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Author Topic: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay  (Read 8195 times)

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Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #75 on: October 24, 2012, 10:00:59 AM »
Yelling "Fire!" if one is actively being assaulted and rape seems around the corner sounds like a dubious idea to me. I agree the word's been so overused in pranks that people would either not get what it was about or even respond in a very cross way when it turned out that there was no such thing as a fire going on. I don't think someone who was being attacked in the street or at a party would call out "RAPE! RAPE!" either - more likely she* would be kicking, saying "get off me you scum!" and the like. "Help!" would be kind of more likely than "Rape!"

Just adding that, as Trie is implying, it would be useless if the rape occurs at home or (probably also) on the job.

If I (as a non-op transwoman) was forced down myself by a gang of guys and made to suck them off or otherwise used, I would shout "HELP!!" or "Lay off you bastards!" - definitely not "FIRE!"

*yes, men can be raped but outside of jails it almost never happens in an assault way, by direct overpowering.

Beg to differ. Men CAN and HAVE been assaulted outside of prisons. I know of at least 5 guys in the Navy who were. Wrong time.. wrong place, berthing full of psychos. The psychology of men tends to keep them from stepping up.

Offline Moraline

Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #76 on: October 24, 2012, 10:05:52 AM »
I've been trying to figure out where you're going with this series of statements. It's depressing to see 'real rapist' brought up, but I'm moving past it with the assumption that you didn't mean it that way. We all put our feet in our mouths from time to time. :)

However, I think you've put your finger on a perception that feeds into some of the misconceptions about rape and sexual assault. If there is to be considered a so-called real rapist, the numbers show that he is overwhelmingly someone the victim knows. Alcohol, not Rohypnol or GHB, is the most common date rape drug. I think that a lot of women don't want to believe that their rapist is:

Someone they know, and possibly are attracted to.
Someone they would date.
Someone who might share mutual friends, or move in the same social circles.
Someone they will have to face again.
Someone who might defend themselves, not only to the authorities but to friends and family.
Someone they might have trusted.
Someone they might have liked.
Someone they might have loved.

That guy is the common rapist. That guy, right there in that list, is the man that women need to protect themselves most against. The one who drags people into the bushes is very nearly nonexistent. The multitude of women that are raped every year will have to worry about their friend, their boyfriend, a classmate, a coworker, a boss. Not only does focusing on Mister Bushes as a 'real' rapist defy the numbers, it does a disservice to women who are seeking to educate and protect themselves. Focusing on a phantom guy who has a miniscule chance of being one's attacker is not only wrong because it is incorrect, but it is also wrong because it teaches women to look out for the wrong kind of rapist.

Again, I agree with Trieste. Those concepts are the ones that have been proven over and over again.

Further to my earlier point, the "date rape" or assault by a known assailant is done as a means to exercise control over an uncontrollable circumstance for the attacker.

You will find that in nearly all cases the attacker has been someone that exhibits a need to control the people in their lives. These are also more often the same ones that will commit other violent physical assaults on people they know. Again, it's all about trying to control the world around them and the people in it.

People will most often lash out with violence or express extreme psychological swings in personality and behavior when they are experiencing a loss of control in their lives. (Depression, job loss, loss of relationships, physical illness, and of course mental illnesses.)

Those things will lead people to seek ways to try and gain control over their lives. For some that extreme means taking physical control over another person in the form of violence or sexual assault. (Prison life is a prime controlled example of this.)

@Taint - The sexual excitement is a symptom and not the cause of the sexual assault. The cause of the sexual assault is control. The only time that sex is the cause is when there is a chemical imbalance in the brain that leads to a psychological loss of control.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #77 on: October 24, 2012, 10:07:35 AM »
Beg to differ. Men CAN and HAVE been assaulted outside of prisons. I know of at least 5 guys in the Navy who were. Wrong time.. wrong place, berthing full of psychos. The psychology of men tends to keep them from stepping up.

Okay, very occasionally, but men getting raped in something like the typical assault style (with open violence or just flexing of muscles and intimidating gazes) doesn't happen anywhere *near* as often as with females - or transpersons of any variety except post-op FtM sex changers, who are men - being the victims. Agree?

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #78 on: October 24, 2012, 10:12:59 AM »
Okay, very occasionally, but men getting raped in something like the typical assault style (with open violence or just flexing of muscles and intimidating gazes) doesn't happen anywhere *near* as often as with females - or transpersons of any variety except post-op FtM sex changers, who are men - being the victims. Agree?

Of course.. but speaking as a child victim.. it DOES happen. It has taken me DECADES to even mention it. That and the realization that the little prick that took advantage of me died of a very nasty hormonal issue of his own.

I've heard a LOT of sea stories about the 'bad old days' in the Navy (I got in as the broom of 'Tailhook' brought a lot of awareness to the chain of command. I know of at least five or six 'suicides' that might have been male victims who couldn't handle things anymore even after. And one of my early mentors has a nasty fourteen inch scar across his chest from a 'prison rapist' in his berthing trying to 'get frisky'. Apparently the psycho thought No meant 'I like you cutting me as foreplay'. The earned my mentor a rating change and transfer out of the spaces..and the knifer a trip to Kanas (as Ft. Leavenworth)

Offline Cyrano Johnson

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Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #79 on: October 24, 2012, 10:41:09 AM »
Yelling "Fire!" if one is actively being assaulted and rape seems around the corner sounds like a dubious idea to me.

This makes sense. Added to which, while I get what Avis and Oniya are saying... my instinct when reacting to "Fire!" would not necessarily be to go charging in. A thousand times moreso for the word "Bomb!" A bomb is something you run from, I should think.

Offline Avis habilis

Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #80 on: October 24, 2012, 10:44:24 AM »
I've also heard "Don't jump!" suggested. You know somebody's gonna want to see who's jumping from what.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #81 on: October 24, 2012, 10:48:13 AM »
Actually if someone did shout "Help! - Rape!" in a sufficiently sharp, scared or loud kind of voice. on the street, in my neck of the woods, I think it's likely people *would* come to the rescue. And I bet the same is true of, let's say, most parts of Manhattan in the daytime and well into the evening. People are not that extremely jaded.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 10:49:29 AM by gaggedLouise »

Offline Avis habilis

Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #82 on: October 24, 2012, 10:57:51 AM »
People are not that extremely jaded.

Kitty Genovese would disagree.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #83 on: October 24, 2012, 10:58:13 AM »
The theory and phenomenon has actually very little to do with “pranksters” or with any sort of crying wolf syndrome.  Studies have indicated and shown repeatedly that when a victim screams for help, the people that can hear the victim do not respond.  On interviewing the people they all remark that they did not want to get involved, were afraid of retaliation (even when their identitiy would have been anonymous by simply calling 911), and “thought someone else would do it.”  This is called the notion of Diffused Responsibility or the bystander effect.  The most famous case being Catherine Genovese who was killed in her apartment complex in 1964 while screaming, “he stabbed me, he stabbed me.”  While largely considered to be inaccurate reporting, the bystander effect still stands.  Another example involves a woman being raped on the street of New York multiple times while people walked past.  The Bystander Effect is also thought to be seen in the creation of the Holocaust, the torture and murder of Ilan Halimi, and the gang rape of a 15 year old girl on the floor of her Homecoming Dance at Richmond Highschool.

Screaming “Fire” or “Bomb” while not a foolproof way to do so, grabs the attention of another passerby to alert them to danger that might be happening to them.  Merely someone running around the corner to ask “why the hell are you screaming fire when there’s no fire?” would be enough to stop a rape.  If I had to choose between being raped and someone being angry at me for calling fire when there wasn’t one, well someone else is getting their panties in a bunch.  Not me.

Also, people might flee from Fire or Bomb but they will call the police or fire department.  "Some crazy woman is screaming about a fire or bomb," will get them there pretty quick.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #84 on: October 24, 2012, 10:59:48 AM »
Kitty Genovese would disagree.

Sigh.. true.. sadly true.. such a lovely name for such a tragic end.

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Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #85 on: October 24, 2012, 11:01:24 AM »
Regarding the Richmond High School incident, from the words of someone who was there:

Quote
ABC7 spoke to another witness to the rape. He was summoned over by another bystander watching the attack.

"She was pretty quiet; I thought she was like dead for a minute but then I saw her moving around, I was like, 'Oh,'" the 16-year-old witness said.

He says he never called police because he did not have a cell phone, and he was scared.

"I really wanted to help her but I don't know, I just didn't," he said.

He watched for 15-20 minutes. Not even his family knows he was there.

"I feel like I could have done something but I don't feel like I have any responsibility for anything that happened," he said.
(Source)

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #86 on: October 24, 2012, 11:14:40 AM »
I think part of the problem is that most of us don't want to cry out prematurely, so that means many won't cry whatever it is or call attention until they really see themselves eggting overpowered - and by then it can be too late, if a lot ofg violence is used. Nobody wants to be seen as using a shout disproportionate to what they can point to seemed to be happening.

I also think discussing for a long time about exactly what  word to use is a bit of a sidetrack.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 02:30:46 PM by gaggedLouise »

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #87 on: October 24, 2012, 11:22:12 AM »
Male rape victims are certainly one of the most forgotten groups of victims in criminal statistics and reporting.  Even the FBI Uniform Crime Report lists rape as “the carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will.”  Note the language as knowledge of a female and not simply of a person.  Men are technically excluded from being able to report being raped under that definition.  I do think the FBI has changed or is changing the definition though and awareness for male rape is growing.  Rape of a man is just as much about power and control as any other rape, not to be classified as just another assault.  Men can also be raped by women as the act of rape is about consent, not arousal.  Also, as has already been previously stated, an erection does not necessitate arousal or desire for the act. 

Men are the least likely to report being raped and so true numbers are near impossible to determine. 

Offline consortium11

Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #88 on: October 24, 2012, 11:48:56 AM »
Men can also be raped by women as the act of rape is about consent, not arousal.  Also, as has already been previously stated, an erection does not necessitate arousal or desire for the act. 

Men are the least likely to report being raped and so true numbers are near impossible to determine.

Possibly off-topic but legally speaking it's not that simple. In the UK for example rape is defined as (emphasis mine):

Quote
1-(1) A person (A) commits an offence if—

    (a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,
    (b) B does not consent to the penetration, and
    (c) A does not reasonably believe that B consents.

As you can see for a legal rape to occur there must be penetration by the rapists penis. As such a female can only legally rape anyone in unusual circumstances; for example being part of a group that rapes someone.

It's all somewhat of a technicality; colloquially we would still consider them a rapist and the possible punishment for a serious sexual assault are identical as to a rape but legally it would not be rape.

Just to give an example that arousal also has nothing to do with it, there was the infamous case of the "Black Widow" in Russia, who used to drug men, tie them up and then use ropes to get and keep them erect while she had sex with them.

Although that story did give an example of how rape on males is minimised; on many of the forums I post on responses were along the lines of "Well if she was attractive it wasn't rape was it?" or "What sort of man turns down sex?".

Offline Trieste

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Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #89 on: October 24, 2012, 02:28:08 PM »
Kitty Genovese would disagree.

* Trieste heaves a giant sigh.

How many times does the legend of Kitty Genovese have to be challenged before that urban legend breaks?

If women are taught to yell "fire" or "bomb", it's not because of the so-called bystander effect.

Regarding the Richmond High School incident, from the words of someone who was there:
 (Source)

I don't know a lot of adults that wouldn't freeze up ... let alone teens. Hard to say what untrained people will do in situations like that - that's why intervention training exists, not because people don't want to help but because often they freeze up and don't know how.



I'm not saying that yelling "help" will in fact bring help, but I am saying that human psychology and social behavior is not as simple as pop psychology makes it out to be.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #90 on: October 24, 2012, 02:44:30 PM »
While Kity Genovese isn't as cut and dried as the old story says the fact is that apathy does come into play still. 

The bystander effect does happen, though in the Genovese case it was way over hyped.

watch the video in the right side

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #91 on: October 24, 2012, 02:46:32 PM »
Well, you’re partly right Trieste.  The Bystander Effect is part of the reason along with another aspect of social conditioning called Pluralistic Ignorance whereby people around look to others for cues regarding the situation.  This article provides some framework for the situation and reasons behind screaming “Fire” instead of “Help.”

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-social-thinker/200911/why-don-t-we-help-less-is-more-least-when-it-comes-bystanders

Offline Trieste

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Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #92 on: October 24, 2012, 03:04:22 PM »
Thanks for the blog post. I appreciate the effort, but I'm kind of frustrated with the post itself. It's just reeeeeaaaaalllly oversimplified, and 'diffusion of responsibility' is kind of another term for the bystander effect. Social cues are more believable than diffusion of responsibility. For example, why would anyone ever stop to help someone else collect their dropped books/parcels in a crowded hallway if nobody felt any kind of responsibility?

It seems too pat to me. I'm not a psychologist; I know the crime statistics above because I work in law enforcement but I am in no way qualified as a shrink. So it's my opinion, please understand that. I am skeptical.

Offline Avis habilis

Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #93 on: October 24, 2012, 03:08:20 PM »
For example, why would anyone ever stop to help someone else collect their dropped books/parcels in a crowded hallway if nobody felt any kind of responsibility?

I'm gonna go with "picking up books doesn't carry any personal risk or involvement with anything icky".

Offline Trieste

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Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #94 on: October 24, 2012, 03:10:23 PM »
Sure it does. You could easily get kicked, trampled, etc if you kneel down in a busy hallway to help someone out. Soooo... why would anyone do it if there is a diffusion of responsibility among the entire crowd?

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #95 on: October 24, 2012, 03:16:47 PM »
Trieste, are you saying contemporary society and the habits and attitudes of its people just ignores rape, turns a shared blind eye to the whole issue, to the victims and to the question why rape occurs? I don't know but that seems to be it, if you mean that we as a society (in the U.S. or in the West generally) wouldn't feel any moral responsibility to help someone who is pushed down and raped.

Not just a dropping around of responsibility, but no responsibility: "why should I lift my hand to take care of somebody who falls on their butt and is kicked, what's in it for me? I don't get paid for it, then it's a no-go."
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 03:20:25 PM by gaggedLouise »

Offline Trieste

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Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #96 on: October 24, 2012, 03:25:59 PM »
What I'm trying to say is that I'm skeptical of the explanation given for the "bystander effect", which is essentially diffusion of responsibility. The theory says, people don't help someone else in trouble in part because the more people are witnessing it, the less each individual feels responsible for helping. If you have 100 people standing in a crowd while someone gets attacked or robbed, the theory of diffusion of responsibility says that each person will be thinking they don't need to do anything because there are 99 other people to help, right?

Well, if that were true, you wouldn't get things like one person stopping to help another one in a crowded hall to pick up dropped items. (That's the example I've been using.)

That's what I've been trying to say. I hope that's more clear.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #97 on: October 24, 2012, 03:33:54 PM »
Okay, it sounded to me before like you were hinting it was a social fact that most people these days *do* not really give a cat's ass about someone getting raped or robbed, accidentally dropping their bag etc in front of them in a public space of some kind - and that since you didn't believe in the bystander effect as a key explanation (I don't either) then the reason would be that people really have been ingrained with a bastard attitude and won't stop to help someone who is shouting for help.

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Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #98 on: October 24, 2012, 03:51:40 PM »
I was shown this in Critical Thinking a few weeks ago:

THE BYSTANDER EFFECT

It was proved right the following week with this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-19885252

The human mind really is a strange thing. Lots of things we think would be common sense to us, aren't always to other people.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 03:56:01 PM by Starcry »

Offline Moraline

Re: Sexual Harassment in Cosplay
« Reply #99 on: October 24, 2012, 08:07:04 PM »
Disturbing and sad video.