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Author Topic: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions  (Read 8619 times)

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Offline Hunter

Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #50 on: May 21, 2008, 04:57:44 PM »
1.  My uterus can't shoot you dead.

2.  Don't be melodramatic... no one is trying to take your guns.

1. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.  :P

2. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!   You have no idea, then.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #51 on: May 21, 2008, 05:12:05 PM »
Whoooa... I make a comment last night and the conversation runs away for two more pages after bed!

Blackrose, I'm not sure I entirely follow the reasoning of the ward-of-the-government ... thing ... um. *feels like an idiot* *realises there's a cranky anti-idiot Panda around and flees before he sees her*

All men should absolutely not be circumcised. Uncircumcised gentlemen are a delight to give head to ... assuming they've been taught to clean things properly. Much like us women need to be taught.

And ... that's all I have to say about that. *coughs*

Offline Moondazed

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Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #52 on: May 21, 2008, 05:12:25 PM »
Please forgive my obvious ignorance... would you care to start a new thread (and link it here) to enlighten me?

Offline Moondazed

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Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #53 on: May 21, 2008, 05:13:19 PM »
*nodding emphatically at Trieste, smiling happily*

Offline MadPanda

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Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #54 on: May 21, 2008, 05:14:28 PM »
Blackrose, I'm not sure I entirely follow the reasoning of the ward-of-the-government ... thing ... um. *feels like an idiot* *realises there's a cranky anti-idiot Panda around and flees before he sees her*

Not following a line of argument does not make you an idiot.  Especially not if I'm the one making the argument, and I've forgotten to mention a key point or five (which happens far, far too often).

Pretending to follow the line of argument without asking for clarification, on the other hand...

Offline Hunter

Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #55 on: May 21, 2008, 05:15:24 PM »
I'm pro-choice, but also pro - doing all that's possible so that women wouldn't need to decide to do an abortion.
That includes:
 - contraception
 - sexual education
 - having good orphanages
 - encouraging adoption of orphans
 - help for poor families
 - preventing home violence
 - changing negative attitudes towards single mothers
 - good schools and childcare facilities available
 - efficient laws towards alimony
 - fighting rape
All those things can prevent an unwanted pregnancy or encourage the pregnant person not to abort.

And...I agree that all those things are definitely necessary.  But....I'm not going to say anything else about the subject.  Enough people think I'm a dumbass moron because of my political views without adding to it.

Offline Moondazed

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Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #56 on: May 21, 2008, 05:17:01 PM »
Personally, I don't find anyone who can legitimately cite why they believe what they do to be a dumbass moron.  Part of discourse is keeping your emotions out of the debate, Hunter.

Offline Moondazed

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Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #57 on: May 21, 2008, 05:17:49 PM »
Hold on... you believe in sexual education?  Most conservatives don't, if I recall correctly.

Offline ShrowdedPoet

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Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #58 on: May 22, 2008, 09:47:25 AM »
On the matter of idiocy...

If you've studied the matter, and thought about it both outside an echo chamber and away from groupthink, faced the long and short term consequences of your decision, and are willing to shoulder the burden of those consequences...then you're not an idiot.

Needless to say, out in my neck of the woods (and everywhere else, too) I hear a lot of idiots--by which I mean folks who will insist that it's all 'A' or 'Not-A' but who won't walk a mile in someone else's moccasins, nor consider the costs of their almighty opinion.

Case in point: brother of a friend, staunchly pro-life.  Won't have kids.  Won't adopt kids.  Doesn't want to consider rape, incest, or medical exemptions 'because it's denying the child a chance'.  Refuses to let his tax dollars fund, say, prenatal care for underprivileged mothers...let alone education.

He's an idiot.

Credit where it's due: his wife is a very nice woman who more than makes up for his loud-mouthing by her actions...and she is not an idiot.

I can definitely agree with you there.  Sometimes I'm under the impression that people just DON'T think anymore, and then someone walks up to me and asks me an out and out stupid question or says something utterly unintelligent and I KNOW that most people just don't think anymore.  They're running around with smoothies for brains.

Offline ShrowdedPoet

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Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #59 on: May 22, 2008, 09:52:18 AM »
Hold on... you believe in sexual education?  Most conservatives don't, if I recall correctly.

lol, I don't know about that, probably true though.

This very lovely lady who was married and VERY pregnant with her second child gave a speach in my speach class about sex education.  It was BEAUTIFUL!  So much so that it made me cry!

Offline ShrowdedPoet

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Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #60 on: May 22, 2008, 09:59:19 AM »
*is now confused*  That really didn't make much sence. . .typos screw things up royally. . .

Offline Moondazed

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Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #61 on: May 22, 2008, 11:22:52 AM »
Personally, I don't find anyone who can legitimately cite why they believe what they do to be a dumbass moron.  Part of discourse is keeping your emotions out of the debate, Hunter.

Let me rephrase... if someone can legitimately cite why they believe what they believe, I don't see them as a dumbass moron, I see them as someone with a different opinion than mine.  Someone who doesn't bother knowing WHY they believe what they believe and just spouts bs falls into the lemming category, which is the next door neighbor of the dumbass moron category ;)  Then there's the category of people who base their beliefs on selective facts instead of all of the available information... damn, this is getting complicated! :P

Offline ShrowdedPoet

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Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #62 on: May 22, 2008, 11:25:23 AM »
So mere-beleif is the lemming category?
« Last Edit: May 22, 2008, 11:26:30 AM by ShrowdedPoet »

Offline MadPanda

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Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #63 on: May 22, 2008, 11:31:18 AM »
(responding to Moondazed)

An important distinction!...which reminds me.  I very definitely failed to mention the irritant which prompted my initial outburst and thus gave some folks the understandable but incorrect notion that I was being inflammatory:

In my opinion, judging by the rhetoric with which they justified the decision, the politicians who enacted the bans were being idiots.

But that way also lies a Mark Twainism.  These are the same general class of folks who pass laws making it illegal to fish from the back of a camel in the Boise River, or get a fish drunk in Oklahoma, or prohibit lions from roaming loose in the streets of Cleveland.

Offline Moondazed

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Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #64 on: May 22, 2008, 11:35:05 AM »
Belief that isn't based in actual knowledge is called blind faith, and yes, in my book that's lemming behavior.  Note that I'm not saying that scientific evidence is required to keep one from being a lemming, since there is no verifiable scientific evidence of a Divine force, yet I've had personal experiences that lead me to believe the things that I do.  However, if there is scientific evidence to be factored into the overall picture and one chooses to ignore it, they've just stepped into the lemming category.  Let me state clearly and without equivocation that the above is IN MY OPINION, your mileage may vary.  There are certainly people who don't respect my belief in the Divine because there's no scientific evidence to support it, which is their prerogative.  That's one of the perks of living in a country where we're freely allowed to express our beliefs whether they're in line with 'accepted standard' or not ;)

Offline ShrowdedPoet

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Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #65 on: May 22, 2008, 11:36:43 AM »
*bumps you*  stop being so uptight about possible flamation. . .

Offline Moondazed

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Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #66 on: May 22, 2008, 11:38:31 AM »
I prefer to think of it as being clear :)  Lack of caution in that department has caused a fair bit of trouble in the past.

Offline ShrowdedPoet

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Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #67 on: May 22, 2008, 11:39:45 AM »
Yeah. . .ok, I guess. . .*pouts*

Offline robitusinz

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Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #68 on: May 22, 2008, 02:48:33 PM »
I am pregnant now for the second time and only 7 weeks along.

Man, my baby's mama has pumped out two mini-me's, and they've made me even MORE pro-choice.

Caring for kids is a huge, huge, FUCKING HUGE undertaking.  Frankly, anyone who even THINKS about having an abortion, should just go ahead and do it.  If there's even an iota of doubt about whether you really want to see the kid alive or not, you just don't have what it takes to be a parent (no, no, I don't give a shit about your personal opinion, or your personal testimony on how you came 'this close' and are happy you didn't...)

We really don't need any more future convicts being shitted out, nor news stories about wack jobs finding new ways to upstage each other in the race to discover the most fucking insane ways of killing their kids.

Quote
Because, the little kid can fight back but that poor unborn baby cannot. 

That's exactly why you gotta hit em while they're still in the factory.  I'm still regretting teaching my boogers to talk.

Offline ShrowdedPoet

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Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #69 on: May 22, 2008, 03:09:24 PM »
I'm going to pretend that I did not just read that.

Offline Greenthorn

Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #70 on: May 22, 2008, 03:10:33 PM »
*reaches up and grabs Rob before he gets in trouble*

Now, now..everyone is entitled to their opinion here..but let's be nice with the delivery (not just you Rob)

Offline robitusinz

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Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #71 on: May 22, 2008, 03:59:36 PM »
Hey, my delivery's all I've got.

And the point I was trying to make is that it's very difficult to properly raise children.  After experiencing it firsthand, and being as responsible a parent as humanly possible, I would definitely rather someone abort their "fetus" rather than take on the "burden" of raising a child they never wanted.

I think it's funny how all the Pro-Lifers choose to circle abortion clinics and berate the people who work there, when the better show of protest would be for them to line up in front of an orphanage and adopt all of the children there.  What would Jesus do indeed.

Offline Sherona

Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #72 on: May 22, 2008, 04:06:05 PM »

I think it's funny how all the Pro-Lifers choose to circle abortion clinics and berate the people who work there, when the better show of protest would be for them to line up in front of an orphanage and adopt all of the children there.  What would Jesus do indeed.

*grins* Not defending the protests (though I feel as long as they are peacable then they have every right to protest all they want.) Nor taking the stance of Pro-life (did some research and they call themselves pro-life rather then anti-choice because most do ot feel that choice is being fair to the unborn baby who does not get a voice/choice..anywho just another side of the argument)

But I do wonder how that would show of protest? Taking on more children that they themselves might not be able to raise? And I happen to know for a fact (after being with real life friedns trying hard to adopt a baby-baby) that infants are in high demand for adoptions...so people who do not want babies that hey are carrying could give them up for adoption without worry that they will sit in an orphanage forever and a day. Its the older oens that sadly go unadopted..

Again not defending or what not, just wondering how this would be a better protest.

Offline robitusinz

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Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #73 on: May 22, 2008, 04:23:23 PM »
*grins* Not defending the protests (though I feel as long as they are peacable then they have every right to protest all they want.) Nor taking the stance of Pro-life (did some research and they call themselves pro-life rather then anti-choice because most do ot feel that choice is being fair to the unborn baby who does not get a voice/choice..anywho just another side of the argument)

But I do wonder how that would show of protest? Taking on more children that they themselves might not be able to raise? And I happen to know for a fact (after being with real life friedns trying hard to adopt a baby-baby) that infants are in high demand for adoptions...so people who do not want babies that hey are carrying could give them up for adoption without worry that they will sit in an orphanage forever and a day. Its the older oens that sadly go unadopted..

Again not defending or what not, just wondering how this would be a better protest.

Because unless you offer a solution, you have no business criticizing others.

Unless you're willing to pick up the tab on the unborn kid, shut the fuck up.

I wish I could be Pro-Life...in fact, I'm completely for life...however, I live on the planet Earth, where it takes a looooooot of money to keep a kid living decently, and unless your baby ends up being a child actor, the rate of return is shit.

Where are the pro-lifers when that 16 year old girl does "the right thing" and keeps her kid, then basically throws away any chance of having some sort of career?  Great, like we need another waitress in this country.

Or, where are the pro-lifers when there's a 4 year old kid trapped nightly in a doggie kennel while the mom is having her douchebag boyfriend ass-fuck her prior to smoking a few rocks of crack?

Frankly, if I were anywhere near Pro-Life, my stance would be that anyone who has an abortion should also be voluntarily sterilized...."Fool me once, shame on me...but you ain't fooling me twice!"  Just like we spay and neuter our dogs and cats, we should do the same to people who can't be responsible with their dingalings.

All I'm talking about here is responsibility.  Abortion is an issue where NO ONE is right.  The aborters should've been more responsible at the beginning.  The pro-lifers just need to shut the fuck up because they're not willing to take responsibility after the fact.  The only "right" in the entire thing is that the government should have no say whatsoever in whether or not abortion is legal.

Offline ShrowdedPoet

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Re: Virginia strikes down ban on late-term abortions
« Reply #74 on: May 22, 2008, 06:52:14 PM »
Hey, my delivery's all I've got.

And the point I was trying to make is that it's very difficult to properly raise children.  After experiencing it firsthand, and being as responsible a parent as humanly possible, I would definitely rather someone abort their "fetus" rather than take on the "burden" of raising a child they never wanted.

I think it's funny how all the Pro-Lifers choose to circle abortion clinics and berate the people who work there, when the better show of protest would be for them to line up in front of an orphanage and adopt all of the children there.  What would Jesus do indeed.

I have kids too.  And if you don't want it put it up for adoption.  Not all pro-lifers are christians either.  I myself am not christian, I just believe in the sanctity of life.  I would also not protest at an abortion clinic and attack the workers and women going in, that's not the way to win.  No flaming please!  I could not help but post a reply to this one, the first one I could ignore but not this one.