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Author Topic: John McCain scares me.  (Read 4499 times)

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Offline kongming

Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2008, 11:15:43 PM »
This is something I read on another forum.  I like it alot and I actually agree with most of it.

I can think of no reason at all why an intelligent person would say what was said. Therefore, I feel that agreement with it is a huge mistake, and the only reason an intelligent person would agree with and like it is if they were in a shitty mood and needed someone else to blame - seeing as that message basically takes the approach of "everyone I don't like is responsible for all the problems in the world."

Because I want to believe you're an intelligent person (without knowing you in person), I'm going to assume you were just in a shitty mood.

Edited to be less offensive.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2008, 01:15:59 AM by kongming »

Offline The Overlord

Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2008, 12:13:54 AM »
Too much jingoism for me...especially in view of how recent events are showing rather conclusively that those who sat out the Iraq war were probably onto something after all.


That's true enough, but it's more than that.


Quote
We are tired of the one-way highway.
Immediately, we\ll be drilling for oil in Alaska - which will take care
of this country\s oil needs for decades to come. If you\re an
environmentalist who opposes this decision, I refer you to List 2 above:
pick a country and move there.'

.....


Mexico is also on List 2; its president
and his entire corrupt government really need an attitude adjustment. I
will have a couple extra thousand tanks and infantry divisions sitting
around. Guess where I am going to put \em? Yep, border security.


I am ordering the immediate severing of
diplomatic relations with France , Germany , and Russia . Thanks for all
your help, comrades. We are retiring from NATO as well. Bonne chance,
mez amies.


....


A special note to our neighbors. Canada
is on List 2. Since we are likely to be seeing a lot more of each other,
you folks might want to try not pissing us off for a change.


...


To the nations on List 2, a final
thought:

You might want to learn to speak Arabic.


These in particular rub me badly, because something like it comes up with very tiring frequency on many forums I've visited. It's practically a hard right slogan and it stinks of hypocrisy. I don't want to derail this thread but I must speak up on this one. The right often accuses liberals of arrogance, of looking down our noses at them, and you know what? Sometimes we are, and this quote sums up why. I hear it a lot; get with 'our' program or get the fuck out of 'our' country. It's dirty filthy intolerance and every time I see it, I'd like find the would-be cowboy that said it, break his beer bottle over his head and show him the door.

Fuck you John Wayne, fuck you for not thinking past your next tank of gas, fuck you for not considering something much bigger than yourself, and fuck you moron for pushing one more species to the brink of extinction just so one more upright-walking ape can tank up his truck. What a marvelous legacy of misguided evolution you're leaving behind...oh wait, I forgot, you don't believe in Evolution.


And if you want to give to give an 'attitude adjustment' to every brown person in a nation that doesn't happen agree with us, go knock yourself out asshole. For everyone one of you, there's probably five brown people that want to give you an attitude adjustment. You might even be good enough to get one, two and three, but odds are better that four or five will get you.



Ok...rant off, I just had to get that off my chest.  >:(






« Last Edit: June 07, 2008, 12:17:25 AM by The Overlord »

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2008, 01:37:30 AM »
What's really funny are the flag-wavers who think we've got a couple of Ghawars tucked neatly under the tundra of Alaska and the continental shelf of North America, and who apparently can't distinguish between oil shale and liquid crude.

Getting back to McCain, I just don't think he's ready for the America that's just around the corner.  The oil shortage and three decades of gross mismanagement of the treasury are about to hit us upside the head with a clue-by-four, and McCain is going to waste more time and resources trying to figure out who to bomb in retaliation, or who to invade.  The problem we're facing is technical and scientific.  It needs to be solved in the laboratory, not the battlefield.

Offline The Overlord

Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2008, 04:30:22 AM »


Getting back to McCain, I just don't think he's ready for the America that's just around the corner. 

That's because he's still living around the last corner, smack-dab in the middle of the Cold War.



The problem we're facing is technical and scientific.  It needs to be solved in the laboratory, not the battlefield.


Word.

Offline KathadonTopic starter

Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2008, 11:44:13 AM »
Honestly a major restructuring of alot of the last centuries institutions is around the corner. And John McCain has no clue how or any desire to get that ball rolling.

Detroit is going to have to retool drastically to compete with Japan's auto makers. Honestly they were living in a bubble themselves with the whole SUV craze. Of coarse they thought our "liberation" of Iraq was supposed to help the oil market. G.W. promised. *snorts* Now they are struggling and cutting shifts and closing SUV factories. Umm retool and start making them hybrids idiots. Or dust off that electric car you guys scraped before 2000. Oh no can't do that. Big Oil doesn't want to be out of the loop with the whole plug in car thing. Their whine of, "Think of all the gas stations. Oh won't someone think of the poor gas station owners." Please. The average middle class family might be able to buy a hybrid or electric car. Most gas station owners would still be relevant for at least five years. Not to mention they are suffering a slow death as it is now anyway with prices so high.

Our outdated fear of nuclear and disbelief in alternative energy sources has to go away. And the whole 'not in my backyard' argument is quickly becoming null and void. "Sorry you like your view, but we need to put a few dozen wind turbines/solar farm here so you can run your home entertainment center." ;)

If every building was mandated, and given a U.S. tax voucher like they plan to do with the stupid HDTV thing, to install solar panels on the roof we could start using our coal for gas. The latest silicon panels are twice as efficient as the last generation and the talk is thee next generation will be 10 times better. Oh but think of the utility companies....*blech*

Also the speculative aspect of the stock market needs to be regulated. Sure the Ted Turner and Bill Gates types are getting richer but the middle class is suffering now. A 10 dollar increase in the price of oil in one day because the Prime Minister of Israel said, "a war with Iran was inevitable"? Come on, give me a break.

A relic of the Cold War like John McCain with his hands off approach will cause us all alot of grief. Times like this call for leadership. Not business as usual, 'let the market decide' nonsense. The CONSUMERS have few choices because the market has stiffled all alternatives in the last two decades. A handful of CEO's and corporations with their hands in a number of industries and bank rolling so many of our politicians have caused all of the current problems.

Offline Sherona

Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2008, 12:12:49 PM »
I would like to add that most gas stations don't make their profit from gas sales. In Oklahoma they are only allowed to mark up their gas 8 cents higher then what they themselves bought it for a gallon. Gas stations biggest money makers are the impulse buys that customers who stop for gas buy. Sodas, candy, the occasionally sky-high priced milk for those who just ran out but don't want to make a trip all the wya into town. So the "think of the poor gas stations" don't really work well as the only thing they will lose would be the attraction of the customers.

Nine times out of ten the customers dont really stop for soda and candy, they stop for gas and just buy that while they are there..but I am sure ingenious gas station owners will come up with more draws..(Lottery tickets anyone?) :)

Offline KathadonTopic starter

Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2008, 12:28:31 PM »
Exactly Sherona. But Big Oil, Shell in particular, has made the death of the gas station supplie chain an argument for waiting for the hydrogen car to be ready. When we already have the electric car's design sitting in mothballs at GM.

If anyone has never watched the documentary of "Who Killed the Electric Car" I'd highly recommend it. It really shows just how close to oil independence we came in the 90's just to have Detroit and Big Oil kill the whole thing. In fact it will probably make you angry, I know it made me mad.

Offline Zakharra

Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2008, 12:51:44 PM »
 I'm not sure the electric car is the panacea that some put it out to be. The size of batteries needed are large and over time, do degrade. They aren't cheap to replace either. Where a internal combustion engine can run for decades with decent maintinence. 

 There's also the problem where are they coulg to get the electricity needed to recharge it? On hybrids, I understand the internal combustion engine can recharge it, but on a pure electric car? I know that I would not let anyone plug one of those things into a wall socket at my house for a recharge. I'm not goign to get stuck with the electricity bill that recharge would make.

  Which brings up the question of where would all of the electricity come from? A nation wide roll out of electric cars means much higher electrical demand. Especially in the summer months when demand is higher.

 Hydrogen isn't an easy answer either. It takes a good amount of electricity to break water into oxygen and hydrogen. Plus, hydrogen isn't as efficent as gas is in an engine. You'd either need bigger tanks or make more stops. smaller engines will only go so far when you need a decent sized vehical to carry the family or a truck for work. Plus you can't move hydrogen in pipes. It has to be moved by tanker trucks/trains. Since it has a tendacy to absorb water. Making it more likely to rust and/or freeze in an engine of fuel line.

 Like it or not, we need oil as the fuel of this ecnomy. It's out there if we just have the will to get it.

Offline Zakharra

Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2008, 12:53:04 PM »
 Ok, that was more than slightly off topic, but I do not think any of the Presidential candidates has an answer. Certainly not a faux Republican like Mc Cain.

Offline KathadonTopic starter

Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2008, 12:57:21 PM »
heh this topic went off abit ago, Zakharra, but is has been a good discussion anyway.




Offline Trieste

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Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2008, 02:56:54 PM »
I'm not sure what their sources are, but I read an article in MSN Money not long ago called "What if gas were $10 a gallon?" or something along those lines (too lazy to go dig it up, so y'all'll have to google it yourselves) that discussed varying solutions to our oil issue (specifically, what if it got to be too expensive for the average person to use as easily as they do now) and electric engines were brought up... I believe the numbers they gave on how many plug-in cars our power grid could handle were very optimistic, but I'm no power specialist. It was an interesting article, however MSN Money tends to write a lot of articles aimed at the comfortably-middle-class and it's not uncommon for me to stare at the words in an article and ask "How is someone like me going to pay for that?" Must be nice to have disposable income consistently. I'll get there someday. :P

And bullshit, they're thinking about the poor little lonesome convenience store owners. One of the biggest moneymakers for them (at least back when I worked in one) is cigarette sales. People go through 1, 2 packs a day and it's money they spend without a second thought unless they're thinking of quitting. Most people are hooked for life. Recent tax hikes on cigs have made them difficult to afford, and higher profit doesn't even go to the sellers in exchange for the slow-down in sales. If they pass the two-dollar-and-change per pack increase here (all taxes), even I will have to quit, and I love smoking. Don't want to quit. Know I should. Could save some money if I would. But I don't wanna ... so in light of that and Sherona's statement, the 'poor little convenience store owners' argument doesn't fly with me.

Gawd, they drive me crazy.

Offline Sherona

Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2008, 03:54:11 PM »
I'm not sure what their sources are, but I read an article in MSN Money not long ago called "What if gas were $10 a gallon?" or something along those lines (too lazy to go dig it up, so y'all'll have to google it yourselves) that discussed varying solutions to our oil issue (specifically, what if it got to be too expensive for the average person to use as easily as they do now) and electric engines were brought up... I believe the numbers they gave on how many plug-in cars our power grid could handle were very optimistic, but I'm no power specialist. It was an interesting article, however MSN Money tends to write a lot of articles aimed at the comfortably-middle-class and it's not uncommon for me to stare at the words in an article and ask "How is someone like me going to pay for that?" Must be nice to have disposable income consistently. I'll get there someday. :P

And bullshit, they're thinking about the poor little lonesome convenience store owners. One of the biggest moneymakers for them (at least back when I worked in one) is cigarette sales. People go through 1, 2 packs a day and it's money they spend without a second thought unless they're thinking of quitting. Most people are hooked for life. Recent tax hikes on cigs have made them difficult to afford, and higher profit doesn't even go to the sellers in exchange for the slow-down in sales. If they pass the two-dollar-and-change per pack increase here (all taxes), even I will have to quit, and I love smoking. Don't want to quit. Know I should. Could save some money if I would. But I don't wanna ... so in light of that and Sherona's statement, the 'poor little convenience store owners' argument doesn't fly with me.

Gawd, they drive me crazy.

Whats said is I completely forgot abuot ciggerette sales...of course I live in Oklahoma where Indian Smoke Shops do not charge a state tax on ciggerettes due to them being on Native American land..so ciggerettes are extremely cheaper there then they are in convience stores. The brand I smoked while Not pregnant costs 18$ a carton while at walmart they are 22$ a carton...and since a carton lasts me 2 weeks (I smoked less then a pack a day) i really didnt spend a lot on them, which is probably why I forgot about them. But yes they are definitely most places biggest sellers.

Offline ShrowdedPoet

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Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2008, 07:12:22 PM »
In my own defense I thought it was funny and thought that people would get a laugh out of it too and I'm a slight isolationist so I would love that we didn't go around trying to liberate the whole world.  I'm sorry it offended people.  I just thought it was funny.  Carry on.

Offline KathadonTopic starter

Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2008, 04:16:43 AM »
Honestly it is funny Poet and I am sure everyone here feels those sentiments once in awhile. Even those from other countries, who wish the U.S. would butt out of policing the world, probably wish we'd say that once in awhile. Not acting on them though is what makes a good leader, but the U.S. couldn't do that even if we were the nation of cowboys that the world thinks we are. ;D

Sadly enough we are to important a player on the world stage, to just take our ball and go home. :P

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Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2008, 04:20:45 AM »
I have to admit, there are times when I want to just vent my rage by going to the White House and writing on the lawn in 100-foot burning letters of DOOM "Take care of your own before everyone else!"

Whoever it is that's next in office, I hope to god they have a better domestic policy than "Roll with the punches, y'all ... and, uh, build your levees higher..."

Blech.

Offline KathadonTopic starter

Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2008, 04:34:24 AM »
I could so hear those words coming outa G.W.'s mouth. Anyone else noticing he is doing a world tour all of the sudden just like his daddy did in '92?

Do you think his being out of the country will help McCain?

Offline kongming

Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2008, 06:50:37 AM »
Well, "Being an Isolationist" is different from merely being sick of dealing with other countries' problems, and both of those are different from what that message was saying. That message was "Fuck the rest of you. We're doing what we want, when we want, and we'll bomb anyone who disagrees with us. Also, we should bomb our neighbours and take them over, because they'd want to do the same to us, but we're bigger. Besides, I don't like them there foreign coloured folk."

The people with that attitude should instead just take a page of "regular isolationist", or better yet, become proper isolationists and, well, isolate themselves from everyone else. As individual people, not as a collective nation. Preferably somewhere where no-one else will accidentally come across them, such as the middle of the desert or the polar ice caps. Definitely away from civilisation. After all, we wouldn't want them to have to deal with the existence of other people now.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2008, 04:30:06 PM »
Honestly it is funny Poet and I am sure everyone here feels those sentiments once in awhile. Even those from other countries, who wish the U.S. would butt out of policing the world, probably wish we'd say that once in awhile. Not acting on them though is what makes a good leader, but the U.S. couldn't do that even if we were the nation of cowboys that the world thinks we are. ;D

Sadly enough we are to important a player on the world stage, to just take our ball and go home. :P
The problem with you Americans is that you're caught in a Catch-22.  Since world war 2 you have been seen on the international stage as a 'mover and shaker'.  You set up the UN, NATO and several other organizations that support the world as we know it.

Assume that some country is being attack by a neighbour.

If you do something, you're seen as the villain for interfering.

If you do nothing, you're seen as a villain for not helping your fellow man.

No one cares for the real reason which is securing resources for themselves.  Which by the way, the rest of the world is doing too.  Just not as loudly.  After all the rest of the world doesn't allow an organization like CNN to exist.

And now for the token Canucklehead's view:

As for Cowboy with the putting Canada on list '2', I'd like to point out, as a Canadian Citizen, that we too are putting pressure on our politicians to bring OUR boys back home.  'Boys' we sent at YOUR government's prompting, Mr, Cowboy.

A lot of us Canadians are kind of resentful that everything you Americans do, the local politicians feel the need to copy or somehow support our neighbours across the border.  And then you try and screw us with the Soft Lumber crap and fishing.  And for the record, Canadians have been opposed to Free Trade across the borders because WE got the shaft because of our weaker dollar at the time.

So, Mr. Cowboy get the bottle out of our ass, and look at the REST of the world, just not your back yard.  After all, the NEXT time you have a 9/11 or Katrina level disaster, pissing US off means no help with disaster relief from us.

My little Rant is over.

Fun Factoid for those of you who actually think the U.S. has issues at home.  Did you know that the UN has listed Canada as one of the worst places to live if your poor?  We aren't quite at the bottom, but we're definitely NOT a nice place to live without money.  We're to busy throwing our money into peacekeeping missions and disaster relief than actually focusing on issues at home.

Offline The Overlord

Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #43 on: June 09, 2008, 01:34:37 AM »
I have to admit, there are times when I want to just vent my rage by going to the White House and writing on the lawn in 100-foot burning letters of DOOM "Take care of your own before everyone else!"


I'm sure that's fairly deep into the current definition of terrorism, but for the record I feel you here.

Offline Trieste

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Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #44 on: June 09, 2008, 01:52:12 AM »
I'm sure that's fairly deep into the current definition of terrorism, but for the record I feel you here.

I guess I better watch for phone taps and make sure all my cash is secure. :P

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #45 on: June 11, 2008, 03:38:07 PM »
Oh, I think current events are going to light a fire under the asses of politicians to take care of America first.

Judging from what I'm seeing so far, the trigger is going to be when oil passes $150 a barrel, maybe $165 at the highest.  That's going to be the death of the American Way.  That's going to be the turning point, beyond which people realize just what a clusterfuck the Iraq situation is.  When gas gets to $5.50 a gallon or so, the suburbs are going to die, slowly and painfully.  They're already getting a bit yellow around the edges...or, maybe a sickly shade of green from all the algae growing in the untended pools of those foreclosed homes.

There are millions of borrowers out there who, out of a desire to keep their homes and credit ratings, or servile devotion to capitalism and "doing the right thing," have so far sucked it in and kept paying their mortgages even as cold cuts were replaced by Spam and the vacation on the coast turned to an afternoon at the local river bottoms.  But once you add an extra $200 a month in fuel costs, that won't be an option.  There's only so much "fat" a family can trim from its budget, and with the standard of living in America already in decline before peak oil, most families were rather lean already.  So the foreclosure crisis isn't nearly over.  It hasn't even peaked.  It's just begun.

In the end, John McCain is toast, unless a miracle occurs.  And when I say "miracle," I mean aliens landing huge "V"-type spaceships, only instead of wanting to suck our water, they want to sell us a few million barrels per day of light sweet crude in exchange for securitized mortgages and chicken processing plant waste.  Barring that, Bush is looking to go out as less popular than Jimmy Carter.  Perhaps if he'd made a concerted effort starting last summer, McCain could have uncoupled himself from the Bush legacy.  But in re-affirming support for the Iraq fiasco, McCain missed the last lifeboat off that sinking ship. 

Offline Zakharra

Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #46 on: June 11, 2008, 11:41:26 PM »
 Oil has not peaked. Where does that rumor keep getting started? There are hundreds of billions of barrels out there still.

Offline Vekseid

Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #47 on: June 12, 2008, 05:23:31 AM »
Oil has not peaked. Where does that rumor keep getting started? There are hundreds of billions of barrels out there still.

Peak oil refers to production rates, specifically conventional oil, not how much 'is left'. Year on year world production declined by .2% from 2006 to 2007, and proven reserves have not increased. Regardless, however, supply is now chasing demand, no matter what anyone claims.

Offline Zakharra

Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #48 on: June 12, 2008, 02:22:37 PM »
 Aahh.. I've always been told it's how much oil there is in the ground.

Offline Nephili

Re: John McCain scares me.
« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2008, 09:39:11 PM »


On a similar note:

Disclaimer: I don't think that the republicans would really nominate or vote for Voldemort, even if he does remind me of Dick Cheney

Make it Nuclear!

The first fusion power plant isn't expected to go on-line until 2050, and IFMIF and ITER aren't even properly running yet. Unfortunately for perhaps a lot of the world, the US, Russia, Canada and Australia have few concerns about coal shortages. Economics will force nuclear power back onto the stage, and some previously anti-nuke types are finally seeing the light.

Coal liquefaction and shale will probably help, at least the United States, though the final answer is probably going to be algaculture.

In my opinion, the future of nuclear isn't more reactors like we have now... or even fusion. It's micro reactors like this one here. The smaller size makes it safer, it has the potential to be cheaper then current energy solutions, and perhaps best of all... it's a long ways in the future, but eventually, combined with other tech, it could help to de-centralize our nations power grid.  Having a few big power plants serving large areas has significant downsides... transmitting electricity over long distances means a lot of power is lost just on the transmission... and anyone remember when half the east coast had a blackout a few years ago? If every town generated it's own power, something like that would be virtually impossible. In fact, theres a remote town in Alaska that's already in the planning stages of installing on of these!

This is something I read on another forum.  I like it alot and I actually agree with most of it.

Which ever candidate first gives this
speech, will get my vote.

I don't have anything to much to say in response that hasn't already been said better then I could, so I'll just keep it short: No... please... I know it's an ultimatum that's been much overused in the last few years... but if a candidate who made this speech was ever elected... I would seriously consider moving overseas.

I'm not sure the electric car is the panacea that some put it out to be. The size of batteries needed are large and over time, do degrade. They aren't cheap to replace either. Where a internal combustion engine can run for decades with decent maintinence. 

 There's also the problem where are they coulg to get the electricity needed to recharge it? On hybrids, I understand the internal combustion engine can recharge it, but on a pure electric car? I know that I would not let anyone plug one of those things into a wall socket at my house for a recharge. I'm not goign to get stuck with the electricity bill that recharge would make.

  Which brings up the question of where would all of the electricity come from? A nation wide roll out of electric cars means much higher electrical demand. Especially in the summer months when demand is higher.

 Hydrogen isn't an easy answer either. It takes a good amount of electricity to break water into oxygen and hydrogen. Plus, hydrogen isn't as efficent as gas is in an engine. You'd either need bigger tanks or make more stops. smaller engines will only go so far when you need a decent sized vehical to carry the family or a truck for work. Plus you can't move hydrogen in pipes. It has to be moved by tanker trucks/trains. Since it has a tendacy to absorb water. Making it more likely to rust and/or freeze in an engine of fuel line.

 Like it or not, we need oil as the fuel of this ecnomy. It's out there if we just have the will to get it.

I strongly disagree with all of this... we don't need the will to get oil, we need the will to get OFF of oil. Global warming IS a serious problem, no matter how much people try to deny it... and I challenge anyone here to say it's "too expensive" to change, or it's "not that big a problem" after reading this, this, or this...  I can just see the conversation at the UN... Country A: "It's not economically feasible for my country to reduce emissions by that much." Tiny Country B: "Well, it's even less economically feasible for my country to be swallowed up by the rising sees, so figure something out!" We have the potential to create a country that dosn't burn an ounce of oil, THATS what we need the will for. Seriously, besides nuclear, theres wind (admittedly not a complete solution, but definatly something that could make a significant contribution), [img=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_power]http://tidal power[/img] (Beginning to show some real potential, and unlike wind and solar, it's fairly reliable... it's not like the tides are going to stop coming anytime soon), even solar (These new flexible solar panels are much, much cheaper then previous solar technology, and able to be applied to almost any surface... the only problem is, the company is still small... they're sold out for the next 12 months! Just think, if we would invest in this rather then the war... Every new house in the US with a solar roof, generating a sizable portion of it's electricity... every new electric car with these on the roof... with the cost these things are at already, it's possible, and they can still go a lot lower if they can truly mass produce them... this has the potential to be huge.)


Anyway, now that I've gotten that out of my system, I'll say SOMETHING thats on topic... Honestly, if John McCain was the same politician he was a couple years ago, I'd seriously consider voting for him... I didn't agree with everything he said, but I could at least respect him for being honest about his views, even when they conflicted with the leadership of his party. Now, though, he's going back on so much of what he used to say, just to appease the party base it seems, and it's honestly really disappointing. :/