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Author Topic: Education and the modern generation  (Read 4948 times)

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Offline BeorningTopic starter

Education and the modern generation
« on: May 17, 2013, 02:26:42 PM »
I've just read a shocking article about the state of education among the current teenage / young adult generation in Poland. The article described the experiences of a few teaching aides - and the examples of pure ignorance they witnessed among their students. The examples include:
  • a high school student asking if Świtezianka (a 19th-century poem about rusalkas) was based on facts (the teaching aide's comment: "Should I really be explaining to a 18-year-old that rusalkas aren't real?"),
  • a high school student (shortly before graduation) asking who Hitler was ("I've heard the name mentioned..."),
  • a student having trouble telling what present century was - and being *unable* to tell what century it was 100 years ago (the aide relates she tried to calculate it by substracting 100 from 21...),
  • students being unable to tell what year the WW2 began,
  • a student asking who is the current 'president of Earth'.
The worst thing? Some of these students actually managed to *graduate* from high school and got admitted to *universities*. Meaning, in a few years, we'll be getting teachers, doctors, maybe even lawyers and politicians which such shocking gaps in basic knowledge...

Is it that bad in your countries?
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 02:27:48 PM by Beorning »

Offline Oniya

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Re: Education and the modern generation
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2013, 02:38:19 PM »
The little Oni is in Honors for all applicable classes - just finishing 6th grade.  I know that there is one grandparent who insisted on pulling her grandchild out on any days that the science class was going to cover evolution.  Other incidents (that the little Oni just boggled at) included:

Not knowing the names and locations of the 50 states.  We're not talking about confusing Colorado and Wyoming (somewhat understandable), but listing Canada, Japan, and Madagascar as states.

Not being able to identify U.S. Presidents.  Specifically, thinking that Albert Einstein was an American President. 

The one new, non-trivial topic that she's learned in math (combining like terms) was done with a self-study computer application.  This is why I have some plans for her over the summer - that she is completely on board with - and a request for a placement exam that might get her into 8th grade math next year.

Offline Retribution

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Re: Education and the modern generation
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2013, 02:48:47 PM »
I recall tales like this when I was in school. I had classmates at both the college and high school level that well lets say were not so bright. I have two teens and I will spare the parental gloating other than to say they are at the top of their respective classes. They tell me similar tales from the school front so this sort of thing has been going on more than a little while. Having said that we can and should do all we can to improve education.

But! pick about any field or endeavor and one can find horror stories. So I think it is important to take such things with a grain of salt. The other thing is a lot of the problem is home environment and or lack of motivation on the part of the student. I wish I knew how to fix that because I honestly feel it is one of the great plagues that faces our society. Even in about the worst school system if one applies themselves they can get a serviceable education. The problem is often just that applying themselves is not an environment they have been exposed to at home or anyplace else and the parents probably came from a similar background.

It all makes for a terribly vicious cycle with each generation falling into the trap that captured the last one. In the same vein if you find families with a history of success the younger generation tends to follow in those footsteps. I have no idea how you break the cycle in the bad case without trampling all over individual rights. But I firmly believe that this is where the problem lies with these sorts of horror stories through the decades.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Education and the modern generation
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2013, 04:01:16 PM »
The trick to motivate many students is make the education relevant say your in High School I had to take history mostly rehashing what I learned in elementary and middle school, when I had a class in retail employment skills that tied to a way to earn money such as cashiering. I just found many classes useless to me I wasn't planning to go to college being disabled the debt didn't make sense up against the unemployment rate simply put the degree would not have made much difference. Skills tied to employment did make sense.

Now for the really gung ho students and brilliant geeks they are college material and will work to get there and take these redundant classes but how much science or history does an average person need knowing what states are where is not useful to most people, such as a retail worker or someone fixing cars.

I blame lots of people parents and the do-gooder educators and employers making college such a vital focus if there was an option to learn enough skills to be employed out of High School in an entry level capacity. Why? Any education after that means debt and in High School its state funded which is better for the poor. But this could include joint programs with community colleges and universities to offer certificates or other options.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Education and the modern generation
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2013, 04:13:53 PM »
Now for the really gung ho students and brilliant geeks they are college material and will work to get there and take these redundant classes but how much science or history does an average person need knowing what states are where is not useful to most people, such as a retail worker or someone fixing cars.

If you're driving a long 18-wheeler, you better for goddamn sure know where your states are.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Education and the modern generation
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2013, 07:19:45 PM »
I said most people, truck drivers going long haul routes need more knowledge on US geography but there are map books, but what about a worker at Walmart?

Offline Oniya

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Re: Education and the modern generation
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2013, 07:23:49 PM »
Knowing the relative positions of the states gives you some idea of how long that thing on back-order will take to get to the store.  Knowing that Japan is not a U.S. state lets you know that shipping something to it is going to cost you something fierce.  Knowing that Rhode Island is very close to Connecticut and you can get something transferred in hours instead of days could help you keep a customer from going to the competition.

And as the 12-year-old says:  Walmart is an international store.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Education and the modern generation
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2013, 08:16:32 PM »
Just check GOOGLE.

Offline Blythe

Re: Education and the modern generation
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2013, 08:17:49 PM »
As for major gaps in education, I'm noticing that there's been a large dip in the average USA citizen's ability to read and write. I used to grade college papers, and students would try to use text or chatspeak in their term papers. There were students who still did not understand what a noun was. And these were adults in college.

Mathematics is quickly becoming an additional weak point in today's education. I was baffled when I realized that many normal USA citizens cannot do simple addition, subtraction, division, or multiplication in their heads. I'm not talking about someone asking them to solve quadratic equations here; I'm talking about people unable to say what 8 multiplied by 7 is without using a calculator. This is something supposedly taught in elementary school, for crying out loud.

I think it's important for people to be able to be self-reliant, and education is the key to that. I believe people shouldn't have to rely on electronic gadgets as crutches to cover for a basic lack of knowledge.

Note: My examples are anecdotal evidence (my experiences teaching in college, and my tutoring of students taking Algebra), so I don't have sources.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 08:21:32 PM by Blythe »

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Re: Education and the modern generation
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2013, 08:31:58 PM »
Just check GOOGLE.

At work, on the clock?  Good luck with that.  The managers I've had would write you up for that in a heartbeat, and that was back in the days when they actually gave a damn about the employee.

Offline Blythe

Re: Education and the modern generation
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2013, 09:29:57 PM »
The trick to motivate many students is make the education relevant say your in High School I had to take history mostly rehashing what I learned in elementary and middle school, when I had a class in retail employment skills that tied to a way to earn money such as cashiering. I just found many classes useless to me I wasn't planning to go to college being disabled the debt didn't make sense up against the unemployment rate simply put the degree would not have made much difference. Skills tied to employment did make sense.

Technical school deals with skills related to trained labor, and I don't see a reason to merge specialized technical school with high school education, with high school's intent to be broader and include basic skills and knowledge to let people function in society.

Now for the really gung ho students and brilliant geeks they are college material and will work to get there and take these redundant classes but how much science or history does an average person need knowing what states are where is not useful to most people, such as a retail worker or someone fixing cars.

I doubt stereotyping some students as "geeks" has any relevancy to this topic.

Anyone who will work processing and dyeing metal or anyone wanting to work at a soda plant making the beverages (just a few examples), might want some functioning knowledge of chemistry or physical science. Any person working in construction is going to need to know some math and science.

A basic knowledge of history in the USA tends to include a basic overview of the political system as well, so any student ever wanting to start on the path to becoming an informed voter would need history.

I blame lots of people parents and the do-gooder educators and employers making college such a vital focus if there was an option to learn enough skills to be employed out of High School in an entry level capacity. Why? Any education after that means debt and in High School its state funded which is better for the poor. But this could include joint programs with community colleges and universities to offer certificates or other options.

While I might concede that parenting can be an issue, "do-gooder" educators are not the problem. Educators are limited by the system they are in. All the recent rules regarding this unrealistic focus on standardized testing are just one way teachers are limited--many teachers can lose their jobs if enough of their students don't consistently pass standardized tests, and they end up focusing on prepping for the exams rather than teaching what students need to know. This is a flaw of the system, not the flaw of the educators, who are more often than not frustrated with this very lack of focus on essential subjects for their students to learn.

EDIT: Have made a few edits to clean up a few sloppily used words. The general intent remains the same.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 09:42:25 PM by Blythe »

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Education and the modern generation
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2013, 09:45:10 PM »
Here is what I would do decide what skills are essential in academics to do jobs where a High School diploma should be sufficient and set a grade level say 9th grade, not sure what that would be. Ask employers and vocational experts. Then to graduate with a diploma aim at that level, exceed it if one can. Included in this what essential base knowledge you want them to have if ,for example, you consider civics important put that on the list. I would include common uses of mathematics as one complained about already. That would be the national graduation standards expected for a diploma.

One should also offer pre-college tracks, career tracks and career tracks with post High School options so each student in the US would have a goal based on skills assessments and other factors.

Other nations should also do this since frankly skills can be more important that apply to a career over general unrelated knowledge to employment.

Technical school deals with skills related to trained labor, and I don't see a reason to merge specialized technical school with high school education, with high school's intent to be broader and include basic skills and knowledge to let you function in society.   I gave reasons High School is pretty much free and therefore the best place to offer a level of technical career training to all students where going after High School means debts taken on. You do get that fact which is why its often a turn off to young adults especially poor ones. Your very elitist like most people say a student had two years of general classes and later two years technical training learning useful skills and gaining one or more career options. I would say that is as good as a pre-college track and can be as demanding on the student. And unless going into debt for an education almost assures a good job its no longer worth it.  Even a trade school can cost thousands of dollars where in High School it would be covered under the free public education umbrella.

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Re: Education and the modern generation
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2013, 09:55:03 PM »
My sister is studying to be a teacher (music teacher, but an educator nonetheless) and no matter how bright and driven she is, she doesn't seem at all surprised or even disheartened by the ignorance of some of her fellow students studying to become teachers.

One of her friends from college asked me word for word...

Quote
"Where in America is Norway? I can't find it on a map!"

This was after meeting the FOREIGN EXCHANGE STUDENT who used to live with my family a few years back and who comes to visit quite often. We even introduced her as a "foreign exchange student".

And when I answered her with "Uhm... It's not in America..." while trying to keep from losing my shit over how idiotic a question that was...

She asked this gem:

Quote
"Do they speak Japanese in Norway?"

When my sister didn't speak up to answer her, I looked at her... and then I looked at Stine (I can't get my phone to make the accent over the e >.<), and said

Quote
"Are you sure you're cut out to be a teacher? Please let me know where you end up teaching so I can make sure my son never ends up as your student."

And to top it all off, my sister said I was in the wrong for calling her out on her ignorance.

I've also heard these gems:

Quote
"How can the world be more than 2000 years old, if we're only on the date 2004?"
This was asked during one of my high school history classes, when we were talking about things that happened prior to our modern calendar's beginning. The fact that she honestly things that the year 1 is the dawn of time is only dwarfed by the fact that she didn't believe the world could be more than 2k years old, even though by her own standards it was 4 years AFTER that mark.

Quote
"I didn't think fossils were real."

Quote
"I've heard of China, but I don't know where it is."

Quote
"How do you make tea?"
This was from a college sophomore to a friend of mine... they had tea bags... they couldn't figure out how to make tea. When told they needed to heat up some water to boiling or near-boiling, they asked her HOW. She had to SHOW THEM you could use a coffee pot to heat up water without putting actual coffee in the machine. They didn't even think putting a mug of water in the microwave was something you could do.

The level of ignorance found in my and younger generations (I'm only in my 20s, so I'm more than willing to admit that some of my generation are fucking morons) display is absolutely baffling.

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Re: Education and the modern generation
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2013, 10:04:18 PM »
Ruby, you don't support education for anyone at all ever. Really, you've made your point numerous times.

I've just read a shocking article about the state of education among the current teenage / young adult generation in Poland. The article described the experiences of a few teaching aides - and the examples of pure ignorance they witnessed among their students. The examples include:
  • a high school student asking if Świtezianka (a 19th-century poem about rusalkas) was based on facts (the teaching aide's comment: "Should I really be explaining to a 18-year-old that rusalkas aren't real?"),
  • a high school student (shortly before graduation) asking who Hitler was ("I've heard the name mentioned..."),
  • a student having trouble telling what present century was - and being *unable* to tell what century it was 100 years ago (the aide relates she tried to calculate it by substracting 100 from 21...),
  • students being unable to tell what year the WW2 began,
  • a student asking who is the current 'president of Earth'.
The worst thing? Some of these students actually managed to *graduate* from high school and got admitted to *universities*. Meaning, in a few years, we'll be getting teachers, doctors, maybe even lawyers and politicians which such shocking gaps in basic knowledge...

Is it that bad in your countries?

I went to private schools and I couldn't tell you what year WWII began until a few years after high school. It wasn't for lack of effort on the teachers' part, either - I got into an argument with my history professor teacher my sophomore year of high school. Like, neither of us were angry but it was a fairly involved argument. I argued that dates don't matter, and he argued that dates do matter (is the simple version). He finally told me that I could forgo the dates IF I could relate everything on exams with Other Stuff Going On In the World at that time. So I didn't learn them.

(It would have been easier to just learn the dates rather than marking things by other things, but I guess I used to be a little stubborn back then. >.>)

And then there were all the professors in college who didn't make me learn dates, so long as I could explain which event came before that event and how they affected one another. It happens. I could also see an argument for Hitler being less relevant as we move further into the next century. More relevant would probably be things like Rwanda's ethnic cleansing (1994), Lockerbie (86), things like that. I think to modern students, WWII is about as relevant (to them) as the US Civil War or some such. It's difficult to connect with and remember, as happens with most large events as time moves away from them.

I would argue that these anecdotes mean very little by themselves. There have always been idiotic questions, strange gaps in knowledge, especially in younger people. However, if people are really horrified by these things, I would recommend writing to politicians and tell them that schools need more funding. I don't know about Poland, but the US could certainly use it.

Edit: Been around professors for too long.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 10:05:48 PM by Trieste »

Offline Blythe

Re: Education and the modern generation
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2013, 10:07:00 PM »
Here is what I would do decide what skills are essential in academics to do jobs where a High School diploma should be sufficient and set a grade level say 9th grade, not sure what that would be. Ask employers and vocational experts. Then to graduate with a diploma aim at that level, exceed it if one can. Included in this what essential base knowledge you want them to have if ,for example, you consider civics important put that on the list. I would include common uses of mathematics as one complained about already. That would be the national graduation standards expected for a diploma.

I think this is somewhat impractical. The sheer amount of vocations that are available to pursue would render specialized technical schooling based on intended vocation exceedingly expensive to accommodate the variety in a high school setting. Taxpayers are the ones who pay for education, so I think you'd see a tax hike by trying to merge tech school and high school. The average USA citizen would end up paying for specialized education either way, in high school or in college. At least with college a student has a choice to pay the extra money for specialized knowledge and job training. But we're dealing with a rather tricky area here, and I'd rather not get off topic with exploring that idea further.

One should also offer pre-college tracks, career tracks and career tracks with post High School options so each student in the US would have a goal based on skills assessments and other factors.

A lot of high schools do this already (the offering of career tracks and so on); the services are usually offered by a school counselor or other qualified official, and students are encouraged to select electives based on what career they like and what they show aptitude in.

Other nations should also do this since frankly skills can be more important that apply to a career over general unrelated knowledge to employment.

Some nations do. The text section here before the contents is most informative. Germany does have something similar to what we're discussing. But for the USA, it would require an enormously expensive overhaul of the educational system that I doubt would be practical, considering how we fund such things.

Technical school deals with skills related to trained labor, and I don't see a reason to merge specialized technical school with high school education, with high school's intent to be broader and include basic skills and knowledge to let you function in society.   I gave reasons High School is pretty much free and therefore the best place to offer a level of technical career training to all students where going after High School means debts taken on. You do get that fact which is why its often a turn off to young adults especially poor ones. Your very elitist like most people say a student had two years of general classes and later two years technical training learning useful skills and gaining one or more career options. I would say that is as good as a pre-college track and can be as demanding on the student. And unless going into debt for an education almost assures a good job its no longer worth it.  Even a trade school can cost thousands of dollars where in High School it would be covered under the free public education umbrella.

The problem with offering comprehensive technical training in high school, in my opinion, is that you can't cover enough basic vocational fields to warrant it being practical, at least here in the USA. High school education is broad and generalized somewhat because most high school students don't seem to know what profession they'd like to be in when they graduate, and fusing vocational learning and high school learning seems like it would be a knowledge overload.

Your very elitist like most people say a student had two years of general classes and later two years technical training learning useful skills and gaining one or more career options.

Could you clarify this? I can't tell if you're referring to most people as elitist or if you are referring to me specifically as elitist.

However, if people are really horrified by these things, I would recommend writing to politicians and tell them that schools need more funding. I don't know about Poland, but the US could certainly use it.

*smiles* I do write to my state officials about it. And if enough constituents show their support and interest, politicians will generally cave and do something, so I definitely agree with you, Trieste.

EDIT: Had to add a few words here and there.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 10:15:36 PM by Blythe »

Offline Ephiral

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Re: Education and the modern generation
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2013, 10:35:25 PM »
Staying out of the broader debate so my mouth doesn't start frothing with blood and rage. So an aside:

This was from a college sophomore to a friend of mine... they had tea bags... they couldn't figure out how to make tea. When told they needed to heat up some water to boiling or near-boiling, they asked her HOW. She had to SHOW THEM you could use a coffee pot to heat up water without putting actual coffee in the machine. They didn't even think putting a mug of water in the microwave was something you could do.

To be fair, tea-making is such a contentious topic that there is an ISO standard for it, and sticking a mug of water in a microwave is incredibly dangerous under the right circumstances.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 10:47:16 PM by Ephiral »

Offline Oniya

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Re: Education and the modern generation
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2013, 10:43:32 PM »
As I understand, you need a clean mug (so that nucleation sites don't exist to start the boiling process).  Those are in dreadfully short supply on most college campuses.  ;D

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Re: Education and the modern generation
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2013, 10:49:23 PM »
Flash boiling is usually due to superheating without nucleation sites.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Education and the modern generation
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2013, 12:14:48 AM »
Precisely.  Which means you have to have a perfectly smooth, perfectly clean vessel.  (Distilled water also helps.)  Finding a cup clean enough to be free of nucleation sites in a college dorm?  Among people who haven't figured out how to heat water of the municipal variety? 

Offline DarklingAlice

Re: Education and the modern generation
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2013, 12:25:08 AM »
Precisely.  Which means you have to have a perfectly smooth, perfectly clean vessel.  (Distilled water also helps.)  Finding a cup clean enough to be free of nucleation sites in a college dorm?  Among people who haven't figured out how to heat water of the municipal variety? 

Well...that could be where all my lab glassware keeps going!
Other than the one box of specimen jars that might have been re-purposed for fire cupping...

Seriously though, highschool is becoming more and more useless, it's a waste of everyone's time (and there is perhaps good reason to argue that that is intentional). The actual intricacies of this sort of thing are hard to discuss without concrete data, but I know that I personally can't rely on most of my students to have any background in science from highschool. It's incredibly frustrating.

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Re: Education and the modern generation
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2013, 12:27:57 AM »
Well...that could be where all my lab glassware keeps going!
Other than the one box of specimen jars that might have been re-purposed for fire cupping...

Seriously though, highschool is becoming more and more useless, it's a waste of everyone's time (and there is perhaps good reason to argue that that is intentional). The actual intricacies of this sort of thing are hard to discuss without concrete data, but I know that I personally can't rely on most of my students to have any background in science from highschool. It's incredibly frustrating.

Some of us had enthusiasm for science in high school. At least until the bomb squad hauled away pieces of one of my projects that one time.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Education and the modern generation
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2013, 12:49:59 AM »
Precisely.  Which means you have to have a perfectly smooth, perfectly clean vessel.  (Distilled water also helps.)  Finding a cup clean enough to be free of nucleation sites in a college dorm?  Among people who haven't figured out how to heat water of the municipal variety?

Ohhh, I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying you needed a clean mug to avoid the boilover thing and I was like, "Waitasec..."

Makes much more sense now.

With the prevalence of bottled and filtered water, it's not always wise to rely on the impurities in the water to help, but I imagine putting a tiny bit of sugar or salt in the water beforehand would do. Or just steal some Boileezers from the lab. Okay, maybe not.

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Re: Education and the modern generation
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2013, 03:39:58 AM »
Ruby, you don't support education for anyone at all ever. Really, you've made your point numerous times.

I went to private schools and I couldn't tell you what year WWII began until a few years after high school. It wasn't for lack of effort on the teachers' part, either - I got into an argument with my history professor teacher my sophomore year of high school. Like, neither of us were angry but it was a fairly involved argument. I argued that dates don't matter, and he argued that dates do matter (is the simple version). He finally told me that I could forgo the dates IF I could relate everything on exams with Other Stuff Going On In the World at that time. So I didn't learn them.

(It would have been easier to just learn the dates rather than marking things by other things, but I guess I used to be a little stubborn back then. >.>)

And then there were all the professors in college who didn't make me learn dates, so long as I could explain which event came before that event and how they affected one another. It happens. I could also see an argument for Hitler being less relevant as we move further into the next century. More relevant would probably be things like Rwanda's ethnic cleansing (1994), Lockerbie (86), things like that. I think to modern students, WWII is about as relevant (to them) as the US Civil War or some such. It's difficult to connect with and remember, as happens with most large events as time moves away from them.

I would argue that these anecdotes mean very little by themselves. There have always been idiotic questions, strange gaps in knowledge, especially in younger people. However, if people are really horrified by these things, I would recommend writing to politicians and tell them that schools need more funding. I don't know about Poland, but the US could certainly use it.

Edit: Been around professors for too long.


You know, there are places in the world where fully adult people (who might not even keep personal guns at home) would be ready to sharpen some knives to begin hacking each other into pieces over statements such as "Hitler or Göring really aren't any more important than General Lee or Sherman" or "there are people who have suffered just as bad as the Jews did in the thirties" (note, the way that one's phrased it would *not* include the years when things really moved into high gear - it's still a statement that would make many people grit their teeth and have newspaper feuds starting) or "things were pretty nice in the seventeenth century" (apart from the Thirty years war, plagues and witch burnings, all of which would implicitly be glossed over). Well, kicking or stabbing each other to pieces in a figurative sense, but in public...

And of course those sly or dingy statements are very obvious picks, even laughable. You could get in seriously strained situations for a lot less than those.  :-X

 In Europe you'd definitely get some strange glances if you were shrugging at world war two, or implying that the conflict was *not* absolutely central to the modern world, but I figure that's true in China and Japan too. And in many places, or many schools, many homes in the U.S. too. I mean, the U.S. spent fifty years paying much of the bills and largely holding the steering wheel for serious military activities and planning in many parts of Europe, and still has far more military muscle than any nation in that continent or in the western hemisphere: there has to be a reason for that somewhere... ;)

Okay, I would agree it's...likely? that WW2 and the atrocities that happened then will not always remain as crucially central to history as they are to many of us now (though what kind of war, apart from a nuclear armageddon, could 'outpace' WW2? - shivers). But for the present it's still a big part of the wider backdrop to many people's lives and to the history of nearly every country on the planet. So is WW1 by the way, only less obvious, 'cause it was a much less photogenic war, less Hollywood potential you could say, and it happened one more generation back, so to us it's obscured by the magnificent second round (next year the centenary is up). Right, you know that for sure, guys and ladies. It would actually be interesting if someone staged a debate on the premise "9!11 was a more important, more seminal, more powerful event than WW2" - just supposing that the huge war could be telescoped into one event - but lots of people would find it offensive to even put the question like that. With 9/11 no one needs to ask the year, of course.

And to handle the ways that WW2 - or 9/11 and the war on terrorism - still impacts us, still frames all of us, I guess it matters that those wars and upheavals look different to people from different places. Which could be iffy to handle if all that a big part of the population knows about WW2, beyond the movies, is that it started somewhere around the time grandpa went to school, ended in 1945, and was started by a looney dictator called Adolf Hitler and his evil Jerries, or is it germs?  :D  ::)
« Last Edit: May 18, 2013, 04:12:27 AM by gaggedLouise »

Offline Retribution

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Re: Education and the modern generation
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2013, 05:15:58 AM »
*the biologist wants it noted he remained silent on the relevance of science....he should get cookies* ahem and you can always add a boiling chip to get the process started if the glassware is too flawless but I digress!

There are vocational schools out there one of my best buds knew college was not for him and it is not for everyone. He went to enough though to become a tool maker he makes metal parts within tolerances that are mind blowing like tens of thousandths but he has a trade. On a side note for those who say math is not relevant he complains that doing sin'es in his head is kind of hard....I know messed up the spelling on that as I am not educated enough to figure out how to properly make the word plural.

I still think much of this goes back to home environment and application of a little effort. Here is some more anecdotal evidence. Track meet the other night my son is in a relay that is the very last event there were delays so parents took their kids that were supposed to run and left. My son had to go get kids who normally do not do the event to run with him since it was a really. It was late, we would have liked to go but by god his coach had signed him up to run that event and you do your (#^$^ assignment. So he had his team in 2nd after running but then they got smoked when the patchwork took the baton. My boy gets in the truck and he is raging "I was raised you do what you are supposed to, when you are supposed to, and they LEFT!?"

A bit of gloating on my part, but the point is these kid's PARENTS took them and left when they all knew they were supposed to run. Really? And we wonder why they do not do well in school?

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Re: Education and the modern generation
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2013, 07:13:33 AM »
It has been a few years back, but I doubt much has changed for the average student. When my son was in the 7th grade I pulled him out to home school him myself. My job at the time was swing shift and left little time for me to interact with him for homework purposes. I had no idea just how bad things were until we sat down and opened the books. He didn't know there was a glossary at the back of his books where he could find and study his spelling and definitions. He didn't know how to use a dictionary or an encyclopedia. He didn't know how to structure a report, create on outline, or gather information. This was just the tip of the iceberg.

I believe the main problem with schools are they keep shoving information into growing brains, but not teaching them how to learn. Information comes with study and passes away without constant use. When you teach someone how to find and process information, they can learn anything they desire.