The Election Thread

[Stattick]

Here's the running results of all the big initiatives:

http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/results/race/ballot?hpt=elec_racenav

[Marikir]

Hmm.  Not a bad victory speech.  Got a few chills during that. 

[Vekseid]

Gay marriage ban looks to fail in Minnesota.

No is 113,000 votes ahead with about a quarter million votes remaining, including some in Hennepin and other populated, socially liberal counties.

[Michael Corvus]

I'm so disappointed in this Presidential election. After the four years we just trudged through, I had faith in the American people to vote for real change. Instead, "We, the people"  - sheeple - ... have voted for four more years of status quo; of no budget, of fiscal irresponsibility, of our bloating government usurping powers that are not delegated to it by our constitution. Four more years of hoping for change. Goodbye military, civil liberties, and good paying American jobs. Hello increased national debt, government mandated health care, sharia law, redistribution of our nation's wealth to the other nations of the world, and the undermining of our nation's foundation... our Constitution.

The Constitution of the United States of America is NOT fundamentally flawed, Mr. Obama. It is politicians like you who are fundamentally flawed, who think they can do it better than our founding fathers, who twist and pervert and disregard the principles of the greatest document ever authored by man. It is our non-representing representatives who serve only themselves and their whims and not "We the people" who are fundamentally flawed.

I tremble with fear for my country. God help us all.

[Vekseid]

I'm so disappointed in this Presidential election. After the four years we just trudged through, I had faith in the American people to vote for real change. Instead, "We, the people"  - sheeple - ... have voted for four more years of status quo; of no budget, of fiscal irresponsibility, of our bloating government usurping powers that are not delegated to it by our constitution. Four more years of hoping for change. Goodbye military, civil liberties, and good paying American jobs. Hello increased national debt, government mandated health care, sharia law, redistribution of our nation's wealth to the other nations of the world, and the undermining of our nation's foundation... our Constitution.

The Constitution of the United States of America is NOT fundamentally flawed, Mr. Obama. It is politicians like you who are fundamentally flawed, who think they can do it better than our founding fathers, who twist and pervert and disregard the principles of the greatest document ever authored by man. It is our non-representing representatives who serve only themselves and their whims and not "We the people" who are fundamentally flawed.

I tremble with fear for my country. God help us all.

Sharia law! *snerk*

I'm actually rather pleasantly surprised by the reaction of the right this time around. A lot more measured and self-reflecting than in 2008.

Edit: Just quoted post.

[Stattick]

I'm so disappointed in this Presidential election. After the four years we just trudged through, I had faith in the American people to vote for real change. Instead, "We, the people"  - sheeple - ... have voted for four more years of status quo; of no budget, of fiscal irresponsibility, of our bloating government usurping powers that are not delegated to it by our constitution. Four more years of hoping for change. Goodbye military, civil liberties, and good paying American jobs. Hello increased national debt, government mandated health care, sharia law, redistribution of our nation's wealth to the other nations of the world, and the undermining of our nation's foundation... our Constitution.

The Constitution of the United States of America is NOT fundamentally flawed, Mr. Obama. It is politicians like you who are fundamentally flawed, who think they can do it better than our founding fathers, who twist and pervert and disregard the principles of the greatest document ever authored by man. It is our non-representing representatives who serve only themselves and their whims and not "We the people" who are fundamentally flawed.

I tremble with fear for my country. God help us all.

Let me guess. You watch A LOT of Fox News, right? 

[Miss Lilly]

So, if someone has an opinion different to yours, Stattick, it must mean they got it off Fox news?

[Nadir]

I've done a lot of google-fu and I still have yet to understand something. I get that the general populous don't vote for president in these votes, that's the job of the 500 or so Electoral College people. What I'm wondering is, what is this voting for?

Forgive my ignorance, I'm trying to understand.

[LunarSage]

I've done a lot of google-fu and I still have yet to understand something. I get that the general populous don't vote for president in these votes, that's the job of the 500 or so Electoral College people. What I'm wondering is, what is this voting for?

Forgive my ignorance, I'm trying to understand.

Think of it like this.  As far as I have been able to research...

Each state gets a certain number of electoral votes, votes which are what elect the president.  Every state basically has a separate 'election' if you will to see who the people in that state vote for.  Whoever wins the state (Obama or Romney) wins all the electoral votes (with certain possible exceptions) for that state.

So the people do elect the president.  There are no 'electoral people' (I used to wonder about that myself).  It's just that the popular vote in some rare cases may not match the electoral vote.

[Vekseid]

So, if someone has an opinion different to yours, Stattick, it must mean they got it off Fox news?

I'm not sure if Corvus is serious. The people making statements like that tend to think of Fox as being too liberal.

I've done a lot of google-fu and I still have yet to understand something. I get that the general populous don't vote for president in these votes, that's the job of the 500 or so Electoral College people. What I'm wondering is, what is this voting for?

Forgive my ignorance, I'm trying to understand.

Not sure what you are referring to by 'this voting'?

The general populace votes in various state elections to elect state and local representatives (and sometimes judicial appointments) directly. Voters in a state also determine who their electors will be, and thus while the popular vote is not well-reflected in the electoral college, the person who wins the popular vote is heavily favored.

[Stattick]

So, if someone has an opinion different to yours, Stattick, it must mean they got it off Fox news?

Sometimes it's Fox. Sometimes it's the crazy conservative talk radio shows like Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, etc. Sometimes it's the conspiracy nuts on Coast to Coast. Sometimes it's something from the crazy end of the religion pool. And sometimes I'm just wrong.

But when you post something like what Michael Corvus posted... yeah, I could waste a bunch of time writing a post that dissects and refutes every single thing he said (because he literally didn't say anything correct in his post), or I can just point and laugh.

[Miss Lilly]

All I'm saying is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and entitled to express it, without having someone suggest that it's not their opinion but something they saw on the telly.

[LunarSage]

This quote puts it more succinctly than I think I could. 

Presidential electors are selected on a state-by-state basis, as determined by the laws of each state. Generally (with Maine and Nebraska being the exceptions), each state appoints its electors on a winner-take-all basis, based on the statewide popular vote on Election Day. Although ballots list the names of the presidential candidates, voters within the 50 states and Washington, D.C. actually choose electors for their state when they vote for President and Vice President. These presidential electors in turn cast electoral votes for those two offices. Even though the aggregate national popular vote is calculated by state officials and media organizations, the national popular vote is not the basis for electing a President or Vice President.

A candidate must receive an absolute majority of electoral votes (currently 270) to win the Presidency. If no candidate receives a majority in the election for President, or Vice President, that election is determined via a contingency procedure in the Twelfth Amendment, which is explained in detail below.

[Rozel]

the national popular vote is not the basis for electing a President or Vice President.

This part always boggled my mind.. but we saw it with the Gore/Bush race. I also think we saw a down-slide in voters casting votes after that moment in time as, the people learned they weren't necessarily the deciding factor in elections. (which they should be.)

[Stattick]

All I'm saying is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and entitled to express it, without having someone suggest that it's not their opinion but something they saw on the telly.

Sure, people are entitled to their own opinions, whatever they are. It's not illegal to believe in a Flat Earth. Even if it was illegal, the sanctity of one's own thoughts is still a natural human right.

You also have a right to tell others your opinions, no matter how crazy they are.

However, people have the right to confront the crazy opinions of others. Not all opinions are equal. Some people have opinions that are based on fact, while others have opinions that aren't. It's this false notion that we should hold all opinions in equal esteem that is the problem.

So yeah, people are entitled to any opinion that they have. But if they start sharing opinions that aren't based in fact, then someone may come along and say so. That is their right. And frankly, people don't deserve respect because of having an incorrect opinion. However, we should still attempt to be civil.

[gaggedLouise]

This part always boggled my mind.. but we saw it with the Gore/Bush race. I also think we saw a down-slide in voters casting votes after that moment in time as, the people learned they weren't necessarily the deciding factor in elections. (which they should be.)

I always thought of it as a means of ensuring that the president, or the senate majority (still two senators per state no matter how large or small), won't simply take their support from one or two heavily-populated belts. Imagine a president rising to power only on New England/the NE urban belt, Illinois, California and one or two more - and who knew he would never have to do serious campaigning in most of the inland states. He might have the popular vote, but he would seem very remote to very many all over the country. His legitimate claim to represent them could appear paper thin, even though it seemed okeh in constutional terms. With more and more people moving to a few megacity regions this is a valid concern.

In Britain, the conservative party is pretty much politically dead in the north, it's been that way for at least twenty-five years. They aren't taking any seats at all north of something like Birmingham, it looked like that already around 1990, and I think that's a real problem for people like Thatcher and Cameron, though rarely discussed.

I admit the electoral system with its ceremonies and special rules is a bit old-fashioned, but in a system with as much checks and balances as the U.S. it sort of makes sense.

[Vekseid]

I don't mind the electoral college per se too much, but I do think state vote-bundling is ridiculous.

[Rozel]

I don't mind the electoral college per se too much, but I do think state vote-bundling is ridiculous.

Agreed.

I am not so certain that the US has so many checks and balances, least not as many as we hope they would. If that was the case, we wouldn't have deadlocked congresses and house issues.

lol But that is all personal opinion really.


I think sometimes we get too far away from simplicity and complicate that simplicity with what we think we want rather than what we have.

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate, we can not consecrate, we can not hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

[Oniya]

And perhaps equally as appropriate:

"With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow and his orphan - to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations."

[Bloodied Porcelain]

I didn't follow this thread or even read it. I DO, however, feel the need to go:


EEEEEEEEEEEE! MARYLAND PASSED GAY MARRIAGE! I'M SO PROUD OF MY STATE RIGHT NOW!!


*deep breath* I'm good.

[RubySlippers]

My take on this I'm glad the Affordable Care Act is now safe and the law of the land it gives Obama options to compel states to comply now, the simplest enact its tax fines and require the terms be followed on every insurance plan. If not its not suitable and should be fined for now having ACA mandated coverage and pay the premiums for the plan they do have on top of that. I suspect fines racking up and all that money not going to the hold-out states will force action to enact the ACA and expand Medicaid to get the Federal funds for that to some degree likely up to 100% of the poverty line (exchanges would be able to take the rest).

I voted for Obama largely to protect the ACA, so since that is done and its over - good - we can get and enact it and maybe later make changes to it as needed.

[Sex Bobomb]

I'm so disappointed in this Presidential election. After the four years we just trudged through, I had faith in the American people to vote for real change. Instead, "We, the people"  - sheeple - ... have voted for four more years of status quo; of no budget, of fiscal irresponsibility, of our bloating government usurping powers that are not delegated to it by our constitution. Four more years of hoping for change. Goodbye military, civil liberties, and good paying American jobs. Hello increased national debt, government mandated health care, sharia law, redistribution of our nation's wealth to the other nations of the world, and the undermining of our nation's foundation... our Constitution.

The Constitution of the United States of America is NOT fundamentally flawed, Mr. Obama. It is politicians like you who are fundamentally flawed, who think they can do it better than our founding fathers, who twist and pervert and disregard the principles of the greatest document ever authored by man. It is our non-representing representatives who serve only themselves and their whims and not "We the people" who are fundamentally flawed.

I tremble with fear for my country. God help us all.

Sensationalism at its finest. Unless you voted for Ron Paul, this would be the case under either candidate. A massive part of why we're in the mess to begin with is because of the two party system. Obama didn't have a perfect first term, but he inherited the god awful mess from Bush. No one president, no one party is at fault here. And to sit here and plainly say that out country should be afraid because Obama got a second term is completely disingenuous.

[Valerian]

Happily, Tammy Baldwin has defeated the maniacal Tommy Thompson for U.S. Senate.  Sanity has prevailed!  And even better, the Republicans didn't manage to nab her vacated congressional seat.     *dances*

As for the doom-sayers, living well is the best revenge.  If the rumors are true and the filibuster rules are going to be changed, then we might actually see some real change and improvement for Obama's second term.  Then the right-wing extremists will have to find something else to complain about.

[LunarSage]

Sensationalism at its finest. Unless you voted for Ron Paul, this would be the case under either candidate. A massive part of why we're in the mess to begin with is because of the two party system. Obama didn't have a perfect first term, but he inherited the god awful mess from Bush. No one president, no one party is at fault here. And to sit here and plainly say that out country should be afraid because Obama got a second term is completely disingenuous.

I would have voted for Ron Paul had he been the nominee.  I like his 'live and let live' policies.

[gaggedLouise]

Just heard this on the news:

"...the most tweeted about event in U.S. history"

True, no matter where in time you consider the event to have started - at the conventions, the first tv debate or tuesday morning.