been treating us like we are idiots for wanting what they do, and they still do.
for example they said you now need to have the disc in the drive, cool, but they haven't said you don't need to install the entire game to the hard drive, so the hard drive is still going to fill up just as fast.
One of the main concerns is kinect which they still refuse to address at all, the privacy concerns etc.

They arent doing much really in my mine to chance my opinion of them


also, damn sony for not selling the camera with the console which is needed for the controller lights function to work. bastards. although if it wont be needed for every game thats cool and at least you can turn it off.


and with kinect, as much as i hate it as a console requirement, the fact it allows people to do cheap mo-cap, is pretty damn awesome
« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 08:42:40 AM by Koren »

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #482 on: June 20, 2013, 08:59:05 AM »
About the microsoft backtrack, its actually made me loose MORE respect for them

They claim its because of gamer feedback, thats not the case at all
Almost every gamer has been complaining bitterly about the xbox one since may, when it was revealed. On a myriad of issues. Did they do anything? no.
When did they do something? when they started loosing money on pre-orders

Aka they didn't listen to consumers, they listened to their wallets and the whole time they've been treating us like we are idiots for wanting what they do, and they still do.
for example they said you now need to have the disc in the drive, cool, but they haven't said you don't need to install the entire game to the hard drive, so the hard drive is still going to fill up just as fast.
One of the main concerns is kinect which they still refuse to address at all, the privacy concerns etc.

They arent doing much really in my mine to chance my opinion of them


also, damn sony for not selling the camera with the console which is needed for the controller lights function to work. bastards. although if it wont be needed for every game thats cool and at least you can turn it off.


and with kinect, as much as i hate it as a console requirement, the fact it allows people to do cheap mo-cap, is pretty damn awesome
Uh... well talking with your wallet is consumer opinion.

Anyone can complain and say anything they want, no matter how good or bad, but actually giving your words teeth requires you to speak with your money. Think about it. If everybody complains about something but buys it anyway wouldn't the words ring kind of hollow? So I don't really hold it against Microsoft for changing their tack, but I am not letting them off easy lest they forget. I'll probably get a PS4 or PC anyway just because the former is cheaper and the latter would be my baby. :\

Offline Sex Bobomb

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #483 on: June 20, 2013, 09:10:50 AM »
About the microsoft backtrack, its actually made me loose MORE respect for them

They claim its because of gamer feedback, thats not the case at all
Almost every gamer has been complaining bitterly about the xbox one since may, when it was revealed. On a myriad of issues. Did they do anything? no.
When did they do something? when they started loosing money on pre-orders

Aka they didn't listen to consumers, they listened to their wallets and the whole time they've been treating us like we are idiots for wanting what they do, and they still do.
for example they said you now need to have the disc in the drive, cool, but they haven't said you don't need to install the entire game to the hard drive, so the hard drive is still going to fill up just as fast.
One of the main concerns is kinect which they still refuse to address at all, the privacy concerns etc.

They arent doing much really in my mine to chance my opinion of them


also, damn sony for not selling the camera with the console which is needed for the controller lights function to work. bastards. although if it wont be needed for every game thats cool and at least you can turn it off.


and with kinect, as much as i hate it as a console requirement, the fact it allows people to do cheap mo-cap, is pretty damn awesome

I don't understand the complains that Microsoft back tracked based on business practices. Do you guys all honestly think that Sony is some white knight who is doing nothing but giving the gamers what they want? The price point, the lack of DRM - All of it were decisions made, in a board room, to make more money. It is shocking that so many people are buying in to the PR over at Sony just because you are getting what you want. Sony is a business, just like Microsoft. The decisions they make are based on business. While I agree that Microsoft has had a shitty attitude through this whole thing and were by in largely speaking with contempt toward their customers, we all need to stop pretending like Sony is some company from on high sent to save gaming as we know it.



Look folks, I get it. Microsoft has had a crappy attitude with its customers. I'm not even saying I disagree that PS4 may be the superior option here. What I am saying is that these ridiculous conclusions that folks are reaching about Xbone before it even launches without having done much, if any, research is insulting to gamers every where.

- Kinect is not a spy device. Microsoft has explicitly stated that the camera and microphone can be turned off. In fact, now that the system doesn't require an internet connection, people should probably just take a deep breath and relax.

- DRM is the future, along with digital purchase. Microsoft was simply trying to usher that future in. For a vast majority of people, a ping to a server once every 24 hours is a non-issue. But the internet reacted based on principle and people lost their damn minds about it. Steam DRM is actually worse than what Microsoft had implemented, and no one is freaking out about that. The cool progressive stuff that DRM allowed is now a thing of the past, digital game sharing, cloud libraries, etc. The problem is Microsoft failed at explaining the stuff to the public. I get the appeal of physical property in principle. People like having something tangible that they can hold on to and call their own. But clinging to that model while the digital future is being decided without you is a bad move. If you folks really want to make sure you own your stuff in the future, focus on digital rights, not physical medium.

- Yes, Xbox One is $100 more expensive. It also comes with kinect. It also comes with TV functionality (One could argue the usefulness of those features, but they are in the system regardless of that). It's up to Microsoft to explain why the system with worth more money, but let's stop pretending like the price point is going to make or break these systems, because it won't.

All in all, I'd say Sony still has the upper hand here. But let's keep our perspectives in check. Sony is not some angelic gaming presence. Microsoft is not the Harbinger of Doom. Both systems look amazing and have amazing games coming to them.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #484 on: June 20, 2013, 09:13:52 AM »
I don't understand the complains that Microsoft back tracked based on business practices. Do you guys all honestly think that Sony is some white knight who is doing nothing but giving the gamers what they want? The price point, the lack of DRM - All of it were decisions made, in a board room, to make more money. It is shocking that so many people are buying in to the PR over at Sony just because you are getting what you want. Sony is a business, just like Microsoft. The decisions they make are based on business. While I agree that Microsoft has had a shitty attitude through this whole thing and were by in largely speaking with contempt toward their customers, we all need to stop pretending like Sony is some company from on high sent to save gaming as we know it.
Hey if they can make more money and give me what I want, more power to them I say. :)

Offline Koren

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #485 on: June 20, 2013, 10:18:18 AM »
I'm not saying Sony is a godly company. Sony fucked up big time at the start with ps3 and they know it and are fixing it now. And if you look at e3, sony perhaps are bigger assholes then microsoft because they ruthlessly teased Microsoft about their business things. Sony isnt here to save gaming, but it is at least acting with respect towards its consumer base.
but Sony doesn't treat their consumers like crap, and Sony i see has marginally less lies over all.

I'm all for letting companies make their money, i don't appreciate them stepping on people to do it though, and not like how microsoft is doing.

Quote
- Kinect is not a spy device. Microsoft has explicitly stated that the camera and microphone can be turned off. In fact, now that the system doesn't require an internet connection, people should probably just take a deep breath and relax.

Microsoft has a variety of patents out specifically aimed using the kinect to record data on you, link it to all the other info it has about you and use that to target you for games, adverts and even just general info gathering.
Their form of it being turned off is as they said it "it will only be listening for xbox on". It can only do that if its litterally listening for everything else as well and will only react to xbox on. Also you have to have it on and active while gaming and watching movies which means it is recording you etc.

As for DRM, yes cool fine, i agree with the principle, but the way they implemented it meant that money would go the publishers, not the developers where it belongs, and also it was aimed away from fair usage. aka not being able to share with strangers, and that crap with it checking to see if you have enough 'allowed viewers' for a movie

And price can break a console. It almost did with the ps3 before they cut the price, Sony was going into massive loss even more so. It wont win or break it over all, but its a start.
Also the TV functionality is only in America, and everywhere else it needs ANOTHER device to work anyway which is more money. You may also have to have subscriptions for them which is more money again. And on top of that if people just want a gaming system, they are then paying for TV stuff they wont use

I'm not saying Sony are gods, all I'm saying is Microsoft treat people poorly, and are trying to make themselves look better by doing so. I'm not buying into PR, i make my own decisions, and my decisions are based on what i see as poor business practices in ignoring your market until its convenient

Offline Slywyn

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #486 on: June 20, 2013, 10:22:37 AM »
I was actually about to post that Koren. The Kinect spies on you, and there is no way you can look around that unless you're in denial about it.

Offline Sex Bobomb

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #487 on: June 20, 2013, 11:40:18 AM »
Quote
Microsoft has a variety of patents out specifically aimed using the kinect to record data on you, link it to all the other info it has about you and use that to target you for games, adverts and even just general info gathering.
Their form of it being turned off is as they said it "it will only be listening for xbox on". It can only do that if its litterally listening for everything else as well and will only react to xbox on. Also you have to have it on and active while gaming and watching movies which means it is recording you etc.

Patents are filed all the time without intent to use them. I have seen no indication that kinect actually "records" you during gameplay and video watching. It would be no more active in that respect that a webcam you have plugged in to your system. Not to mention, the day this thing drops you know there's going to be someone out there running a packet sniffer on this thing to see exactly what it's sending back. So I guess we'll see if there's some egregious broach of privacy. But let's keep it realistic here. There isn't some skynet stuff.

Quote
As for DRM, yes cool fine, i agree with the principle, but the way they implemented it meant that money would go the publishers, not the developers where it belongs, and also it was aimed away from fair usage. aka not being able to share with strangers, and that crap with it checking to see if you have enough 'allowed viewers' for a movie

Money to the publishers? You're aware that's already a thing right? DRM doesn't suddenly mean the publishers rewrite their contracts with developers. In fact, developers would get more money due to increased sales. Come on...

Quote
And price can break a console. It almost did with the ps3 before they cut the price, Sony was going into massive loss even more so. It wont win or break it over all, but its a start.
Also the TV functionality is only in America, and everywhere else it needs ANOTHER device to work anyway which is more money. You may also have to have subscriptions for them which is more money again. And on top of that if people just want a gaming system, they are then paying for TV stuff they wont use

Again, the PS3 is a bad comparison as it did not come with any additional functionality versus the 360 like the Xbox One does. I explicitly stated that I was not arguing how useful the additional functionality was, but how it was a rationalization for the increased price. PS3, you paid more money for the same system. Xbone, you pay more (arguably too much) for more functionality.

Offline Slywyn

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #488 on: June 20, 2013, 11:42:36 AM »
You're paying more for a subpar system + a kinect(Which many people hate and for good reason).

Vs paying less for a console that is more powerful, doesn't have all this microsoft nonsense attached, and doesn't come with a potential spycam.

Offline ShadowFox89

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #489 on: June 20, 2013, 11:44:12 AM »
Patents are filed all the time without intent to use them. I have seen no indication that kinect actually "records" you during gameplay and video watching. It would be no more active in that respect that a webcam you have plugged in to your system. Not to mention, the day this thing drops you know there's going to be someone out there running a packet sniffer on this thing to see exactly what it's sending back. So I guess we'll see if there's some egregious broach of privacy. But let's keep it realistic here. There isn't some skynet stuff.

 What sort of proof do you want? A youtube video of you dancing in your skivvies that someone put up by hacking your kinect?

Offline SinXAzgard21

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #490 on: June 20, 2013, 11:54:36 AM »
Going back to the Xbox one is like moving back in with an abusive parent, they may be sorry now, but they'll likely beat you're ass up again later down the line.

Offline Sex Bobomb

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #491 on: June 20, 2013, 11:59:24 AM »
You're paying more for a subpar system + a kinect(Which many people hate and for good reason).

Vs paying less for a console that is more powerful, doesn't have all this microsoft nonsense attached, and doesn't come with a potential spycam.

Purely anecdotal and subjective.

What sort of proof do you want? A youtube video of you dancing in your skivvies that someone put up by hacking your kinect?

Going back to the Xbox one is like moving back in with an abusive parent, they may be sorry now, but they'll likely beat you're ass up again later down the line.

Sensationalist.

My intention isn't to change anyone's minds. It's to get you all to stop acting like the Xbone is some doomsday device. I sincerely hope you all enjoy whatever system you get, but the Xbone isn't some horrible pandora's box of terrible things and malicious intent. Stop it already.

Offline ShadowFox89

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #492 on: June 20, 2013, 12:02:30 PM »
 It's a step in the wrong direction. A step towards more control over what you have purchased and what should rightfully be yours.

Offline Sex Bobomb

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #493 on: June 20, 2013, 12:05:38 PM »
Except that it was going to allow you to share your digital games with 10 other people. Something that PS4 and Steam do not have. As it stands now, you're required to have a disc in your tray to play a game. Which one is more free to you?

Offline ShadowFox89

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #494 on: June 20, 2013, 12:07:06 PM »
 Nope, they just have the ability to play your games offline. I would rather have that and encourage my friends and family to buy their own copies, or buy copies for the, than have to worry about being screwed if the Live servers go down.

Offline SinXAzgard21

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #495 on: June 20, 2013, 12:12:03 PM »
Sensationalist.

My intention isn't to change anyone's minds. It's to get you all to stop acting like the Xbone is some doomsday device. I sincerely hope you all enjoy whatever system you get, but the Xbone isn't some horrible pandora's box of terrible things and malicious intent. Stop it already.

It wont stop.  MS fucked up, gave a shit business model and then had to back pedal because they knew they fucked up.  Why support a system that tried to fuck you over.  I mean of course all the fanboys just ate it up.  I'm going to end this here, as you'll have some retort defending MS.  We can tell you're and MS fan/supporter/enthusiast, so what ever we say will have not effect.

For those who want to see the specs of the systems, here is a link.

http://www.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/PS4_vs._Xbox_One_vs._Wii_U_Comparison_Chart

Offline Sex Bobomb

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #496 on: June 20, 2013, 12:17:03 PM »
Nope, they just have the ability to play your games offline. I would rather have that and encourage my friends and family to buy their own copies, or buy copies for the, than have to worry about being screwed if the Live servers go down.

Well, you could still encourage your friends and family to buy their own copy, you and your friend could digitally share your game with another friend, and suddenly you have a 4 play co-op game running on 2 copies of the game. Sounds pretty handy to me. As far as xbox live down time? I am far less worried about authentication servers going down on XBL when they didn't allow my credit card number to be stolen followed by over a month of down time.


It wont stop.  MS fucked up, gave a shit business model and then had to back pedal because they knew they fucked up.  Why support a system that tried to fuck you over.  I mean of course all the fanboys just ate it up.  I'm going to end this here, as you'll have some retort defending MS.  We can tell you're and MS fan/supporter/enthusiast, so what ever we say will have not effect.

For those who want to see the specs of the systems, here is a link.

http://www.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/PS4_vs._Xbox_One_vs._Wii_U_Comparison_Chart

Yeah, the system didn't fuck me over at all. I have no issues with 24 hour check ins. I don't trade my games or buy them used. And I have no problems with kinect, even if I have to put paper over the sensor. At the end of the day, your link to system specifications doesn't mean a damn thing. It didn't last gen when Sony touted the cell processor, and it won't now. I am arguing the side of reason and level headed conversation rather than sensationalism and name calling.

Offline Slywyn

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #497 on: June 20, 2013, 12:18:04 PM »
Purely anecdotal and subjective.

You have seen the system specs right? PS4 is ahead in almost every respect that isn't internet. It's a more powerful system. There's nothing 'anecdotal or subjective' about that.

Offline Sex Bobomb

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #498 on: June 20, 2013, 12:21:17 PM »
You have seen the system specs right? PS4 is ahead in almost every respect that isn't internet. It's a more powerful system. There's nothing 'anecdotal or subjective' about that.

Remember the PS3? Remember the cell processor being some next level shit? Remember how it was identical in nearly every respect to the 360 in terms of power? Remember how it patched games slower?

Specifications do not make a console. Period. It has always been that way.

Offline ShadowFox89

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #499 on: June 20, 2013, 12:22:44 PM »
Remember the PS3? Remember the cell processor being some next level shit? Remember how it was identical in nearly every respect to the 360 in terms of power? Remember how it patched games slower?

Specifications do not make a console. Period. It has always been that way.

 Being dismissive does not make for a compelling argument.