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Author Topic: Warhammer 40K Steampunk (Why isn't this a real thing!)  (Read 1220 times)

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Offline chaoslord29

Re: Warhammer 40K Steampunk (Why isn't this a real thing!)
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2013, 03:50:27 PM »
Don't really like the Eldar as Steam Elementals . . . I mean, they're space elves, not elemental embodiments of anything in particular (except perhaps well-deserved arrogance). So if they're still essentially elves, I say rather than making them steam-anything, do the usual Elvish thing and make them light-years ahead while still keeping to ancient traditions. Instead of Elves from Albion, why not Elves from the Cyclades? They could be semi-classical with togas and chitons and a sort of Roman Republic feel to them. They could utilize Steampunk solar tech with sail powered skimmers and basically complicated mirrors and alchemically grown gems to focus deadly rays of light and blinding shields to confuse their foes. So you get classic Eldar firepower and hit and run tactics along with Greek and Roman themed specialist troops reminiscent of Aspect Warriors.

In turn, The Dark Eldar could use the same solar sailer tech and take the role of the princes and pirates of the Barbary Coast! Slaving and raiding and conducting themselves rather savagely all the while playing at royalty and being a 'legitimate' world power.

Also I know that in Warhammer Fantasy, the Orks are the Scots, barbaric warriors raiding out from their highland homes. That kind of carries over into 40k though, but more like if the Scots had gone the way of Latin American Guerilla Rebels and Central African Warlords. For Steampunk Orks, I can't help but picture boyz riding buffalo-squigs wearing headdresses and generally acting like the most politically incorrect recreation of the North American Plane's Indians ever.  It would make for perfect clashes with Cavalry of the Imperial Colonial Venture Company.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Warhammer 40K Steampunk (Why isn't this a real thing!)
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2013, 04:35:51 PM »
I'm thinking too politically incorrect even for Warhammer 40K, which takes refuge in audacity. I also kind of would think that keeping that hooligan feel to them would be important.

Offline chaoslord29

Re: Warhammer 40K Steampunk (Why isn't this a real thing!)
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2013, 04:57:58 PM »
I'm thinking too politically incorrect even for Warhammer 40K, which takes refuge in audacity. I also kind of would think that keeping that hooligan feel to them would be important.

Awwwww, well I suppose we can lose the feathered headdresses, but to keep them properly Orky and kind of a step behind in the usual development of thing, why not make them the Ottomans? You get that kind of mob feel with the lower castes of boyz and grots, but there's also room for more disciplined units of Nob Jannisaries (Jannis?), and squig mounted Bedouin orks for cavalry. The only other thing I can think to get you that same kind of 'horde' feel while still being Victorian Steampunk, would be to make them gypsies haha.

Also, I'd like to know what you thought of the Eldar ideas?

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Warhammer 40K Steampunk (Why isn't this a real thing!)
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2013, 05:02:37 PM »
Awwwww, well I suppose we can lose the feathered headdresses, but to keep them properly Orky and kind of a step behind in the usual development of thing, why not make them the Ottomans? You get that kind of mob feel with the lower castes of boyz and grots, but there's also room for more disciplined units of Nob Jannisaries (Jannis?), and squig mounted Bedouin orks for cavalry. The only other thing I can think to get you that same kind of 'horde' feel while still being Victorian Steampunk, would be to make them gypsies haha.

Also, I'd like to know what you thought of the Eldar ideas?
What about Czarist Russia?

Offline chaoslord29

Re: Warhammer 40K Steampunk (Why isn't this a real thing!)
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2013, 05:20:06 PM »
Thought we already had someone for the Russians?

Oh! Here's one for you, not Czarist Russia, but what about premature communist Russian Orks? Maybe? Ork society is surprisingly communal after all (if not egalitarian). They could be the Czechs and the Serbs and the Albanians, who since they're Orks, whoever is playing as Czarist Russia never really got around to conquering so much as occasionally stomping them out only to have them resurge.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Warhammer 40K Steampunk (Why isn't this a real thing!)
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2013, 05:29:04 PM »
Thought we already had someone for the Russians?

Oh! Here's one for you, not Czarist Russia, but what about premature communist Russian Orks? Maybe? Ork society is surprisingly communal after all (if not egalitarian). They could be the Czechs and the Serbs and the Albanians, who since they're Orks, whoever is playing as Czarist Russia never really got around to conquering so much as occasionally stomping them out only to have them resurge.

Well Let's see:

Imperium: Britain, U.S., Germany, France, Canada, Italy with some elements of the Ottoman Empire, maybe some other things.

Tau are imperial Japan and China with some of the best tech (which would be WWII)

Chaos would be certain elements of the Imperium naturally.

The Eldar are a little harder to nail down, that's why the steam elementals came up.

Orks could be Russia, but I picked Czarist more for the level of tech they had going into WWI. So Russia would be a certainty. Oh no, Russia and Mongolia.

Offline chaoslord29

Re: Warhammer 40K Steampunk (Why isn't this a real thing!)
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2013, 05:50:37 PM »
I like the idea of the Orks as the Mongolians, and the Tau as a budding Asian Prosperity Sphere XD

So what about the Craftworld and Dark Eldar as the last remnants of Rome and the Barbary Pirates respectively?

Offline consortium11

Re: Warhammer 40K Steampunk (Why isn't this a real thing!)
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2013, 06:02:43 PM »
Also I know that in Warhammer Fantasy, the Orks are the Scots, barbaric warriors raiding out from their highland homes.

I'm not sure that's strictly true as it seems to base itself on the idea of the Empire being England, while I'd suggest that the Empire is more accurately seen as a version of the Holy Roman Empire. Kislev is a clear stand-in for Eastern Europe/Novgorod/Russia and from my thinking FB Chaos is a take on the Mongol and Timurid invasions.

As strange as it sounds at first glance, I actually think the Orcs are a take on the early days of Arabic Islam; the WAAAGHs being a stand-in for the Jihad, with the dwarfs taking the role of Byzantium; a once mighty but now faded empire with their strength struggling to project beyond their city walls.

Offline chaoslord29

Re: Warhammer 40K Steampunk (Why isn't this a real thing!)
« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2013, 07:22:17 PM »
I'm not sure that's strictly true as it seems to base itself on the idea of the Empire being England, while I'd suggest that the Empire is more accurately seen as a version of the Holy Roman Empire. Kislev is a clear stand-in for Eastern Europe/Novgorod/Russia and from my thinking FB Chaos is a take on the Mongol and Timurid invasions.

As strange as it sounds at first glance, I actually think the Orcs are a take on the early days of Arabic Islam; the WAAAGHs being a stand-in for the Jihad, with the dwarfs taking the role of Byzantium; a once mighty but now faded empire with their strength struggling to project beyond their city walls.

Actually, that's straight from the mouth of one of the authors of the 6th edition Orks & Goblins army book. I remember it distinctly back when I had a subscription to White Dwarf. He was discussing the Bretonnians as the French and compared to (as you correctly identified) the Empire being Germans and Central Europeans and then casually dropped that the Orks were the Scots and Celts and other highland tribes of Great Britain (with the Elves being the English courts of Camelot I believe).

Offline consortium11

Re: Warhammer 40K Steampunk (Why isn't this a real thing!)
« Reply #34 on: May 02, 2013, 07:53:03 PM »
Actually, that's straight from the mouth of one of the authors of the 6th edition Orks & Goblins army book. I remember it distinctly back when I had a subscription to White Dwarf. He was discussing the Bretonnians as the French and compared to (as you correctly identified) the Empire being Germans and Central Europeans and then casually dropped that the Orks were the Scots and Celts and other highland tribes of Great Britain (with the Elves being the English courts of Camelot I believe).

The Bretonians (unless they've had a massive redesign in the last few years) simply aren't French though (although having certain French elements). They're quite clearly English/British in the "Albion" style; almost all of their special characters are straight out of Arthurian legends and the whole setup is basically Arthurian style knights with English style peasant archers with long bows. French chivalry has its own heroic traditions and characters such as Guillaume.

Offline chaoslord29

Re: Warhammer 40K Steampunk (Why isn't this a real thing!)
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2013, 10:47:01 AM »
The Bretonians (unless they've had a massive redesign in the last few years) simply aren't French though (although having certain French elements). They're quite clearly English/British in the "Albion" style; almost all of their special characters are straight out of Arthurian legends and the whole setup is basically Arthurian style knights with English style peasant archers with long bows. French chivalry has its own heroic traditions and characters such as Guillaume.

Geographically and militarily, the Bretonians have more in common medieval France than medieval Britain, but you're absolutely right that their heroic figures and mythology is straight from Arthurian lore. Obviously the Games Workshop folks are doing some mixing and matching, but it makes more sense than you might initially think when you consider that for most of the early/middle ages, the British nobility was essentially French, or more accurately, Norman.

As far as I know, the true representatives of English/British Albion in the Warhammer Fantasy world are the High Elves. They live on their mystical isle, shrouded in mists, and boast the bow armed troops (short of those damn Khemrian machine gunners).

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Warhammer 40K Steampunk (Why isn't this a real thing!)
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2013, 11:31:37 AM »
I did not envision this as a one-to-one conversion of either Warhammer or 40K. So I mean there is some latitude. I just kind of wanted to make it WWI on steroids. :]

Offline chaoslord29

Re: Warhammer 40K Steampunk (Why isn't this a real thing!)
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2013, 12:40:55 PM »
Yeah, WWI without the Central European Alliance or the Triple Entente, cause it's not quite Warhammer if you don't have every faction with a reason to make armed conflict against every other faction.

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Warhammer 40K Steampunk (Why isn't this a real thing!)
« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2013, 03:52:10 PM »
I got the feeling that someone from Games Workshop just went, "Hmmm..."

You can have it guys if you give me a job writing fluff. I swear to God I'll read all the source books and novels in a week!

Offline chaoslord29

Re: Warhammer 40K Steampunk (Why isn't this a real thing!)
« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2013, 04:11:47 PM »
I got the feeling that someone from Games Workshop just went, "Hmmm..."

You can have it guys if you give me a job writing fluff. I swear to God I'll read all the source books and novels in a week!

Amen brother! I'll be your editor haha.

Also, I wish Consortium would post back lol, I forgot to point out that the Bretonian's all have French names and use the Fleur-du-li as their symbol. Their King is Leon Leon'couer for crying out loud XD

Offline consortium11

Re: Warhammer 40K Steampunk (Why isn't this a real thing!)
« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2013, 05:50:47 PM »
Also, I wish Consortium would post back lol, I forgot to point out that the Bretonian's all have French names and use the Fleur-du-li as their symbol. Their King is Leon Leon'couer for crying out loud XD

And here I am  :-)

As has already been mentioned, English/British nobility for much of the middle-ages was essentially French; French names are nothing particularly notable in real history and for most of the middle-ages English royalty used the fleur-de-lis as part of their heraldry(it's part of the crown jewels). Likewise "Leocoeur" means Lion Hearted... which has far more connotations to English history and royalty then it does French (and the quest where he received his name is a clear Arthur parallel). There are enough French heroic legends to use rather than relying on Arthurian tales.

I'm also not convinced that militarily they're closer to France. The use of big columns of charging knights isn't uniquely French (if summed up much of England's success against Scotland and Wales in pitched battles) and one of the Bretonian's classic formations includes arrowheads of longbow men... something that is pretty uniquely English/British (at least after the conquests of Wales).

I just can't see High Elves as a stand-in for England/Britain. Their lore and fluff just doesn't have a English/British flavour to it and their armies (small number of elite troops, skilled and dangerous but fragile) doesn't correspond to Britain other then the fact they have good archers. Neither do their aesthetic tastes. I see them far more as a stand-in for the medieval idea of a lost Atlantis rather than as a stand-in for any actual nation/country, although there could arguably be a (somewhat weak) argument for them to be a stand-in for Rome/Byzantium (although that conflicts with seeing the Dwarfs as Byzantium) or possibly the Christian realms of the Iberian Peninsula.

Offline chaoslord29

Re: Warhammer 40K Steampunk (Why isn't this a real thing!)
« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2013, 06:00:21 PM »
And here I am  :-)

As has already been mentioned, English/British nobility for much of the middle-ages was essentially French; French names are nothing particularly notable in real history and for most of the middle-ages English royalty used the fleur-de-lis as part of their heraldry(it's part of the crown jewels). Likewise "Leocoeur" means Lion Hearted... which has far more connotations to English history and royalty then it does French (and the quest where he received his name is a clear Arthur parallel). There are enough French heroic legends to use rather than relying on Arthurian tales.

I'm also not convinced that militarily they're closer to France. The use of big columns of charging knights isn't uniquely French (if summed up much of England's success against Scotland and Wales in pitched battles) and one of the Bretonian's classic formations includes arrowheads of longbow men... something that is pretty uniquely English/British (at least after the conquests of Wales).

I just can't see High Elves as a stand-in for England/Britain. Their lore and fluff just doesn't have a English/British flavour to it and their armies (small number of elite troops, skilled and dangerous but fragile) doesn't correspond to Britain other then the fact they have good archers. Neither do their aesthetic tastes. I see them far more as a stand-in for the medieval idea of a lost Atlantis rather than as a stand-in for any actual nation/country, although there could arguably be a (somewhat weak) argument for them to be a stand-in for Rome/Byzantium (although that conflicts with seeing the Dwarfs as Byzantium) or possibly the Christian realms of the Iberian Peninsula.

All excellent points. Maybe we're going at this in too linear a fashion, since Warhammer Fantasy runs the gamut from late dark ages to early renaissance in terms of style, setting, technology etc.

That and I just facepalmed for missing a huge element of the mixed Bretonnian origins. They're Bretonians, from Bretonnia which is almost a direct corruption of Brittany. They're literally the ones doing the conquering in the medieval period for England/France XD

Offline InkiduTopic starter

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Re: Warhammer 40K Steampunk (Why isn't this a real thing!)
« Reply #42 on: May 09, 2013, 08:02:43 PM »
And here I am  :-)

As has already been mentioned, English/British nobility for much of the middle-ages was essentially French; French names are nothing particularly notable in real history and for most of the middle-ages English royalty used the fleur-de-lis as part of their heraldry(it's part of the crown jewels). Likewise "Leocoeur" means Lion Hearted... which has far more connotations to English history and royalty then it does French (and the quest where he received his name is a clear Arthur parallel). There are enough French heroic legends to use rather than relying on Arthurian tales.

I'm also not convinced that militarily they're closer to France. The use of big columns of charging knights isn't uniquely French (if summed up much of England's success against Scotland and Wales in pitched battles) and one of the Bretonian's classic formations includes arrowheads of longbow men... something that is pretty uniquely English/British (at least after the conquests of Wales).

I just can't see High Elves as a stand-in for England/Britain. Their lore and fluff just doesn't have a English/British flavour to it and their armies (small number of elite troops, skilled and dangerous but fragile) doesn't correspond to Britain other then the fact they have good archers. Neither do their aesthetic tastes. I see them far more as a stand-in for the medieval idea of a lost Atlantis rather than as a stand-in for any actual nation/country, although there could arguably be a (somewhat weak) argument for them to be a stand-in for Rome/Byzantium (although that conflicts with seeing the Dwarfs as Byzantium) or possibly the Christian realms of the Iberian Peninsula.
Yeah, he's right on all counts.

After the death of Harold II in the Battle of Hastings (1066) England was ruled as a French (Norman technically, a bit of a different beast if you ask the French) Barony until about Henry V. It had been English before then, but Henry V is about the time when quintessential "English" culture started to spring up.

 While charging knights isn't a French invention by any means the idea of charging knights with lances is. Again 1066 was the first recorded instance of stirrups being used in Western combat. Careful examination of the Bayeux Tapestry (Oh, God I hope I spelled that right, or they're going to take back my degree) indicates that William the Conqueror's (formerly William the Bastard Son of Robert the Devil), forces were the first to use the couched lance as a tactic, and many believe this is what aided the Normans in breaking the Saxon shield-wall.

A lance strike without a rider in stirrups only hits with about 40lbs per square inch. That's barely better than a professional carpenter with a hammer. A rider with stirrups can hit with about 4,000 pounds per square inch. That'll break a shield, the arm holding that shield, and the ribs of the man who owned the arm and the shield.

Still, I don't think I ever intended Britain or France alone to carry the Empire of Man in the steampunk version. I just pointed out that the uricaniforms of Britain, America, and France would be good sources for the Colonial Guard (the Imperial Guard stand-in).