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Author Topic: Slang as accepted language use.  (Read 2330 times)

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Offline Oniya

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Re: Slang as accepted language use.
« Reply #50 on: November 09, 2012, 10:58:04 PM »
College is expensive - often prohibitively so, as well as time consuming, and college education is generally more than is necessary to exist from day to day.  Literacy classes, as I understand here in the states, are offered at low or no cost, frequently on a flexible schedule that doesn't impact the work schedule.

If one of the reasons that they aren't getting the job is because they can't speak the language, it only makes sense that learning the language would eliminate that particular hurdle.  Even if that particular employer is discriminating against them, knowing the language would help in so many other dealings on a day-to-day basis.

Offline Caehlim

Re: Slang as accepted language use.
« Reply #51 on: November 09, 2012, 11:14:45 PM »
College is expensive - often prohibitively so, as well as time consuming, and college education is generally more than is necessary to exist from day to day.  Literacy classes, as I understand here in the states, are offered at low or no cost, frequently on a flexible schedule that doesn't impact the work schedule.

That's true, although remember that I'm not talking about its actual cost so much as its perceived cost/benefit analysis and we have to include psychological factors here. What about the cost to your self-identity, pride and community spirit? What about being perceived as a sell-out by your friends?

Also if your language skills force you into a lower paying job, you may be working double-shifts to make enough money making it harder to attend these classes. You may know friends who took one of those classes and still can't find a job. You may feel discouraged by a lot of your own negative experiences with the job market and not want to continue trying.

I could speculate all day, but ultimately I think the people in government in Rotterdam will need to consult with some qualified sociologists who can study the problem locally and see exactly where the breakdown is happening.

Quote
If one of the reasons that they aren't getting the job is because they can't speak the language, it only makes sense that learning the language would eliminate that particular hurdle.

Then these people are either very stupid and lazy, or know something we don't because it seems en masse they are refusing an apparently perfect solution to their problem.

Personally, I don't suspect that it's stupidity or laziness (well, not for everyone. Maybe for some of the people that's the problem but that's harder to fix).

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Even if that particular employer is discriminating against them, knowing the language would help in so many other dealings on a day-to-day basis.

I don't think that's entirely true and that's perhaps part of the problem. If they are living in small isolated and insular communities with their own jobs, media, radio stations and dating circuits, they may go entire days without speaking formal dutch. Their own pidgin language sounds close enough to dutch that they can probably manage those conversations already with probably just some minor frustrations and misunderstandings.

The self-supporting community is probably very helpful on a day to day basis, but may discourage looking outside the community in the long-run.

Offline Cyrano Johnson

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Re: Slang as accepted language use.
« Reply #52 on: November 10, 2012, 12:55:51 AM »
Then these people are either very stupid and lazy, or know something we don't because it seems en masse they are refusing an apparently perfect solution to their problem.

Quite. It could even be that being one of the working poor is time-consuming and does not leave infinite amounts of free time for taking language courses. But I'm just spitballing here; obviously the real and credible authorities should be white people speculating about the lives of nonwhite immigrants at second hand.

Offline Funguy81

Re: Slang as accepted language use.
« Reply #53 on: November 10, 2012, 07:00:43 PM »
Just putting in my two cents. but your an "outsider"  trying to open a business within that local community it would be best that you speak the language of the local populace. Put up signs of the language the local population can read and understand so you can serve them better. That to me is common sense that you have to learn the culture and the language of that area. I live in a hispanic heavy area in Orlando, and there is a supermarket that offers hispanic ethnic foods, and their signs are in both english and spanish. That is reaching out to the people that your trying to serve. Its not a requirement, but if you want a successful business in that area its a service that should to be provided.

Now on the other hand unless you plan to live the rest of your life in that small area of the world, its common sense you need to learn the official language of the country. Employers want to know if they hire someone, that person can communicate with them without trouble, or understand and complete the forms the company utilizes. Its a skill just like any other, and if the potential employee does not have it he will not be hired.

Yes, that even includes a job like being a janitor. When I was in high school, the janitor in charge of the cleaning crew could not read or write, yet he was the one that filled out the forms to order in cleaning supplies every week. He did this by memorizing the "symbols" for each item, and wrote them down on the requisition forms.  I don't know how he learned it, but he gone by with it for years. When the school board upgraded the requisition forms to a new format, he could not figure it out. I can't remember if the school fired him or just demoted him, but I do know that he was replaced by someone who could read and write.

Offline sirtree

Re: Slang as accepted language use.
« Reply #54 on: November 12, 2012, 12:46:52 PM »
I feel like if I tried to write a application in middle English I would fail to get said job it is simply a fact. Or if I send in a letter in chat speck well that would not go over well. When you do business or work you dress up in cloth that suits you job consider language to follow the same idea. Writing for fun or day to day use is a different matter all together.
(typed in iPad so forgive lack of fancy comma pauses)
« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 12:48:55 PM by sirtree »