You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 07, 2016, 08:03:58 PM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard  (Read 16134 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Kunoichi

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #75 on: December 03, 2012, 11:01:53 PM »
That was basically the method I used (am using) She may actually be interested in succubus racial abilities (she only needs 6 levels to start with max FoP). If she wants many other class levels though that method is the way to go.

This is pretty much it, yes.  Two levels in the Succubus monster class gets me two outsider HD and 100 ft. Telepathy, the latter of which would be quite useful to have.  Then I could add in one level of Marshal so that I could combine my naturally-large Charisma score with Motivate Dexterity, take all six FoP levels, and still have three levels leftover for working in other ways to put my Charisma to good use.

Also, not having 57,000 gp out of my starting gold on a ritual would allow me to put that money to use on other, more important things. ^^;

Hmm.  That said, depending on what sort of Level Adjustment I'd get for it, I could be a full Succubus and take a different route, instead.  Multiclass a lot, focus strongly on getting every use I can out of my huge Charisma score, use my innate spell-like and supernatural abilities to as great an effect as I can...  Maybe see if I can qualify for Thrallherd, get one level for the improved version of Leadership?

Offline PaleEnchantress

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #76 on: December 03, 2012, 11:20:19 PM »
Oh, and speaking of Leadership, we'll need someone to 'take one for the team' as mentioned by having a dedicated Artificer crafter as their cohort, tricked out for maximally cheap item creation so that we can outfit ourselves while still having plenty of funds to spend on our Evil Plans. If no one else really needs said cohort, I'd be willing to do it, especially since I will eventually get 2 cohorts via Thrallherd.

My cohort is going for some artificier levels, DO we know what level we are starting with?


I might actually feel so inclined to grab a second cohort. Make my FoP a warlock or wilder (class abilities can be used while posessing) and the 2nd cohort a pure artificier. I love the artificier class anyway.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 11:23:57 PM by PaleEnchantress »

Offline Kunoichi

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #77 on: December 03, 2012, 11:23:02 PM »
The OOC part of the opening description in the thread says ECL 12 for the PCs.

Offline PaleEnchantress

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #78 on: December 03, 2012, 11:24:32 PM »
The OOC part of the opening description in the thread says ECL 12 for the PCs.

AH okay so my FOB cohort wont have a lot of artifice power. I better just get a second full artificer one.

Offline Zaer Darkwail

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #79 on: December 03, 2012, 11:33:50 PM »
In first post it says we start as 12th level, ignoring the LA.

Anyways I could take landlord and leadership feat. If PaleEnchantress has the artificer....then what I should get? As we got Thrallherd who can likely have 'monstrous followers' to make up hordes of monsters what our hero will be facing in career (fun fact; sacrificing followers as Thrallherd gives no penalty and you find replacement smoothly).

Our succubi is going to be possessing a holy avenger as 'destined artifact' for our hero to kick ass (and also act as somekind voice from sword to guide/advice him by giving ideas which are shifty grey ground in paladin code).

Anyways as changeling rogue 5/chameleon 7 I have ability have 2 class foci, have +4 to single stat and change daily, 1 bonus feat which I can change per day and able cast 5th level cleric/wizard spells and have CL 14. Also mimic class features 2/day (rage, smite, sneak attack)

Then with Vampire Lord template I get lots cookies as vampire. Including the fact that if I am struck down during broad daylight I may act as 'dead' until sun sets. More than reasonable to act as villain. Also I guess I could suppress the urge to go gaseous form to keep deception up until I am burned, buried or otherwise treated by the hero and then rise. As I need very specifically killed off before I die off permamently (so it allows act as dead person). Just use misdirect so I can act as living being and not detect undead for divinations.

Offline PaleEnchantress

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #80 on: December 03, 2012, 11:38:06 PM »
In first post it says we start as 12th level, ignoring the LA.

Anyways I could take landlord and leadership feat. If PaleEnchantress has the artificer....then what I should get? As we got Thrallherd who can likely have 'monstrous followers' to make up hordes of monsters what our hero will be facing in career (fun fact; sacrificing followers as Thrallherd gives no penalty and you find replacement smoothly).

Our succubi is going to be possessing a holy avenger as 'destined artifact' for our hero to kick ass (and also act as somekind voice from sword to guide/advice him by giving ideas which are shifty grey ground in paladin code).

Anyways as changeling rogue 5/chameleon 7 I have ability have 2 class foci, have +4 to single stat and change daily, 1 bonus feat which I can change per day and able cast 5th level cleric/wizard spells and have CL 14. Also mimic class features 2/day (rage, smite, sneak attack)

Then with Vampire Lord template I get lots cookies as vampire. Including the fact that if I am struck down during broad daylight I may act as 'dead' until sun sets. More than reasonable to act as villain. Also I guess I could suppress the urge to go gaseous form to keep deception up until I am burned, buried or otherwise treated by the hero and then rise. As I need very specifically killed off before I die off permamently (so it allows act as dead person). Just use misdirect so I can act as living being and not detect undead for divinations.


I wouldn't go assuming massive LA's are just being completely ignored or that templates that are so strong they don't even have an LA listed will just be free. If they are though ill be a vampire lord rather than a Widow Queen. The draw of Widow Queen is vampire like abilities.  If i can get vampire free then I can be a different PRC


Edit: We definably agreed LA's will be reduced though so the normally +8 LA vampire template might go down to +4 or even less
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 11:39:17 PM by PaleEnchantress »

Offline Kunoichi

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #81 on: December 04, 2012, 12:02:51 AM »
Yeah, the only reason the Vampire template was +8 LA in the first place was because they didn't want you to get the ability to make a small army of completely-loyal spawn before you hit ECL 13.  Toss that conceit out the window, and the vampire template winds up being worth considerably less, especially considering all the weaknesses you get saddled with for taking it on.

Offline PaleEnchantress

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #82 on: December 04, 2012, 12:16:08 AM »
Yeah, the only reason the Vampire template was +8 LA in the first place was because they didn't want you to get the ability to make a small army of completely-loyal spawn before you hit ECL 13.  Toss that conceit out the window, and the vampire template winds up being worth considerably less, especially considering all the weaknesses you get saddled with for taking it on.

Well create spawn is very powerful. There is no way we should let it be considered +8 though.

I think the best way to deal with reducing LA campaign wide would be give everyone a few free La. Then , very pragmatically, examine if something is horribly overcosted and try to bring it in line on a case by case basis.

IE: We all get 3 free LA. And lets say I want to be a regular elf with the phenric and half fey templates both templates are reasonable at their +2 la, so i end up with an LA +1. Zaer wants to be a vampire 8 is way to much so Zaer messages the GM who agrees it seems more like LA 5, his LA is +2. - These numbers are just an example the Dm could only give us +1 free La , maybe shed rather give us +4. Either way though the cost reduction on LA should be applied, but sparingly. I think a blanket free LA and then a small modification when needed will end up far more even and fair then trying to drastically reduce every LA race or template someone brings up.

It also lets people that don't want an LA at all still get something.

Offline AutocadTopic starter

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #83 on: December 04, 2012, 01:02:44 AM »
Before I make a decision about LA, I would like everyone still interested in playing an evil PC to post their desired race and it's corresponding LA.

Offline Kunoichi

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #84 on: December 04, 2012, 01:05:09 AM »
Succubus - +6 LA.

Offline ExisD

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #85 on: December 04, 2012, 01:09:45 AM »
Well my idea was succubus, going the full way with it rather than just a few levels. LA+6 with 6 racial hit dice so ECL 12. I don't think this would be very workable by itself because of how weak she'd be compared to other people even if outsider HD are one of the best types.

Though if we have so many succubi I'd try to find some other type of evil outsider that also works for variety of power's sake. Maybe just use fiend of corruption to always have some sort of female form. Actually I'll put in a sub idea of a dragon if we have too many succubi.

Offline Kunoichi

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #86 on: December 04, 2012, 01:27:34 AM »
Actually, it looks like you and I would be the only two succubi, ExisD. ^^; I'm also keeping my eyes open for other possible creatures to play as, so if you'd prefer to avoid redundancy in character choices, I certainly don't mind looking into other options for myself.

Offline ExisD

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #87 on: December 04, 2012, 01:50:12 AM »
What other class were you going for? Besides the FoP to sword thing.

I was thinking FoC and being the mysterious adviser who can grant some buffs, more if I can get caster levels though I'm doubting that that will happen. Without magic rouge like and do dungeon/quest set up.

Offline Kunoichi

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #88 on: December 04, 2012, 01:55:51 AM »
Well, if I go full Succubus, I'll probably be ditching the Fiend of Possession thing entirely in favor of class levels that help me leverage my naturally-high Charisma score to my advantage, like Marshal or something that lets me add Charisma to saves or AC.  It would depend on whether or not I'd even have any levels leftover after racial HD and LA, though.

Offline ExisD

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #89 on: December 04, 2012, 02:03:42 AM »
Gotcha, more or less the same here. I was trying to find reasonable classes that granted CHA to attack or AC, but didn't meet with much success. There was a nice item that added it to damage though.

Actually, if the LA and such would wind up being too much. My back up idea is currently a fallen Justice Archon, probably filling the same role as the succubus. Though she'd be more toward scaring the minions into service than persuading them.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 02:22:20 AM by ExisD »

Offline AutocadTopic starter

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #90 on: December 04, 2012, 02:58:59 AM »
How about this for succubi - they have 6 racial hit dice and 6 class hit dice for a total of 12 hit dice, and this will be considered ECL 12 for them. Other people are free to comment on this arrangement as well.

Offline Kunoichi

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #91 on: December 04, 2012, 03:31:21 AM »
So... Effectively zero LA?  Or do you mean that they just get the hit dice, but no class features?

Offline AutocadTopic starter

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #92 on: December 04, 2012, 03:47:07 AM »
Basically zero LA.

Trial rules:

For monsters, reduce LA by number of racial hit die (minimum zero)

For templates, LA can be swapped for racial hit die, giving you hp, bab, saves, etc.

I reserve the right to make exceptions.

Offline ExisD

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #93 on: December 04, 2012, 03:52:38 AM »
What should we use for attribute modifiers? Also on that matter how should we go about determining stats?

Offline Kunoichi

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #94 on: December 04, 2012, 03:58:50 AM »
Hmm, that opens up some interesting possibilities...

...Possibilities I will have to explore tomorrow, as I should have been asleep hours ago. ^^; Good night, everyone who's still awake.

Offline CarnivalOfTheGoat

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #95 on: December 04, 2012, 05:03:38 AM »
Basically zero LA.

Trial rules:

For monsters, reduce LA by number of racial hit die (minimum zero)

For templates, LA can be swapped for racial hit die, giving you hp, bab, saves, etc.

I reserve the right to make exceptions.

I've been pondering tossing in an application here but haven't been able to decide exactly what. So far there are plenty of corrupters, not so many puppetmaster/shenanigan types.

I might be unhelpfully confusing matters (though I hope not!) but in most cases, isn't a critter's LA equal to or significantly lower than their HD? I.E., most things out there will have an LA of zero by these rules...?

An Ak'chazar Rakshasa would be a significantly evil, undead-spawning opponent...But also far too high level. In contrast, a normal Rak (theoretically on its way to becoming an Ak'chazar) is a 7HD, LA+7 monster which casts spells as a 7th level Sorceror (and additional levels of Sorceror stack with this base ability)...Though I was considering a request to make that start as a 7th level Cleric (Death Domain) +5 levels rather than 7th level Sorceror (Ak'chazar Rakshasa are aaaaall about the necromancy). But anyway, it's still an example in re: LA vs. HD=0 under these rules (actually, as an additional example, the Ak'chazar is 17d8+68 and has an LA of...+5...Another 'zero').

This isn't a criticism of the rules idea, so much as a 'some monsters make this reeeeeally weird!' pointer.

Offline PaleEnchantress

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #96 on: December 04, 2012, 06:05:15 AM »
Basically zero LA.

Trial rules:

For monsters, reduce LA by number of racial hit die (minimum zero)

For templates, LA can be swapped for racial hit die, giving you hp, bab, saves, etc.

I reserve the right to make exceptions.

I don't think this is a particularly good system because it really only helps fighter types. For those based on class abilities or spells the problem had always been more about how limited their ability to get class levels is and not the missing hit dice.

I wasn't planning on touching LA on my main because I don't even want to lose a single caster level without a significant benefit. I don't mind not being able to use a LA adjusted race really (though one of my cohorts is la +2 and i was hoping to get it to just LA +1. If not though 2 racial HD isn't too bad) but lets examine other examples.

Kunoichi wants to be a fiend of possession. With a succubus she would have no class abilities when the game starts and she wouldn't be finished with her 6 level class until level 18. Meanwhile a fighter with 10 outsider hit dice is just missing some feats.

As I said losing spellcaster levels would be far to great a sacrifice for me so I don't plan on messing with LA much. If everyone else likes this idea I'm not against it.


Edit: You did ask what race everyone would like to play not counting LA.  In a perfect situation my race would be Nymph, exchanging the racial druid spellcasting for wizard.  It's pretty similar to Succubus in ECL and LA (I believe it's 7 HD and 6 LA putting it almost exactly at Succubus level). Even as nice as Nymph is losing caster levels is way to punishing for a pure caster that id only for sure jump on it if it was +0 or +1. +2 I would be a "maybe".
« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 06:13:55 AM by PaleEnchantress »

Offline Zaer Darkwail

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #97 on: December 04, 2012, 07:23:10 AM »
My prefered race/LA combo; Changeling (+0, base eberron race) Vampire (+8) and Vampire Lord (demands 10 class levels and is +3 more CR to normal vampire).

However I do not take vampire if I cannot take vampire lord though as I want vampire lord's ability to walk in broad daylight and have it's free feats and have none vampire weaknesses.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #98 on: December 04, 2012, 08:59:03 AM »
Before I make a decision about LA, I would like everyone still interested in playing an evil PC to post their desired race and it's corresponding LA.

Unbodied - +4 LA.

If the LA allowance becomes higher than 4, I could find a template to fill the gap, but that's the only thing I really want.

AH okay so my FOB cohort wont have a lot of artifice power. I better just get a second full artificer one.
How were you planning on getting multiple cohorts? Leadership only allows one, and while you could take Undead Leadership, they'd just give each other penalties and end up with two crappy cohorts. Plus, the artificer cohort, whoever's it is, will need to be full Artificer, a dip in the class doesn't do any good.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 09:27:18 AM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline PaleEnchantress

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #99 on: December 04, 2012, 10:35:37 AM »
How were you planning on getting multiple cohorts? Leadership only allows one, and while you could take Undead Leadership, they'd just give each other penalties and end up with two crappy cohorts. Plus, the artificer cohort, whoever's it is, will need to be full Artificer, a dip in the class doesn't do any good.

Yes it is undead leadership. The only real penalty they give each other is a small one for having an animal companion/familiar/other cohort.