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Author Topic: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize  (Read 1383 times)

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Offline Stattick

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2012, 08:37:15 PM »
I'm saying when the "crazies" get widespread enough to kill people around the world, on an ongoing basis, you've got to wonder what kind of religion produced them.  Any sample of humanity will have deviants and psychopaths, but with Islam it's off the friggin' chart.

I think a lot of it has to do with the crushing poverty that much of the Muslim world is facing, and the really fucked up politics that are left over from European and American colonialism. It wasn't until after WWII was over that most of the Middle East gained independence from colonial powers, and when we drew the current map of the Middle East, we went out of our way to draw the map in such a way as to leave countries in internal turmoil and external problems, to keep the Muslim world divided against itself. So, most of the Middle East has been under its own rule for less than a century, while all the world powers use the Middle East as a chessboard for proxy wars and to get rich.  In those conditions, it should be no surprise that they have a major problem with the world powers, and there is no shortage of young men with no money, future, or hope that can be turned into jihadis. The problems in the Middle East and with Islam are mostly problems that we created.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2012, 09:00:28 PM »
I think a lot of it has to do with the crushing poverty that much of the Muslim world is facing, and the really fucked up politics that are left over from European and American colonialism. It wasn't until after WWII was over that most of the Middle East gained independence from colonial powers, and when we drew the current map of the Middle East, we went out of our way to draw the map in such a way as to leave countries in internal turmoil and external problems, to keep the Muslim world divided against itself. So, most of the Middle East has been under its own rule for less than a century, while all the world powers use the Middle East as a chessboard for proxy wars and to get rich.  In those conditions, it should be no surprise that they have a major problem with the world powers, and there is no shortage of young men with no money, future, or hope that can be turned into jihadis. The problems in the Middle East and with Islam are mostly problems that we created.

Sorry, you can peddle that if you want, but I'm not buying.  I don't know why so many people are just itching to exonerate Islam no matter what it does.  You don't hear people excusing the Holocaust because economic conditions in the Weimar Republic were harsh, or the Inquisition because, well, "people just didn't know any better."  Muslim imams could start the day by dropping a hundred Christian and Jewish babies onto spikes, and liberals would still make excuses for them. 

And while you're at it, please tell me what these people did to deserve Islam's wrath...what happened to them really isn't that terribly far from the babies-on-spikes scenario I described.
http://www.villagevoice.com/2001-02-06/news/gang-rape-in-sudan/

And for the record, I still would have liked to see the Pakistani girl get the Nobel.  Might encourage that part of the world to grow the fuck up, stop making excuses, and enter at least the 20th century.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2012, 09:02:36 PM by OldSchoolGamer »

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2012, 10:03:41 PM »
Sorry, you can peddle that if you want, but I'm not buying.  I don't know why so many people are just itching to exonerate Islam no matter what it does.  You don't hear people excusing the Holocaust because economic conditions in the Weimar Republic were harsh, or the Inquisition because, well, "people just didn't know any better."  Muslim imams could start the day by dropping a hundred Christian and Jewish babies onto spikes, and liberals would still make excuses for them. 

And while you're at it, please tell me what these people did to deserve Islam's wrath...what happened to them really isn't that terribly far from the babies-on-spikes scenario I described.
http://www.villagevoice.com/2001-02-06/news/gang-rape-in-sudan/

And for the record, I still would have liked to see the Pakistani girl get the Nobel.  Might encourage that part of the world to grow the fuck up, stop making excuses, and enter at least the 20th century.

So do I condemn the Roman Catholic church for the Provosional IRA (and more radical Irish groups) bombing Protestant schools, and/or killing mixed religion couples. Or the massive amounts of fraud and molestation a bunch of priests in the faith conducted.

The conduct of a faith isn't in the measure of the most radical segment that gets the media attention. It is folks like the bus driver I did 2 shore patrol rotations with on my last cruise, or the tour guides in Dubai, Bahrain, and Thailand took me around to see stuff. Or the cab driver in Dubai who didn't charge me for a five block trip to collect a friend. Or the three Muslims I served with in A-school. Or the two guys and their families I know back home in the Carolinas or the woman who is raising her kid her in the US I know in my class.

You talk a lot about the media blitzes but you are perfectly wiling to buy into the image they are selling. I've known Muslims from Spain to Malaysia, Australia and here in the US. There are very few that dress like Bin Laden did in his ads and everyone that I've been around and talked to carries the shame of that man and his ilk on his or her shoulders. It's about as fucking fair as branding every German and Austrian with the specter of Adolf Hitler.

And how do you define the atrocities of men like Stalin..who quietly did at LEAST as much as Hitler did when it came to kililng anyone who crossed him.

Or if you want to throw out 3rd world atrocities.. which religous group do you blame for the .. FIFTY years of atrocies that have been going on in Burmha/Myamar?
« Last Edit: October 14, 2012, 10:16:20 PM by Callie Del Noire »

Offline Sabre

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2012, 06:42:25 AM »
Sorry, you can peddle that if you want, but I'm not buying.

The question then is why.  Is there some fault with the logic presented?  A gap in the theory that isn't explained?  Or is it simply answering a question you didn't want to answer.

Quote
I don't know why so many people are just itching to exonerate Islam no matter what it does.  You don't hear people excusing the Holocaust because economic conditions in the Weimar Republic were harsh, or the Inquisition because, well, "people just didn't know any better."  Muslim imams could start the day by dropping a hundred Christian and Jewish babies onto spikes, and liberals would still make excuses for them. 

Maybe because the ire in this question is built on a pile of premises: that it was Islam, its tenants, its laws, and its supposed uniqueness, that did these crimes and not the people holding the gun - that the person who shot Malala in the head had no moral agency of his own, and that behind his mask there isn't a human face but a Quran.  This is the exact same sort of asinine and shallow reasoning that your so-called liberal counterparts are using if they place blame on the consequences of white imperialism.  Only instead we're now placing blame on the consequences of Islamic fanaticism or fundamentalism.

This is all seriously off topic but in lieu of this conversation moving to a different thread I'll say this much.  An explanation is not an exoneration.  Nor an excuse.  Nor a justification.  We do explain how Hitler came to power, and how antisemitism in Germany was prevalent because of the conditions in the Weimar Republic.  We also explain the Inquisition and the societal and church reforms that created it.  These aren't excuses.  These are explanations meant to humanize and understand why a person can do the things someone else who did not grow up or experience the same hardships could.  But the crime remains criminal.  The difference, however, between this and that, is that no one but anti-nationalists or anti-Catholics decide to put blame on the concept and theory of German Nationalism or Roman Catholicism.  If a German girl in 1938 is shot in the head by fanatical Nazi party members for speaking out against the party, no one expects someone saying 'that girl stood up to the Germans' to make sense, nor find it hard to swallow that someone correcting them by saying 'don't you mean stood up to the Nazis?' is then a No true Scotsman attempt to exonerate Germans or German nationalism.  The problem is Muslim imams aren't dropping Christian and Jewish babies on spikes every morning, but people are still making excuses on why 'they're not really Muslim' based on anecdotes from a smaller percentage of Muslims in the world.

Quote
And while you're at it, please tell me what these people did to deserve Islam's wrath...what happened to them really isn't that terribly far from the babies-on-spikes scenario I described.
http://www.villagevoice.com/2001-02-06/news/gang-rape-in-sudan/

Why don't you start by telling us why we should accept the premise that these people are experiencing 'Islam's wrath' versus the more sane observation that Northern Sudanese Arabs are ethnically cleansing, raping, enslaving, and executing non-Arab blacks?  Because the North Sudanese government is a military junta that posits itself as an Islamic government?  I suppose that makes sense, and also why this same government did the same exact thing to the west Sudanese people in Darfur - killing, raping, enslaving and executing non-Arab blacks - not five years ago.

Except the Darfur region, including the people being gang raped and enslaved in the exact same fashion with the same exact perpetrators involved using the same tactics, is predominantly Muslim.

'Islam's wrath' indeed.

Quote
And for the record, I still would have liked to see the Pakistani girl get the Nobel.  Might encourage that part of the world to grow the fuck up, stop making excuses, and enter at least the 20th century.

Funny, since Pakistan already awarded her their National Youth Peace Prize last year, and renamed it in her honor after her shooting.  But I guess that's also just 'making excuses.'

Offline Tamhansen

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2012, 10:32:06 AM »
I don't know why so many people are just itching to exonerate Islam no matter what it does.  You don't hear people excusing the Holocaust because economic conditions in the Weimar Republic were harsh, or the Inquisition because, well, "people just didn't know any better."  Muslim imams could start the day by dropping a hundred Christian and Jewish babies onto spikes, and liberals would still make excuses for them. 

And while you're at it, please tell me what these people did to deserve Islam's wrath...what happened to them really isn't that terribly far from the babies-on-spikes scenario I described.
http://www.villagevoice.com/2001-02-06/news/gang-rape-in-sudan/
Actually I hear both of those a lot, but that's beside the point. I mean how many times do we really condemn what the British and french did when they colonised the area, or how the Israeli government is turning the Gaza strip into a virtual prison camp?  Basically there are monsters in any denomination. Both Hitler and Mussolini were Christians. devout Catholics even. Does that mean the holocaust was Christianity's wrath? Stalin was raised orthodox, were the Gulags also Christianity's doing? Pol Pot  was a buddhist, Mao zedong confusianist.

The main problem is people like you calling this "Islamic' it's not. Islam, although having rather violent tennets would not accept any of this. These are people that have no morals and are not following their faith. But by calling it 'islamic' you are alienating the proper Allah fearing muslims who will get a damned if we do, damned if we don't attitude.

You wanna raise your voice against these atrocities? Then thank you, I love yyou for it. But call a spade a spade and out these people for what they are. Soulless monsters, goading on thousands of conformistic peasants

And for the record, I still would have liked to see the Pakistani girl get the Nobel.  Might encourage that part of the world to grow the fuck up, stop making excuses, and enter at least the 20th century.

you do know that the twentieth century is still more than 400 years off on the Arabic calendar? :P 
Sewriously, no it wouldn't. Giving her the peace prize would solve nothing. helping and encouraging others to stand u as well. Being constructive in your critisism, respecting the fact these are people with feelings, and not just bash them with your completely unwarranted moral high ground that will help.

Until we as Americans stop our own soldiers from degrading prisoners, sexually assaulting women and girls, urinating on holy texts and using 14 year olds as target practice, we cannot take moral high ground with any one.