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Author Topic: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize  (Read 1388 times)

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Offline gaggedLouiseTopic starter

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The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« on: October 12, 2012, 04:25:14 AM »
The EU winning the Nobel peace prize?? - wow, the Norwegian Nobel committe has really lost it! Or bought into somebody's bureaucrat festive rethoric, bought it hook, line and sinker. Give me a few instances where the European Union has been an active, vital force for peace or even assisting some conflict-ridden society in a powerful, honest way in the last twenty years, please...the time when it has actually been called a union.

Awarded now, it pretty much looks like a medal of honour to the European Central Bank and to some facets of the handling of the financial/banking/recession crisis. Okay, the committee head Thorbjörn Jagland stressed some other things (Croatia and Montenegro have been accepted for membership! Hooray! *puts ten champagne bottles in the ice bowler*) but mostly he was rehashing standard EU saviour rethoric (yeah, just hearing the grand old man of the Christian Democrat party here sayting "The EU has become the most powerful peace factor for current humanity (---) we as politicians are not doing enough to explain to people just how wondrous the EU is")

This is even worse than when they awarded Obama after less than one year in office. I'm a supporter of Obama and of some sides of the European community project - as an interstate thing, though not a federalist, supra-state ambition, a "United States of Europe" - but not a blindly uncritical supporter.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 07:33:04 AM by gaggedLouise »

Online Vekseid

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2012, 04:53:29 AM »
I thought Norway wasn't part of the EU?

Sort of smacks of internal Norwegian politics getting in the way.

Offline gaggedLouiseTopic starter

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Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2012, 05:03:32 AM »
I thought Norway wasn't part of the EU?

Sort of smacks of internal Norwegian politics getting in the way.

Tell me about it. ;) And I wonder what they're thinking in Greece and Spain - or in some countries of eastern Europe. Even around here and in Norway (next door, you know) there's going to be a flood of sarcastic comment about this on the lines of "Are you ***king kidding me?" or "Are they going to get the prize money in euros or in dollars? and who, personally, is going to pocket that dough?")


Offline Luna

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Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2012, 05:24:40 AM »
Isn't the whole euro experiment, like... failing?!?...

Offline Stattick

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2012, 05:31:52 AM »
And I thought it was weird when they gave Obama the peace prize.

Offline Tamhansen

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2012, 05:38:07 AM »
No one is. As a political entity the EU cannot accept the money other than as part of their budget.

The Nobel committee might not always pick the best choice, but the choice has a proper foundation. In the last decade the European Union has tried, although not always successfully to promote the idea of peace. The EU has not only prevented war in it's own borders since it's inception at the treaty of Rome in 1957, albeit under a different name, which has made it the longest peaceful period in Western Europe since the Roman Empire, but it has also been instrumental in the due escalation of many conflicts around the world. Though they were not successful in every attempt.

Also the EU has been the biggest supporter of the world court, where countries can settle their disputes in a court of law instead of the field of battle. And it has been the most staunch supporter of the ICC which seeks to bring to justice to criminals of war.

Now, is the EU the perfect example of peace no. But as a separate entity it is doing its utter best. Unfortunately, the individual national governments are screwing things up.

Offline Hemingway

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2012, 03:41:04 PM »
I thought Norway wasn't part of the EU?

Sort of smacks of internal Norwegian politics getting in the way.

Norway is still part of the EEA, which essentially means Norway is part of the EU, is permitted to participate in the internal market of the EU and is obligated to adopt its legislation. What exactly Norway would stand to gain by awarding the peace prize to the EU is unclear to me.

To claim that this is totally unprecedented is ahistorical. The EU has, since it's very beginning, been a peace project. Europe, even today, is a volatile place. It was a volatile place at the breakup of the Soviet Union. I think the EU must get some credit for keeping Europe relatively peaceful for some 60 years, since the formation of the European Coal and Steel Community.

There may be better choices for the Peace Prize. I wouldn't really know. Is it better than when they gave it to Obama? There's absolutely no doubt about it. At that time, the Norwegian Nobel Committee was criticized for awarding the prize based on what was called an expanded definition of peace. This was also the case with the IPCC and Al Gore. I think these were seen as encouraging peace in a very vague sense. Now they've given it to an organization which has promoted peace in that very narrow sense of trying to prevent war, and they're being criticized for that as well.

I don't care very passionately about the Peace Prize, and I have no love for the EU, but I still think there's something to be said for this prize.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2012, 04:15:07 PM »
They should have given it to the brave 14 year old girl who stood up to the Muslims in Pakistan and demanded girls have the right to get an education.

http://news.yahoo.com/conversations-malala-yousafzai-girl-stood-taliban-133500248.html

Online ShadowFox89

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2012, 03:59:43 AM »
They should have given it to the brave 14 year old girl who stood up to the Muslims in Pakistan and demanded girls have the right to get an education.

http://news.yahoo.com/conversations-malala-yousafzai-girl-stood-taliban-133500248.html

 But she's Islamic! And Muslims are the new Communists!

 Yeah, they should have, but politics sucks like that.

Online Vekseid

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2012, 04:05:08 AM »
They award can't be made to the deceased.

Offline Tamhansen

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2012, 04:52:26 AM »
But she's Islamic! And Muslims are the new Communists!

 Yeah, they should have, but politics sucks like that.

I don't get that point really. About communism. Remember, even Stalin was nominated for the award on two seperate occassions.

And Vekseid is also correct. Since 1976 the prize can no longer be awarded to the deceased, unless of course they die after the decission has been made public

Online ShadowFox89

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2012, 07:16:32 AM »
 But.. she's still alive... barely, but still. Unless I missed some news in the past few hours...

Offline gaggedLouiseTopic starter

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Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2012, 07:19:35 AM »
They award can't be made to the deceased.

The prize for literature has been given to a recently dead writer once or twice, but that was long, long ago.

Offline Sabre

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2012, 07:43:21 AM »
They should have given it to the brave 14 year old girl who stood up to the Muslims in Pakistan and demanded girls have the right to get an education.

http://news.yahoo.com/conversations-malala-yousafzai-girl-stood-taliban-133500248.html

Don't you mean stood up to the Taliban?

Offline Oniya

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Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2012, 11:22:03 AM »
But.. she's still alive... barely, but still. Unless I missed some news in the past few hours...

Last I heard, she was in critical condition, but the doctors have removed the bullets from her head.  I may be wrong, but I think there's a nomination deadline for each year's Nobel Prize - if so, she might have missed qualifying, just due to the recency of the event.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2012, 04:19:07 PM »
Last I heard, she was in critical condition, but the doctors have removed the bullets from her head.  I may be wrong, but I think there's a nomination deadline for each year's Nobel Prize - if so, she might have missed qualifying, just due to the recency of the event.

F-ing cowards with guns. Shooting a 13 year old for having a spine.

Offline yobo

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2012, 04:52:43 PM »
I have to admit I didn't see this one coming, and I'm still not sure that it was a good decision to give to the EU, especially the timing with the crisis makes it appear a tad political. I haven't gotten around to read the speech or anything else to see how they argued for EU winning the prize, just that they had been working towards a peaceful Europe for the last six decades on the radio.

That being said, one of the reasons the forerunner for the EU of today was founded was to make a new big war in Europe as unlikely as possible. And if we look at the six decades before its foundation, compared to the six after, Europe has been a lot more peaceful (if this is EU's credit or not is another discussion). And as Hemingway points out, EU has been a peace project since the beginning.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2012, 06:58:01 PM »
Don't you mean stood up to the Taliban?

"No true Muslim..."

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2012, 07:10:18 PM »
Maybe the Pakistani girl didn't get in under the wire, but I'd still like to see the prize go to something other than a big, bloated bureaucracy.  Governments are doing something between "little" and "diddly-squat" to solve the world's problems these days.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2012, 07:11:33 PM »
"No true Muslim..."

What? Are you infering that a girl who clearly understood the principals of behind the Pillars of Faith wasn't a true and faithful follower of Islam? Just because she didn't take the outlooks that some thugs with guns ascribed to elements that were added after the Koran was already established?

Or were you being snarky to the Taliban's claim to being 'true men of faith'? (I notice few of the fanatics with guns actually BUILD anything after they win.. they like to shoot folks too much)

Online Vekseid

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2012, 10:59:49 PM »
"No true Muslim..."

Our entire problem with extremists is no one stands up to them. One girl does, gets shot for her efforts, and you mock her sacrifice with crap like this.

It isn't appreciated.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2012, 11:13:53 PM »
Our entire problem with extremists is no one stands up to them. One girl does, gets shot for her efforts, and you mock her sacrifice with crap like this.

It isn't appreciated.

Oh, I wasn't mocking the girl.  I wouldn't have lamented her not getting a Nobel Prize if that had been my intention.  She deserved the Nobel Peace Prize and a dozen other awards too.

No, I'm mocking those who always pull a "no true Scotsman" whenever one of Islam's many many antisocial and misogynistic acts are pointed out.  The Muslims who shoot a young girl in the face aren't real Muslims.  The Muslim who crash airplanes into buildings aren't "real" Muslims.  The Muslims who gang-rape African women in southern Sudan and break their legs while mocking them for having no God aren't "true" Muslims.  The alphabet soup of terrorist groups the world over aren't "true" Muslims.  The Muslims killing people and blowing things up in (fill in the blank with any one of dozens of countries on three continents) aren't "true" Muslims.  Etc., etc., etc.

Offline Stattick

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2012, 11:32:43 PM »
Oh, I wasn't mocking the girl.  I wouldn't have lamented her not getting a Nobel Prize if that had been my intention.  She deserved the Nobel Peace Prize and a dozen other awards too.

No, I'm mocking those who always pull a "no true Scotsman" whenever one of Islam's many many antisocial and misogynistic acts are pointed out.  The Muslims who shoot a young girl in the face aren't real Muslims.  The Muslim who crash airplanes into buildings aren't "real" Muslims.  The Muslims who gang-rape African women in southern Sudan and break their legs while mocking them for having no God aren't "true" Muslims.  The alphabet soup of terrorist groups the world over aren't "true" Muslims.  The Muslims killing people and blowing things up in (fill in the blank with any one of dozens of countries on three continents) aren't "true" Muslims.  Etc., etc., etc.

What about Christians? What about the Christian Identity sects that lynch people of color, and burn black churches? Are you saying that all Christians everywhere are responsible for the actions of a few crazies?

Offline Sabre

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2012, 11:37:31 PM »
No one has pulled a 'No true Scotsman' here.  If there is an example here, it's as follows:

A: She stood up to the Muslims in Pakistan.
B: Most people including the girl in Pakistan are Muslim, who have widely denounced the act.
C: She stood up to the true Muslims in Pakistan.

Calling the Taliban the Taliban is not a fallacy.  This is what they are.  This is what they call themselves, Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan.

Quote
Oh, I wasn't mocking the girl.
...
No, I'm mocking those who always pull a "no true Scotsman" whenever one of Islam's many many antisocial and misogynistic acts are pointed out.

Yet sadly you did as Malala was in fact one of these people who don't accept what the Taliban did as Islam.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: The EU awarded the Nobel peace prize
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2012, 10:11:42 AM »
What about Christians? What about the Christian Identity sects that lynch people of color, and burn black churches? Are you saying that all Christians everywhere are responsible for the actions of a few crazies?

I'm saying when the "crazies" get widespread enough to kill people around the world, on an ongoing basis, you've got to wonder what kind of religion produced them.  Any sample of humanity will have deviants and psychopaths, but with Islam it's off the friggin' chart.