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Author Topic: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard  (Read 16086 times)

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Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #175 on: December 05, 2012, 02:10:40 PM »
Only one feat, actually.  And I'm choosing Thrallherd over Leadership for a variety of reasons.  Minions attained via Thrallherd are inherently more expendable than those attained via Leadership, I like psionics a lot, I like the Thrallherd class in particular...  Actually, I think personal preference is really my main reason. ^^;
Two feats. Practiced Manifester to get your ML up to par, then Inquisitor to meet the prerequisites for the class. Besides, as Pale pointed out the penalty for dead followers isn't cumulative - you can butcher every minion you have in a giant blood orgy every month, and you'll never suffer more than a -3 total Leadership penalty - I think you'll be hitting the cap of the Followers chart even with that penalty, assuming you have a +6 Cha item.

I guess I'm just grumpy because I'm losing any uniqueness I had. Pale is planning to use a loophole to take Leadership and Undead Leadership for double-cohorts, getting the 10th-level capstone of Thrallherd effectively for free, and now someone else is just skipping the middleman and Thrallherding too. Changing my screenname to TheGrumpstone.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 02:15:01 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline Kunoichi

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #176 on: December 05, 2012, 02:14:20 PM »
Oh, right.  Forgot about the feat requirement. ><; And if it helps, you'll still be a disembodied psionic consciousness.  We won't be stepping on your toes on that one, at least.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #177 on: December 05, 2012, 02:16:34 PM »
All that does is make my gear requirements needlessly complicated.

Though see my note edited in above - your..."Charisma score" is so huge that you hit the Leadership 25 cap even with the -3 penalty for murdering your minions willy-nilly.

EDIT: Sorry, at CL12 you will be Leadership 22, or 24 if we have a Stronghold. Once we hit our first milestone you'll cap out.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 02:18:38 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline ExisD

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #178 on: December 05, 2012, 02:17:04 PM »
That is actually a really nice idea, though it would disqualify me for fiend or corruption since I wouldn't have a charm SLA. I'd also lose the greater teleport one that was wonderful, though it would be replaced with polymorph for moving around. I like the sound of this one much better, I'd never seen this outsider before but it fits much better with what I was envisioning for the character.

I'm assuming a rough translation of stats to 3.5, mainly spells which wouldn't change much and DR which would be 10/evil. Also the angle subtype, for Good creatures with no Law or chaos requirement instead of the celestial, from 3.0, subtype. Though there is also the question of how detect evil/good would function on someone with the Good subtype and an evil alignment.

Would that one work Auto?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 02:22:00 PM by ExisD »

Offline Kunoichi

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #179 on: December 05, 2012, 02:26:16 PM »
All that does is make my gear requirements needlessly complicated.

Though see my note edited in above - your..."Charisma score" is so huge that you hit the Leadership 25 cap even with the -3 penalty for murdering your minions willy-nilly.

EDIT: Sorry, at CL12 you will be Leadership 22, or 24 if we have a Stronghold. Once we hit our first milestone you'll cap out.

Hmm.  I suppose that that actually does make a stronger case for Leadership, then.  Still a bit loath to give up Thrallherd, because, again, personal preference, but I could certainly put those two extra levels to good use...

Alright, so I've got 4 levels open for various possible feats of creative multiclassing.  Anyone got any good suggestions? ^^;

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #180 on: December 05, 2012, 02:36:26 PM »
I'd advocate it from both a mechanical and personal perspective...Class Levels are the single most precious resource you have, followed by Feats and then Gold. Never get something with a higher-value resource (Level > Feat > Money > Magic) that you can get with a lower-value one.

If you want ideas, check out the X Stat To Y Bonus grand list:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732

The Charisma category lists everything that lets you add Charisma to one thing or another, see if you want anything off that list and can get it.

For instance, Paladin of Tyranny or Slaughter 2/Blackguard 2 would add double your Charisma to all saving throws, and give you a bit of melee punch to defend yourself if you get caught in a sticky situation.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 02:40:13 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline Kunoichi

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #181 on: December 05, 2012, 03:55:17 PM »
Unfortunately, Paladin of Slaughter has a completely ridiculous Code of Conduct that will make roleplaying with any sort of subtlety completely impossible, and Blackguard will require me to spend several feat slots just to enter it.  I could maybe take a level in Battledancer, and it would even fit in with the character concept I've got now of a succubus who likes to dabble in various different hobbies, since dancing could easily be one of those, but after that...

A little spellcasting or psionics, to pick up first-level utility spells and/or powers?  Dragonfire Adept for the free magic item identifying invocation?  Get those two levels of Fiend of Corruption I was already considering getting?  I can't really decide. ><;

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #182 on: December 05, 2012, 05:06:01 PM »
What levels do you already have?


It also just occurred to me that taking Undead Leadership+Leadership for 2x cohort isn't really a problem for me, because I can do it do. Thrallherd only excludes Leadership-based followers, so if we're assuming UL to be an independent feat from Leadership, I'm in the clear. It'll be a rather paltry band of followers, but the cohort's the important bit, and since I'm donating one of my cohorts to the cause of dirt-cheap item crafting (which we are seriously going to need considering the size of our band at this point, I think we're practically a small army), I deserve it. :D

Table of Organization:
-ExisD, Succubus/Movanic Daeva Warblade
--??? Cohort
-PaleEnchantress, Nymph Widow Queen
--Fiend of Possession Cohort
--Artificer Undead Cohort
-Kunoichi, Succubus ???
--??? Cohort
Zaer Darkwail, Vampire Changeling ???
-??? Cohort
Glyphstone, Unbodied Thrallherd
-??? Thrall
--??? Undead Cohort

We can staff two entire adventuring parties to play off each other, if need be.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 05:11:33 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline PaleEnchantress

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #183 on: December 05, 2012, 05:10:09 PM »
What levels do you already have?


It also just occurred to me that taking Undead Leadership+Leadership for 2x cohort isn't really a problem for me, because I can do it do. Thrallherd only excludes Leadership-based followers, so if we're assuming UL to be an independent feat from Leadership, I'm in the clear. It'll be a rather paltry band of followers, but the cohort's the important bit, and since I'm donating one of my cohorts to the cause of dirt-cheap item crafting (which we are seriously going to need considering the size of our band at this point, I think we're practically a small army), I deserve it. :D

Table of Organization:
-ExisD, Succubus/Movanic Daeva Warblade
--??? Cohort
-PaleEnchantress, Nymph Widow Queen
--Fiend of Possession Cohort
--??? Undead Cohort
-Kunoichi, Succubus ???
--??? Cohort
Zaer Darkwail, Vampire Changeling ???
-??? Cohort
Glyphstone, Unbodied Thrallherd
-??? Thrall
--??? Undead Cohort

We can staff two entire adventuring parties to play off each other, if need be.

My other Cohort is an artificier.

Offline ExisD

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #184 on: December 05, 2012, 05:14:51 PM »
I'm not sure on cohort yet, might be a caster focused on crafting/transmutation. Mundane stuff that can easily set up a dungeon and traps without needing a ton of extra support.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #185 on: December 05, 2012, 05:18:05 PM »
My other Cohort is an artificier.

Fixed and updated.

Let's see...
A 10th level Artificer will get Craft Wondrous, Craft Magic Arms+Armor, Craft Wand, and Craft Rod for free. The only thing he's missing is Forge Ring, but he can't get it yet..gets it for free at level 14 anyways. So we can't get dirt-cheap rings. He does get 2 bonus feats, probably Exceptional Artisan and Legendary Artisan for XP/GP reduction. If he's not Human, that still leaves 4 feat slots...Bind Elemental, Magical Artisan (Bind Elemental), Apprentice (Craftsman), Exceptional Artisan.
Total discount:100*.75*.85*.75*.90 = 43% normal GP and XP costs, and 75% normal crafting time. That's the maximum discount we can get without campaign-specific elements we cannot count on, like membership or affiliation in certain crafting guilds. Still a big bonus to get all our stuff at a net of 21.5% market price.

Addendum: I forgot about personalized items. We can add another 30% discount if our poor crafting slave also makes each item so that it'll only function for our specific respective class (making them only work for Evil people would be too much of a tipoff). That makes the final discount 30.1% of regular cost, or 15% Market price.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 06:29:57 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline AutocadTopic starter

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #186 on: December 05, 2012, 05:37:38 PM »
The two +2 bonuses are in addition to my Elite array modifications and the 'base stats' of the Unbodied?

Yes.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #187 on: December 05, 2012, 05:51:03 PM »
Since you're here, Autocad, a ruling to be clear before we get too involved in planning - are Leadership and Undead Leadership mutually exclusive, or can Undead Leadership be taken parallel to Leadership/Thrallherd for double the cohorts, double the fun? I think it's kind of stinky cheese, but if you're fine with it, we can all certainly use the extra hands around the evil fortress.


With regards to the crafting min-maxing, the only reason I'm doing this is because we're the 'DMs' of this game/setting without an actual DM's ability to create limitless magic items, and because we each have a small army to outfit in addition to ourselves and our cohorts.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 06:31:15 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline Zaer Darkwail

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #188 on: December 05, 2012, 07:47:42 PM »
I think this point my char is going to be dark sheep of the group and not start with leadership (as vampire lord gives it for free). But I plan take Landlord feat.

Now question is; do we form single huge power base of operations (and stack resources on it) or will we all build our own fortress what we use as stage for our hero to do one his more epic adventures in? Like succubi build dark castle with dungeon and everything.

Offline Kunoichi

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #189 on: December 05, 2012, 07:54:58 PM »
What levels do you already have?

Marshal 1/Cloistered Cleric 1.  I don't plan on taking the Magic domain with the Cleric dip, so taking a level in Sorcerer could be useful for using wands and so on...

Offline PaleEnchantress

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #190 on: December 05, 2012, 08:39:30 PM »
Since you're here, Autocad, a ruling to be clear before we get too involved in planning - are Leadership and Undead Leadership mutually exclusive, or can Undead Leadership be taken parallel to Leadership/Thrallherd for double the cohorts, double the fun? I think it's kind of stinky cheese, but if you're fine with it, we can all certainly use the extra hands around the evil fortress.

If it doesn't stack I guess I have to go Thrallherd.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #191 on: December 05, 2012, 09:10:52 PM »
I think this point my char is going to be dark sheep of the group and not start with leadership (as vampire lord gives it for free). But I plan take Landlord feat.

Now question is; do we form single huge power base of operations (and stack resources on it) or will we all build our own fortress what we use as stage for our hero to do one his more epic adventures in? Like succubi build dark castle with dungeon and everything.

Stacking is probably better. Five of us means we'll have 500,000 to build a nice evil lair to start off with. Once we get our first milestone, we'll have another 500,000, another 500,000 at the second, another 1,000,000 at the third, and a final 1,000,000 bonus at the fourth. If we build economical (500K can go by fast if you load up on extras), we'll build up a hefty surplus and have a huge awesome volcano lair or something for the 'final showdown'.

Offline Kunoichi

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #192 on: December 06, 2012, 11:02:38 AM »
Hmm.  Leadership feat at level 6, plus that one feat at level 9 that increases the level my cohort can be to one below my level.  Take a Beguiler (Shining South) Psion for a cohort, and pick the right powers.

Name him 'Pikablu', and pretend he is my familiar. :P The only question is which discipline I want him to specialize in.  Seer, Shaper, Nomad?  I'm tempted to go Egoist, but I've never been that good at (ab)using Polymorph, and I wouldn't want to step on Glyph's toes with another Telepath, either.  Decisions, decisions...

Online Kimera

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #193 on: December 06, 2012, 11:07:52 AM »
This game looks very interesting, Still looking for more?

Offline Kunoichi

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #194 on: December 06, 2012, 11:43:52 AM »
I don't think sign-ups have been closed yet, at the very least.  What sort of character concept have you got?

Online Kimera

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #195 on: December 06, 2012, 12:21:30 PM »
I was thinking either a type of demon or aberration. Still figuring out the rules you are using in this game for the monsters

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #196 on: December 06, 2012, 12:31:18 PM »
It's looking like the general accepted rule is you can 'bake' 1 point of LA into each Racial HD you have - if you're playing something without racial HD, I don't know how it's handled.

It should be something that can easily pass for human or otherwise effectively disguise itself, though, since this will be a high intrigue+sneaky and likely low-combat game for a good portion of its run...any situation where we have to directly intervene and punch things in the face means high likelyhood we have failed or will fail.

Online Kimera

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #197 on: December 06, 2012, 12:37:48 PM »
Ok that throws out my first ideas (glabrezu or alkalith)

I'll look into something that could pass more easily as a human then

Offline PaleEnchantress

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #198 on: December 06, 2012, 12:39:24 PM »
Ok that throws out my first ideas (glabrezu or alkalith)

I'll look into something that could pass more easily as a human then

Not really, you can always use magic (your own or someone elses) and even if you don't look human you just have to use intermediaries. Glabrezu sounds good really.

Offline Zaer Darkwail

Re: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard
« Reply #199 on: December 06, 2012, 12:42:56 PM »
Aye, spells/magic is useful for disguises.

Anyways my char specializes likely to act up 'front' as a villain for the hero and use magical means preserve himself while taking deathblows (or fake/feign his own death in dramatic fashion). As vampire though it limits the stages where my char can act so in beginning he likely works as unseen mastermind (dominate person someone to act as villain example).