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Author Topic: Any Conservatives on E?  (Read 4254 times)

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Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #75 on: October 05, 2012, 11:49:14 PM »
So where is the sliding bar that moves Mitt's head around on the conservative quandrants according to his supporters and the polls?

Offline Serephino

Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #76 on: October 05, 2012, 11:53:32 PM »
Somehow I don't think Mitt Romney and the Tea Party fit on that chart.  They're off on Mars somewhere.   

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #77 on: October 05, 2012, 11:56:33 PM »
Somehow I don't think Mitt Romney and the Tea Party fit on that chart.  They're off on Mars somewhere.   


As a group..no.. (that would be more of a 'spot' on the right lower line.. but I have to wonder about individuals within the Tea party. The spread seems.. fairly good from what I'd see in past actions. I think the 'gipper' was a bit more centrist BUT it's hard to judge without a scaling element in place.

Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #78 on: October 06, 2012, 12:28:08 AM »
my father just watched Hanity... and he's a bit... oh I'm a just say it, he's a dumbass.
for example
1."our economy has been going downhill ever since 2008, EXACTLY when we elected HIM into office."
2."the president is weak, and incapable of doing anything! he is helpless and spineless!"

Me to the TV screen under my breath:
1. 2003 minimum, it was just inflated by that the properity bubble, the bubble burst, and now we're cleaning up the mess.
2. You mean except when he's "taking away your civil liberties, and enslaving your children with healthcare" right?


I wish fox network would just dissapear so some real conservatives can get on TV, and not pundets. my dad thinks "because the liberal media is watching them, they must be honest"
I don't buy into the "everything but fox is liberal media" I think media is just media and is concerned with ratings. But because fox monopolizes the conservitive side no other group can compete, so if they can't play to the conservitive demographic, they'll play to the liberal one.

Edit: (spelling corrections) also there is some media that is stupid liberal, Micheal Moore for example.I think it's just that they don't have the dominating influence that FOX does. could you imagine Moore controling 25% of the US media market?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2012, 12:39:33 AM by Ironwolf85 »

Offline Mr Self DestructTopic starter

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Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #79 on: October 06, 2012, 12:39:07 AM »
So you're saying that Libertarians aren't conservatives?


What's your definition of conservative then?

Conservative: a political or theological orientation advocating the preservation of the best in society and opposing radical changes.

As for my own personal views, I don't give a damn if you're gay or straight or transsexual or what have you.  That isn't what this is about.

I don't give a good God damn if you're the first black President.  I have lots of black friends, and quite a few of them hate Obama's policies.

The point of this thread is to bring together like-minded conservatives who hate what this government is doing to our country.  The Constitution is being trampled on and side stepped in alarming ways.  This government has added over six trillion dollars in debt that bankrupts our country for years to come.  My son's chances at college and a good job are bogged down extremely because of that.  And anyone who can willingly want the cause of this debt to have another four years to put us even further in the hole is fundamentally flawed.

I'm also alarmed at how this government is trying to tell me how to live my life.  Michelle Obama's take over of school lunches is making our kids so hungry they can't concentrate in class.  We're being told that we need to help them adjust to the new menus by serving healthier foods.  We're being told what is good for us and what is bad and that's not the America I was raised to respect and love.  Our freedoms are slowly, but surely, being taken away, one at a time, and what's worse?  Those who have been fooled by the Obama doctrine into thinking this is actually good for us.

Well not me.  I'm standing up against it.  I'm putting my foot down and calling for those who are tired of being pushed around by the government.  Enough is enough.  We are the Paul and Paulette Reveres of our time.  It's time to warn others and get this foolishness stopped before our country goes over the cliff and cannot be brought back to the glory it once was.

So there.  Those are my views.  Take them as you will, or don't.  But remember that while we conservatives our the minority on this site, we're being attacked with the same viciousness and hatred that those in the 'sexual and gender minority' are in the real world.  And I've heard more than once in this thread about how wrong that is.

Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #80 on: October 06, 2012, 12:52:56 AM »
Conservative: a political or theological orientation advocating the preservation of the best in society and opposing radical changes.

As for my own personal views, I don't give a damn if you're gay or straight or transsexual or what have you.  That isn't what this is about.

I don't give a good God damn if you're the first black President.  I have lots of black friends, and quite a few of them hate Obama's policies.

The point of this thread is to bring together like-minded conservatives who hate what this government is doing to our country.  The Constitution is being trampled on and side stepped in alarming ways.  This government has added over six trillion dollars in debt that bankrupts our country for years to come.  My son's chances at college and a good job are bogged down extremely because of that.  And anyone who can willingly want the cause of this debt to have another four years to put us even further in the hole is fundamentally flawed.

I'm also alarmed at how this government is trying to tell me how to live my life.  Michelle Obama's take over of school lunches is making our kids so hungry they can't concentrate in class.  We're being told that we need to help them adjust to the new menus by serving healthier foods.  We're being told what is good for us and what is bad and that's not the America I was raised to respect and love.  Our freedoms are slowly, but surely, being taken away, one at a time, and what's worse?  Those who have been fooled by the Obama doctrine into thinking this is actually good for us.

Well not me.  I'm standing up against it.  I'm putting my foot down and calling for those who are tired of being pushed around by the government.  Enough is enough.  We are the Paul and Paulette Reveres of our time.  It's time to warn others and get this foolishness stopped before our country goes over the cliff and cannot be brought back to the glory it once was.

So there.  Those are my views.  Take them as you will, or don't.  But remember that while we conservatives our the minority on this site, we're being attacked with the same viciousness and hatred that those in the 'sexual and gender minority' are in the real world.  And I've heard more than once in this thread about how wrong that is.

My problem is I don't think Romney will reverse the trend, he will placate republicans on the hill and the tea party for a time, but likely only make things worse in the long run. The man is far too willing to change everything, and anything, to win. He's also incredibly distant and aloof, his time at baen captial was spent mostly buying and selling other companies, not running them, and has all the diplomatic skills of an angry boar.

I don't hate Obama but I don't really like him either, heck I admit I voted for him first time round, mostly because it came down to VP's and Palin opened her mouth. She did more to loose Mc. Cain the campain than anyone else including his opponent, except maybe Bush Jr.

Idealy I hope the president wins, but comes so close to loosing he realizes "o kay, better smarten up or people will impeech me." meanwhile the republicans realize "we can't just keep obstructing Obama, we have to do our jobs or we'll never get elected again."
maybe stop the freaking gridlock...

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #81 on: October 06, 2012, 12:56:54 AM »
My take as a conservative.

Cuts alone won't fix the problem. You want to lower the budget for your kids/grandkids/ect, you have to accept one essential truth. That TAXES, like death, are unavoidable. We have let a small minority game the system for so long, following the Gordon Gecko motto of 'Greed is good' that they forgot that their peers in the 40s, 50s and 60s paid far more and still profited.

Of course back in THOSE days the idea of a 20% return in 5 quarters or less was considered stupid or disastrous. Our business practices have gotten fundementally short sighted and the idea that 'paying more' to the govenrment has gone hand in hand with 'unfair'.

You run a business and owe a TON of interest on something, what do you do? You pay what you can out of your budget to cut down to the principal owed by paying down the interest. Without gutting your operations and operating reserve if you can.

Government? Oh now that is TOTALLY different, you gut the budget and CUT taxes on the share that has more breaks and outs than any other group while cutting the same breaks for the part that is most productive to the overall economy.

This is a conservative outlook only in that the people who are claiming to be conservative are pushing it.

True conservatives accept that it WILL be painful and that with our downsized military we don't need to TRIPLE the budget and gut every social program that a religious right fundie says is 'bad'.

Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #82 on: October 06, 2012, 01:04:08 AM »
see I say that or even mention "we are going to have to raise taxes in addition to cuts" and I get shouted down mostly under the logic that "once they go up, they never come down"

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #83 on: October 06, 2012, 01:10:50 AM »
see I say that or even mention "we are going to have to raise taxes in addition to cuts" and I get shouted down mostly under the logic that "once they go up, they never come down"

Point out that logical fallacy and things REALLY get nasty. But it happened. Folks in Romney's income bracket at one point paid something like what.. 60+%? (Can't find the figures I was last week right now)

Offline Stattick

Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #84 on: October 06, 2012, 02:06:26 AM »
But remember that while we conservatives our the minority on this site, we're being attacked with the same viciousness and hatred that those in the 'sexual and gender minority' are in the real world.

No you're not. Transgendered and gay people are killed in the real world for being who they are. None of us have threatened to kill you, assaulted you, or castrated you and hung your corpse from a fence as a warning to others that your kind aren't wanted around these parts.



EDIT: Wait... you're *that guy*. The one that posted in Beguile's Mistress's blog that you have no sympathy or human compassion for people that are bullied. That you think that anyone that kills themselves because of bullying is a pathetic loser that deserved to die. That bullying makes you strong.

And now you're whining that the mean liburals are bullying you. Let me tell you, you haven't begun to see bullying yet. But you're still crying like a bitch. And you're crying to the moderators to save you too. Here's some advice, from yourself: "I hate this anti-bullying movement.  It's only another method for everyone to coddle those who don't need it." See, you don't need the mods to save you. Your words, internet tough guy. So, suck it up. Be a man. Or is it getting too hot in here for you? You gonna be a hypocrite and go run crying to the mods that I'm a big meanie, and I hurt your feelings with my grandiose words?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2012, 02:37:40 AM by Stattick »

Offline tozhma

Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #85 on: October 06, 2012, 04:59:26 AM »
"But remember that while we conservatives our the minority on this site, we're being attacked with the same viciousness and hatred that those in the 'sexual and gender minority' are in the real world. "

I keep my Leige status to myself in real life. I don't go around "hot doggin' it" if you know what I mean. I was casual friends with this guy at work for three months, and then someone found out about me through someone else outside of work, and word got around. He tied a rope around my neck. This wasn't the first time I'd been outed, harassed, and threatened at work. I like you, but I just don't see the comparison.

To take a different point though...

It's weird, I actually know a LOT of conservatives and liberals. I know both the president of my city's chapter of the republican party, and the people who organized our local version of the Occupy protests on a pretty deep and personal level. I have one friend who's a republican currently running for city council and we both had come to this same point of desperation through different channels.

He told me he was ready to "blow the party up" because he was getting tired of tea partiers pushing extreme, quasi revolutionary solutions. I, being a self proclaimed "lazy socialist", had the same experience with the Occupy protests. I had come to the point of starting to feel as though I was a conservative, and he as though he were liberal, only because we spent so much time disagreeing with the more extreme members of our respective paths. It was honestly a pretty cool moment to share that mutual desperation of being surrounded by idiots and frankly, nice to know you're not the only one.

I've had people I respect curl their lips calling me a "centrist" because I said I preferred to work for reform instead of revolution. That kind of stuff will wear anybody down.

Now, I don't want to mislead anyone, I'm certainly a pinko. I keep a copy of the Communist Manifesto in my bag NEXT TO my pocket constitution in my book bag. Though, there are more than just 'conservative' arguments against Obama.

The Atlantic had an interesting article recently on the problems with Obama. I will add that I don't think Romney would fix these, but it does show the other side of Obama that has been swept under the rug, what with flying death robots etc.

Anyway, I think it would be interesting to see what you guys think of his arguments.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/10/why-i-refuse-to-refuse-to-vote-for-obama/263116/
« Last Edit: October 06, 2012, 05:07:41 AM by tozhma »

Offline MasterMischief

Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #86 on: October 06, 2012, 07:44:55 AM »
The point of this thread is to bring together like-minded conservatives who hate what this government is doing to our country.

So you are not interested in debate, just an echo chamber.  Fair enough.  Do you mind dialing down the outrage at other's echo chamber then?

The Constitution is being trampled on and side stepped in alarming ways.

Absolutely.  However, this is not a trait unique to President Obama.  The Patriot Act scared the crap out of me.  I am disappointed in President Obama for not repealing it.  But seriously, do you think Romney is going to touch it?

This government has added over six trillion dollars in debt that bankrupts our country for years to come.

Where was all this outrage while Bush was running it up?  Has Obama added to it?  Certainly.  Stopping two wars on a dime would have had terrible consequences.  I honestly do not see a way of us ever pulling out of Afghanistan or Iraq without some serious growing pains.  There is no way to know if they will ever become useful allies.

My son's chances at college and a good job are bogged down extremely because of that.

You do realize that President Obama wants to make college more affordable, right?  Romney reversed his stance during the debate and said he was for strong schools, but it is hard to take him seriously when this was the first time I heard a peep about schools from him.  Well, except maybe when he was stumping at an actual school.

And anyone who can willingly want the cause of this debt to have another four years to put us even further in the hole is fundamentally flawed.

Is it important enough to you that you would considered a balanced approach?  If the debt is really the priority, then how can you be against raising taxes?  If, however, job creation is the priority, then we need to set aside all the hyperbole about the debt and focus on getting America working.  And if someone is working does it really matter if it is a government job or a private sector job?

I'm also alarmed at how this government is trying to tell me how to live my life.

Again, not a trait unique to President Obama.  Republicans want to tell people who they can and can not marry.  Republicans want to tell women who have been raped, suck it up and have the baby.  Republicans want to tell women, if you can not afford birth control, suck it up...oh and have the baby.  Just do not expect us to offer any help whatsoever to raise it.  Republicans are all too happy trying to tell you how to live your life so you should be equally alarmed.

Those who have been fooled by the Obama doctrine into thinking this is actually good for us.

You do realize that obesity is costing this country millions of dollars in health care cost, right?  Remember that thing you were so concerned about earlier...the debt?  Maybe we could pay it down if we could get more people to a healthy weight.  I am not sure I agree with Michelle's strategy, honestly, I do not know enough about it.  I do think her heart is in the right place and maybe we could have a conversation about better ways to do it rather than screaming, "My liberties!"

It's time to warn others and get this foolishness stopped before our country goes over the cliff and cannot be brought back to the glory it once was.

Robert A. Glover states, "The opposite of crazy is not sane.  It is crazy."  Do you realize you sound just as bad as all the Bush bashers who claimed he was the worst president every?  I realize you just want to gather your friend and bitch and moan about what a terrible president Obama is.  When you are ready for honest debate, set down the hyperbole and we can talk.

So there.  Those are my views.  Take them as you will, or don't.  But remember that while we conservatives our the minority on this site, we're being attacked with the same viciousness and hatred that those in the 'sexual and gender minority' are in the real world.  And I've heard more than once in this thread about how wrong that is.

Presenting opposing views is not attacking.  When you open with flinging attacks of your own...well, you kind of brought it on yourself.

Offline Serephino

Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #87 on: October 06, 2012, 09:42:51 AM »
I haven't seen any attacking in this thread except yours.  It is clear that you wanted an echo chamber, but, sorry to say, you cannot tell us liberals we are not allowed to debate in this thread and voice our own opinions respectfully.  That's kind of what this board is for....

You are the one that called President Obama the liberal messiah.  That right there offends me on so many levels.  Is he perfect?  I will be one of the first people to say, no, he isn't.  I was very disappointed with the NDAA.  I would like to see him fight harder for the little people.  The major flaw that I see is he's trying to approach things from a diplomatic stance, and the GOP has been steamrolling him.  I didn't watch the debate, but some of the clips I've seen displease me.  It's like he was reading a pre-written speech.  I'm happy he wasn't being all negative and using scare tactics.  I mean, I'm so sick and tired of the scare tactics and the finger pointing it isn't funny.  He's just been so underwhelming lately...

I see the school lunch thing as a double edged sword really.  Michelle Obama certainly does mean well because childhood obesity is a huge problem right now.  If kids are going hungry then it's their own stupid fault though.  It's like.... something I will never forget is watching this documentary of this morbidly obese guy.  He was something like 600lbs.  They took him to this clinic place to try and save his life.  Of course, since he was an adult and had to want to change they didn't do any food monitoring.  They offered healthy options planned by a nutritionist, but if you wanted a pizza, they'd get you one.  His first night there they offered him a huge but tasty looking chef salad.  He didn't want it.  He refused the healthier salad and demanded cheeseburgers.  At the end of the show they said he died after a month or so.  People heavier than him successfully lose weight all the time, he just wasn't willing enough to change.

The point I'm trying to make is the kids are going hungry because they are like that guy.  They are offered better options, but choose to go hungry.  Kids I went to school with did the same thing.  The cafeteria food wasn't up to their standard so they'd get a candy bar and a soda out of the vending machines.  I was of the opinion then, and still am, that if they ended up hungry later it was their own stupid fault.  They could have always packed a lunch, but in high school that isn't the cool thing to do.  Also, you have parents not helping the matter.  If all they feed their kids is fast food, then yeah, that's what the kid will be used to.  My mom used to give me fruit as snacks, and I still love fresh fruit.  However, if you want to overfeed your son until he's at least 300lbs to spite Michelle Obama, be my guest.  Just don't come crying to me when he dies at the age of 26 from a heart attack.  Hunkering down and clinging to your big mac just because you don't like being told it's bad for you is essentially cutting off your nose to spite your face.  The sad reality is that kids do need to be taught how to eat better.  When kids grow up they mimic their parents usually.  I'm 27 and I have bad joints, what's called Irritable Bowel Syndrome (though irritable doesn't quite describe it), I had a gallstone, I get kidney stones, and I just had to have my heart checked out.  Older people are supposed to have these health problems, but I'm overweight.  I used to not see it as a huge problem because I was healthy except for my bowel issues.  I've had those since I was a kid.  But, I'm not healthy anymore, and had I fixed the problem much sooner a lot of this crap could have been avoided. 

And, oh, this is precious...  My friend W has an immune system that is so weak because of her lifestyle that she ended up in the hospital with a parasite that is commonly found in HIV patients.  She thinks she got it from McDonalds, but isn't sure because she ate a lot of fast food from a bunch of different places that day.  She just had McDonalds for dinner, then her symptoms started later that night.  She's also on Medicaid, so the PA taxpayers paid the bill for her, and will keep paying for any other complication that may arise from her lifestyle.  You may not live in PA, but if you did, wouldn't you wish that someone had tried to get her to be healthier when she was a kid?  She's at the doctor every other week for problems that could be fixed with some high fiber/low fat foods and exercise.     

Offline MasterMischief

Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #88 on: October 06, 2012, 10:02:52 AM »
Quote from: Serephino
People heavier than him successfully lose weight all the time, he just wasn't willing enough to change.

Forgive me for going off topic, but I wanted to reply to this point.  It is easy to judge from the outside.  There is no telling what that gentleman's demons were.  Maybe you even overcame similar demons.  There is no way of knowing how strong his were.  If you are completely vice free, count yourself very lucky.  Consider that many others are not so fortunate.

Offline Mr Self DestructTopic starter

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Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #89 on: October 06, 2012, 01:39:28 PM »
No you're not. Transgendered and gay people are killed in the real world for being who they are. None of us have threatened to kill you, assaulted you, or castrated you and hung your corpse from a fence as a warning to others that your kind aren't wanted around these parts.



EDIT: Wait... you're *that guy*. The one that posted in Beguile's Mistress's blog that you have no sympathy or human compassion for people that are bullied. That you think that anyone that kills themselves because of bullying is a pathetic loser that deserved to die. That bullying makes you strong.

And now you're whining that the mean liburals are bullying you. Let me tell you, you haven't begun to see bullying yet. But you're still crying like a bitch. And you're crying to the moderators to save you too. Here's some advice, from yourself: "I hate this anti-bullying movement.  It's only another method for everyone to coddle those who don't need it." See, you don't need the mods to save you. Your words, internet tough guy. So, suck it up. Be a man. Or is it getting too hot in here for you? You gonna be a hypocrite and go run crying to the mods that I'm a big meanie, and I hurt your feelings with my grandiose words?

I never said I didn't have sympathy or compassion for those that are bullied. And the words 'pathetic loser' are yours.  Anyone who disagrees can click your link and read for themselves what I wrote, which clearly states, 'their outlook on life is skewed'.  Not pathetic.  And I certainly wasn't calling anyone a loser.
When I saw bullying happening to my friends in school, I went to their defense, regardless of the consequences.  And yes, many times I got my ass kicked for the effort.  But it's the effort that counts.  In that same thread, you also pointed out how many times you watched people getting bullied....did you do anything to stop it?  If so, good for you.  If not, then you have nothing to complain about.  A large part of the problem is when people view this and do nothing to prevent it.  Like Edmund Burke said, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

And no, I'm not whining or crying to the mods, but I am asking for a fair shake. 

So, internet tough guy, it's real easy to decry those who don't agree with you as hypocrites and bullies.  But we're all human.  We all make mistakes.  One thing I've noticed about the political forum is that there's a lot of glad-handing and patting on the back of those who agree with you, but when it comes to disagreements, anyone who feels different than the majority here is made of a pariah and driven off.  There's very little debate.  There's very little discussion, but there is a lot of name calling and attempts to drive off those who go against the norm.

So, rather than let myself become Elliquiy's next scapegoat, I'm going to bow out of this conversation.  I've said my peace, and it's quite obvious that many of you will never change your minds.  And that's fine.  But take the personal responsibility to live up to the demands that you make of others.  And to you conservatives here, I wish you the best.  Remember that we are taking our country back in November.  No matter the outcry of the Obama-worshipers, the principles of our founding fathers will not be lost to the progressive decline of our country by those who hate the very things that made it great to begin with.

Offline Question Mark

Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #90 on: October 06, 2012, 02:07:32 PM »
Your arrogant tone and constant denigrations are the reasons you've been targeted, Clown.  "Obama worshippers"?  Really?  It's like you think everyone who supports Obama is a mindless zombie, their unending masses drowning out your enlightened, "responsible" wisdom.

I have no problem with the positions you hold.  What I have a problem with is your demeaning and unnecessarily provocative attitude.

Offline MasterMischief

Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #91 on: October 06, 2012, 02:09:04 PM »
Quote from: Dark Clown
There's very little discussion, but there is a lot of name calling and attempts to drive off those who go against the norm.

Would you please provide references so I can determine if your interpretation of 'little discussion', 'name calling' and 'attempts to drive off' match mine.  I concede that Stattick called you an 'internet tough guy' but that really has to be one of the weakest 'name calling' I have witnessed.  I also think he has a very valid point that you are being a bit hypocritical.

Quote from: Dark Clown
No matter the outcry of the Obama-worshipers...

Now who is name calling?

Quote from: Dark Clown
...the principles of our founding fathers will not be lost to the progressive decline of our country by those who hate the very things that made it great to begin with.

So suggesting that anyone who disagrees with you hates America is debate?  Please try again.

Offline Will

Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #92 on: October 06, 2012, 02:57:10 PM »
Would you please provide references so I can determine if your interpretation of 'little discussion', 'name calling' and 'attempts to drive off' match mine.  I concede that Stattick called you an 'internet tough guy' but that really has to be one of the weakest 'name calling' I have witnessed.  I also think he has a very valid point that you are being a bit hypocritical.

He also called him a bitch, to be fair.

Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #93 on: October 06, 2012, 04:52:00 PM »
I never said I didn't have sympathy or compassion for those that are bullied. And the words 'pathetic loser' are yours.  Anyone who disagrees can click your link and read for themselves what I wrote, which clearly states, 'their outlook on life is skewed'.  Not pathetic.  And I certainly wasn't calling anyone a loser.
When I saw bullying happening to my friends in school, I went to their defense, regardless of the consequences.  And yes, many times I got my ass kicked for the effort.  But it's the effort that counts.  In that same thread, you also pointed out how many times you watched people getting bullied....did you do anything to stop it?  If so, good for you.  If not, then you have nothing to complain about.  A large part of the problem is when people view this and do nothing to prevent it.  Like Edmund Burke said, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

And no, I'm not whining or crying to the mods, but I am asking for a fair shake. 

So, internet tough guy, it's real easy to decry those who don't agree with you as hypocrites and bullies.  But we're all human.  We all make mistakes.  One thing I've noticed about the political forum is that there's a lot of glad-handing and patting on the back of those who agree with you, but when it comes to disagreements, anyone who feels different than the majority here is made of a pariah and driven off.  There's very little debate.  There's very little discussion, but there is a lot of name calling and attempts to drive off those who go against the norm.

So, rather than let myself become Elliquiy's next scapegoat, I'm going to bow out of this conversation.  I've said my peace, and it's quite obvious that many of you will never change your minds.  And that's fine.  But take the personal responsibility to live up to the demands that you make of others.  And to you conservatives here, I wish you the best.  Remember that we are taking our country back in November.  No matter the outcry of the Obama-worshipers, the principles of our founding fathers will not be lost to the progressive decline of our country by those who hate the very things that made it great to begin with.

people are already picking this apart, but man... the idea that bulling makes you stronger is bullshit, I was a school pariah picked on by everyone, beaten down, if I fought back I got in trouble for it. Tell me honestly it build's character when you are jumped by three guys who slam your head into the sink hard enough to chip the thing, and they did this "because it was fun"

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Remember that we are taking our country back in November.
From the guys who were elected when... four years ago after two wars, a mountian of war debt due to cutting taxes during wartime, multiple accounts of corruption and cronyisim, the near distruction of New Orleans, and an econonomic collapse that threatened to become a new Depression due to mismanagement, fiscial lying, and greed which involved selling american housing debt to europeans for a profit. The party in power was removed from power by a democratic system?

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the principles of our founding fathers will not be lost to the progressive decline of our country by those who hate the very things that made it great to begin with.
Okay now you sound like you are in the tea party. Along with the other "Democrats hate freedom" hyperbole. The founding fathers had many varied opinions, they were not saints, but from that they founded a country on the idea that soverinty rests with the people, not a king, not nobility, and not the gun or the sword.
The people were pissed at the republican party 6 years ago, and showed it in the election of 2008. The problem is to me, the leadership has gone incresingly extreme measures to try and hold onto power.

the fact remains obama did not "steal" the election on the backs of a political "cult" as fox has been crying for the last four years. He won it in the same national election we are seeing now.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #94 on: October 06, 2012, 04:58:29 PM »
Funny thing.. I know that the founding fathers had a RADICALLY different opinion on Corporate identity and political interference. Some of them were very very anti-corporate. So it amuses me when the GOP and Tea Party claims they would support some of the attrociites that they are pushing forward.

I'm not anti-business.. I am all for a 'fair market' and 'even battlefield' but big business isn't doing that. They have hijcacked the process. Just look at the amount of cash spent this year and by how many. The answer: A HELL of a LOT, with little accountability, by very fucking few people. Something like less than a couple dozen people/companies have put like 70% of the independent Superpac funding into play.

Scary amount when you consider the implications.

The GoP/Tea party aren't conservatives.. they are double high authoritarians with a huge fundie/corporate backing. That means the leadership will do whatever they are told to keep hold of what they got and get more. They will lie, cheat, and do everything they tell us not to do in the process. We're the 'little people'.

Facing up to the fact that cutting the budget to the bone, disenfranchising labor and government services being done away with or privatized to 'reduce costs' (despite evidence to the contrary) won't fix things. We have to bite the bullet and accept that taxes CAN'T keep getting cut.

You pay off a loan but 'up-paying' and working your way past the interest and into the principal. That was what made me nervous about Bush II's tax refund when he came into office. It felt like a bribe then and now it's a precedent.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2012, 05:06:16 PM by Callie Del Noire »

Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #95 on: October 06, 2012, 05:53:55 PM »
I'm kinda on the same level with you Callie.
The last thing we need are some kind of self styled "New Nobility" and that's kinda how romney lost my vote this time round, he kinda struts, thinks, and talks, like some kind of nobleman. This is what started me investigating and listening. I've seen a lot of stuff in his corner that keeps me far away from him.

Offline tozhma

Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #96 on: October 06, 2012, 06:19:27 PM »
Maybe we should try rebooting this thread with a different twist?

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Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #97 on: October 06, 2012, 06:22:18 PM »
Here's the thing....in the political forums on E, liberal opinions are often a lot more welcome, and if you express an opinion in-line with the GOP (Not that that's always the same thing) there are a lot more people disagreeing with you and agreeing with each other than the other way around.  This isn't because of some E conspiracy to keep you down, it's not because the people here hate free speech or hate you, and it isn't because opposing viewpoints aren't welcome.  It's because the vast majority of people on this board disagree with you.  Shockingly, when you are the minority opinion the majority will disagree with you...this doesn't make you a "scapegoat", it makes you a person with an unpopular point of view.

Offline Bayushi

Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #98 on: October 06, 2012, 06:23:15 PM »
There are many economic conservatives here. AndyZ, Zakharra, Zamdrist, Akiko, and others.

There are a number of military conservatives here. Even a few who believe the Iraq War was a good thing and are willing to state that.

Social conservatives either get converted or driven off.



There have been a lot of heated disagreements and I get chastised by staff about my language occasionally, and do hope to improve matters, but rehashing the same argument repeatedly is quite frustrating.

I do have to wonder where the 'line' is, though. What sort of talk needs to be tolerated to be considered 'non-partisan'? I routinely come across 'right wing' websites where open discussion of committing genocide against 'liberals' is tolerated and sometimes encouraged. Where should I draw the line to make things 'acceptable' to 'conservatives'?

Because it's demagoguery like calling Obama 'anti-American' that leads to such talk. Especially when it comes from people who put their political affiliation before their nation, and switch to a jingoistic frenzy when they have power.

Demagoguery is not conservative. It's an authoritarian tactic.

Anti-intellectualism is not conservative. It's an authoritarian tactic.

Conservatism is about caution.

People are making it into a platform of cowardice.

I am hopeful that the distinction will become a more mainstream concept and that we can return to some degree of sanity.
Thank you, Veks! You put that in such an excellent way!

I am quasi-Libertarian and Conservative. I am a non-white, disabled (read: poor as shit) lesbian. Even as a lesbian, I still like to maintain strong family values, as a strong family is the building block of society.

I do not take issue with homosexual or lesbian couples having children (or adopting). Unless, of course, they allow their sexual bias to color their judgment and behavior (I can't fucking tolerate the drama queens, queens in general, flamers, and the perpetual victims in the gay community).

My issue with the Democrat party is that they continue to act more and more like the CPUSA (Communist Party USA). While liking communism is fine and all (differing opinions being just that), forcing that ideology on a nation founded to the exact opposite is not going to go over well. Especially when it starts leading towards the economic malaise that we have now.

I subsist on SSI now that I am disabled, though I would prefer to be able to work. With the way things are going, Social Security will be insolvent in about six years. The system was never intended to be like this, as it was never expected that A: people would live this much longer, and B: that we would ever experience a baby boom the way we did following World War II.

We're spending at about 100% GDP right now. History (such a cruel mistress) has shown repeatedly that when this happens, said nations eventually crash. The Weimar Republic and most of the rest of Germany post-WW I, Japan (on several occasions now), and the Soviet Union all should be serving as bright neon indicators the size of the Empire State Building that "STOP! TURN AROUND AND FIX IT!" is the only course available to us.

I don't have children, but I do have a niece that I would like to see lead a good life. I may not even live to see 2013 (recent serious medical issues popped up), but that does not mean I don't care about what will happen. I don't much like Mitt, but I honestly think he would be a lot better than what we currently have.

What happened to "Ask not what your country can do for you; but what You can do for your country"? Have the so-called "Liberals" really fallen that far?

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #99 on: October 06, 2012, 06:25:11 PM »
Conservative: a political or theological orientation advocating the preservation of the best in society and opposing radical changes.

Who defines what's "best in society?"  As for opposing radical change...well, I think anyone could make the case that wrenching change is seldom good for economies or nations.  On the other hand, Spock was right when he pointed out that change is the essential constant of the universe.  As Darwin said, it is not the strongest that survive in the long run, but rather those most responsive and adaptive to change.

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As for my own personal views, I don't give a damn if you're gay or straight or transsexual or what have you.  That isn't what this is about.

That's good, but understand when you hang out the "conservative" shingle, you're encompassing a subset of conservatives that do definitely give a damn about their neighbors' sexuality and, in some cases, have no problem with the government telling them what they can do in their own bedrooms.

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I don't give a good God damn if you're the first black President.  I have lots of black friends, and quite a few of them hate Obama's policies.

That's good too, but see above.

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The point of this thread is to bring together like-minded conservatives who hate what this government is doing to our country.  The Constitution is being trampled on and side stepped in alarming ways.  This government has added over six trillion dollars in debt that bankrupts our country for years to come.  My son's chances at college and a good job are bogged down extremely because of that.  And anyone who can willingly want the cause of this debt to have another four years to put us even further in the hole is fundamentally flawed.

(Emphasis mine) It's that bolded part that kind of scuppers it.  Not all conservatives are of "like mind" as you.  Yet they would still argue for the right to wear the "conservative" label.  And the debt you refer to began with Richard Nixon (R), who took America off the gold standard and facilitated the unprecedented kiting of federal checks we see today.  cf. Ronald Reagan for another big steamy scoop full of debt.  The only President in modern memory to preside over a budgetary surplus was a Democrat, Bill Clinton.

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I'm also alarmed at how this government is trying to tell me how to live my life.  Michelle Obama's take over of school lunches is making our kids so hungry they can't concentrate in class. 

Source?

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We're being told that we need to help them adjust to the new menus by serving healthier foods.  We're being told what is good for us and what is bad and that's not the America I was raised to respect and love.  Our freedoms are slowly, but surely, being taken away, one at a time, and what's worse?  Those who have been fooled by the Obama doctrine into thinking this is actually good for us.

Warrantless wiretaps?  The Patriot Act?  Extraordinary rendition?  Indefinite detention without trial?  Those ring a bell?

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Well not me.  I'm standing up against it.  I'm putting my foot down and calling for those who are tired of being pushed around by the government.  Enough is enough.  We are the Paul and Paulette Reveres of our time.  It's time to warn others and get this foolishness stopped before our country goes over the cliff and cannot be brought back to the glory it once was.

You go right on ahead.

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So there.  Those are my views.  Take them as you will, or don't.  But remember that while we conservatives our the minority on this site, we're being attacked with the same viciousness and hatred that those in the 'sexual and gender minority' are in the real world.  And I've heard more than once in this thread about how wrong that is.

That's rather debatable.  Dissent is not "attack."  If you post in a public forum, be prepared to take some heat without getting butt-hurt about it.