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Author Topic: A brief poll on Player vs. Player in a forum  (Read 1046 times)

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Offline CiosaTopic starter

A brief poll on Player vs. Player in a forum
« on: February 03, 2013, 12:03:12 PM »
This is in relationship to a game I'm considering running, in which direct violence between characters controlled by different players is highly likely, and may result in the permanent death of a character.  That is not the summary point of the game, but a possible risk in the game world, albeit one that has to be considered more carefully than many other game choices.

Please let me know any additional thoughts you might have.

Offline Naiah

Re: A brief poll on Player vs. Player in a forum
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2013, 12:07:15 PM »
Consent from both, have that and there would be no issues :)

Offline Kuroneko

Re: A brief poll on Player vs. Player in a forum
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2013, 12:08:41 PM »
I pick option one and two - direct consent from both players and it should reflect the game world. Anything else is NC in the extreme.

Offline Mithlomwen

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Re: A brief poll on Player vs. Player in a forum
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2013, 12:10:32 PM »
I said 'all of the above'. 

Offline Lilias

Re: A brief poll on Player vs. Player in a forum
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2013, 12:10:40 PM »
My tabletopper self says that it can happen, depending on the game world, and the GM should make sure every player understands the possibility. My forumite self, who does strictly one-on-ones, is happy with consent on both sides. :-)

Offline Phaia

Re: A brief poll on Player vs. Player in a forum
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2013, 12:39:47 PM »
I picked 'all of the above' especially making sure new players are aware of the possibility.

Phaia
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 11:36:05 AM by Phaia »

Offline Josietta

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Re: A brief poll on Player vs. Player in a forum
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2013, 12:40:28 PM »
I chose all of the above.

I think PvP can be taken wrong if done between two players who clash OOC and IC.  Especially OOC.  I think PvP should be closely monitored to watch for blow ups like that. 

Personally I don't have issue with it as long as those lines are drawn before hand.

Offline CiosaTopic starter

Re: A brief poll on Player vs. Player in a forum
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2013, 12:42:18 PM »
I wasn't meaning it in the context of shadowrun, Phaia.  It was looking for general thoughts on the subject.

Offline Moraline

Re: A brief poll on Player vs. Player in a forum
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2013, 01:33:57 PM »
If it's that type of a game then "All of the Above." (At least in as much as is fitting for the game itself.)

Personally when I have some sort of PvP or potential form of character death in a game, I prefer to forgo any form of actual character death and opt for character comas. Then let the player decide if they wish the character to die or not. I feel there is more value in "nearly" losing a character then in actually losing one. Penalties for near death can be decided on a per game basis, all dependent on the type of game that it is.

Offline Ligeia

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Re: A brief poll on Player vs. Player in a forum
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2013, 03:45:52 PM »
I agree with Moraline. It should be an all of the above because some people may not want their character to kick the bucket, but they shouldn't get off scot free if they lose either. 

Offline Michael Corvus

Re: A brief poll on Player vs. Player in a forum
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2013, 04:48:10 PM »
This is a bit tricky. I voted for all of the above, but there are a few sticking points even to that. I agree wholeheartedly with Josi's reasoning of potentially creating an outlet for OOC tension and frustrations to be directed towards killing someone's character. There's also the potential outlet of one player assuming such OOC to IC behavior, resulting in accusations being made, creating a mountain of drama from a mole hill of misunderstanding. OOC drama is never good.

However, as Ligeia said, even if they're informed of the possibility of character death beforehand, there's a good chance that a large majority of players aren't going to want they're characters to die, understandably so, and thus even in situations where death would be imminent, players will not agree

Moraline had a great idea, placing the characters in a GM appointed coma for a length of time and with physical/psychological damage to be determined by the GM based on whatever event they encountered to put them there, and then let them decide if they die. But there again, most people aren't going to agree to have their player killed.

So, the "With consent from both parties" is 50/50 for me. On the one hand, you might not get too many players whose characters may die at a moment's notice without their consent (or you might get very shallow, hastily thrown together characters as a result), but on the other hand, if you have to have consent, is anyone REALLY going to agree to allow their character to be killed off?

Offline Cold Heritage

Re: A brief poll on Player vs. Player in a forum
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2013, 05:07:34 PM »
I voted for 'all of the above.' I think that the consequences should be generally in favour of the players, though - it sits wrongly with me if the authorities solve the case quickly. And then you're down two characters instead of one.

For me, regarding consent to kill off a character, it sort of depends on how invested I am in that character, in that game, and how the character would die. I'm willing to let a character go in a game even if I'm invested in both if the death is good. I'd love to have a 'you shall not pass!' moment.

Offline Moraline

Re: A brief poll on Player vs. Player in a forum
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2013, 05:09:12 PM »
On the subject of near death experiences...

((... from Palladium Books RPG's ))

Quote
Trauma
I've found that having a character roll on the insanity tables after a terrible trauma is very appropriate, realistic and fun,
adding a new element to the game. What constitutes a traumatic experience is, in part, up to the game master and the actual situation.

RANDOM INSANITY TABLE
(Resulting from Trauma) Roll percentile dice.
1-10 Reborn. Alignment reversal; good becomes evil, evil
becomes good (selfish becomes principled or scrupulous).
11-20 Neurosis. Roll on the table that follows.
21-25 Compulsive Liar, even if of a good alignment.
26-30 Kleptomaniac. A compulsion to steal, even if of a good
alignment.
31-40 Obsession. Roll on the table that follows.
41-50 Phobia. Roll on the table that follows.
51-60 Psychosis. Roll on the table that follows.
61-70 Fear of Animals; see neurosis.
71-80 Recluse. Prefers to be alone, quiet, unobtrusive.
81-90 Affective Disorder. Roll on the table that follows.
91-00 Fear of the Dark; see neurosis.

Note: More than one phobia, obsession, psychosis, and affective
disorder is possible. If the same one is rolled, ignore it and
roll again.

cont... ((There's a whole section dedicated to this subject))




Offline Thufir Hawat

Re: A brief poll on Player vs. Player in a forum
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2013, 05:21:26 PM »
Personally, I think it should be options 2 and 3 at once, but couldn't vote "all of the above". By accepting the possibility it might happen, you're giving implicit permission for it to happen, as far as I'm concerned (of course, the games I play or run also give you means to react and defend).
So, "reflect the game world; if one character wants to kill another, it should be reflected in appropriate legal/social/psychological/other reactions in game" and OOC, "both players should have accepted the possibility". If someone can't accept it, they should probably re-consider whether the game is a good fit for them. The key is not to have it become an OOC problem, whether the attempt is successful IC or not.

So, the "With consent from both parties" is 50/50 for me. On the one hand, you might not get too many players whose characters may die at a moment's notice without their consent (or you might get very shallow, hastily thrown together characters as a result), but on the other hand, if you have to have consent, is anyone REALLY going to agree to allow their character to be killed off?
In my experience, no, this doesn't lead to shallow characters. If anything, I've seen more characters becoming shallow after the player realised the PC wouldn't die without their consent (when this wasn't clear at the start). I kinda prefer characters like Oedipus, Romeo and Juliet are preferable in my book to Donald Duck.
Of course, that's just my approach, and if anyone can't feel attached to a character that could be killed, they just shouldn't play in a game where this is possible.

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Re: A brief poll on Player vs. Player in a forum
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2013, 08:56:33 PM »
If I was making a character for such a game, it would be a brand new concept, so honestly, if it worked with the story, and was done 'legally' so to speak, I would't mind. If it was a character I'd spent a bunch of time playing, and was highly invested, it might hurt a bit to see that character die.

Offline alxnjsh

Re: A brief poll on Player vs. Player in a forum
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2013, 08:47:44 PM »
Depends on the game - we kill people off all the time in the mystery social threads ;)

Offline CiosaTopic starter

Re: A brief poll on Player vs. Player in a forum
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2013, 08:49:34 PM »
Thank you all so much for your input and your thoughts on this matter.    The thinking involved was for a game where players could be alleged to different factions, some of which might have mutually exclusive goals.  I was havign a hard time working around the possibility that this might pit players into direct conflict with one another, but I think I have a number of workarounds now.

Thanks again!  (I'm going to keep the poll open, just cause I'm curious as to any further thoughts people have.)

Offline Veluux

Re: A brief poll on Player vs. Player in a forum
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2013, 01:15:42 AM »
In my game MARVEL: A New Fate, it's generally understood that PvP will be required for the game to reach a conclusion (though it almost feels like it's a sandbox style game - with a progressive plotline).

I didn't really think through the PvP aspect to great detail - but in the recruitment thread I did establish that any serious harm or death of characters would require consent by the victim player via a PM exchange.

It's completely and 100% freeform combat; to which I added a simple single dice roll to pre-determine the winning party of a conflict (as there are really only two factions - given the extremity of global conflict and complete human genocide). Essentially a preset-sided dice is rolled for each participant in a large battle, to account for that character's "contribution" and the totals for each side are added up to see which party rolled the higher combined score (both sides having the same maximum score - making the odds of winning or losing generally 50/50).

I think it's going well so far. It creates a very fair system - without mucking up Freeform combat with tons of dice rules. It gets everyone involved on the same page so they know ultimately who is going to win before the fight really even kicks off. Then it's up to all the involved writers to produce the outcome (as creatively and at whatever pace they wish).

It's working well so far. I haven't gotten any complaints yet (other than hardcore Freeformer's not knowing how - or having any desire to use the dice bot), but the way it's designed the GM can roll dice for all the character's anyways. I offered to make the rolls for each conflict for my Co-GMs that were uncomfortable doing so. I'm liking it thus far. It's not labor intensive, and the clearly defined rules seem to limit (or completely eliminate) player's from having issues with the outcome. It's all laid out in advance.

Utilizing some similar system (even for a freeform game like my own), it makes the player vs player interactions very clean cut - while giving them that near-infinite possibility and flexibility for writing out a fight scene however they wish. I've also given a provision that if all parties involved are already in agreement about a victor, then dice don't even need to be rolled (for specific storytelling and sub-plot arcs). It's been smooth sailing so far.

*Knocks on wood.*