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Author Topic: Someone please save me from my state  (Read 1370 times)

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Offline RyvenTopic starter

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Offline DTW

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Re: Someone please save me from my state
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2013, 09:44:40 PM »
Quote
Hey just think you get an extra year of your socialist tax breaks for being in another failed government social program called "marriage". Please stop with the "Im conservative" nonsense. If you were conservative you wouldnt need the gov in your relationship with a fancy word called "marriage". You chose to be part of a socialist program.


Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Someone please save me from my state
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2013, 09:48:28 PM »
So today in North Carolina...

http://www.wral.com/proposal-supports-state-religion-in-north-carolina/12301359/

http://www.wral.com/senate-bill-seeks-to-curb-college-vote/12298695/

Only days after this...

http://www.wral.com/senate-bill-would-make-it-harder-to-untie-knot-in-nc/12291236/


I think the republicans in my state have gone batshit crazy.

I figured that out a LONG time ago when I watched them turn on a family member running for office. Then backed someone who plagarized his speeches in his announcement to run. Then tried to get him to run against someone who could be two days dead and still get elected in her district (on his own dime, because he's well off and it would force the democrats to spend money to counter him)

They are hell bound in staying in control..the old coots in the party leadership..and letting the Tea Party (aka American Taliban) set policy is a small price to pay.

Does NOT surprise me that either rep from Rowan was involved. They are BOTH a bit flaky.

Offline Ephiral

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Re: Someone please save me from my state
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2013, 09:50:18 PM »
From the second article:

Quote
The same provisions on student voting have also been rolled into a larger omnibus bill, Senate Bill 666, which would also shorten early voting days, ban early voting on evenings and weekends and prohibit same-day registration.

I see that, having tried subtlety and failed, they're now going for blatant evil.

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Someone please save me from my state
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2013, 09:53:00 PM »
From the second article:

I see that, having tried subtlety and failed, they're now going for blatant evil.

Yeah.. I love the move they made 18 months ago.. banning municipal internet because it 'stifled' competition. AKA.. made providers actually have to develop infrastructure and expand.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Someone please save me from my state
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2013, 09:58:32 PM »
Quote
Jay DeLancy of the NC Voter Integrity Project also voiced support for the student voting restrictions, citing a case in which college students in Buncombe County changed the outcome of a race for a county commission seat in 2012.

"That race showed how easily college students can be manipulated like pawns," DeLancy said in a press release. "These bills will protect students from such abuse."


Gotta love how he rolls it in that students who vote are easily led around by a hook in the nose (but his own trusty core vote is not?)

Bill 666 indeed.  >:)

Offline Ephiral

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Re: Someone please save me from my state
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2013, 10:01:02 PM »
Gotta love how he rolls it in that students who vote are easily led around by a hook in the nose (but his own trusty core vote is not?)

Bill 666 indeed.  >:)
I... I don't even get the logic he's pretending to have here. College students voted, their votes mattered, ergo they were being manipulated? Am I missing a step here?

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Someone please save me from my state
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2013, 10:09:33 PM »
I... I don't even get the logic he's pretending to have here. College students voted, their votes mattered, ergo they were being manipulated? Am I missing a step here?

They weren't being manipulated by the RIGHT (that is GOP) party.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Someone please save me from my state
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2013, 10:18:36 PM »
I... I don't even get the logic he's pretending to have here. College students voted, their votes mattered, ergo they were being manipulated? Am I missing a step here?

Suppose it's part of the idea that if you're a student and don't fully live on your own job income (studying isn't a job...), you can be the more easily bought and so you are hoodwinked into voting against those that you *really* should be voting for. Your economy decides if you can understand who and what you should be endorsing..

Where did I hear this before? Ah, yes: "Class allegiance determines what you're able to think" is how they used to put it in Stalin's Soviet Russia.

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Someone please save me from my state
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2013, 10:43:55 PM »
Okay.. a quick note for those of you who don't know the situation going on in Raleigh, NC right now.

This is the FIRST TIME since the Reconstruction that you have a Republican State House (both houses) and Governor in place. And let's be totally and completely honest.. our last Governor was a poll addicted decision maker who couldn't find her ass with both hands, a road map and at least two opinion polls. The one before that was a favor brokering crook who pleaded down to the least charges he could get away with to stop the investigation before his Eastern NC cronies went down with him. (He fell on his sword for them) And BOTH of these lovely tools were Democrats.. and don't get me started on the crook that is Jim Hunt.

So there will be a LOT of axe grinding, favortism and hunting for exploits to ensure it won't be a century before they can do this again.

Okay.. here is the deal. The Eastern Side of the State RULES the state house. Democrat or Republican. Always has.. looks like it always will. Just check out the Gerrymandering of the the last two decades. You got a district that was intended to isolate the black vote very closely and only a shift in demographics stopped it from working. (The district in question was two or so miles wide and like followed 10 miles of I-85)
Charlotte is the LARGEST city in the nation without a fully complete beltway. They got bumped for an outer beltway for Fayetteville.. which won't need theirs till 2035.

The Yadkin River Bridge ONLY got moved up for widening and upgrades AFTER the better part of a decade of hot potatoes where the State DOT tried to put it on everyone BUT themselves. It took the condemning of their two ALTERNATES in the region to get it moved up. My brother said the only way it would get done while he was running for the GOP nomination was blowing it up.   
 
We had a Governor actually BLOW off a man who sunk MILLIONS into the Kannoplis  NC Research Campus facility breaking of ground. Didn't even RSVP. David Murdoch might have gutted the city when NAFTA killed the textile industry but at least he tried to help out the folks on the western side. The gents in either party in Raleigh give fuck all in attention.

If they (the Eastern Carolina reps) had their way, there would still be an automatic tax increase every six months on Gasoline and they'd be looking the highway trust for things like Tea Pot Museums instead of road work. It took the DoT TEN years to do a bridge in Fayetteville when I was growing up..and I watched at least 3 construction companies go broke doing road work in Catawba, Cabarrus and Rowan counties over the years.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 10:46:15 PM by Callie Del Noire »

Offline Bandita

Re: Someone please save me from my state
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2013, 11:16:14 PM »
Callie, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there.  Your points are interesting, but all over the map.  (pun intended, please don't hit me) 

But one thing I can say for sure, if they're trying to tax people who are trying to register to vote, that will get struck down in court so fast your head will spin.  Poll Taxes are illegal, 100% illegal.  They just simply cannot happen.  It will not last three days in court.

Its in, I believe, the 24th amendment?  I could be wrong, and my copy of the constitution is in my car.  It's constitutional though, it's effing illegal.

As for the other two, well, what do you expect?  The government in NC is batshit right now.  And Gerrymandered to beat hell.

   I mean seriously, Look at district 3 and tell me that it's not totally gerrymandered... It's got four pieces, with bits of one cutting it apart...

Seriously, give them two years and you will have no birth control, no abortion, and homosexuality will be illegal.  (If there are any republicans reading this, and are insulted, I do not aim this at you. Not all republicans hate women and homosexuals, and I know that. I aim it at the people who are in charge of this state and are actively working towards these goals.)
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 11:18:04 PM by Bandita »

Offline Ephiral

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Re: Someone please save me from my state
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2013, 11:23:29 PM »
But one thing I can say for sure, if they're trying to tax people who are trying to register to vote, that will get struck down in court so fast your head will spin.  Poll Taxes are illegal, 100% illegal.  They just simply cannot happen.  It will not last three days in court.

Its in, I believe, the 24th amendment?  I could be wrong, and my copy of the constitution is in my car.  It's constitutional though, it's effing illegal.
But see, this is where they're getting clever. They're not taxing people for registering. They're simply eliminating tax breaks for the parents of people who register. Totally different thing.

Offline Bandita

Re: Someone please save me from my state
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2013, 11:32:25 PM »
In front of a court, that will amount to the same thing. Tax penalties = a monetary punishment = poll tax.  It won't matter.

And while I'm at it, in response to GaggedLouise:  The reason why they don't want college students to vote is really simple.  College students historically vote more liberally, as do college educated people.  They don't want them elitist liberals voting...  Really, this is a tactic that they are employing all over the country, like the law in Texas that prohibited using your college ID to vote, which they passed just a couple of months before the last election. A similar one was passed in Pennsylvania. These laws are being sold as responses to voter fraud, but they are nothing of the sort.  And in a state like Texas, it can be so far from home that one simply cannot drive 30 miles and get their birth certificates in order to vote.  It has nothing to do with being on your own. I can't quote the info for this one, but that's because I sold my Political Geography text book, and I don't remember the author's name. 
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 11:39:49 PM by Bandita »

Offline Ephiral

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Re: Someone please save me from my state
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2013, 11:42:14 PM »
In front of a court, that will amount to the same thing. Tax penalties = a monetary punishment = poll tax.  It won't matter.
Even if the people being punished aren't the registrants? You're more optimistic than I, but also more familiar with the US legal system.

And while I'm at it, in response to GaggedLouise:  The reason why they don't want college students to vote is really simple.  College students historically vote more liberally, as do college educated people.  They don't want them elitist liberals voting...  Really, this is a tactic that they are employing all over the country, like the law in Texas that prohibited using your college ID to vote, which they passed just a couple of months before the last election. A similar one was passed in Pennsylvania. These laws are being sold as responses to voter fraud, but they are nothing of the sort.  And in a state like Texas, it can be so far from home that one simply cannot drive 30 miles and get their birth certificates in order to vote.  It has nothing to do with being on your own. I can't quote the info for this one, but that's because I sold my Political Geography text book, and I don't remember the author's name.
The correct response to any and all of these laws is simple: What voter fraud?

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Someone please save me from my state
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2013, 11:43:04 PM »
Callie, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there.  Your points are interesting, but all over the map.  (pun intended, please don't hit me) 

But one thing I can say for sure, if they're trying to tax people who are trying to register to vote, that will get struck down in court so fast your head will spin.  Poll Taxes are illegal, 100% illegal.  They just simply cannot happen.  It will not last three days in court.

Its in, I believe, the 24th amendment?  I could be wrong, and my copy of the constitution is in my car.  It's constitutional though, it's effing illegal.

As for the other two, well, what do you expect?  The government in NC is batshit right now.  And Gerrymandered to beat hell.

   I mean seriously, Look at district 3 and tell me that it's not totally gerrymandered... It's got four pieces, with bits of one cutting it apart...

Seriously, give them two years and you will have no birth control, no abortion, and homosexuality will be illegal.  (If there are any republicans reading this, and are insulted, I do not aim this at you. Not all republicans hate women and homosexuals, and I know that. I aim it at the people who are in charge of this state and are actively working towards these goals.)

They aren't taxing the polls. They are simply eliminating a tax break, like Bandita pointed out.

Sorry if I wander.. it's just hard to stay focused. The political situation in NC has been awful for a long long long time. This is just different since it's the GOP, and not Southern Democrats, doing it. Eastern NC has done a lot to ensure they keep control. I doubt that it will change.. though it MIGHT given that the current Governor used to be the Mayor of Charlotte..though he's an opportunist tool in my opinion.

The only difference between Gerrymandering this time around and all the other times since the Reconstruction is that the Democrats aren't in charge. The state is in the grasp of some of the worse job situations in decades.. possibly since the Great Depression. The shutdown of Cannon Plant #1 in Kannapolis was the biggest single layoff in the State's history. You got a lot of folks who are running scared and that is that the GOP/Tea Party want. They are leveraging it to the best of their ability. Remember there isn't a single industry that NC is known for that hasn't been hit or looked to be attacked lately.

Textiles.. dead. Tobacco.. getting more and more regulated and taxed at every stage. (Some folks even expect a full on ban in the next quarter century.. you have NO idea what that will do to some regions of the state).  I'm betting the next five election cycles in NC will be the most contentious and dirty in the state's history. Even worse than the Reconstruction era. You got a growing group of minorities who are growing and aren't sharing the southern democrat OR GOP outlook.


The correct response to any and all of these laws is simple: What voter fraud?

It's a good excuse.. been used a lot in the last five to six years. A LOT of voter suppresion was created over that 0.01% or so voter fraud at the polls.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 11:44:16 PM by Callie Del Noire »

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Someone please save me from my state
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2013, 11:46:24 PM »
In front of a court, that will amount to the same thing. Tax penalties = a monetary punishment = poll tax.  It won't matter.

And while I'm at it, in response to GaggedLouise:  The reason why they don't want college students to vote is really simple.  College students historically vote more liberally, as do college educated people.  They don't want them elitist liberals voting...  Really, this is a tactic that they are employing all over the country, like the law in Texas that prohibited using your college ID to vote, which they passed just a couple of months before the last election. A similar one was passed in Pennsylvania. These laws are being sold as responses to voter fraud, but they are nothing of the sort.  And in a state like Texas, it can be so far from home that one simply cannot drive 30 miles and get their birth certificates in order to vote.  It has nothing to do with being on your own. I can't quote the info for this one, but that's because I sold my Political Geography text book, and I don't remember the author's name.

*nods* yeah, figured out the demographic for sure, but the blatant jockeying under cover of "they are being manipulated" is kinda amusing.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Someone please save me from my state
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2013, 11:55:05 PM »
I have read several articles over the last two years lamenting the falling marriage rate among the post-boomer generations. Clearly, all millenials needed was harsher divorce laws to give that last real push to the altar.

Quote
"In these tough economic times, we need to be proactive in finding ways to save money. One day of early voting in North Carolina costs $98,000. Our counties bear this cost exclusively. Cutting back early voting from seventeen to ten days does this by saving roughly $686,000 per election. This money would be better used to hire teachers and first responders," [Republican Senator] Cook said.
(Emph mine.)

Did he just advocate for hiring more teachers? Like, spending money on education?


Offline Bandita

Re: Someone please save me from my state
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2013, 12:02:44 AM »
Yes, oh goodness... let us not get manipulated with all these 'facts' and 'sciences' and 'history.' 

I tend to follow NC politics because my mother lives there, and I've had to follow politics in general because I'm an American history major, and have taken lots of classes that forced me to follow the elections and also covered the history of the constitution. (not a law student, but in a lot of classes with them.) Not to mention being a politics junkie.  NC has a huge problem right now.  Textiles were dying on their own, but the tobacco industry is dying at the hands of tobacco taxes.  I understand how that affects the people in the industry, but the info on how dangerous the product is has been out there for years now, and they haven't made the effort to switch crops, and they should have.  In truth, I think it has been a failing of the state for years (both parties) to deny that it was a problem, and not offer enough incentives to farmers who switched their crops. (of course, big tobacco is also to blame for this.)

And Trieste, I truly admire your sarcasm.  I am sold.  All we need are harsher divorce laws.  Maybe Rush Limbaugh could move there.

Offline Ephiral

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Re: Someone please save me from my state
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2013, 12:04:05 AM »
They aren't taxing the polls. They are simply eliminating a tax break, like Bandita pointed out.

That was me, actually.

It's a good excuse.. been used a lot in the last five to six years. A LOT of voter suppresion was created over that 0.01% or so voter fraud at the polls.
Oh, I know it's been used heavily. Which is why I say the best response is to point out that it can't even be proven to have happened, let alone broadly enough to sway even the election of a town dogcatcher meaningfully.

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Re: Someone please save me from my state
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2013, 12:04:36 AM »
Did he just advocate for hiring more teachers? Like, spending money on education?


Teachers yay! - students nay!  ;) (and we all know how fine and smooth student funding is working, don't we?)

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Someone please save me from my state
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2013, 12:28:01 AM »
I have yet to see what I think will be the NEXT step  in the NC changes.. I think there will be a (bigger) push to privatize schooling and break up the public school system. Not just there but in a LOT of GOP dominated states. As a way to remove taxation that would normally go to schooling. That way they can go 'See.. we lowered taxes' (and blithely play off that they INCREASED the cost of eductation0

Offline Trieste

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Re: Someone please save me from my state
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2013, 12:29:02 AM »
It probably makes me a horrible person, but I kind of wish they would focus on that for a little while instead of the contents of my uterus. Personal bias, I admit, but it's a strong one.

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Someone please save me from my state
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2013, 12:35:33 AM »
It probably makes me a horrible person, but I kind of wish they would focus on that for a little while instead of the contents of my uterus. Personal bias, I admit, but it's a strong one.

Oh don't worry.. they can multitask.. I'm sure they are talking lessons from the folks north of them in Virginia. They are really really good at oppressing folks.

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Re: Someone please save me from my state
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2013, 12:39:19 AM »
Who needs history as a school subject when we've got The Bible on tv...? 

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Re: Someone please save me from my state
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2013, 12:40:29 AM »
They aren't taxing the polls. They are simply eliminating a tax break, like Bandita [sic] pointed out.

Or rather, they're taxing the polls under the excuse of "eliminating a tax break." The targeting of their sudden concern, and who the objects of that sudden concern would vote for, is nakedly obvious. It's the bog standard of modern GOP behaviour: find excuses to engage in vote suppression, because you know you just can't win any argument on the merits of your stance on any current issue at all.

Quote
I'm betting the next five election cycles in NC will be the most contentious and dirty in the state's history. Even worse than the Reconstruction era. You got a growing group of minorities who are growing and aren't sharing the southern democrat OR GOP outlook.

It's a good excuse.. been used a lot in the last five to six years. A LOT of voter suppresion was created over that 0.01% or so voter fraud at the polls.

All sounds plausible.