Topic: [D&D 3.5 high-level evil campaign] Project Blackguard

[TheGlyphstone]

Yes it is undead leadership. The only real penalty they give each other is a small one for having an animal companion/familiar/other cohort.

Your leadership score is treated as 2 higher
than it otherwise would be for the purposes of attracting undead
followers and treated as 4 lower than it otherwise would be for
the purposes of attracting living followers.

There's no part of Undead Leadership that says you can't have real Leadership alongside it (though I'd feel very guilty trying to get Undead Leadership as a Thrallherd, and be grumpy and resentful if doubling up on Leadership feats is allowed since my PrC capstone is getting 2x cohorts), but the -2 for having a companion/familiar would be a total net of +0 to your Undead follower and -6 to your Living followers.

[PaleEnchantress]

There's no part of Undead Leadership that says you can't have real Leadership alongside it (though I'd feel very guilty trying to get Undead Leadership as a Thrallherd), but the -2 for having a companion/familiar would be a total net of +0 to your Undead follower and -6 to your Living followers.

In almost every game I play my follower level is more limited by my level than the max cohort level. Usually when I start 12th level games i look at the chart and say "Damn it, why does it have to cap out at 25!"

[PaleEnchantress]

Another race that I may be interested in is Pixie (+4 LA)

I'd much rather a nymph, but if the +8 LA vampire can be made manageable Nymph can be. If Zaer somehow gets vampire lord free though i'll probably just go with that.

[TheGlyphstone]

In almost every game I play my follower level is more limited by my level than the max cohort level. Usually when I start 12th level games i look at the chart and say "Damn it, why does it have to cap out at 25!"

Huh. I hadn't noticed that, by strict RAW, Cohorts aren't affected by the negative modifiers - it's not like anyone cares about the follower mooks for Leadership anyways.

So yeah, grumpy and resentful. That's all I have left.

[PaleEnchantress]

Huh. I hadn't noticed that, by strict RAW, Cohorts aren't affected by the negative modifiers - it's not like anyone cares about the follower mooks for Leadership anyways.

So yeah, grumpy and resentful. That's all I have left.

I like the Mooks though, I put them to work in sweat shops and use them as business employees.

[TheGlyphstone]

I like the Mooks though, I put them to work in sweat shops and use them as business employees.

You have to safeguard them though and give them decent living/working conditions, because if they die it becomes a stacking penalty to your Leadership score. Believers are so much better on that front - pack mules, bodyguards, trap detectors, trail rations, whatever you want, and they're replaced without penalty within 24 hours.

[PaleEnchantress]

You have to safeguard them though and give them decent living/working conditions, because if they die it becomes a stacking penalty to your Leadership score. Believers are so much better on that front - pack mules, bodyguards, trap detectors, trail rations, whatever you want, and they're replaced without penalty within 24 hours.

Letting them wither and die is just a one time penalty to my score. I'll often factor in "Cruelty" at the start of the game anyway since I know ill get there.. Causing the death of my own cohort is the only penalty that stacks.  Believers are better for that but followers will fit.

One of my favorite uses for followers, is having some hunky barbarians chained to me via the Belt of the Dread Emperor

[Kunoichi]

Kunoichi wants to be a fiend of possession. With a succubus she would have no class abilities when the game starts and she wouldn't be finished with her 6 level class until level 18. Meanwhile a fighter with 10 outsider hit dice is just missing some feats.

Actually, I'd reduce my +6 LA by the amount of racial HD I have, giving me an effective LA of zero. ^^; Quite useful for me, since it means I could start off the game with all 6 levels in Fiend of Possession, if I wanted.  It also works pretty well for certain spellcasting monsters with innate casting equal to their HD, like Glyph's Unbodied or something like a Rakshasa or Psionic Mindflayer.

Admittedly, though, it is also a pretty good boost for melee.  We're about to get to the level where melee starts to really need that boost, though, so I think it's a fair tradeoff, myself.

Also, it's opening up some character concepts for me that I wouldn't have really thought of, before.  For example, since most Lycanthropes gets racial HD far in excess of their LA, lycanthropy could be used to furnish our prospective Paladin with quite the epic mount...

[PaleEnchantress]

Actually, I'd reduce my +6 LA by the amount of racial HD I have, giving me an effective LA of zero. ^^; Quite useful for me, since it means I could start off the game with all 6 levels in Fiend of Possession, if I wanted.  It also works pretty well for certain spellcasting monsters with innate casting equal to their HD, like Glyph's Unbodied or something like a Rakshasa or Psionic Mindflayer.

Admittedly, though, it is also a pretty good boost for melee.  We're about to get to the level where melee starts to really need that boost, though, so I think it's a fair tradeoff, myself.

Also, it's opening up some character concepts for me that I wouldn't have really thought of, before.  For example, since most Lycanthropes gets racial HD far in excess of their LA, lycanthropy could be used to furnish our prospective Paladin with quite the epic mount...

I read what what the DM said differently than you did. It sounded like he meant to balance it by giving you racial HD equal to your LA. Meaning a Succubus with 6 hit dice normally and an LA of 6 would start with 12 hit dice. Being LA +0 now but still Ecl 12

[Kunoichi]

No, that's what happens for templates.  So, for example, if I wanted to be a Half-Fiend, then I'd wind up getting an extra 4 Outsider HD in place of taking a +4 LA.  For monsters with racial HD, you get a nice LA discount instead.

[TheGlyphstone]

Basically zero LA.

Trial rules:

For monsters, reduce LA by number of racial hit die (minimum zero)

For templates, LA can be swapped for racial hit die, giving you hp, bab, saves, etc.

I reserve the right to make exceptions.

So, for a Succubus...6 RHD would mean -6 LA, which means a total +0 LA.

[PaleEnchantress]

So, for a Succubus...6 RHD would mean -6 LA, which means a total +0 LA.

HOLY SHIT I CAM BE A NYMPH NOW! I don't even lose caster levels for it!

[TheGlyphstone]

HOLY SHIT I CAM BE A NYMPH NOW! I don't even lose caster levels for it!

You'd still walk away with a LA of +1, since your initial LA is +7 and you only have 6 RHD to 'soak' with, but yeah.

[PaleEnchantress]

You'd still walk away with a LA of +1, since your initial LA is +7 and you only have 6 RHD to 'soak' with, but yeah.

True but Nymph has a caster level of 7. So that balances out I'm down a hit dice but no caster levels. 

[Kunoichi]

Now all you need to know is if you can swap the Druid casting for Necromancy.

[TheGlyphstone]

Now all you need to know is if you can swap the Druid casting for Necromancy.

That'll be a much harder sell.

Druids can be Evil, but Pale will probably have to pick between Nymph and Widow Queen.

[PaleEnchantress]

Now all you need to know is if you can swap the Druid casting for Necromancy.

Don't need to go specialist. Basic wizard will be enough. For an Unseelie Alligned nymph wizard makes sense.

[PaleEnchantress]

That'll be a much harder sell.

Druids can be Evil, but Pale will probably have to pick between Nymph and Widow Queen.

Considering someone else was planning on swapping wizard (or was it sorcerer) for cleric, I doubt it will be a hard sell at all.

[PaleEnchantress]

Hey Kunoichi got any hot male nymph necormancer picts? Im going to dive through my collection for some too.

[TheGlyphstone]

Considering someone else was planning on swapping wizard (or was it sorcerer) for cleric, I doubt it will be a hard sell at all.

That doesn't make it any less of a hard sell, it just means it won't be any harder of a sell than the other swap. Autocad could just say 'no, stick with the racial casting you have'.

Hey Kunoichi got any hot male nymph necormancer picts? Im going to dive through my collection for some too.

Nymphs come in male? I thought their opposite number were satyrs.

[Kunoichi]

None, but I can certainly see what I come up with. ^^ I'll PM you the results, since I'm sure the GM wouldn't want this thread getting clogged up with pictures of attractive men and zombies.

[PaleEnchantress]

That doesn't make it any less of a hard sell, it just means it won't be any harder of a sell than the other swap. Autocad could just say 'no, stick with the racial casting you have'.

Nymphs come in male? I thought their opposite number were satyrs.

#1: I have a feeling I can convince him to say yes

#2: Since i'm playing a male one they do.

[TheGlyphstone]

#1: I have a feeling I can convince him to say yes

#2: Since i'm playing a male one they do.

That feels like circular logic, but it's not really a big deal anyways...still, I wouldn't make character plans based on assuming the DM says yes to everything you ask for, down that dark road lies TheoryOp.

[PaleEnchantress]

That feels like circular logic, but it's not really a big deal anyways...still, I wouldn't make character plans based on assuming the DM says yes to everything you ask for, down that dark road lies TheoryOp.

Mostly I just have no alternative if he says no. I can't think of any other races that would work well. Nymph fits both mechanically and conceptually.

[TheGlyphstone]

Mostly I just have no alternative if he says no. I can't think of any other races that would work well. Nymph fits both mechanically and conceptually.

Human? Elf? Half-Elf? Anything with the Unseelie Fey template? The joy of 3.x is having OVER 9000 ways to represent pretty much anything, I'm sure we can find at least two alternatives to 'Nymph with innate Wizard casting' if you share what your concept is.