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Author Topic: Labels and Rules  (Read 701 times)

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Offline FlowerTopic starter

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Labels and Rules
« on: February 23, 2013, 05:31:04 PM »
I used to have labels and rules set up for my PM box but it messed up one day so I deleted them. Right now, I have deleted all of the rules and labels but it seems like there is some type of error which makes it seem like I still have one set up. I am not exactly sure what to do. I cleared my E cookies yet it did not help the mysterious label disappear. Now it seems like I have one new message but...I really don't.

:(

Offline Vekseid

Re: Labels and Rules
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2013, 06:19:08 PM »
Labels are really borked. I'll have to get to this manually : /

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Re: Labels and Rules
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2013, 06:26:48 PM »
Mine is doing the same DF.  I just figured it was a glitch.  It says I have an unopened message in one of my label "boxes" but theres nothing there that shows as "new" or unread.

Not a big deal but figured I'd let you know its on mine as well. I'm sure there are loads of others who have this issue as well.

Offline FlowerTopic starter

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Re: Labels and Rules
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2013, 06:29:25 PM »
Thank you.

I did think it was just mine muddling up since I have horrible luck.  ::)


Offline Caeli

Re: Labels and Rules
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2013, 11:27:44 PM »
Mine have also been completely borded. I have several empty labels that I attempted to delete, without success.

Offline Geraint

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Re: Labels and Rules
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2013, 03:53:41 AM »
I've done quite a bit of experimentation with labels, as I have a large number of them (one for each playing partner), and I have had a number of things go wrong whenever I tried to change them (just like everone else).  But I'm one of these people who likes poke at things and see how they work.  Each system has an internal logic of its own, even if the logic is totally screwed.  And I have found out a few simple things about the labeling system here, that allow me to work with it relatively trouble free.  They may not all be correct, but they seem to work for me, from my hit or miss experimentation. 

1.  Don't ever delete a label. unless it is the last label on the list (and not even then without deleting or relabeling the contents first).  Deleting the label shifts all the labels after it up one box, but does not shift their contents.  Therefore the contents of every label below the one deleted are subsequently wrong (off by one box on the list for every label deleted).

2.  Instead of deleting labels, I reuse them.  First I clear out the contents of the label, either by deleting the message threads or relabeling them (see 4c. below).  And then I simply edit the label title to what I want the new one to be, making it available for the new contents.  If I want to shorten my label list, I do the same thing, only move the contents of the last label into the one I no longer want, and relabel it, then delete the last label.

3.  Automatically moving PMs by using rules (in my experience, at least), is so fraught with perils that it may not be worth the trouble at all, especially as it is really easy to move either messages or whole message threads from the inbox to a label (which is what I do with all PM threads other that the most recent thread for each person).  That way, my inbox stays at about one page, and I can find things quickly.

[I look at (and move) PMs by threads, but what I say below applies equally to individual PMs; it just requires a lot more moving.  And when I say move here, I really mean change labels.]

4.  Moving PM threads (or individual PMs) from the inbox to a label is either a one-step or a two step process. 

4a.  If your preferences are set to remove the inbox label when you move posts to a label, then it's a single step.  You simply check the boxes on the threads (PMs) you want moved to a label, and then select the label they are to go to from the drop down list at the bottom right of the inbox.  Simply selecting the new label moves them after a few seconds.

4b.  If your preferences are set so as not to remove the inbox label when you move threads or posts, then you end up with two copies of the PMs you move, one in the inbox and one in the label.  This causes strange behavior when you try to delete PMs or PM threads, as they are listed in two places but physically in one, and generally get deleted from both lists (which, to me, was unexpected).

4c.  If you have PMs in both the inbox and a label, the way to get rid of them in one place but not the other other is to unlabel them (which you will find as an option as the very bottom of the labeling dropdown menu on the bottom right).

5.  Thus moving PMs from one label to another (or from the inbox when you don't have it set to automatically remove the inbox label) is a two-step process.  The first step is to add the new label as in 4. above.  After that step, you will see that your PMs are still in the label or inbox where they were, still checked.  Going back to the same drop down menu you used to add a label, you go to the bottom and clich the label of the original location that is listed under delete.  Then they disappear from the original location.

[My impression, BTW, is that deleting labels does not delete their contents, but rather perhaps orphans them (which could perhaps explain the seemingly phantom new message counts).  I have no evidence for that, though.]


I'm sure this won't take care of every labeling problem, but it has solved mine for me.  And if it can help anyone else, then I'll be delighted.

If not, feel free to ignore this.  :D


Edit:  corrected some typos and fuzzy wording
Edited again to strike out something that apparently didn't work.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 01:51:30 PM by Geraint »

Offline Martee

Re: Labels and Rules
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2013, 09:23:54 AM »
Geraint's work-around (hello there, Sir!) is precisely what I do too, as I also keep labels for each writing partner, all of my former Mentoring stuff, WIPs and discussions.  It gets to be a lot of labels, but it's still a lot less to manage than the 5k+ PMs I keep.  Of course, not having everything in neat, alphabetical order does make me twitch a little bit, but I'll take that over having to move every single organized PM.

I also never ever use Rules. I can't speak to whether or not they misbehave for me, since I use my InBox as a 'to-do' list.  Nothing gets filed until it gets replied to.

Just my 2 shiny pennies worth.

Offline FlowerTopic starter

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Re: Labels and Rules
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2013, 12:50:29 PM »
Thank you, everyone, for your comments and suggestions. I will keep that in mind from now on. :)

Offline Geraint

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Re: Labels and Rules
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2013, 12:53:38 PM »
Geraint's work-around (hello there, Sir!) is precisely what I do too, as I also keep labels for each writing partner, all of my former Mentoring stuff, WIPs and discussions.  It gets to be a lot of labels, but it's still a lot less to manage than the 5k+ PMs I keep.  Of course, not having everything in neat, alphabetical order does make me twitch a little bit, but I'll take that over having to move every single organized PM.

I also never ever use Rules. I can't speak to whether or not they misbehave for me, since I use my InBox as a 'to-do' list.  Nothing gets filed until it gets replied to.

Just my 2 shiny pennies worth.

Holy cow Batman, independent confirmation.  The scientist in me feels so ... validated.

Oh, and hi!


Thank you, everyone, for your comments and suggestions. I will keep that in mind from now on. :)

You're welcome, milady.  :)
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 12:57:29 PM by Geraint »

Offline Caeli

Re: Labels and Rules
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2013, 01:28:30 PM »
Did this:

1.  Don't ever delete a label unless it is the last label on the list (and not even then without deleting or relabeling the contents first).  Deleting the label shifts all the labels after it up one box, but does not shift their contents.  Therefore the contents of every label below the one deleted are subsequently wrong (off by one box on the list for every label deleted).

and it borked my labels even more than they already had been. May have been due to the fact that they were borked already. Deleting the last label listed actually removed the single label in my inbox that I do actually use, which was entirely unwelcome and frustrating. Luckily, I still remember which PMs were under that label, so it shouldn't be too hard to find them again.

I use the labels more like GMail's tagging system, rather than as an archive. For my purposes, our labeling system does actually work rather well for sorting messages from people, but doesn't have the specificity when creating rules/filters. With the number of messages I have, though, it's probably not worth it at this point to reorganize the old material unless I want to devote a good chunk of my day to it.

Offline Geraint

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Re: Labels and Rules
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2013, 01:48:49 PM »
Did this:

and it borked my labels even more than they already had been. May have been due to the fact that they were borked already. Deleting the last label listed actually removed the single label in my inbox that I do actually use, which was entirely unwelcome and frustrating. Luckily, I still remember which PMs were under that label, so it shouldn't be too hard to find them again.

I use the labels more like GMail's tagging system, rather than as an archive. For my purposes, our labeling system does actually work rather well for sorting messages from people, but doesn't have the specificity when creating rules/filters. With the number of messages I have, though, it's probably not worth it at this point to reorganize the old material unless I want to devote a good chunk of my day to it.

Oh dear, my apologies.  I've never had that happen.  :-[ I've edited my post accordingly.

It might be worth a try to create a new label at the bottom of the list to see if the contents reappear in it.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 01:53:12 PM by Geraint »

Offline Vekseid

Re: Labels and Rules
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2013, 03:50:15 PM »
Yeah, I've echoed the 'don't delete labels' advice before. Labels are not stored in a normalized fashion. If you have a lot of pms, there's no guaranteeing that deleting a label will reshuffle everything properly. In fact if you have more than a thousand or so I'm pretty sure it will -never- work.

Something I can do, though, is a complete reset for your labels, if you want. Then you can try re-applying rules and such.

Offline Geraint

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Re: Labels and Rules
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2013, 04:23:35 PM »
Yeah, I've echoed the 'don't delete labels' advice before. Labels are not stored in a normalized fashion. If you have a lot of pms, there's no guaranteeing that deleting a label will reshuffle everything properly. In fact if you have more than a thousand or so I'm pretty sure it will -never- work.

Something I can do, though, is a complete reset for your labels, if you want. Then you can try re-applying rules and such.

From my perspective, that would depend on whether you are talking about resetting labels individually or globally.

My labels are working just fine for me, and I have over 5,000 PMs, the only copies of which reside within labels (rather than the inbox).  So resetting labels could be disastrous to me.

If you could do it individually, especially for people who still have the originals in their inboxes that could well solve the problems for many people.

Offline Caeli

Re: Labels and Rules
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2013, 04:37:32 PM »
Yeah, I've echoed the 'don't delete labels' advice before. Labels are not stored in a normalized fashion. If you have a lot of pms, there's no guaranteeing that deleting a label will reshuffle everything properly. In fact if you have more than a thousand or so I'm pretty sure it will -never- work.

Something I can do, though, is a complete reset for your labels, if you want. Then you can try re-applying rules and such.

I wouldn't mind if you did that for mine, just for use as a guinea pig. It's not something I desperately need, though, so if it's any more involved than typing a few commands or clicking a few buttons, I'd as soon just leave them the way they are. >.>

Offline FlowerTopic starter

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Re: Labels and Rules
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2013, 06:33:42 PM »
Sorry I had not heard of the do not delete labels rules until now. I think I will just leave my pm box alone since it is still functional.

Offline Vekseid

Re: Labels and Rules
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2013, 01:55:53 AM »
From my perspective, that would depend on whether you are talking about resetting labels individually or globally.

My labels are working just fine for me, and I have over 5,000 PMs, the only copies of which reside within labels (rather than the inbox).  So resetting labels could be disastrous to me.

If you could do it individually, especially for people who still have the originals in their inboxes that could well solve the problems for many people.

A label is not a copy.

A pm is stored in labels according to a line in your recipient notice (which tracks which pms were sent to you, if you've 'read' it, if you've 'deleted' it, etc.). It might look like 0,14,19 - being stored in your 'Inbox' and two of your labels. Resetting your pms is nothing fancy at all - I just set them all to your 'Inbox', wipe your rules and labels.

Offline Geraint

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Re: Labels and Rules
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2013, 02:05:16 AM »
A label is not a copy.

A pm is stored in labels according to a line in your recipient notice (which tracks which pms were sent to you, if you've 'read' it, if you've 'deleted' it, etc.). It might look like 0,14,19 - being stored in your 'Inbox' and two of your labels. Resetting your pms is nothing fancy at all - I just set them all to your 'Inbox', wipe your rules and labels.

Thank you Vekseid, that is some relief to know. 

But it would still cause me day's worth of effort moving them back into labels that are working for me now (based on what it took me to sort them there three months ago).  So if there's an option, I'd just as soon avoid it. :)