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Author Topic: "My vote won't make any difference...."  (Read 2683 times)

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Offline Kythia

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Re: "My vote won't make any difference...."
« Reply #50 on: November 26, 2012, 08:18:16 PM »
You know we have a coalition government with a third party at the moment, right?

I voted against PR in the referendum - don't wanna get too off topic by going in to it.  And yeah, there is a common opinion that the two major parties are similar, not sure how true it is but no real interest in holding that debate.  But the very fact that we have three main political parties makes it much more open than I get the sense the US is - just my impression, Americans, no offense if I'm wrong.  It feels like a third party candidate is almost a joke candidate at the moment while we have three major parties and a host of other minor but influential ones - the Greens have an MP, UKIP are important on a European stage, the BNP do well in some local elections.  Yeah, none of those I'd want in power but as I say, my impression is that we're way more diverse politcal party wise than the US

EDIT:  Just thought - thats not even getting into the horrific can o' worms that is Northern Irish politics and is also ignoring the strength of the SNP and Plaid Cymru.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 08:25:59 PM by Kythia »

Offline Cheka Man

Re: "My vote won't make any difference...."
« Reply #51 on: November 26, 2012, 11:45:19 PM »
The BNP are racist, the UKIP is crazy, the Greens are good but the voting system keeps them out.

Offline Kythia

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Re: "My vote won't make any difference...."
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2012, 08:28:29 AM »
I suspect we're talking at cross purposes a bit here.  The greens have an MP and two MEPs.  To me that would mean the voting system doesn't keep them out because, you know, they've not been kept out.  But maybe you mean as a strong fourth party?  I think we'll see the English Democrats take that position if anyone does, they're doing increasingly well at a local level.  But whatever, it seems like we're defining some terms a little differently.

Offline Cheka Man

Re: "My vote won't make any difference...."
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2012, 09:17:48 AM »
1 MP out of 600+, hardly a strong third party.

Offline Kythia

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Re: "My vote won't make any difference...."
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2012, 09:41:03 AM »
An increasongly strong possibility for fourth party - and only in  England at that.  The lib dems are pretty clearly the third party in England. Being in power and all.   As I say, SNP, DUP, Sinn Fein, Plaid Cymru, etc,etc, etc all have multiple representatives on a regional level, and UKIP are strong at what they do.  Not including independants there are fifteen parties with elected representatives that I can think of off the top of my head, there may well be town councils with other parties represented.

Boring List
Labour, Conservative, Liberal Democrat, Plaid Cymru, Scottish National Party, UK Independence Party, British National Party, English Democrats, Green Party, Democratic Unionist Party, Sinn Fein, Ulster Unionist Party, Social Democrat and Labour Party, Alliance Party of Northern Ireland and Traditional Unionist Voice

But yeah, it doesn't seem like we're gonna agree.  I can't see how you think the UK is a two party system, you can't see how I don't.  That's fantastic, I have a sneaking suspicion the world might be big enough for both of us.  But it does kinda mean we're both going to end up repeating ourselves so for the sake of the sanity of everyone else I'm gonna put down the whip and step slowly away from the horse carcass.

Until next we speak, Cheka.  Have a good afternoon.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "My vote won't make any difference...."
« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2012, 10:25:38 AM »
It's still weird to see Sinn Fein in politics. (when I lived in the Republic they were regarded as a mouthpiece of the IRA in the north) and it still blows my mind to here that Ian Paisley was around after the turn of the century. Such a hateful man...

Offline Kythia

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Re: "My vote won't make any difference...."
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2012, 10:32:53 AM »
Yeah.  They weren't regarded a a mouthpiece, they out and out were.  Sinn Fein are the political wing of the IRA.  I can't stress enough that this isn't conjecture, libel, anything like this, its solid statement of fact.  Martin McGuiness was head of the IRA.  It sticks in my craw that he's walking around a free man but whats the alternative?  Coming down hard on him and plunging Northern Ireland back into the troubles?  Neither alternative is particularly palateable but at least this way noone dies.

And I couldn't agree more about Paisley.  A horrific old bigot who can only claim any modicum of high ground because his opponents are murderers.  Awful awful human being.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "My vote won't make any difference...."
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2012, 10:40:56 AM »
Yeah.  They weren't regarded a a mouthpiece, they out and out were.  Sinn Fein are the political wing of the IRA.  I can't stress enough that this isn't conjecture, libel, anything like this, its solid statement of fact.  Martin McGuiness was head of the IRA.  It sticks in my craw that he's walking around a free man but whats the alternative?  Coming down hard on him and plunging Northern Ireland back into the troubles?  Neither alternative is particularly palateable but at least this way noone dies.

And I couldn't agree more about Paisley.  A horrific old bigot who can only claim any modicum of high ground because his opponents are murderers.  Awful awful human being.

Yeah, well in the south they were a LITTLE more but not much.  As for McGuniess he's not the only one with blood on his hands. Growing up in the republic in the 80s (79-82 to be precise) was an eye opener for a kid from the quiet south. The folks in Belfast had moved up to acid bombs in their clash with the police, the Montbatten assassination had just gone down, the hunger strikes and the rest were scary hints to me.

And as a Protestant to see a PREACHER like Paisley be so hateful..

Offline Kythia

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Re: "My vote won't make any difference...."
« Reply #58 on: November 27, 2012, 10:46:49 AM »
Ah, my apologies.  I'd missed your reference to the Republic in your previous post and just focused on South :-[

Yeah, Sinn Fein in the Republic are and were a little more.  I was born in 87 so I missed most of  the troubles - I remember Omagh though.  But a good friend of mine is from (London)Derry and talking to her mam about it all is amazing.

Offline Cheka Man

Re: "My vote won't make any difference...."
« Reply #59 on: November 27, 2012, 11:35:23 PM »
I'd like to make the UVF and IRA have a Hunger Games, with the winner getting their version of Ireland as long as only one survives.  :P

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "My vote won't make any difference...."
« Reply #60 on: November 27, 2012, 11:38:39 PM »
I'd like to make the UVF and IRA have a Hunger Games, with the winner getting their version of Ireland as long as only one survives.  :P

I used to joke that both the Republic of Ireland and the UK need to wall Northern Ireland off, let everyone who wants to leave out and wait a year or so for the crazies to kill each other..then let the rest of the folks back in and rebuild.

Both sides are ..well not nice folks, with ties in all sorts of criminal activices of one sort or another. I mean it was an open secret when I lived in the Republic that at least a few farmers along the border areas were 'double dipping' subsidies for income for the Provos.. and there are groups on both sides that did drug dealing AND protection schemes.

Offline Kythia

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Re: "My vote won't make any difference...."
« Reply #61 on: November 28, 2012, 01:59:29 AM »
Yeah, there was a fairly major bank robbery (apparently) 8 years ago.  Does that mean I'm getting old?  Coulda sworn it was yesterday.  Pretty open knowledge that it was the IRA, or at the very least pIRA members.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "My vote won't make any difference...."
« Reply #62 on: November 28, 2012, 02:54:47 AM »
Yeah, there was a fairly major bank robbery (apparently) 8 years ago.  Does that mean I'm getting old?  Coulda sworn it was yesterday.  Pretty open knowledge that it was the IRA, or at the very least pIRA members.

Oh yeah, the Northern Bank job in Belfast. Largest robbery, bank wise, in the British Isles.  The Provos had a crew that specialized in kidnap/robberies if I recall. An article I read compared it to a robbery in Beruit in the 60s, in that it was to finance something for an organization. The PLO got their operating capital in the Beruit job and I'm guessing the Provos did the same in the job. 

Offline Kythia

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Re: "My vote won't make any difference...."
« Reply #63 on: November 28, 2012, 02:59:46 AM »
Honestly didn't think word of that woulda spread to the US.  Could have saved myself finding the wikipedia article, realising it was eight years ago and sobbing bitterly into my lemon tea about how I'm getting old.  Ah well.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: "My vote won't make any difference...."
« Reply #64 on: November 28, 2012, 03:21:10 AM »
Honestly didn't think word of that woulda spread to the US.  Could have saved myself finding the wikipedia article, realising it was eight years ago and sobbing bitterly into my lemon tea about how I'm getting old.  Ah well.

I was based in Spain at the time. And I watch a lot of BBC.  And try to follow new from places I've been. Was real depressed to hear Longford Cathedral had been set fire to.