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Author Topic: The World of Darkness Thread  (Read 11121 times)

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Offline Silverfyre

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Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #125 on: December 13, 2012, 09:43:15 AM »
You could just mail yourself.  We'd love to have you.

Offline Braioch

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Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #126 on: December 13, 2012, 09:43:57 AM »
I don't think they make a box that's able to contain my sheer sexiness to be fair ::)

Offline LunarSage

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #127 on: December 13, 2012, 09:45:57 AM »
Josi has been running a TT VtM Camarilla game for me since 2002.  We keep cutting the characters back to avoid power creep, which is cool with me.  I play about 12 characters in that game, ranging from neonates to elders.  Sometimes we even have rl friends join us in that setting.  It's all kinds of awesome and Josi is a phenomenal storyteller.

Offline LunarSage

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #128 on: December 13, 2012, 09:46:42 AM »
I don't think they make a box that's able to contain my sheer sexiness to be fair ::)

Just have them stamp "SEXY: HANDLE WITH CARE" on it and you'll be golden.   ;D

Offline Braioch

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Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #129 on: December 13, 2012, 09:50:26 AM »
Just have them stamp "SEXY: HANDLE WITH CARE" on it and you'll be golden.   ;D

This may work, I just fear they may instead take me elsewhere for...pleasures

o.O

Offline Beorning

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #130 on: December 13, 2012, 10:26:14 AM »
This topic really makes me want to play an oWoD V:tM game. My neck veins are pulsing and aching to get bitten so I can be turned.

Well, I keep trying to find someone to run V:tR for me and introduce me to the wonders of NWoD vampirism. No luck, though  :-(

Offline Braioch

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Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #131 on: December 13, 2012, 10:37:53 AM »
I've been trying to get involved in an actual system oWoD forever, we can make a club on that.

Offline Moraline

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #132 on: December 13, 2012, 12:21:39 PM »
You could just mail yourself.  We'd love to have you. *for dinner*

Fixed that for you.


If anyone starts up an oWoD V:tM game then just let me know. I'm looking more for freeform though or really light system.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #133 on: December 13, 2012, 12:29:57 PM »
Personally, I'd find a Vampire game to be one of the few things that'd be really hard to work into a freeform, because the out-of-game need for negotiation and cooperation for mutual enjoyment clashes so heavily with the nature of Vampire as an inherently PvP game, and one that rarely lets both sides walk away alive. Not to say it's undoable, but I think the game atmosphere would suffer.

Offline Moraline

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #134 on: December 13, 2012, 12:49:24 PM »
I think whether it's pvp or not is up to the players and the GM. It's up to the story that you create. I can think of probably dozens of stories off the top of my head that don't involve any PvP. All the players have to do, is choose to work together against NPC's and it's no longer a PvP game. It doesn't take a lot of imagination to figure that out.

Essentially it's a game that combines any combination of politics, drama and horror. You can do any of those things without the need for PvP.  The need for PvP is something that I'm assuming you just prefer. It's a choice, it's not a necessity.

If anything when I think about it, this game probably has less need for direct confrontational PvP then any other. The WoD books are books about story telling. PvP or combat of any kind has always been less of a focus in their system.

Of course if your thinking that it's PvP for politics in the form of system rolls to determine things like charm/intimidation/influence/mind control/magic/bloodlust etc... Then I suppose I can see your point. However, that's really only if you like rolling dice for those things and you want to compete against other players.

I guess in the end, my opinion is that any setting is just a setting. What you choose to do with it and how you intend on approaching it is up to you. It's all just personal choice.

It helps that I'm naturally a bit submissive so I'm good with being part of the team instead of being against it. I don't feel the need to be confrontational and fight against other players during a game, it's just my personal play style choice.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #135 on: December 13, 2012, 01:07:01 PM »
It's not so much punching in the face or discipline use sort of PvP - political maneuvering and influence manipulation is also PvP - but if vampires aren't constantly scheming to one-up or gain power over their rivals, which often includes arranging the deaths of people in their way, it doesn't feel like Vampire to me. You can work together for mutual survival/benefit against NPCs, but 'me, me, me' should still be foremost in a vampire's mind...if they survive the NPCs, good; if they come out of the situation better than they were, better, if they come out better and one or more of their rivals is dead (with someone else taking the blame), best. It's just something I find inherent to the specific game and setting - a Vampire chronicle suffers thematically if the characters aren't metaphorically or literally at each other's throats even when they're cooperating to take down a bigger threat.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 01:10:41 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline LunarSage

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #136 on: December 13, 2012, 01:27:51 PM »
Though Neonates may not have yet learned to be that self serving. 

Offline Lilias

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #137 on: December 13, 2012, 01:34:27 PM »
This may work, I just fear they may instead take me elsewhere for...pleasures

o.O

If they fail to deliver you, we can claim a refund. Works either way. :P

Re: Mage and evil influences - I loved the way each Tradition viewed most of the others as misguided at best and sold off to the Dark Side at worst. ;D

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #138 on: December 13, 2012, 01:38:52 PM »
Though Neonates may not have yet learned to be that self serving. 

Quite possibly. Though that'd require all the players to be neonates (which is a very valid game concept in itself), and they'd have to be really, really fresh neonates. Like I said, it's not impossible to be cooperative and friendly vampires who look out for each other, but barring the very specific example of a freshly embraced neonate coterie, it'd be out-of-setting and I personally would think it's losing out on a big part of the setting's charm.

Offline Geeklet

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #139 on: December 13, 2012, 01:40:44 PM »
Personally, I'd find a Vampire game to be one of the few things that'd be really hard to work into a freeform, because the out-of-game need for negotiation and cooperation for mutual enjoyment clashes so heavily with the nature of Vampire as an inherently PvP game, and one that rarely lets both sides walk away alive. Not to say it's undoable, but I think the game atmosphere would suffer.

As long as the players are mature enough OOCly to know that their character won't get their way all the time, there should not be a problem with this.

Offline LunarSage

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #140 on: December 13, 2012, 01:41:21 PM »
A gang of Neonate Brujah would do nicely I think.  :-)

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #141 on: December 13, 2012, 02:02:46 PM »
More the need for the players to be okay with re-rolling on a semi-regular basis. Particularly as a bunch of Brujah - two Brujah get into a fight and frenzy, one of them's probably going to be ashed by the end. Being mature enough to accept you won't always win is a baseline anyone should hold to, but it takes on a new meaning when 'not winning' translates to 'Generate New Character'. Two vampires going at it, whether it's a pair of Brujah in anger frenzy or a couple of Elders running a mortal shadow war, are/should be playing for keeps (if they can get away with it), because leaving your enemy alive if you could kill him without suffering consequences (a typical out-of-character concession) leaves a dangerous foe primed to backstab you later.

Offline Geeklet

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #142 on: December 13, 2012, 02:06:51 PM »
And honestly, killing someone without getting any blame to come your way is easier said than done. I really dont think the whole 'Generate New Character' thing would happen as often as you might think.

Offline LunarSage

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #143 on: December 13, 2012, 02:11:19 PM »
Eh, Brujah Raves are prime examples of why two Brujah fighting doesn't have to end up with one of them suffering final death.  Younger Brujah look out for one another.  There's solidarity in the clan that you don't see outside of clans like the Tremere, the Giovanni and the Assamites.  The thing with the Tremere is they only watch out for you as a clanmate as much as they have to. 

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #144 on: December 13, 2012, 02:17:27 PM »
It'd happen often enough unless the respective players are actively taking precautions to prevent it (or cause it), which perpetuates the PvP mindset and reduces the cooperative atmosphere that's crucial to any successful freeform game.

Note that adding a system doesn't actually solve many of these problems, only the one that results when two characters have to thrown down. But taking away the means of neutrally resolving a conflict that should end in death for one of the involved parties (say, a Gangrel who frenzies on a Tremere, possibly in the middle of Court) does hurt verisimilitude.

Offline Moraline

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #145 on: December 13, 2012, 02:55:10 PM »
I simply don't like games where the object is to kill your fellow players. In my experience any aspect of a game that has that component always has an aspect to counter that. There's always a reason to NOT fight as often as a reason to fight. The player just needs to think about it first and stop assuming that they have a need to engage in conflict all the time. PvP only exists because the players want it to exist. A group of players working together can come up with plenty of reasons to stay united.

Besides, I've always found that occasional tension was way more fun then actual fighting.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #146 on: December 13, 2012, 03:11:11 PM »
You might be better suited to a non-Vampire genre, then, because PvP - even nonlethal PvP - is so thoroughly integrated into the vampiric culture and setting that to do away with it entirely is a disservice to the venue. And even nonlethal PvP is hard to pull off, since the Beast can take it out of your hands entirely. It's like making lemonade and leaving the sweetener/sugar out...you can do it, but you've deliberately removed one of its key ingredients and ending up with something lesser than it was meant to be.

-Werewolf can be an odd taste to swallow, but it's very much the polar opposite of Vampire - you might squabble and fight for dominance within your pack, but when it's crunch time, you're a unified team who would all die before they let a packmate down. Just try not to take the Captain Planet villains seriously.
-Mages spend a lot of time arguing with each other over who is more right and whose paradigm is clearly superior, but when the Technocracy comes knocking, everyone's on the same side against the real enemy.
-I know nothing about Old Changeling, Wraith, Demon, or Mummy.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 03:12:48 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline Geeklet

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #147 on: December 13, 2012, 03:31:32 PM »
You might be better suited to a non-Vampire genre, then, because PvP - even nonlethal PvP - is so thoroughly integrated into the vampiric culture and setting that to do away with it entirely is a disservice to the venue. And even nonlethal PvP is hard to pull off, since the Beast can take it out of your hands entirely. It's like making lemonade and leaving the sweetener/sugar out...you can do it, but you've deliberately removed one of its key ingredients and ending up with something lesser than it was meant to be.

-Werewolf can be an odd taste to swallow, but it's very much the polar opposite of Vampire - you might squabble and fight for dominance within your pack, but when it's crunch time, you're a unified team who would all die before they let a packmate down. Just try not to take the Captain Planet villains seriously.
-Mages spend a lot of time arguing with each other over who is more right and whose paradigm is clearly superior, but when the Technocracy comes knocking, everyone's on the same side against the real enemy.
-I know nothing about Old Changeling, Wraith, Demon, or Mummy.

I've experienced more PVP in werewolf than I ever did in Vampire. I really think you are painting VtM out to be harsher than it actually is.

Offline Moraline

Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #148 on: December 13, 2012, 03:39:09 PM »
You might be better suited to a non-Vampire genre, then, because PvP - even nonlethal PvP - is so thoroughly integrated into the vampiric culture and setting that to do away with it entirely is a disservice to the venue. And even nonlethal PvP is hard to pull off, since the Beast can take it out of your hands entirely. It's like making lemonade and leaving the sweetener/sugar out...you can do it, but you've deliberately removed one of its key ingredients and ending up with something lesser than it was meant to be.

I've been playing Vampire games since almost 15 years ago. I played tabletop RPG Vampire games for years in many settings including V:tM. I'm very well suited to playing Vampire games, thank you very much. I never had any complaints from all the people I used to RP with that begged me to play with them weekend after weekend. Nor, did I ever have any complaints from the people that used to play on MY oWoD RP forum site.

I'm pretty sure if we poke around here you'll find more then a few people who agree with my playstyle as much as yours.

I don't think it's really necessary to say that I'm not suited.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 03:40:20 PM by Moraline »

Offline Silverfyre

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Re: The World of Darkness Thread
« Reply #149 on: December 13, 2012, 03:54:04 PM »
I really don't see where the idea that PvP is so ingrained into V:tM is coming from.  Sure, vampires are predators and they are always battling for political clout or status but they are also highly social creatures.  The Sabbat has the pack dynamic and the clergy, the Camarilla has its courts and the coteries and even the Anarchs run around in gangs.  I have been playing for just as long as Moraline in V:tM games and I have maybe run into a PvP "player kill all other players" type of game once.  It really is not as you describe it in my experience.