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Author Topic: Any Conservatives on E?  (Read 4252 times)

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Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #125 on: October 07, 2012, 11:57:11 AM »

My issue with the Democrat party is that they continue to act more and more like the CPUSA (Communist Party USA). While liking communism is fine and all (differing opinions being just that), forcing that ideology on a nation founded to the exact opposite is not going to go over well. Especially when it starts leading towards the economic malaise that we have now.

Would you care to elaborate on that?  Because, by global standards, the Democrats are center, with maybe a few (like the Jesse Jackson crowd) being center-left.  Not far left like the CPUSA.

Quote
I subsist on SSI now that I am disabled, though I would prefer to be able to work. With the way things are going, Social Security will be insolvent in about six years. The system was never intended to be like this, as it was never expected that A: people would live this much longer, and B: that we would ever experience a baby boom the way we did following World War II.

Then you should be glad America met Marx halfway with the New Deal.  The Right here these days would have no problem putting you out on the ice since you are no longer a profit center for the Forbes 400.

Offline MasterMischief

Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #126 on: October 07, 2012, 12:04:07 PM »
Quote from: Dark Clown
Because my belief in personal responsibility and self-sufficience isn't a popular one in a world used to taking hand outs.

I think you are wrong.  I think a lot of people believe in personal responsibility and self-sufficiency.  I also believe that many people recognize the benefits of interdependence.  It is kind of a human thing.  Surely, you are familiar with specialization.  The concept that we do not all have to spend the majority of our day hunting down food.  We are stronger when we work together as a team.

You do not want to help those less fortunate than you.  O.k.  Let's talk about that then.  Drop the hyperbole though.  Why are you not equally angry over the incentives for Big Oil?  If anyone could do with a little more self-sufficiency, they certainly can.

Oh!  And for the record, I should like to see no one get banned here or on the board for this thread.  No martyrs please.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 12:05:15 PM by MasterMischief »

Offline Question Mark

Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #127 on: October 07, 2012, 01:31:46 PM »
Thanks Mithy, and good point.

And Stattick, I personally don't care if you like me or not. The way I see it, thats your problem, not mine. No, I'm not sexist, and how you could even come about that conclusion confuses me.

And personally, I have nothing against you either. You're not the first person to lash out at me for my difference of opinion. You prolly won't be the last, either.

So far so good...

Because my belief in personal responsibility and self-sufficience isn't a popular one in a world used to taking hand outs.

And you screwed it up.  Are you trying to provoke people?  Are you trolling?  You sound too intelligent to hold such a narrow minded opinion.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 01:41:32 PM by Question Mark »

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #128 on: October 07, 2012, 01:47:43 PM »
I think you are wrong.  I think a lot of people believe in personal responsibility and self-sufficiency.  I also believe that many people recognize the benefits of interdependence.  It is kind of a human thing.  Surely, you are familiar with specialization.  The concept that we do not all have to spend the majority of our day hunting down food.  We are stronger when we work together as a team.

What many on the Right here in America don't seem to grasp is that, thanks to the free-trade policies THEY supported, America has a long-term structural surplus of unskilled and semi-skilled labor.  There simply aren't enough jobs for those who want them.  It's not an issue of people being lazy.  There's nowhere for them to go.

Offline Cyrano Johnson

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Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #129 on: October 07, 2012, 01:52:55 PM »
Quote from: Mithlomwen
What everyone should keep in mind is that there is a person on the other side of the screen.. .  The thing to keep in mind is, you can disagree with someone, and still be respectful about it. 

Well, it's understandably difficult for people to hew to this standard when someone's views start from and consist of little more than disrespect, and moreover have zilch in the way of substantive backing, such as the now-commonplace movement conservative cant (demonstrated in the thread above) tarring everyone not of their movement as a lazy freeloader or worse. The substantive content of views actually matters, it makes a difference as to whether or not being outraged by those views is justifiable.

As a sidebar to the issue of conservatism, though, I do take it as a salutary sign that movement conservatism is finally self-destructing that it no longer has any clear idea about where to direct its fire. In the old days, the rhetoric about "entitlements" worked, in a Southern Strategy sense, when it was coded dog-whistle language alluding to Affirmative Action and shiftless Negroes. That particular Nixon-era gambit was pretty slimy and racist, sure, but it was at least comprehensible as political tactics and strategy. That now the front has broadened to encompass every American (who isn't a major corporation or investment banker) who gets a supposed "government handout" -- that now the mainstream conservative movement seems to honestly believe it can browbeat veterans and the elderly into believing their hard-earned benefits are "entitlements" and "handouts" fit only for losers -- indicates a truly amazing collapse of the tactical understanding the movement once possessed.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 01:54:52 PM by Cyrano Johnson »

Offline Neroon

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Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #130 on: October 07, 2012, 02:38:35 PM »
Let's keep the thread on the issue and not on the personalities, shall we?  Remember the guideline, if you have an issue with a specific person, take it to PM.

Criticise points of view or arguments but not people.  As it is, it's getting close to the point where locking this thread is becoming an appealing option.

Offline Serephino

Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #131 on: October 07, 2012, 07:44:08 PM »
I am disabled due to severe bi-polar disorder.  I tried working.  In the space of two months I had 4 jobs, the longest lasting one being two weeks.  I only lasted that long because my mom got me the job, and the lowly kitchen people were half afraid to fire the crazy daughter of one of the office people.  The others I was fired on the first day.  What exactly am I supposed to do?  How am I supposed to take responsibility for my life? 

Therapy would be a good start, but that takes money.  Is my mother supposed to put herself under to pay for that therapy?  That won't accomplish much, especially if it takes years.  Medication costs money.  The medication I take now isn't even covered by most insurance companies.  I have to get a cheap Walmart knock-off that doesn't work as well.   

Because I can't hold a job should I just have the common decency to die?  Gee, what an attitude to have toward another human being...  Also, something to consider is that when I get my government check is goes back into the economy.  I use it to pay bills, buy food, and occasionally go to the mall and have a little fun when I can.  All that money given to Big Oil goes into banks and sits there.... 

Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #132 on: October 07, 2012, 08:07:20 PM »
I have a friend who has crones, and his body is failing him like his father before him. He hates the idea of disability, hates having to go on it, and hates the idea of being unable to work for a living.
Yet it is inevitible, it's either that or wind up dead. He is trying to stay off it for as long as possable.
Another friend is disabled due to a skin problem that developed due to exposure to chemcials in the military. He would love to be working, and moreover out in the field with his SCA (mideval group with full contact & brutal combat) buddies. But he can't it wracks his joints with pain, and makes his back go out easily preventing him from working industry, and the skin flakes mean he can't work service lest he contaminate things.

We have a responsibility to take care of those who are hurt, or physically disabled. Any first world nation should. Those people are not the "parasites" one of my father's friends (hardcore republican) goes on about being on "the government dole"

Also in the case of friend B he is using his Vet funding to get retrained, so that when the VA pays for him to have it cured next year, he can jump right into the work force or get placed in a good job with a local company.

Though that doesn't mean we should pay a woman who has 7 kids for having more.

Offline elone

Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #133 on: October 07, 2012, 11:55:31 PM »
The republican approach to disabled people seems to be to let their families, friends, and charitable organizations take care of them, just don't put it on the taxpayer. You know, the lock up the crazy uncle in the attic approach. We should be a nation that takes care of it's people first, whatever their needs, disabilities, or socioeconomic status. I fail to understand how we can always manage to fund wars, bailouts, and billions in wasted government programs for all types of things, but fail the basic needs of people. It is outrageous. No one in this country should go to bed hungry, want for medical care, shelter, or any basic human needs. For me, I would rather be taxed at 50% and have cradle to grave security, than spend half my income in private health insurance.

And if that means a few may be taking advantage of the situation, so what? Without 'we the people' this country is squat.


Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: Any Conservatives on E?
« Reply #134 on: October 08, 2012, 12:29:53 AM »
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