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Author Topic: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?  (Read 4393 times)

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Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2012, 03:42:33 AM »
Although I'm not an American, I will tell you that most of the people here are hoping for Obama to get a second term. He's doing great things on the international level and personally I'm getting a bad vibe from Mitt Romney. Then again, the bad vibe isn't nearly as bad as when Bush Jr. did his thing, when he was president it really felt like the entire world was doomed (and, in my opinion, a certain degree it was).

It does suck that Obama didn't manage to get the economy running yet the way it's supposed to be, but on the other hand, what can you expect after 8 years of Bush? It's worrisome that he doesn't manage to get the budget under control though, and I hope he finds a solution for that. Either way, I hope that the USA will massively vote for Obama and that in the coming 4 years a new person will be found to take over after he's done.

+1. Being European myself I can pretty much vouch for every word she said; if Western and Central Europeans had been allowed a third of a vote each (just as a thought experiment here, mind you) then Obama (or Hillary Clinton) would have outclassed everybody else back in 2008. And it's true no one could know how deep the economic trough was going to be, or how much of a stalemate the GOP (mostly) would create in the congress. There's been so much eyerolling at this spectacle of a paralyzed senate around here.

But it's probably true, too, that this side of the pond we have a hard time understanding where somebody like Romney, or Bush or Palin, or Ross Perot, is coming from, what makes them fit in with U.S. perceptions of "how to do politics". And why people identify with them and their lives.  I agree Romney sounds like crass and that he's not "a man of the people", but from here it's even hard to get why he has the appeal he has, and I admit the obstacle is located within me, within us non-Americans, Europeans. I can understand why many people admire him as a businessman, even if he's done some really questionable things, but his political appeal to many millions of Americans is as confounding as that of Sarah Palin. They're being seen from a different set of baselines around here.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 04:00:27 AM by gaggedLouise »

Offline Stattick

Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2012, 11:16:38 AM »
It does suck that Obama didn't manage to get the economy running yet the way it's supposed to be, but on the other hand, what can you expect after 8 years of Bush? It's worrisome that he doesn't manage to get the budget under control though, and I hope he finds a solution for that. Either way, I hope that the USA will massively vote for Obama and that in the coming 4 years a new person will be found to take over after he's done.

The economy probably would have been doing reasonably well by now if it wasn't for the GOP. But their policy of obstructionism during this crisis has made things far worse. They gambled with the long term prospects of a recovery for the nation and entire world while grasping for short term political benefits. I don't think they care how dangerous the game is that game they've been playing. I don't think they realize how much enmity they've earned from people that have been paying attention. I used to consider myself a centrist. I've voted for Republicans. Hell, I even voted for Bush Jr's second term, thinking that he was the better choice because of the wars we were involved in (this was before it had become clear that his administration had lied to get us to invade Iraq, and that Iraq was an unnecessary war that was pulling men and resources from the real conflict in Afghanistan).

So, I'm no lefty liberal (although I have to be honest in find myself leaning further and further left these days). But what the GOP's done in the last few years in Congress since Obama's been elected? It's stupid, unprecedented, destructive, short sighted, damn near toppled the whole world into deep, uncontrolled depression, and was completely unnecessary. It's hard to put into words just how much the GOP's let me down, or how angry I am at them. I may very well go the rest of my life without voting for another Republican because of their actions these last four years. I don't think I'm the only one that feels that way either. I think that there are a lot of people who had otherwise mostly ignored politics who started paying attention when everything went to hell, who feel the same way I do about the GOP's "grind the government to a standstill" policy during the worst economic disaster since the Great Depression. I think there's a lot of people who saw the GOP stop job bills or negotiate recovery bills down to something far less effective than what they originally were. And I think that there's a lot of other people out there who have gone from feeling relatively neutral about the GOP to hating them. I'm not sure who in the Republican leadership decided that the obstructionism was a good idea, but my feeling and hope is that they've alienated millions of voters who, like me, will probably never vote for another Republican again.

I'm not sure why the Republicans would do something like this, unless I speculate that the Evangelical wing of the party has become so entrenched and powerful, that they managed to swing the party over to such damaging politics because they think we're living in the end times, and Jesus is going to make his encore appearance any day now. Maybe they know that in the real world, that their politics are suicidal, but that in the spiritual world, that their vengeful God requires no less than a slash and burn policy. It's the only scenario that I can think of that fits the facts, that the party has let itself fall under the sway of apocalyptic prophets, people who might just engineer events to bring us closer to the apocalypse they think needs to happen so their Messiah will return. And that, of course, is yet one more reason why no sane person should vote for them.

Offline Caitlin

Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2012, 12:21:49 PM »
I'm not sure if you want to hear this; but I strongly doubt that the Republicans have the people's best interest at heart. They're owned by lobby groups and why would they care how the economy is doing? As far as I know the majority of them are millionairs or made at least more than enough money already that they won't ever have to rely on a job like so many hard-working people do.

I support the idea of not having the government spend more money than it gains, but that's about all the values I share with Republicans. For everything else I'm in favour of the Democrats, who at least recognise that times have changed and that the old system doesn't work anymore. Their ideas to fix things aren't always the best solutions either, but at least they're trying to do something, which is a lot more than I can say from the Republicans. And this all comes from somebody who only casually follows American politics. To foreigners it's pretty clear to see what's going on, if the rest of the USA saw what we see they might consider voting for Republicans as well. My only real worry is that the Democrats don't have what it takes either to fix the system, there need to be fundamental changes that are going to hurt millions of people really badly. The way things are currently going is simply no longer sustainable, and slowly but surely we see the USA degrade to a second world, and in some parts even to a third world, country.

I've seen and read the articles about the homeless camps, compared to the slums of Rio de Janero there really isn't that much difference. To me it's unthinkable that college educated people have to live in such camps due the problems they ended up in. Part of it is their own mistake, for living on credit for too long a time, but for an at least equal part the system is to blame as well.

In my own case I have mortgage and a college debt I have to pay off and that's it. No outstanding debts anywhere. There is lots of stuff I want and could use, but I'll be damned if I take a loan so I could buy any of it. I'd rather take the slow secure way of saving up money, even though it'll take me a couple years longer to get all that I want. At least then I know that when I buy it the stuff will be mine, and I doesn't cost me an arm and a leg to pay off a loan.

Ahem... I didn't mean to turn this into a rant, hehe. The situation here isn't exactly great either, but my country is at least still doing well and among the best performing economies in Europe. We have some major issues to solve here as well though.

Offline Vekseid

Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2012, 02:10:01 PM »
Their own mistake for getting sick? Or for getting laid off in a liquidity trap?

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Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2012, 02:22:45 PM »
Credit is a sneaky thing.  When Mr. Oniya and I bought our first house, I had almost no credit history.  The only thing on my record was a Kirby vacuum cleaner that I'd paid for in automatic installments.  That was just as much of a red flag to the real estate people as the store credit card that Mr. Oniya had nearly gone to collections for (but that we paid off before entering into the house-buying thing.)

Offline Caitlin

Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2012, 03:02:14 PM »
Their own mistake for getting sick? Or for getting laid off in a liquidity trap?
Of course you can't blame people for getting sick or laid off. There are, however, plenty of people living with several maxed out credit cards and who then get a new credit card just to pay of the interest on their previous cards. You'll end up in a never ending circle that way with as only outcome bankruptcy. Some of my American friends did so, while having a decent job and not being ill, for the simple reason so they could buy more things. From what I saw this wasn't all that uncommon before the crisis hit. I can understand that people still do the same now, but then to make ends meet or to pay the hospital bill if they get ill.

I do think that people also have their own responsibility to stay healthy though, which means no smoking, limiting the use of alcohol and other intoxicants, cutting down on sugar, in general cutting down on food that has high amounts of calories, and a minimum amount of daily exercise. A lot of the health issues can be avoided in our society by simply living healthier. According to the research I read yesterday, 35% of the Americans are currently obese and the estimates are that this will be 50% by 2030. Personally I find that very worrisome, the health costs will sky rocket in the USA in the future and the work efficiency will decrease, which in turn means that the American economy won't be as competing with other world economies. Considering the USA's tendency to import more than they export this will mean a big problem. You're gonna end up relying on the rest of the world to produce for you, while you won't be able to generate the required income to pay for it all.

To clarify my earlier point; with mistakes I meant spending more money than you have, on items that aren't basic essentials to stay alive. (Hospitals, food and non-luxury clothing are part of those basic essentials, whereas an SUV, 3D television or iPhone isn't.)

Offline Vekseid

Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2012, 03:20:59 PM »
Draw the figures. How many people are that truly irresponsible with credit, out of the two million homeless, compared to people with medical bankruptcies?

One of my favorite things about the whole "Cut down on sugar bit, rice is cheap!" - where are these people going to cook their rice? Or pasta?

There's a pretty strong correlation between poverty and quality of diet. Same with quality of education.

Offline Caitlin

Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2012, 03:53:22 PM »
You're right yes, and I won't claim to have all the answers either. Still, the current numbers I read about are pretty worrisome either way. That 35% I mentioned doesn't equal all the homeless, the vast majority of it has their own place to live and to cook.

For those who are bankrupt and homeless I don't really have any ideas how to help them either. I read the articles and I find it very sad how it got that far, but with the way the system currently works I don't know what could be done to help them get back on their feet either.

There is, however, no excuse for not getting more exercise. Something as simple as walking to places that are less than 2 miles from your house, rather than taking the car, can do miracles already when done consistently. Getting exercise doesn't mean you have to join a gym or go jogging, but simply walking more than always taking the car can help already too.

Offline mia hTopic starter

Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2012, 04:27:45 PM »
There are, however, plenty of people living with several maxed out credit cards and who then get a new credit card just to pay of the interest on their previous cards.
Well there's 3 "people" to blame for that; the person taking out the credit card, the bank for letting them have the credit card, the government not putting in the right regulation in place to stop the bank. All of them need to take responsiblity but it's easier to play blame around that way nothing actually changes.

I do think that people also have their own responsibility to stay healthy though, which means no smoking, limiting the use of alcohol and other intoxicants, cutting down on sugar, in general cutting down on food that has high amounts of calories, and a minimum amount of daily exercise. A lot of the health issues can be avoided in our society by simply living healthier.
Don't know if you've ever seen "Supersize Me" but it's worth a watch if you haven't. Low income families by fast food because it's cheap and they can actually afford it, but it's also full of sugar and all other kinds of junk. Same goes in supermarkets, cheap food is pumped full of sugar and preservatives but if you've got a choice between a lousy diet and no diet, it's not really a hard choice.

According to the research I read yesterday, 35% of the Americans are currently obese and the estimates are that this will be 50% by 2030.
And that's not going to change as along as the health system is focused on treatment and not prevention. Not all doctors, but most get payments for every test and examination they do, it's in there financial interests for more people to be ill and for them to order more tests and hand out more prescriptions than they need to. There was a survey of doctors a while back zero or close to zero admitted to giving unnessescary tests etc. but 60% of those surveyed knew of "other" doctors that would regularly perform extra tests, give extra prescriptions etc.
Take the kick-backs out of the system and maybe something can be done about that 35%

Offline Caitlin

Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2012, 04:41:28 PM »
Quote
And that's not going to change as along as the health system is focused on treatment and not prevention. Not all doctors, but most get payments for every test and examination they do, it's in there financial interests for more people to be ill and for them to order more tests and hand out more prescriptions than they need to. There was a survey of doctors a while back zero or close to zero admitted to giving unnessescary tests etc. but 60% of those surveyed knew of "other" doctors that would regularly perform extra tests, give extra prescriptions etc.
Take the kick-backs out of the system and maybe something can be done about that 35%
Very true all, I read another research about that about 1.5 months ago. The current health system in the USA is so messed up that you pay 3x more than what somebody in France has to pay, for the same procedures, and twice as much as somebody in Germany (I'm not sure if I remember the figures right, but it was something like that). They managed to draw a correlation that if the health care was cheaper the ecomony itself would get such a giant boost that it might resolve the crisis already. Right now people are getting by, but if they get ill and don't have a good insurance they're pretty much screwed.

Actually, I believe that research was posted on E and either in off topic or in this sub forum. It was pretty bad to read how it works in the USA and I'm really glad that the system is very different here. This year I'd pay 220 euros max, next year the goverment made some changes and it'd slightly over 300 euros, but still not terrible. (Well, unless you're on a lower income, but even then it's affordable and doesn't causeyou to go bankrupt.)

Offline Serephino

Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2012, 05:16:38 PM »
Personally, I really don't like being written off.  I don't pay income tax because I'm on disability; something no one will help me fix by the way.  Because, you know, I'd need long term treatment, and Social Security is barely giving me enough to live off of.  The only Psychiatrist in my area is a dumbass that really shouldn't have a license because he doesn't know a true mental illness from his own ass.  A medication was making me compulsively suicidal to the point I couldn't be left alone, and he told me to keep taking it... 

Yes, this is the level of care I get.  I'm sorry, but if you want me to work and contribute, I need better care than that.  Mitt Romney may think it's an entitlement, but that is extremely short sighted.  People who have access to better care will be more productive.  You can't work if you're sick all the time, or just getting a little lost causes you to break down into tears. 

I honestly don't know why a large part of the population hasn't gotten sick of being taken for granted.  Hardly any campaign focus is being given to traditionally red or blue states.  This is a problem on both sides.  Romney knows he's going to win Texas, so to hell with them.  His campaign dollars are better spent bombarding us here in Pennsylvania because we don't always vote consistently.  President Obama knows he's going to win (insert blue state here) so why waste the money?  That wouldn't sit too well with me.

Also, in public he said he could have worded things better.  Of course he could.  Of that I have no doubt; reason being he'd have speech writers and PR people ready to make everything sound pretty.  People are the most honest when they don't think anyone is watching.  He thought he was just talking to his allies, so his guard was down.  Whoever recorded and posted that sure got him by the short ones.  He can't deny it because it's on tape.  If he tries to twist out of it he'll piss off the buddies he was talking to, because he's either an outright liar, or fair weather friend.  He's kinda both, but he wants that kept his little secret I think. 

I also do believe he was only talking in terms of a target audience.  In my English class when doing persuasive writing the teacher said your target is the people on the fence.  Speaking to those already on your side is a waste of breath because they're already with you.  Speaking to those already pretty firmly against you is a waste of time and energy too.  You may get lucky and change the minds of a few that are open enough to listen, but those firmly on the other side aren't likely to budge.  It is those that haven't come to a firm decision one way or another that you want to go after.

My problem with what he said is the way he said it.  If you don't pay income tax you're nothing more than a leech that believes the government has a responsibility to ensure your well being.  I mean, really, if you can't afford things like food and shelter because of the wrecked economy, oh well.  You should just be left to die because the government owes you nothing.  You only think it does, and therefore are guaranteed to vote for President Obama to ensure you continue getting these entitlements for at least another 4 years.  Also, his numbers are wrong.  My boyfriend works part time at Walmart.  I've seen his pay stubs.  He gets state taxes taken out, but gets nothing back.  Also, if I take his last refund and divide it by 24, then compare that to how much is taken out of each check for federal income, the numbers don't match.  He gets most of it back, but not all of it.

Even though I'm registered as a Democrat, I've been known to vote for Republicans if I like what they have to say.  I just haven't liked anything a Republican has said since the Tea Party took over.  I would really like to see those people go away.           

Offline mia hTopic starter

Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2012, 05:30:49 PM »
If you don't pay income tax you're nothing more than a leech that believes the government has a responsibility to ensure your well being.

Saw something earlier today that had done the numbers, Romney has basically written off 76 million people as being worthless. Which includes 150,000 people that earn more than $500,000 a year but don't pay 1 cent of Federal income tax, who knows some of them might have been in the room with Mitt. It also includes all US troops stationed oversea in receipt of combat pay *shakes angry fist at troops in Afghanistan* "You leeches!!!"

Offline Vekseid

Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2012, 05:43:06 PM »
I have no idea how Romney expects to handle the debates.

Offline LunarSage

Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2012, 06:32:35 PM »
I've heard Romney and Obama get their funding from the same sources.  Is it possible that this was all an elaborate scheme to make sure that Obama is viewed as the "only choice"? 

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2012, 07:08:37 PM »
I have no idea how Romney expects to handle the debates.

I suppose he'll try to portray Obama as a weak guy who won't stand up to the Chinese and Iranians. to unions and to organized crime.

I've heard Romney and Obama get their funding from the same sources.  Is it possible that this was all an elaborate scheme to make sure that Obama is viewed as the "only choice"? 

??? No - I don't see any sponsor trying such a self-defeating strategy. Some corporations and pressure groups provide money to both candidates to be sure of some result no matter who wins, but why would they want to kill Romney off in this way?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 07:13:52 PM by gaggedLouise »

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #40 on: September 19, 2012, 07:09:18 PM »
I've heard Romney and Obama get their funding from the same sources.  Is it possible that this was all an elaborate scheme to make sure that Obama is viewed as the "only choice"?

A lot of people 'double dip' as in making sure that the 'winner' knows they helped out.


Offline Stattick

Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2012, 07:20:39 PM »
I've heard Romney and Obama get their funding from the same sources. 

No. Not even close. Most of Romney's funding comes from the monied elite and big corporations. Most of Obama's funding comes from poor and middle classed people giving what they can. That's why for most of this election cycle, Romney's out raised Obama by a wide margin. So far as I've heard, no one's offered to give $100 million to Obama, but Romney gets offers like that.

Quote
Is it possible that this was all an elaborate scheme to make sure that Obama is viewed as the "only choice"?

No. Just no. Might as well join the guy that thinks the Trilateral Commission, Bilderbergs, and grey aliens are calling the shots in a vast Satanic conspiracy to bring about armageddon so the Aliens can sell our delicious organ meats on the intergalactic black market.

Offline LunarSage

Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #42 on: September 19, 2012, 07:31:01 PM »
Meh.  I still think whoever wins, the American people lose.

That's all I'm gonna say about that.

Offline Stattick

Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #43 on: September 19, 2012, 08:46:15 PM »
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 08:56:55 PM by Stattick »

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #44 on: September 20, 2012, 02:48:01 AM »
That may have been what he was thinking when he said that -- inasmuch as he was thinking at all -- but it still highlights a fundamental problem with his views.  Romney, like a lot of politicians (on both sides, though more so on the right in my opinion), thinks of getting elected as his job, not serving his constituents.

You don't get it do you?  That IS his job.  That's ALL he has to do.  He doesn't serve anyone except himself.  That's what ALL politicians do.  They CANNOT 'serve their constituents' because they are literally all over the map, both politically, and in terms of geography.  A farmer in Oklahoma is not going to have the same wants and needs as a lawyer in New York, a teacher in Seattle or taxi driver in San Diego.  In fact, it might even be diametrically opposed.  But Obama and Romney don't care.  They can't care.  You, the voter, are a faceless mob.  Not an individual with individual needs, cares and problems, one giant mass of thoughtless flesh, to be shouted at and vaguely promised stuff that is feasibly impossible.  And as long as they get IN for those four years, then it's all good!  They're done, they just have to show up from time to time, smile for the camera and make nice to the crowd.

Politics is possible the biggest scam in the world.  Has no one noticed who have been voted into the various political offices?  I mean, in the 80's (from 81 to 89) you had Ronald Reagan.  Who was an ACTOR.  Both Television and Movies.  Not a leader of men, but a liar trained in the arts of make believe.  This is the type of person that's a good choice to LEAD a country of MILLIONS?  And yet, he was elected TWICE.

Arnold Schwarzenegger, a renowned body builder and actor got to be GOVERNOR of California.  He wasn't a leader, he just played several in films.  This is what should be leading people?  I came across a cute little article in a local paper claiming that 36% of Americans want George Clooney to run for office.  GEORGE FUCKING CLOONEY.  Not to mention that football star Tim Tebow is apparently considering a career in politics after life in American football.

(For those curious here's the link:  http://www.wellandtribune.ca/2012/09/17/americans-vote-for-george-clooney-in-political-poll )

None of these people had training in any of the political sciences, and yet they get elected.  Why?  Because they're pretty, or charismatic, not because they're capable.  And it's not the U.S. that does it either.  The European countries are no better at this.  And I'm pretty sure everywhere else does it too.

And does no one EVER notice that there's always something on the news about how so and so who got elected didn't keep their promises during the election?  That the news repeat year after bloody year?  Election after freaking election?  No one at all?  And you wonder why?  Because they CAN'T.  It's economically and politically impossible to do so for the vast majority, but no one cares.

For those of you who believe that Corporate 'America' runs the country by bribing politicians are only half right.  They are bribing people, but NOT the big politicians, it's the little guys, the guys in the party that are there for 20-30 years of their lives, making things move behind the scenes.  Obama, Romney, the Governors, and any other political 'face' are simply mouth pieces to say whatever they need to say to keep their 'party' in power for as long as possible.

Does anyone really believe that 4 years is enough time to actually RULE a nation of several million people?  Honestly?

Politicians WILL LIE, CHEAT, STEAL and ANYTHING ELSE they have to do to get YOU, the Voter, to give them a nice fat paycheck month after month.  That is it, that is all.

Don't ask me how to fix it, because at this point I don't think anyone can.  The snowball is just too big, and it's getting bigger the longer it goes down that slope.

Apologies to Valerian and anyone else I've upset with this rant.

Offline Caitlin

Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #45 on: September 20, 2012, 03:22:04 AM »
I have to disagree with your rant, although politicians have their self-interest at heart, which I do agree with, there are still universal values that count for everybody. Everybody should have a place to live and have enough food to eat, everybody should have access to basic healthcare when they need so, everybody has the right to get an education. Both the farmer in Oklahoma and the lawyer in New York want at least that much. A government should provide in those basic needs, especially in First World countries.

It's like those aid programs for Africa; you can either give people food, or teach them how to take care of themselves. A government should help its citizens to at least a basic place to life, sufficient money to buy food and have enough schools to follow an education. At the same time people should not expect to live in mansions, eat royal dinners or study at a top 100 university, but I don't think that the majority of the low incomes have such expectations of their government anyway.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2012, 04:34:39 AM »
And no one has promised to take those 'universal values' away, have they?  In fact, even if they do, it's pretty much protected by society, anyway.  Given that sort of rhetoric would get them lynched, before the entire country in question (and that's ANY country that has any sort of welfare system in place.)

So they never will threaten that, they'll just promise you everything, as long as it gets them in office.

And it seriously doesn't worry you that we have actors in the role of President?

Here's a cute fact:  Back when Reagan was running against Jimmy Carter, during one debate, Carter's office told Reagan's to not stand beside him, unless on the podium.  Why?  Because Jimmy Carter was only 5' 9" tall, compared to Reagan's 6' 1".  And Carter's office was afraid that if the American people saw that, Carter would lose the '81 election.  Because short men are not seen as leaders.

So after the debate, while the cameras were still rolling, Reagan steps away from the podium to shake Carter's hand.  And guess who won that election?

Offline Caitlin

Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2012, 04:49:35 AM »
Well, it won't be my president since I have a queen, but to be honest actors themselves might not even be a bad choice. For example, you overlook the fact that Arnold is also a great businessman and achieved many other things in his life. He may be primarily known as an actor, but he also has other valuable skills. I don't know what else Reagan did, but I do know that it went beyond the ability to play a role on television.

Personally I'd rather see somebody lead a country who has some achievements on his name than the local janitor who makes a mess out of his life. There are thousands of actors out there and it's hard to break through in the business and become really successful. The fact that they managed to break through in the first place means they have the qualities to succeed. In general it's good to have somebody with such qualities in control of a country, since you're more likely to succeed than, compared to having somebody lead who didn't achieve anything noteworthy.

I do admit that people aren't only chosen for their skills and that not each candidate makes the best choice. Charisma and looks often play a greater role than they should and it doesn't mean that you'll end up with the best possible leader. On the other hand, the best possible leaders might not even be interested in the job, since they can get something better elsewhere. If I were offered to become the next POTUS I'd probably politely decline. I don't want to be in the publicity 24/7 and carry all the responsibility that comes with the job. I'd much rather live a more laid back life outside the spotlights.

Offline Will

Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2012, 12:26:54 PM »
The 47% thing was really just one part of the video.  To be fair, the whole thing is a trainwreck of foot-in-mouth disease.  He even voiced concerns that people might get tired of his wife.

Uh... care to rephrase that, Mr. Romney?

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Romney : telling it like it is or blowing the election?
« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2012, 12:35:06 PM »
The 47% thing was really just one part of the video.  To be fair, the whole thing is a trainwreck of foot-in-mouth disease.  He even voiced concerns that people might get tired of his wife.

Uh... care to rephrase that, Mr. Romney?

You got to admit..she seems a bit.. meek at times. (My opinion.. of course it might be the campaign keeping her privacy..which I can respect. I don't think that family is a big deal normally in the run)