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Author Topic: The World of Darkness Thread  (Read 11095 times)

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Offline Moraline

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2012, 01:47:00 PM »
Big fan of the Old World of Darkness - Vampire: The Masquerade. The setting, the races, the politics and oh yes... I could never forget that the first time I ever talked dirty to a boy in public was at a VtM table top game. It's not like I did it a lot, but certainly being seductive was a part of game play.

I'm not overly familiar with the nWoD. I hear good and bad things.

Quirky personal trivia fact: My first online user name ever was: Torea (dor)

Also, this is still one of my favorite video games ever:

Offline Lilias

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2012, 02:12:40 PM »
Mage has suffered by the loss of the team's best writers, Phil Brucato and Kathleen Ryan. If they had stayed on, perhaps Awakening would have worked.

My biggest beef with the oWoD-nWoD transition is that there was none. Complete rift. In Greece, where I was at the time, even the oWoD books were pulled from the shelves. I spent a few years of misery before DriveThru came along. Considering the previous attitude of 'feel free to use, abuse, modify or completely disregard rules', the effort to stop people playing oWoD altogether smacks of WotC merger clause.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2012, 02:15:46 PM »
Mage has suffered by the loss of the team's best writers, Phil Brucato and Kathleen Ryan. If they had stayed on, perhaps Awakening would have worked.

My biggest beef with the oWoD-nWoD transition is that there was none. Complete rift. In Greece, where I was at the time, even the oWoD books were pulled from the shelves. I spent a few years of misery before DriveThru came along. Considering the previous attitude of 'feel free to use, abuse, modify or completely disregard rules', the effort to stop people playing oWoD altogether smacks of WotC merger clause.

What I heard.. from a friend down in Georgia.. was that when the new admin folks bought White Wolf.. they didn't get ALL the material from the oWoD. Some writers kept terms, mechanics and such from the oWoD. So, you lost clans, terms, some mechanics. So part of the nWoD was to rebuild the system minus the stuff they didn't get sold in the buyout.


Offline Avis habilis

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2012, 02:17:37 PM »
That would explain a few things about V:tR. I never did get what the deal was with the 5 clans/bloodlines/whatever the hell they're called now, some of the V:tM ones preserved & some not.

Offline Silverfyre

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Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2012, 02:22:22 PM »
What I heard.. from a friend down in Georgia.. was that when the new admin folks bought White Wolf.. they didn't get ALL the material from the oWoD. Some writers kept terms, mechanics and such from the oWoD. So, you lost clans, terms, some mechanics. So part of the nWoD was to rebuild the system minus the stuff they didn't get sold in the buyout.

That is pretty much what happened when CCP took over White Wolf.  Now, those same ousted writers have formed Onyx Path and are putting out all the OWoD stuff via DriveThruRPG.com and are the ones working on getting out new NWoD supplements that are actually worth the money.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2012, 02:32:13 PM »
That would explain a few things about V:tR. I never did get what the deal was with the 5 clans/bloodlines/whatever the hell they're called now, some of the V:tM ones preserved & some not.

See, I grokked the 5x5 structure of Requiem immediately when I started playing it. The 13 clans were each rooted into Masquerade's gigantic backstory and metaplot, with lineages and NPCs and events...they were part of the story. But Requiem had no such metaplot for a long time, and still really doesn't, so the only thing they kept was the names of some of the clans for nostalgia value. Instead, they boiled down Clan and made it 'which archetype of the Vampire legend do you embody'?
-Ventrue are the Vampire as Aristocrat, the lord of the night
-Nosferatu are the Vampire as Monster, the terrifying boogeyman
-Gangrel are the Vampire as Predator, the hunter of humans
-Daeva are the Vampire as Seducer, the overextended rape metaphor
-Mekhet are the Vampire as Mystery, the unidentifiable shadowy stalker

aka the Five S'es: Snooty, Scary, Savage, Sexy, Sneaky.

Offline Geeklet

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2012, 02:52:55 PM »
How are people hating on nWoD werewolf so much? I think it is far and away better than oWoD werewolf. and I say this as someone who loved the hell out of WtA. Based solely on the mechanics, nWoD is better. Much more streamlined, things actually make some sense, and you dont need to spend an hour rolling 12 different dice pools for one action. As far as the settings go? Eh, depends on the game. VtM is better than VtR, WtF is better than WtA, though both really do rock. old Mage is better than new Mage, though new has some quirks I love. Changeling? the two are so different you can't really compare the two. although CtL does bring a sense of darkness and horror that CtD really lacked.

And Moraline? VtM Bloodlines is an awesome game. *sage nod*

Offline Silverfyre

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Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2012, 03:03:56 PM »
I don't know about Changeling the Dreaming lacking darkness and horror.  Your character was desperately trying to keep their faerie soul from dying and forgetting an entire facet of their lives.  Pretty horrifying and dark if you ask me.

Offline LunarSage

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2012, 03:04:49 PM »
I don't know about Changeling the Dreaming lacking darkness and horror.  Your character was desperately trying to keep their faerie soul from dying and forgetting an entire facet of their lives.  Pretty horrifying and dark if you ask me.

Then you had Pooka.

Certain players made me hate that Kith.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2012, 03:05:45 PM »
Then you had Pooka.

Certain players made me hate that Kith.

The Fishmalks of Changeling?

Offline LunarSage

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2012, 03:06:10 PM »
The Fishmalks of Changeling?

In many ways, worse.

Offline Silverfyre

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Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2012, 03:07:55 PM »
Oh agreed.  I did know one amazing Pooka player but the rest... Fishmalk-lings.

Offline Star Safyre

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Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2012, 03:33:55 PM »
Changling is the only game I think they did a good job in both new and old.  nWoD Changling is the only new one that I think looks and feels like a completely new setting and lies in the happy medium between "too similar" and "the same stuff".  For all the changes to all the games, it's the only one that made enough changes to be new but didn't change the spirit of the game.

Offline Braioch

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Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2012, 10:08:09 PM »
New Werewolf is bland and lame, but I'm not a fan of Old Werewolf either. It has a lot of direhard adherents, but I just can't find the joy they do in a game where your primary enemies are either werewolves (but EEEEVIL) or else almost literally ripped from a Captain Planet cartoon. Maybe it's just that Werewolf was the game that most blatantly stated 'the world is going to end, you suck and cannot change this, all you can do is die horribly and hopefully gloriously so that everyone remembers you until they also die horribly'.

Changeling is the only game that seems to be almost universally approved of as equal or better than its Old version.

Old Werewolf's main enemy was more like an elder god than anything

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2012, 10:17:46 PM »
Old Werewolf's main enemy was more like an elder god than anything

I don't really count the Wyrm as an actual enemy, more like a setting element. Sure, it's ultimately 'responsible' for the end of the world, but it's impossible for even the strongest werewolf to interact face-to-face with the Wyrm. Even the Antidiluvians in Vampire could at least be engaged in combat (briefly). That's particularly important for Apocalypse, where the solution to pretty much every problem ended in some variation of punching it in the face.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 10:18:47 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline Braioch

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Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2012, 10:45:46 PM »
Well I don't believe in the Cthulu games you would actually fight the Elder God, just the minions and pieces of itself, same with Werewolf

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2012, 10:58:08 PM »
Well I don't believe in the Cthulu games you would actually fight the Elder God, just the minions and pieces of itself, same with Werewolf

well you don't LAST long.. we had a fight with Dagon once.. 3 insane revelations and one really nasty crit with a modern machine gun. Dagon dead.. and most of the others insane or running from DOZENS of very very pissed off deep ones.

Offline Braioch

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Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2012, 01:24:01 AM »
well you don't LAST long.. we had a fight with Dagon once.. 3 insane revelations and one really nasty crit with a modern machine gun. Dagon dead.. and most of the others insane or running from DOZENS of very very pissed off deep ones.

Well the more of the Wyrm's minions you fight, the worse off your characters get, especially the more insidious ones

Offline Geeklet

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2012, 08:03:12 AM »
And that is one of the few things I disliked about WtA. "Good" and "Evil" were very clear cut. Almost every game I was involved in devolved into something akin to "Rawr, you evil wyrm thing, me kill you!"

That is what I love about the new Werewolf. The new wolves aren't inherently the 'good guys' (since they are the ones who got things to this fucked up situation), and they aren't on any mission to save the world, cuz that is impossible. They are just trying to protect their small piece of land from any and everything trying to harm it, being good/evil/whatever. A lot more grey area, a lot more room for intrigue and more interesting conflict and moral choices.

Offline Braioch

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Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2012, 08:05:33 AM »
And that is one of the few things I disliked about WtA. "Good" and "Evil" were very clear cut. Almost every game I was involved in devolved into something akin to "Rawr, you evil wyrm thing, me kill you!"

That is what I love about the new Werewolf. The new wolves aren't inherently the 'good guys' (since they are the ones who got things to this fucked up situation), and they aren't on any mission to save the world, cuz that is impossible. They are just trying to protect their small piece of land from any and everything trying to harm it, being good/evil/whatever. A lot more grey area, a lot more room for intrigue and more interesting conflict and moral choices.

I never got that, hell the biggest threat to the Garou was not necessarily the Wyrm or it's minions, but the fact that the Garou through intertribal fighting and the Impergium had royally fucked themselves over and were paying for it. I never got the feel of a black and white moral ground since so much of what they were was honor and loyalty based, which does not always necessitate morality in the sense that we understand it.

Offline Beorning

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2012, 03:31:52 PM »
Hmmm... So, I was thinking...

Anyone up for running a WoD game? I'd love to play C:tL again... and I'd like to try out V:tR in action...

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2012, 03:56:17 PM »
I'd be up to play for either, though preferentially Lost...I get my Requiem fix through ST-ing it in LARP form.

Offline LunarSage

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2012, 04:48:16 PM »
Josi and I have an active (freeform) big Werewolf the Apocalypse game called Sept of the Emerald Glade if anyone was interested.

Online HairyHeretic

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Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2012, 06:57:05 PM »
CtL always seemed a VERY different beast to me that CtD. Can someone who has played them both give a comparison?

Offline Chris Brady

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2012, 07:00:59 PM »
How are people hating on nWoD werewolf so much? I think it is far and away better than oWoD werewolf. and I say this as someone who loved the hell out of WtA. Based solely on the mechanics, nWoD is better. Much more streamlined, things actually make some sense, and you dont need to spend an hour rolling 12 different dice pools for one action. As far as the settings go? Eh, depends on the game. VtM is better than VtR, WtF is better than WtA, though both really do rock. old Mage is better than new Mage, though new has some quirks I love. Changeling? the two are so different you can't really compare the two. although CtL does bring a sense of darkness and horror that CtD really lacked.

And Moraline? VtM Bloodlines is an awesome game. *sage nod*

I like the background in nWoD Werewolf, except maybe the Pure and their idiotic mentality, or that the Spirits hate YOU.  But the more personal focus, the almost gang mentality is really compelling.

The issue with nWoD Werewolves is mechanical.

The Core Book Cop will WASTE, as in COMPLETELY butcher an entire group of basic Werewolves.  The basic NPC cop template is so badass that you're baby Werewolf is nothing to him/her/it.

Then again, White Wolf has ALWAYS forced it's players to fill in the holes when it comes to their system, fooling a lot of players into thinking that 'less' is better.  Nor do they really bother with balance between their archetypes, again, dropping it all on the GM's lap.

White Wolf has a reputation among the local gamer crews (who still play both versions, as well as several LARP groups) as great fluff, bad mechanics.  And I'll agree with that.

I was enraptured by the old Apocalypse game, even collecting the adventures, before realizing that running those meant sidelining my PCs.  I hate Vampires, always have, I've never found the appeal of human shaped mosquito parasites interesting, but the ladies love them, for whatever odd reason.

More rules, FYI, are NOT explicitly better, but 'better' rules help manage the POTENTIAL stress running the system CAN cause.  Not everyone can think up of a ruling, or ignore it on the spot like I can, after all.  (As a GM, I specialize in on-the-fly improvisation.  It's worked for a good part of 26 years as a system gamer, so I hope I got some of it right.  Namely cuz of the six regular groups I've had, not ONE of them have not figured out a way to destroy and plans I might have.  Lot's of fun, keeps me on my toes.)