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Author Topic: Fear of Loss?  (Read 495 times)

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Offline Ironwolf85Topic starter

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Fear of Loss?
« on: October 11, 2012, 01:45:01 PM »
I was raised in an era of post 9/11 where the fear of terrorisim was occasionally so powerful I could taste it.

I have been wondering somthing, and I put it to some older E-residents.

I'm wondering if the reason the republicans are going so crazy these last four years (from right wing to ultra-nationalist far right) is the older generation of baby boomer politicans being afraid of loosing their power to my, and my sister's generations along with those of my baby nephew.

I find this a disturbing thought, but I aksed myself a long time ago "Why don't I see any people under 30 in support of the republican party who aren't either paid actors on an Ad, or shamed into going along with the rest of their family. (the image of an entire family holding a "we support romney" sign was in a republican news letter in NH, the older folks were smiling, the kids were kinda wondering what was going on, and the teens were kind of looking away as if humilated)

Offline Tamhansen

Re: Fear of Loss?
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2012, 01:48:41 PM »
actually i know quite a lot of truly believing young republicans, unfortunately they are not fans of Romney.

Another thing to consider. The right wing is for the haves, while the left is for the have nots. Very few under 30's are haves.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Fear of Loss?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2012, 02:36:43 PM »
It is there. Not just the unde 30s either. One of the things I saw when my brother stepped up to run for offices was the old timers (60+) were worried about the 40isg lawyer running for Govenor rather than the local seats they had pushed him to. 

He was smart, successful and charismatic and did a LOT on the local/state and national level (Party Rep, White House Inaugural invites, ect) but hadn't stepped into THEIR pool till he ran. Then he was an'outsider' and 'upstart' and 'carpetbagger'. (Kind of hard to justify the last with a family heritage in the region that goes back to the early 1700s but they called him one)

Offline Ironwolf85Topic starter

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Re: Fear of Loss?
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2012, 03:31:26 PM »
So it's more of an old guard thing then?
See I would likely be a republican but I dislike romney, don't hate the prez, think those public morality laws are bullshit, and

I mean I don't care what a woman does with her body, I just don't want to pay for it unless it's lifesaving.

I think there's a real disconnect...

Offline Cyrano Johnson

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Re: Fear of Loss?
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2012, 05:33:01 PM »
The baby boomer generation stands accused of "pulling up the ladder behind it" in many countries, and there may be something to that (though I rather think the bigger problem isn't any particular generation, but the multi-generational greed of the wealthy few who simply don't know when to quit).

I think what's going on with the American conservative movement is that a long-term alliance of convenience between a faction of the wealthy and a (mostly white) faction of the middle and working class is starting to spin out of control. The original tactic this movement used to employ was that the wealthy patrons would validate (and exploit) the fears and resentments of people who had felt threatened or left behind by the social upheavals of the Sixties (anti-racism, women's lib, anti-war movements, free love and so on), and those clients would in turn reward them with votes (which they could use to support an agenda of self-enrichment).

This worked in part by the use of dog-whistle politics by the patrons -- they worked out that you couldn't actually say "we won't let the government steal your hard-earned money and give it to lazy n*****s" but that you could repackage that message as "small government" and "states' rights" and be tacitly understood -- and in part by portraying the whole exercise as comfortably centrist and mainstream and concerned with general prosperity. But we've reached the point where the latter fiction has collapsed into open class warfare, and where the dog-whistle politics is breaking down as either people forget how it was supposed to work or (more often) forget the need for it. It's harder and harder to hide that a huge part of the conservative client-base has grown totally out of touch with the rest of North American society over the past few decades, especially that part of it that's been home-schooled and bible-colleged and raised in a parallel universe of conservative media and think-tanks.

That's the way it seems to me, anyway.

Offline Vekseid

Re: Fear of Loss?
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2012, 05:59:28 PM »
actually i know quite a lot of truly believing young republicans, unfortunately they are not fans of Romney.

Another thing to consider. The right wing is for the haves, while the left is for the have nots. Very few under 30's are haves.

Proposals like Fairtax and such go back to the Nixon administration... they're very good for the ultra poor. Free money each year, you don't have to work at all if you know what you are doing!

It's the middle class that gets hollowed out.

Offline Cyrano Johnson

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Re: Fear of Loss?
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2012, 06:13:30 PM »
Proposals like Fairtax and such go back to the Nixon administration... they're very good for the ultra poor. Free money each year, you don't have to work at all if you know what you are doing!

I thought FairTax was a proposal for a flat tax on goods and services? Don't see how would that benefit the ultra poor - flat taxes usually benefit the wealthy, whose income can better absorb the tax amount.

Offline Vekseid

Re: Fear of Loss?
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2012, 06:15:39 PM »
I thought FairTax was a proposal for a flat tax on goods and services? Don't see how would that benefit the ultra poor - flat taxes usually benefit the wealthy, whose income can better absorb the tax amount.

And sales taxes even more so, as the wealthy spend less. However, to 'offset' this, everyone in the country gets an annual stipend - which is pretty significant.

Offline Serephino

Re: Fear of Loss?
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2012, 06:39:35 PM »
It was mentioned in another thread that scare tactics just don't work as well on us younger generations.  During the Cold War Republicans successfully made everyone afraid of Russian Communists.  When the Cold War ended, around the time I was born, there was nothing to fear.  Then they had everyone distracted by greed, but that isn't working anymore either.  Now they need a new boogeyman, and they're using Muslim Extremists.  Of course, that isn't going to work forever. 

Fear is a very powerful motivator.  I think the wealthy are afraid that their wealth is going to be taken away, which I don't think is really true.  The GOP is just playing whoever they can to gain and keep power it seems.  Thing is, if you don't have wealth that you're told the Democrats want to steal from you through crushing taxes, and you don't understand why Socialist is such a dirty word because you're too young to remember the 'Red Scare', then you're a lot harder for them to motivate through fear.  They're still trying with Iraq and Afghanistan, but like Vietnam, we the people are just getting really tired of that shit.  My Civics teacher was right.  As the American death toll rises and the years drag on people are saying enough is enough.     

Offline Ironwolf85Topic starter

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Re: Fear of Loss?
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2012, 11:17:16 PM »
This is pretty informitive...
Another thing I've seen being passed around among the older gents is the idea of some writer who wrote about the fall of rome, basicly saying that in wealthy democratic socities people get lazy and start voting themselves privilges, and this leads to the inevitible decline.

Thing was, the Roman Republic didn't start decaying untill Ceaser came to power, maybe the cracks appeared when Sulla marched into the senate and set himself up as dictator prior.
Once Agustus locked the imperial system in place the senate was basicly castrated, with emperor playing what I call "War & Glory" politics.
After agustus it seemed to stagnate to me, on average becoming either less capable or more psychotic untill the imperial line died with nero.
After that it was a long democratic decline. That "people voted themselves more priviliges till it collpased" seems seriously revisionist/ historical politics to me.

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Re: Fear of Loss?
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2012, 12:03:59 AM »
Thing was, the Roman Republic didn't start decaying untill Ceaser came to power, maybe the cracks appeared when Sulla marched into the senate and set himself up as dictator prior.
Once Agustus locked the imperial system in place the senate was basicly castrated, with emperor playing what I call "War & Glory" politics.
After agustus it seemed to stagnate to me, on average becoming either less capable or more psychotic untill the imperial line died with nero.
After that it was a long democratic decline. That "people voted themselves more priviliges till it collpased" seems seriously revisionist/ historical politics to me.

The lead piping couldn't have helped either.

Online Skynet

Re: Fear of Loss?
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2012, 01:35:09 PM »
Certain elements of the Republican leadership are afraid of change.  And America is changing.  In 2050, whites will be a minority.  Pre-marital sex and LGBT people are becoming increasingly accepted in society.  And while atheists and Muslims are still distrusted and feared, they're acknowledged in society (as opposed to the past, where it was assumed everyone was Christian).  Older generations are afraid for their own future (for Social Security and Medicare) an their children's.  With societal change comes fear.

The extreme elements of the GOP capitalize on this, and lash out at enemies where there are none.  The Birthers have to invent a sinister story of Obama's origins in order to attack him.  The Family Research Council accuses homosexuals of rape, pedophilia, and undermining Christianity.  These factions of conservatives are tilting at windmills, but unlike Don Quixote they way too much credibility among a fearful populace.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2012, 01:42:12 PM by Skynet »

Offline Ironwolf85Topic starter

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Re: Fear of Loss?
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2012, 04:24:17 PM »
interisting idea Skynet, and probably true on many levels. Persionally I think things are becoming more open, and as I said, those of my generation and those following are less likely to be motivated by Boogymen.
I'm pretty sure if democrats waved around a big busness boogyman we'd still be more apt to call a stick a stick and a turd a turd.
There's also less control over media these days which I think allows people to be more moderate by being explosed to other viewpoints. Unlike the major TV stations where opinions and facts are fed to viewers, nowadays we can look things up with the click of a mouse.

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Re: Fear of Loss?
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2012, 04:38:43 PM »
I say this with the utmost discretion and do not intend to offend, but the primary demographics the fearmongerers appeal to are willfully ignorant.  Information on the Internet's a definite plus, and many blogs and websites are reporting on stuff the cable outlets aren't (Occupy Wall Street is a great example).  Unfortunately, many propaganda networks masquerade as news stations both offline and online.  So information on the Internet is not very helpful to the uninformed when they can't tell the difference between the two and see conflicting views.

Offline Ironwolf85Topic starter

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Re: Fear of Loss?
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2012, 05:09:39 PM »
sadly I can't think of a way to simply demonstrate that diffrence without the person hating me