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Author Topic: BattleTech 3050 ((Looking for new recruits!))  (Read 16141 times)

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Offline Branwen

Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #225 on: November 25, 2012, 12:55:33 PM »
To abundantly populate our game is what Sara meant to say, Saric.  Sorry about that.  I think she stubbed her toe on something.  You know how that can hurt.

Offline Sara Nilsson

Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #226 on: November 25, 2012, 01:08:58 PM »
yes.. ouch my toe! woe is me... *hops on one foot*

Offline Saric

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Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #227 on: November 26, 2012, 12:23:59 AM »
"abundantly populate" the game... right. I believe that. I don't suspect she was saying 'abuse' at all, honest. [/sarcasm]

LoL. I've play several of the games but I'm still unfamiliar with the personal world (I've never read any of the books so I'm more familiar with the 'Mechs then the locations or the people that live in them.) but the guy I'm planing won't be rolling over for anyone he doesn't want too... and then it will just be to get them where he wants them! >:)

Anyway some unexpected work came up so I didn't have time to put the profile together today. And it's 1:22 AM here right now so I'm having trouble seeing straight... so I'll have it up tomorrow for sure. The 'Mech should be pretty good but the personal backstory is going to need some help.

Offline KaylaM

Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #228 on: November 26, 2012, 12:29:35 AM »
Well, I'm happy to help and something of a know-it-all. All you need to to is ask.

Offline Sara Nilsson

Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #229 on: November 26, 2012, 12:45:47 AM »
"abundantly populate" the game... right. I believe that. I don't suspect she was saying 'abuse' at all, honest. [/sarcasm]

would i do that? *bats eyelashes and looks innocent*

Offline Saric

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Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #230 on: November 26, 2012, 01:36:35 AM »
Well, I'm happy to help and something of a know-it-all. All you need to to is ask.

I'll be quilt happy to take you up on that! As I intend to pilot a heavily modified Charger-3k I was thinking of someone originally from the Draconis Combine who spends some time in the Solaris VII arena earning the cash for the mods before moving into the merc business. What do you recommend for a homeworld and what kind of conditions are required to become a Mechwarrior in the Combine? I was intending to go for a street rat that enlisted as soon as he could fake his age but then I realized such a person would probably end up in the infantry... on the other hand good reflexes go a long way and the Charger, while well respected in the Combine, is mostly considered a rear area and garrison mech rather then a front line unit, so it's not the kind of thing you'd expect anyone with contacts to be piloting...

Thoughts?

would i do that? *bats eyelashes and looks innocent*

On the grounds that I assume all innocent looks herald guilt and depravity... yes! :P

Online WargtassTopic starter

Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #231 on: November 26, 2012, 02:40:51 AM »
Everyone seems to be Combine these days...  :P

We are already pretty full in the Assault-department, I think we would profit more from balancing the team with a medium or heavy. The Red team could especially profit from one of these and it would make it easier once the rebalance of the teams comes along later on.

Offline KaylaM

Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #232 on: November 26, 2012, 05:05:24 AM »
I'll be quilt happy to take you up on that! As I intend to pilot a heavily modified Charger-3k I was thinking of someone originally from the Draconis Combine who spends some time in the Solaris VII arena earning the cash for the mods before moving into the merc business. What do you recommend for a homeworld and what kind of conditions are required to become a Mechwarrior in the Combine? I was intending to go for a street rat that enlisted as soon as he could fake his age but then I realized such a person would probably end up in the infantry... on the other hand good reflexes go a long way and the Charger, while well respected in the Combine, is mostly considered a rear area and garrison mech rather then a front line unit, so it's not the kind of thing you'd expect anyone with contacts to be piloting...

Generally in the Combine, the expectations for being a Mechwarrior are a combination of being born to a non-scummy 'acceptable' social caste (ie, not untouchable, street rat or the like) and being able to deal in heavy-handed application of indoctrination and the like. It's probably the military least friendly to the lowest of the low, where your social background will be one of the biggest determinants to what your role will be. Street rats get a rifle and pointed at the Gajin Invader.

There are exceptions; the Ghost Regiments are outside of this because of their being staffed by Yakuza. While a part of the DCMS, they largely exist outside of its major command structures and the like. The problem is that they are run like criminal organizations, and, as such, deal rather harshly with their own.

Everyone seems to be Combine these days...  :P

In my experience, a lot of people get all hung up on the "OMG Japan, squee" part of the Draconis Combine and willingly overlook the negative end of it. The Combine is a backwards, xenophobic, dystopian hellhole at the best of times and definitely the worst Successor State to live in. It's a horrible, horrible place that, amongst its many failings, enforces an honour code that pretty much runs contrary to human nature.

But that's just my observation. Ahem.


Offline Sara Nilsson

Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #233 on: November 26, 2012, 06:47:17 AM »


In my experience, a lot of people get all hung up on the "OMG Japan, squee" part of the Draconis Combine and willingly overlook the negative end of it. The Combine is a backwards, xenophobic, dystopian hellhole at the best of times and definitely the worst Successor State to live in. It's a horrible, horrible place that, amongst its many failings, enforces an honour code that pretty much runs contrary to human nature.

But that's just my observation. Ahem.

not at alllll biased eh?

Offline mvo33

Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #234 on: November 26, 2012, 07:40:37 AM »
I concurs with KaylaM's assessment of the combine, up until 3055-3060 when Theodore Kurita can really institute his reforms and changes its basically fuedal Japan (and doesn't really get much beyond that with the reforms).  Even if you do join the army, most likely you will end up in the infantry or mechanized division instead of being able to even enter a Mechwarrior academy.

If you want an Asian looking character, I suggest being from the Federated Commonwealth's Dracons March (a set of worlds that have are hotly fought over between the two sides, every war a few planets change sides.  Or be from the St Ives Compact, they are more Chinese than Japanese though.

Matt

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #235 on: November 26, 2012, 08:25:05 AM »
Yeah, in 3049 life for the non-nobility sucked balls bigger than an Atlas. It was Medieval/Feudal Japan IN SPAAAACE, after all.

If you really want to be Combine and low-class and ever see the inside of a Mech, I'd suggest actually being from the Kuritan district of Solaris VII itself, and 'border-jumping' to another House District at a low enough age that you weren't immersed in the Combine's culture yet. A street rat would never be able to afford the transit fees, so you'd have to born on the Planet of Games to expatriate parents, start as a parts monkey, work your way up to repairman, then get a lucky break by being signed as a trainee gladiator for a bottom-rank stable.

Offline Latooni Subota

Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #236 on: November 26, 2012, 10:58:38 AM »
Indeed. Being a Snake is HORRIBLE for basically everyone except the tippy top of the food chain. Even then, some of the nobles have some particularly bad cards they've been dealt due to other family members fucking things up for everyone else, or political shenanigans.

Offline Saric

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Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #237 on: November 26, 2012, 12:59:17 PM »
Everyone seems to be Combine these days...  :P

We are already pretty full in the Assault-department, I think we would profit more from balancing the team with a medium or heavy. The Red team could especially profit from one of these and it would make it easier once the rebalance of the teams comes along later on.

I was going with the Combine because that's the major user of Charger class 'Mechs (they have an exclusive contract even if the manufacturer tries to ignore it and sell them on the black market.

Also the Charger was envisioned as an Assault scout and, with the modifications I'm intending, mine should be very under-gunned (only 5 ER medium lasers and 2 flamers) but fully armored with a top speed of 97km/s standard which can go up to something around 150-160km/s in sprints (I still got to crunch some numbers for specifics). Also I punch things. ;D

Am I correct in my belief that the Slave targeting computers aren't out yet? Otherwise I need to get one of those to allow missile-based fire support.

Generally in the Combine, the expectations for being a Mechwarrior are a combination of being born to a non-scummy 'acceptable' social caste (ie, not untouchable, street rat or the like) and being able to deal in heavy-handed application of indoctrination and the like. It's probably the military least friendly to the lowest of the low, where your social background will be one of the biggest determinants to what your role will be. Street rats get a rifle and pointed at the Gajin Invader.

There are exceptions; the Ghost Regiments are outside of this because of their being staffed by Yakuza. While a part of the DCMS, they largely exist outside of its major command structures and the like. The problem is that they are run like criminal organizations, and, as such, deal rather harshly with their own.

Right... not the Combine then...

If you want an Asian looking character, I suggest being from the Federated Commonwealth's Dracons March (a set of worlds that have are hotly fought over between the two sides, every war a few planets change sides.  Or be from the St Ives Compact, they are more Chinese than Japanese though.

I was actually not intending an Asian looking character, hence part of the reason for the 'street rat' thing.

If you really want to be Combine and low-class and ever see the inside of a Mech, I'd suggest actually being from the Kuritan district of Solaris VII itself, and 'border-jumping' to another House District at a low enough age that you weren't immersed in the Combine's culture yet. A street rat would never be able to afford the transit fees, so you'd have to born on the Planet of Games to expatriate parents, start as a parts monkey, work your way up to repairman, then get a lucky break by being signed as a trainee gladiator for a bottom-rank stable.

I'm actually liking the 'work your way up' aspect of this suggestion and just dropping a known region of origin. Among other things it would provide a detailed knowledge of 'Mechs (which I can at least fake) but a lack of everyday knowledge about the larger world (which I have a matching lack of).

Thoughts?

Offline KaylaM

Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #238 on: November 26, 2012, 04:08:39 PM »
not at alllll biased eh?

No actually. That's the assessment of a long-time player who actually quite likes the Combine; however, I like it because it's a horrible, bleak, dystopian nightmare of a nation that presents ample opportunities for storytelling and "person versus the state" concepts. The Japanese culture of the Combine has long been played as a negative aspect, helping to reinforce the restrictive structures of the state and used as justification for its oppressive nature.

If you want an Asian looking character, I suggest being from the Federated Commonwealth's Dracons March (a set of worlds that have are hotly fought over between the two sides, every war a few planets change sides.  Or be from the St Ives Compact, they are more Chinese than Japanese though.

Actually, the most Monoculturally Japanese world in the Inner Sphere, New Kyoto, has never been a part of the Combine and is in the Lyran Commonwealth.

The Inner Sphere is not made up of gigantic ethnic blocs, and certainly just because somebody looks Asian doesn't mean they're going to be from those sectors of space. Ethnically, the Inner Sphere is something of a mish-mash with "ambiguously brown" often being the rule of the day. Two of my personal favourite examples are Graf Heinz-Otto Von Telextria (a fat black man with blue eyes who's native language is Portuguese) and Rabbi (no first name given) Martinez (Fair skin, red hair and Asian-looking green eyes)

I was going with the Combine because that's the major user of Charger class 'Mechs (they have an exclusive contract even if the manufacturer tries to ignore it and sell them on the black market.

Also the Charger was envisioned as an Assault scout and, with the modifications I'm intending, mine should be very under-gunned (only 5 ER medium lasers and 2 flamers) but fully armored with a top speed of 97km/s standard which can go up to something around 150-160km/s in sprints (I still got to crunch some numbers for specifics). Also I punch things. ;D

Am I correct in my belief that the Slave targeting computers aren't out yet? Otherwise I need to get one of those to allow missile-based fire support.


That doesn't work. As an 80-ton 'Mech, the Charger has the largest engine a BattleMech can possibly use. It can't get any faster then it is now.

Earnestly, with what you're looking for you might be better off with a Heavy or Medium 'Mech. The Ostol is all laser armed, reasonably fast and very punchy

Offline Saric

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Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #239 on: November 26, 2012, 05:50:50 PM »
That doesn't work. As an 80-ton 'Mech, the Charger has the largest engine a BattleMech can possibly use. It can't get any faster then it is now.

Earnestly, with what you're looking for you might be better off with a Heavy or Medium 'Mech. The Ostol is all laser armed, reasonably fast and very punchy

It's got a top speed of 86.4km/s standard, I'm looking at removing the LRM 20, it's ammo, and the Artemis IV fire control. Then I'm looking converting the XL Fusion engine to a Compact Fusion engine to save space, but then more then making up for the added weight by installing an Endo Steel Frame and Ferro-Fibrous armor, the added mass of which necessitates the compact engine rather then a standard... I think.

Regardless I was hoping that the overall weight reduction would increase the speed somewhat but if not that's still going to come from me adding TSM (may or may not be the gas reactive type but as a merc group member I doubt I'll have to worry about that) and a Supercharger. A 80 ton 'Mech with a base speed of 86.4 goes up to 97 when TSM kicks in (See the Cudgel for comparison) and the Supercharger states that it boosts engine output to 125% so the speed should go up another 22km/s or so (just increasing the base speed) to 119km/s. Finally the 3K variant comes with jump jets standard and a jump distance of 150 meters. Since the supercharger is on a fusion engine it also applies it's benefits to Jump Jet use. (Note: the maximum speed listed is assuming the benefits of the TSM and the Supercharger are additive rather then multiplicative, it could be higher but I've not found any 'Mech that uses both even though the descriptions state that they could be combined...)

I was considering adding some kind of prototype pneumatic hammer to the arms but I don't think I have any left over room for that...

Is there a problem with anything I've covered? Other then the cost involved of course. I'm kind of eyeballing the weight and mass loads available and needed since the wiki is horribly lacking in precise measurements on anything.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 05:56:40 PM by Saric »

Offline mvo33

Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #240 on: November 26, 2012, 06:11:35 PM »
the supercharger wasn't really invented/widespread till 3078, so that will be a problem.  Similarly compact fusion engines were released till around that time as well...not to mention the compacts are heavier than XL, so instead of adding space you are actually removing it.

The cudgel is using MASC to increase his speed and not TSM

Speed doesn't generally increase as weight drops, TSM still requires you to run your mech hot though (according to the pnp rules you need to over heat by 7 points, and speed and targeting generally decrease as the heat levels go up).

The only way to make a Charger faster is to then add teh MASC which also has a chance of burning out during use.

Matt


Offline KaylaM

Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #241 on: November 26, 2012, 07:33:41 PM »
As Matt said, you're depending on technologies that don't exist at this point. The Charger's engine can't get any lighter then it is beyond slowing it down which is defeating the point of this plan. You could use MASC ofr short sprinting bursts but it's risky and won't improve your base speed. The safe (ie, not booby-trapped) Triple-Strength Myomer doesn't exist at this point either beyond a handful of prototypes.

Also, the Charger-3K wouldn't be widely available outside the Combine military at this point; it was a cutting edge and moderately secret machine. The Cudgel also doesn't exist at this point.

If running fast and punching people is what you're after, a modified Ostroc or Ostol could do the trick with the availble tech. Given time, I can whip something up.



Offline mvo33

Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #242 on: November 26, 2012, 07:49:55 PM »
You could take an Ostsol, remove a Large Laser and pick up a Hatchet (I could be wrong, I have this crazy idea that a Hatchet is about five pounds). 

The thing is punching damage is tonnage divided by 10 rounded down, a hatchet is ton divided by 5 (same as a kick but a kick can only hit the legs...no high kicking mechs here, a punch hits above the waist). 

That would give you a decent speed mech that can do more damage than the Charger could with a punch.  On the down side you lack a real long range punch but it'd be similar to that Hatchetman, but about 20kph faster.  A claw could also work, if you're from Solaris VII...they are seen pretty much exclusively on Solaris (damage is tonnage divided by 7 rounded down...not sure how much it weights), they are very rare and not mass produced at all you'd have to build and this would almost definitely need approval.

Matt

Offline Branwen

Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #243 on: November 26, 2012, 07:51:03 PM »
Get a Locust!  We could be twinsies!

Offline mvo33

Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #244 on: November 26, 2012, 07:52:00 PM »
Twinsies...*squeeeeeeee*

Offline Saric

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Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #245 on: November 26, 2012, 07:57:24 PM »
the supercharger wasn't really invented/widespread till 3078, so that will be a problem.  Similarly compact fusion engines were released till around that time as well...not to mention the compacts are heavier than XL, so instead of adding space you are actually removing it.

The cudgel is using MASC to increase his speed and not TSM

Speed doesn't generally increase as weight drops, TSM still requires you to run your mech hot though (according to the pnp rules you need to over heat by 7 points, and speed and targeting generally decrease as the heat levels go up).

The only way to make a Charger faster is to then add the MASC which also has a chance of burning out during use.

Ok... about half your post is demonstrably wrong...

From the supercharger entry: "While an unusual if experimental add-on for centuries, the technology achieved a mainstream level of acceptance and refinement during the Word of Blake Jihad, with manufacturers within both the Inner Sphere and Clan-space regularly producing superchargers from 3078 on."

So not unavailable just unusual but commonplace unusual.

The compact fusion engine is stated to be half the size of a standard engine but 50% heavier so I am freeing space at the cost of weight with that, but I think the Endo Steel and Ferro-Fibrous armor more then make up for that. And I'm not sure when it becomes available as the wiki only says that it's "A relatively new concept, few base variant 'Mechs utilize this engine." and then goes on to mention two 'Mechs that do use it standard which were released in 3069 and 3068 respectively... since those are only some of the first to use it standard there is no indication of when it first becomes available as an optional upgrade. Unless you have another source of data? If you do I could really use some supplemental info. Regardless the LX engine the Charger-3K has standard is double the size for half the weight, so just switching to a standard engine might work anyway.

The Cudgel entry clearly states it uses TSM.

If you have a larger engine but less for it to move then you can move it faster, simple physics applies after all. I am also aware of the heat requirements for TSM but between the 5 ER medium lasers and the jump jets I should be fine, to say nothing of the flamers or the supercharger. Also since TSM makes you go faster when it activates I think you can ignore the slowing effects of heat as being already compensated for. As for the drop in targeting... hopefully I'm close enough to punch them by the time that becomes and issue.

As Matt said, you're depending on technologies that don't exist at this point. The Charger's engine can't get any lighter then it is beyond slowing it down which is defeating the point of this plan. You could use MASC ofr short sprinting bursts but it's risky and won't improve your base speed. The safe (ie, not booby-trapped) Triple-Strength Myomer doesn't exist at this point either beyond a handful of prototypes.

Also, the Charger-3K wouldn't be widely available outside the Combine military at this point; it was a cutting edge and moderately secret machine. The Cudgel also doesn't exist at this point.

If running fast and punching people is what you're after, a modified Ostroc or Ostol could do the trick with the availble tech. Given time, I can whip something up.

I've addressed the first few statements here above and I said I might have to use the TSM that still reacts to the gas, but it only reacts to a certain type of gas so it's not like it a normal battlefield condition and I figured I risk it.

The 3K was deployed as early as 3039, that's 10 years since it was confirmed seen in action for the manufacturer who is stated to engage in black market sales to sell a shipment or two off. I know the Cudgel doesn't exist yet, that was just the first example I found of an 80 ton 'Mech that moved 86km/s standard and had TSM, it was mentioned as a way to show how I worked out my numbers for the speeds reached.

The punching came up because the Charger is known for doing so, so I ran with it. I mostly just enjoy the concept of an Assault class scout 'Mech which is what the Charger was originally designed for. It allows for a scout that is far less dependent on cover and one which can be more daring in where it goes because it doesn't have to worry about being killed in one hit from the Atlas around the corner. Once the battle proper has been joined and scouting becomes less important it can perform flanking (and counter-flanking) maneuvers and work on running down smaller and weaker enemy scouts (which is the reason for the ER lasers instead of the pulse lasers it comes with, more range for damaging light and medium scout 'Mechs, allowing him to catch up faster and without having to chase them as far away from the engagement site). This design is based less around fighting other Assault 'Mechs and more around scouting highly dangerous areas or those with limited mobility, where standard scouts would be at risk, and harassing enemy Heavies and Assaults while still being able to catch and kill any Light or Medium that's foolish enough to come too close. Does that make sense?

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #246 on: November 26, 2012, 08:12:52 PM »
Quote
If you have a larger engine but less for it to move then you can move it faster, simple physics applies after all.

Physics?

THIS.

IS.

BATTLETECH!!!!!!

*Kicks Saric down a well*

Offline Branwen

Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #247 on: November 26, 2012, 08:17:16 PM »
Best post ever.

*pulls Saric out of the well and hugs him before setting him back in the thread*
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 08:39:20 PM by Branwen »

Offline KaylaM

Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #248 on: November 26, 2012, 08:37:27 PM »
Errr.... no. On just about every count.

First up, I'm going to ask an earnest question: Are you familiar with Battletech's construction rules? And not just through computer games but actually using them in the tabletop P&P game?

The CGR-3K's 400 XL engine weighs 26.5 tons which is the lightest engine a Charger can carry while still maintaining that speed. A 400 Compact engine is going to weigh 79 tons. The 400 Standard weighs 52.5 tons, and is the heart of the CGR-1A1's problems. You're not going to be able to get any more weight out of changing the engine type.

Endo Steel is going to save you a flat four tons. The CGR-3K already uses ferro-fiberous armour and is still considered under-armoured for its weight.

The compact engine is not introduced until 3068 and doesn't become commonplace until the 3070s; the Technology simply doesn't exist at this point. Likewise, the Supercharger isn't ready for mass-production until 3079. It exists prior to that point, but it is a rare and expensive. The ER Medium Laser won't be invented until 3060 or so, again well after the game is set. And, while yes, the booby-trapped TSM exists at this point, it is also a rare and expensive technology that has never reached mass production and is limited only to a few governmental-owed test models. None of these things are going to be available to a "street rat" mercenary in the 3040s.

(Yes, I have my rulebooks at hand here; they're a lot, lot more reliable then the Wiki)

Also, it's the CGR-1A1 Charger that was widely sold on the black market, not the CGR-3K. Again, a world of difference. The 3K is not going to be available at this point outside of the DCMS.

If you're that obsessed with punching things, as mentioned, you can use an Ostroc or Ostol that are just as well armoured, just as fast and far better armed, and are far more readily available at the game's point in time.

Offline Saric

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Re: BattleTech 3049 ((1 spot left))
« Reply #249 on: November 26, 2012, 09:39:05 PM »
Ok where to start... No I am not familiar with anything about Battletech outside the computer games.

The wiki just talks about things being '50% heavier' or lighter or something like that, without giving the weight of the original and it mentions nothing about ferro-fiberous on the 3K. As I stated the wiki gives no detailed info on the compact engine and only states that the supercharger was available, but not commonplace, for centuries before the 3070s.

The only reference I have is the wiki so I've been basing all design ideas and statements off of that. If it is incorrect or I have misinterpreted it please continue to inform me.

Sorry, it just says they engaged in black market sales, I assumed that would apply to all models.

As I just said I am not obsessed with punching things, that was a notable feature of the Charger which I chose for it's role as an Assault class scout and I was just trying to use what I had.

At this point it seems I have a general backstory and a personality for a pilot and absolutely no working ideas for a 'Mech, nor any reliable or detailed sources of information.

As such I would like to request a listing of what roles are filled or lacking (the list of 'Mechs on the first page doesn't really tell me a lot since other 'Mechs in the computer games basically provide distractions and bullet shields more then useful aid and I've never played the table game or read any of the books) and I'll start trying to find something from scratch... I'll look at the Ostroc and the Ostol if you think those would prove helpful to the company.

Thank you all for your aid, assistance, criticism and patience with the complete newb over here.