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Author Topic: GM Help/Advice?  (Read 1320 times)

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Offline InvertedAgonyTopic starter

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GM Help/Advice?
« on: August 16, 2012, 05:29:43 PM »
Hello. I am guessing I would ask here the questions I have but if they do not belong here, just let me know... Still new to the site layout @_@

Okay, so I love to role-play but I've never gotten into table-top like D&D which use dice and all that-- I have played many, many MMORPGs and RPGs but I have mostly role-played in a free-form setting where there was only the Typists writing out scenes, reactions, etc on top of the character sheets not having: HP #s, etc... only they were so-so, this race, their skills, weaknesses, and much more; never anything detailed like a D&D char sheet would show...

I will say now too that I am working on a draft for a possible RP to put up here in E and other forums, but since I have a feeling this type of RP may, may require the use of a DICE system on top of free-form writing (and the trust of fellow RP'ers), I am hoping to find someone who may want to be a possible Co-GM to help guide me and teach me more to GM than I may already know.

This brings us to my questions I hope to have answered.

1. What are some good sites to reference in regards to Character Attributes? i.e., HP, MP, Constitution, Luck, etc...
2. What are good sites for learning more about GM'ing and how to make a decent RP move along decently? (I've been a "GM" on other sites and am a Writer in Real Life, but even I still would like hints and tips)
3. How many people would be interested (even remotely) in an RP that is set in an MMORPG-like world? (Since this is my RP idea thanks to several games and shows recently).
4. Where all besides E could I go to refer to DICE systems? (aside from wikipedia... links would be appreciated ^~^)


That is all of my questions for now. I apologize again if this is not where this should have been placed. Any help at all would be much appreciated. Please not only comment, but feel free to get in touch with me if you like. I'd like to learn new things and even how to get a new kind of RP (genre for me personally) started, or at least thought of.

Thank you,
~IA, AKA, Riku

Offline Thufir Hawat

Re: GM Help/Advice?
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2012, 06:58:08 AM »
This brings us to my questions I hope to have answered.

1. What are some good sites to reference in regards to Character Attributes? i.e., HP, MP, Constitution, Luck, etc...
2. What are good sites for learning more about GM'ing and how to make a decent RP move along decently? (I've been a "GM" on other sites and am a Writer in Real Life, but even I still would like hints and tips)
3. How many people would be interested (even remotely) in an RP that is set in an MMORPG-like world? (Since this is my RP idea thanks to several games and shows recently).
4. Where all besides E could I go to refer to DICE systems? (aside from wikipedia... links would be appreciated ^~^)
Here are some quick answers.
  • Not sure I get the question. Are you asking about a site that contains rules? They're usually in PDFs, not on sites. But it would help us to know more about your idea in order to recommend a system that fits. Just how much MMO tropes you want and which ones?
  • That depends on what you want to play. Generally, most systems come with advice how to GM them properly (the quality varies from outstanding to outrageously bad).
  • I have no idea. Define "MMORPG-like world"? It might mean something different to you than it means to me.
  • If you have any questions about dice-based systems, just go to RPG.net and start a thread. Generally, you're bound to get several answers in the first hour only ;D! Granted, many of them might be "need more info", so describe your idea.
Hope that helps 8-)!

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Re: GM Help/Advice?
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2012, 09:58:47 AM »
The idea I have is to make an RP in which the characters are in an MMORPG; i.e., .Hack/Sign & .Hack/G.U., Sword Art Online and when I get an idea like this I get into detail but I'd like to narrow down how many attributes to put in; i.e., Constitution, Luck, Perception, etc... I'd like to fit things into as few categories as possible just so it doesn't look like a lot and it doesn't take up unnecessary space. One instance being what I found on Wikipedia.org: Wikipedia.org, Attribute (role-playing games) Though thinking about it now I may just follow the examples of one of them on that page, not too sure yet.

I'm asking about GM'ing because I've never really GMed a game truly. Yes, I threw out many plots and arcs, but I have always felt that the others Players did the same as well to help keep the RP interesting and going. So for me they seemed like Co-Gm's as well (does that make sense? ._.)
I guess my thing is that I feel more comfortable with just giving an outline and basic idea, not saying to the Players: "Okay. Here's how it will go today. Here's the setting, here's what will be coming your Character's way; act accordingly." when instead I'd rather just describe the setting and set the mood then have things go in whichever direction they go via each Player playing their Character like their Character should be played (in the Player's eyes).

Thank you. I will check that place out, though if I could get help here, I'd appreciate it since I have never done an RP like this on forums; only IM or clients like IMVU where it is real-time and the only waiting time is when the next Player is posting back to the previous Player's post. I am asking about an idea or suggestion on DICE-based systems because I do not know if it would be the fairest way to use a combat system either when a PC fights a Monster or another PC -- like in an Arena such as in .Hack/G.U.
This idea is still in the works and I have help from my fiance as well as a few friends, but I'd like help from others who have played table-top too since I feel this kind of RP will be needing some sort of base system to use next to a Story-telling one where all Players come together to form an entertaining story that can run for some time; not fizzle out after the first week.

I hope this helps explain some more of why I am asking these questions ._. also, if it's any consolation... I'm working on a slight bestiary and potion/poison list to go with it too... Ingredients included lol... as well as other details/rules since I'd like this RP to start out slow and, umm, basic? Like Characters start at level 1 or can only start the RP off at level 10 or something just so there can be progressive story to it and not just, "Oh well my charter, Blade, is level 50, has a full set of 5 star quality armor and a broadsword to add, and here's the attributes of his ATT & DEF, etc..."

Offline Thufir Hawat

Re: GM Help/Advice?
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2012, 12:22:52 PM »
The idea I have is to make an RP in which the characters are in an MMORPG; i.e., .Hack/Sign & .Hack/G.U., Sword Art Online and when I get an idea like this I get into detail but I'd like to narrow down how many attributes to put in; i.e., Constitution, Luck, Perception, etc... I'd like to fit things into as few categories as possible just so it doesn't look like a lot and it doesn't take up unnecessary space.
That makes sense. But then, just having the attributes is not enough, you've got to know how these are going to be used!
Let's see your other points, and we're going to get back to it.

Quote
One instance being what I found on Wikipedia.org: Wikipedia.org, Attribute (role-playing games) Though thinking about it now I may just follow the examples of one of them on that page, not too sure yet.
Yes, it makes sense to use one of those (Tri-stat dX is even free).
The question here is, how much numbers do you want on the character sheet? How much other rules-related stuff?
Let's see all of it.

Quote
I'm asking about GM'ing because I've never really GMed a game truly. Yes, I threw out many plots and arcs, but I have always felt that the others Players did the same as well to help keep the RP interesting and going. So for me they seemed like Co-Gm's as well (does that make sense? ._.)
That makes sense, if I'm understanding right what you're saying.
Comments
Now, in most system games of the "traditional" kind, the GM is the only one that controls the NPCs and setting. If that's what you mean, I agree - when everybody can control NPCs, people are largely co-GMs.
OTOH, even in these games, the GM isn't supposed to be the only one throwing plots and arcs! Well, at least that would be poor GMing in my book, but of course, YMMV. I mean, to be the only one throwing out plots and arcs, you'd need to block every player action that achieves major impact without being part of your plan!
That's what I GM most often, and the players are still expected to add their own plots and arcs, by their characters' actions. And let's not even go into less traditional systems which might allow the players to directly influence the setting or NPCs. Or there might be no GM at all ;D!

Quote
I guess my thing is that I feel more comfortable with just giving an outline and basic idea, not saying to the Players: "Okay. Here's how it will go today. Here's the setting, here's what will be coming your Character's way; act accordingly." when instead I'd rather just describe the setting and set the mood then have things go in whichever direction they go via each Player playing their Character like their Character should be played (in the Player's eyes).
These things don't contradict each other. No matter whether I'm the one that picks what comes our way, I'd be playing my character as the character should be played in my eyes ;).

Quote
Thank you. I will check that place out, though if I could get help here, I'd appreciate it since I have never done an RP like this on forums; only IM or clients like IMVU where it is real-time and the only waiting time is when the next Player is posting back to the previous Player's post. I am asking about an idea or suggestion on DICE-based systems because I do not know if it would be the fairest way to use a combat system either when a PC fights a Monster or another PC -- like in an Arena such as in .Hack/G.U.
Well, the advantage of asking on RPG.net instead of here is that you'd have several pages of replies by now, and more than my point of view ;).
Generally, the point of using a system is to resolve conflicts in an impartial way. So yes, I'd say it's the fairest way (and other people are going to disagree).

Quote
This idea is still in the works and I have help from my fiance as well as a few friends, but I'd like help from others who have played table-top too since I feel this kind of RP will be needing some sort of base system to use next to a Story-telling one where all Players come together to form an entertaining story that can run for some time; not fizzle out after the first week.
Generally, I agree.

Quote
I hope this helps explain some more of why I am asking these questions ._. also, if it's any consolation... I'm working on a slight bestiary and potion/poison list to go with it too... Ingredients included lol... as well as other details/rules since I'd like this RP to start out slow and, umm, basic? Like Characters start at level 1 or can only start the RP off at level 10 or something just so there can be progressive story to it and not just, "Oh well my charter, Blade, is level 50, has a full set of 5 star quality armor and a broadsword to add, and here's the attributes of his ATT & DEF, etc..."
;D
Of course, you've gotta earn that experience 8-)!

So, I promised you earlier in that wall of text post I'd come back to your questions, didn't I?
But first, I need to have one question. Are you looking for a game that simulates the characters, or simulates the players behind the characters and assumes the character's abilities depends on the qualities of the players :P? Some of these shows totally made allienation far more important than the character's ability to cut a dragon in twain! And yes, there are such systems.
Re-reading your post, it seems you want something that simulates the characters, not players. Fine, let's go with that, just to save on the time needed to wait for a reply on a forum.

So, we're looking for a game that's fits the following criteria.
  • Not heavy on attributes and skills, seems like there isn't much to do.
  • Probably class-based (blargh!), since most MMOs are.
  • Allows for customisation of races and classes.
  • Includes copious amounts of magical items for the players to peruse.
  • Probably gives you XP for fighting beasts in the game and not for story quests.
  • Probably some sort of meta-game resource with limited, mostly combat-related effects, to reflect the players of the characters learning how to use the interface better and coming to grips with themselves.

Am I missing anything >:)? Of course, I'm only going to recommend games you can acquire legally and free.

In this case, I'd say you're looking for an old-school game. Well, sure, but which one also matters.
My first idea was for an OSR game. They fit all the requirements, and the better ones explain how to create magic items. So there's that.
However, most I'm familiar with have two failings which are crucial for this game. First, most have you acquiring XP by gaining money. Yes, avoiding the ogre and the orcs and robbing their underground lairs is optimal. Also, no meta-game stats.
I'm not an expert in those, but OSRIC is available online, and the more "classical style" Mazes&Minothaurs can be found online as well.
However, something didn't fit. Imagining playing one of them doesn't feel like playing an MMORPG to me.
Guess why I was asking about more details about your idea? Because it might be totally what you were looking for, and I wouldn't have needed to keep writing.

My next idea was Tunnels and Trolls. The Quickstart can be found here.
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/54407/Tunnels-%26-Trolls-Free-Rulebook
However, this would rely on you creating equipment for them. Again no meta-points, but you could add them, if you're adding so much content, after all!
The reason I bothered posting it is that T&T kinda assumes constantly upgrading your weapons and armour, as soon as you get good enough stats to use better ones. That's an MMO trope if I've ever seen one.
Also, the different Saves make a new GM's life easy ;D!

But, maybe you want all in one package, and could well stand a bit more numbers on the character sheet?
The Mini Six rules are short and sweet, IMO. Granted, the character sheet is a bit longer, but it's easy to use in play. And the system has always assumed you have meta-points. Just give them for successfully establishing better relationships with other player characters and NPCs, on top of the suggestions in the book.
Again, that depends on your tolerance for rules. To me, the only drawback is, it's not class-based...and I don't see that as a drawback at all ;D!

I might recommend also FATE for the more narrative approach, or Dominion Rules v3 because I just like it. But now that I think of it, if I had to do this, I'd run it with Dungeon World for a more "narrative" style. Read the article and I'm sure you'd understand >:)!

So, here are some suggestions for rules that you might use with minor modifications. Hope that helps.

And now go to RPG.net and open a thread, if you need something else. You're bound to get much more suggestions than that in the first hour alone ;D!
« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 01:27:15 PM by Thufir Hawat »

Offline InvertedAgonyTopic starter

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Re: GM Help/Advice?
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2012, 02:26:31 PM »
That makes sense. But then, just having the attributes is not enough, you've got to know how these are going to be used!
Let's see your other points, and we're going to get back to it.

Right. I'm pulling from many different MMORPG-styled games. So far I have the following attributes:
ATT- Attack
DEF- Defense
DEX- Dexterity
INT- Intelligence
LUK- Luck
PER- Perception
RES- Resistance
STR- Strength
SNK- Sneaking

^--- The 'sneaking' comes from Sword Art online, just as the 'listening skill' is in the PER attribute does too. Within each of these I've given a small description of what each determines; i.e., for ATT it determines a PC's ability to hit a creature or other PC but also their chance of hitting them too. We've played games I am sure where we've worked hard and got the ATT so high that our Character was capable of hitting something more than 3 times before a 'miss' would occur.
This comes in with each one as well as within the RES section. Here, it depicts a PC's resiliance to physical damage, non-physical, elemental, and even status ailment effects; i.e., Sleep, Poison, Slow, Paralysis...
And since I find the idea SAO introduced where there is no 'magic' whatsoever but instead "Sword Skills" I am using that as a basis for this idea as well and with that there is no Priest class or anything 'magical' in it (except for alchemized items/enchanted like I've seen in SAO so far).


Yes, it makes sense to use one of those (Tri-stat dX is even free).
The question here is, how much numbers do you want on the character sheet? How much other rules-related stuff?

Well so far the Char Sheet (For the actual in-game version of the Characters) would have all stated above attribute-wise, their Race (which would be Human for now), a list of Skills and an equipment list detailing the weapon & armor, HP/SP, Level, etc...


Comments
Now, in most system games of the "traditional" kind, the GM is the only one that controls the NPCs and setting. If that's what you mean, I agree - when everybody can control NPCs, people are largely co-GMs.
OTOH, even in these games, the GM isn't supposed to be the only one throwing plots and arcs! Well, at least that would be poor GMing in my book, but of course, YMMV. I mean, to be the only one throwing out plots and arcs, you'd need to block every player action that achieves major impact without being part of your plan!
That's what I GM most often, and the players are still expected to add their own plots and arcs, by their characters' actions. And let's not even go into less traditional systems which might allow the players to directly influence the setting or NPCs. Or there might be no GM at all ;D!

That is exactly what I meant. I do not think I could personally play a GM and -run- everything which would then limit a Player from being able to do much PC-wise. Sure, I'll give out a general idea of where I think the Plot should go; i.e., maybe it should lead up to discover why a Player goes into a coma if their in-game self is killed (reference from .Hack//Sign)
But that is all, not, "Here's where the Plot needs to end and here's how it's going to meet that requirement."

With that being said, I can also say that I love the idea of the other Players being Co-GM's too because for me, personally, I can talk to them about ideas for side arcs (plots), ideas for the main plot itself, or something else -- especially feedback if the game is progressing too fast or too slow; what can we do as a Team to get it "just right" and so on. So really, in actuality, I look forward to talking to the members and making a good story line together


So, I promised you earlier in that wall of text post I'd come back to your questions, didn't I?
But first, I need to have one question. Are you looking for a game that simulates the characters, or simulates the players behind the characters and assumes the character's abilities depends on the qualities of the players :P?

Good question ^~^ in this RP I am looking to have the Player play their virtual game self but also there will be a more RL aspect too (think .Hack/Sign how a Player fell into a coma after their PC died). So the RP will not just be limited to a virtual game setting, but it will also take a look into that Player's character who plays the in-game character; i.e., let's say my character I play in this RP is called Jim but in this virtual world he goes by Bloodhound, a level 32 Rogue. (does that help make things understandable? ._.)

Some of these shows totally made allienation far more important than the character's ability to cut a dragon in twain!

I agree with you there and maybe that is also why I love shows like these -- because they provide truthful life lessons that are more truthful than idealistic :)

So, we're looking for a game that's fits the following criteria.
  • Not heavy on attributes and skills, seems like there isn't much to do.
  • Probably class-based (blargh!), since most MMOs are.
  • Allows for customisation of races and classes.
  • Includes copious amounts of magical items for the players to peruse.
  • Probably gives you XP for fighting beasts in the game and not for story quests.
  • Probably some sort of meta-game resource with limited, mostly combat-related effects, to reflect the players of the characters learning how to use the interface better and coming to grips with themselves.

~Nods.~ Yes. I am trying to make a game where people get the general idea that this RP is basically an MMORPG where they create 2 characters to play: 1) the Real character, the Player; 2) the in-game, MMO character and they play the two interchangably. As I said earlier this RP will not just be based around the virtual aspect but also the real aspect; the character's do not sit home all day playing the game but rather they have a life to tend to as well; school, work, family, friends, etc...

Yes, the virtual game will have several classes to choose from and possibly more than one type of Race to choose from (sorry >:p and as I said, too, only Human race for now)
There will be customization for the virtual character in terms of their appearance, equipment looks, and maybe even the possibility of dual-classing (like Rift introduced, but that is a possibility for the future, not now)

Since there is no magical skills in this RP, the only magic is, as I stated before from what I saw in SAO, items that can be bought or found in dungeons/field; i.e., a Bangle that grants the user +5 to HP

For the combat, should this be attempted in a forum style, some sort of DICE system would be nice just to help reduce any PvP issues that may occur (should a PC and PC do an Arena match that is/one PC is a PK, the other is not) otherwise I am going solely off the trust from one Role-player to the next (see the link to the "Oath of the Drake" in my siggy :3)

As for gaining XP, it'd be like any other MMORPG. Kill a monster, get 'x' amount of money and XP; complete a quest, get 'x' amount of money, XP, and even an item or stat point.
If I could find a -free- Character Builder site, I'd be better off (lmao) just so there was a basis to create a more fair environment between Players for this type of RP.

However, something didn't fit. Imagining playing one of them doesn't feel like playing an MMORPG to me.
Guess why I was asking about more details about your idea? Because it might be totally what you were looking for, and I wouldn't have needed to keep writing.

o.o ...oro? I think I see what you are getting at, but I may need a bit more explanation. You are saying that by playing a role in which you play a virtual character (see my example for Bloodhound above) that it wouldn't feel like an MMO to you?
As for more details, those are all in the works and with your replies so far it's been helping me relax and think things through smoothly and a little more slowly so I thank you much ^~^

Also thank you so much for all the links you referenced. I will check them out when I can. Yes, I cannot stand too many rules, but for an RP like this there must be some -- mostly because if this was not a class-based idea, then I'd have Players (at least other sites) whose characters have this Hellfire technique that "cannot be resisted even if your character has an affinity for all types of fire". <-- saw this on another site and about facedesked -.-'' so I figure if I can use the Class system then it'd reduce things like this while also giving the Player a slight challenge in playing something that must be kept within certain parameters.

Okay, think I answered everything that needed an answer/reply to :D so now I will depart and see if I can't do more to this draft. Again, thank you so much, Thufir Hawat, for your responses and insight. It really is helping me a lot.

Offline Thufir Hawat

Re: GM Help/Advice?
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2012, 03:53:54 PM »
Right. I'm pulling from many different MMORPG-styled games. So far I have the following attributes:
ATT- Attack
DEF- Defense
DEX- Dexterity
INT- Intelligence
LUK- Luck
PER- Perception
RES- Resistance
STR- Strength
SNK- Sneaking

^--- The 'sneaking' comes from Sword Art online, just as the 'listening skill' is in the PER attribute does too. Within each of these I've given a small description of what each determines; i.e., for ATT it determines a PC's ability to hit a creature or other PC but also their chance of hitting them too. We've played games I am sure where we've worked hard and got the ATT so high that our Character was capable of hitting something more than 3 times before a 'miss' would occur.
This comes in with each one as well as within the RES section. Here, it depicts a PC's resiliance to physical damage, non-physical, elemental, and even status ailment effects; i.e., Sleep, Poison, Slow, Paralysis...
That could be a fine list, but any list is insufficient by itself. What is the range for the attributes? What do you roll to succeed at an average task? What do I gain upon gaining a level?

Quote
And since I find the idea SAO introduced where there is no 'magic' whatsoever but instead "Sword Skills" I am using that as a basis for this idea as well and with that there is no Priest class or anything 'magical' in it (except for alchemized items/enchanted like I've seen in SAO so far).
I strongly approve >:)!

Quote
Well so far the Char Sheet (For the actual in-game version of the Characters) would have all stated above attribute-wise, their Race (which would be Human for now), a list of Skills and an equipment list detailing the weapon & armor, HP/SP, Level, etc...
Not as little as I expected. I'd recommend you looking at Mini Six, then ;D!

Quote
That is exactly what I meant. I do not think I could personally play a GM and -run- everything which would then limit a Player from being able to do much PC-wise.
That's only a boon for you as a GM, IMO! (I'm sure someone should explain me shortly how I'm wrong and the GM is a god).

Quote
Sure, I'll give out a general idea of where I think the Plot should go; i.e., maybe it should lead up to discover why a Player goes into a coma if their in-game self is killed (reference from .Hack//Sign)
But that is all, not, "Here's where the Plot needs to end and here's how it's going to meet that requirement."
So, directly working with the plot?
It's your game, but I prefer working from setting up a situation.

Quote
With that being said, I can also say that I love the idea of the other Players being Co-GM's too because for me, personally, I can talk to them about ideas for side arcs (plots), ideas for the main plot itself, or something else -- especially feedback if the game is progressing too fast or too slow; what can we do as a Team to get it "just right" and so on. So really, in actuality, I look forward to talking to the members and making a good story line together
That's not why I like GMless games myself, but I'm pretty sure you should try them as well :P!

Quote
Good question ^~^ in this RP I am looking to have the Player play their virtual game self but also there will be a more RL aspect too (think .Hack/Sign how a Player fell into a coma after their PC died). So the RP will not just be limited to a virtual game setting, but it will also take a look into that Player's character who plays the in-game character; i.e., let's say my character I play in this RP is called Jim but in this virtual world he goes by Bloodhound, a level 32 Rogue. (does that help make things understandable? ._.)
Do we have stats for the players as well, then? And what kind of stats would these be ;)?
Of course, if they can't log off at will, obviously you don't need stats, unless there would be some point when they might become relevant, and add something to the game.

Quote
I agree with you there and maybe that is also why I love shows like these -- because they provide truthful life lessons that are more truthful than idealistic :)
Indeed.

Quote
~Nods.~ Yes. I am trying to make a game where people get the general idea that this RP is basically an MMORPG where they create 2 characters to play: 1) the Real character, the Player; 2) the in-game, MMO character and they play the two interchangably. As I said earlier this RP will not just be based around the virtual aspect but also the real aspect; the character's do not sit home all day playing the game but rather they have a life to tend to as well; school, work, family, friends, etc...
Then I guess some kind of system for the players would make sense as well?
Not all systems have to be for combat, after all ;D!

Quote
Yes, the virtual game will have several classes to choose from and possibly more than one type of Race to choose from (sorry >:p and as I said, too, only Human race for now)
There will be customization for the virtual character in terms of their appearance, equipment looks, and maybe even the possibility of dual-classing (like Rift introduced, but that is a possibility for the future, not now)
That makes sense.

Quote
Since there is no magical skills in this RP, the only magic is, as I stated before from what I saw in SAO, items that can be bought or found in dungeons/field; i.e., a Bangle that grants the user +5 to HP
Wait, aren't there going to be special attacks and the like? Although it would be understandable if you thought they would require too much work.

Quote
For the combat, should this be attempted in a forum style, some sort of DICE system would be nice just to help reduce any PvP issues that may occur (should a PC and PC do an Arena match that is/one PC is a PK, the other is not) otherwise I am going solely off the trust from one Role-player to the next (see the link to the "Oath of the Drake" in my siggy :3)
That's exactly why we use dice, after all. The point is to get everybody on the same page and has a pre-existing method of resolution.
As a side note, I've signed said oath, although with a reserve ;).

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As for gaining XP, it'd be like any other MMORPG. Kill a monster, get 'x' amount of money and XP; complete a quest, get 'x' amount of money, XP, and even an item or stat point.
Makes sense when you're going for the MMORPG "feel", so I kinda expected this.

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If I could find a -free- Character Builder site, I'd be better off (lmao) just so there was a basis to create a more fair environment between Players for this type of RP.
For most games, the "free character builder" is called "the GM" >:)!

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o.o ...oro? I think I see what you are getting at, but I may need a bit more explanation. You are saying that by playing a role in which you play a virtual character (see my example for Bloodhound above) that it wouldn't feel like an MMO to you?
No, that's fine. The problem is, the mechanics themselves might create a different "feel" for the character than the one I'm used to from MMOs.

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As for more details, those are all in the works and with your replies so far it's been helping me relax and think things through smoothly and a little more slowly so I thank you much ^~^
You're welcome.

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Also thank you so much for all the links you referenced. I will check them out when I can. Yes, I cannot stand too many rules, but for an RP like this there must be some -- mostly because if this was not a class-based idea, then I'd have Players (at least other sites) whose characters have this Hellfire technique that "cannot be resisted even if your character has an affinity for all types of fire". <-- saw this on another site and about facedesked -.-'' so I figure if I can use the Class system then it'd reduce things like this while also giving the Player a slight challenge in playing something that must be kept within certain parameters.
As a side note, a dice system doesn't need to be class-based 8-).
But yeah, I see why you'd want a system that features restrictions upon the kind of characters that can  be created, and their abilities in the game. Again, that's exactly why people use tabletop systems.

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Okay, think I answered everything that needed an answer/reply to :D so now I will depart and see if I can't do more to this draft. Again, thank you so much, Thufir Hawat, for your responses and insight. It really is helping me a lot.
You're welcome.
BTW, I'd suggest you check Mini Six. I just have a feeling it might help you with the draft >:)!

Offline InvertedAgonyTopic starter

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Re: GM Help/Advice?
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2012, 12:54:23 PM »
That could be a fine list, but any list is insufficient by itself. What is the range for the attributes? What do you roll to succeed at an average task? What do I gain upon gaining a level?
The list gets more detailed the more I actually look at things and what is all on a sheet for MMORPGs @__@
Well for this RP I was thinking more of a Free-form style to play where a DICE system comes into play only if a PC fights another, be it in an Arena match or in a dungeon fending off a Player Killer or multiple PKs.
Also, glad you agree on the no magic aspect. I find this concept - from SAO - highly intriguing :D

That's only a boon for you as a GM, IMO! (I'm sure someone should explain me shortly how I'm wrong and the GM is a god).
Well sure a GM can be looked at as a God, but even so I cannot bring myself to do such as I feel it severly restricts the Players and their overall interaction. Not to mention Character Development, Plot, and experience of the game. So I'd agree with you on it being a boon and if I had to, I would intervene by playing the "GM card" to either fast track something, fix a problem immediately, or just to slow things down.

So, directly working with the plot?
It's your game, but I prefer working from setting up a situation.
I wouldn't say working with the plot directly but more like throwing in tidbits or subtle hints of what direction it 'should' be going down at that time. I much prefer having situations arise and the PC's react accordingly myself to create something and who knows, maybe that would still go on the road of the current plot, or it could create something new entirely. I'm not picky so long as there is interest and entertainment for myself and the Players. But of course if the RP was spoken about OOCly and suggestions came up how to advance then I'd take all of it into consideration, speak to them, and go from there.

That's not why I like GMless games myself, but I'm pretty sure you should try them as well :P!
I prefer to think of myself as "the mysterious stranger" personally. By which I do mean, 'GM who plays amongst Players without influencing the current plot in any way in a meta-gaming fashion'. :D
Think of me as that shadow that is always lurking about; I know your every move, every word spoken and person spoken to, where you are at all times, and more but I never influence anything to happen to you or another; I'm always just watching you o____o''

Do we have stats for the players as well, then? And what kind of stats would these be ;)?
Of course, if they can't log off at will, obviously you don't need stats, unless there would be some point when they might become relevant, and add something to the game.
I am hoping to have the MMO character sheets set up in a format to show stats and attributes, yes, but as for those stats actually meaning anything other than to just give limitations and boundaries for the actual Player to follow, that is in the works itself :/ although I'd like for them to play some sort of role in the RP itself at some point in time, if not most the time throughout.

Then I guess some kind of system for the players would make sense as well?
Not all systems have to be for combat, after all ;D!
As I stated earlier, a system would only be needed basically for combat now that I think of it but even then it could be entirely optional if two Players recently discussed something OOCly that involved their PC's. The system would be there to play more like a referee if need be to square things out.

Wait, aren't there going to be special attacks and the like? Although it would be understandable if you thought they would require too much work.
Yes! Indeed there will be special attacks. What's an MMORPG RP without special attacks ;)?
I'm trying not to use SAO's terminology and call the specials 'sword skills' since they already used it xD but they will be called something that all will know are their Class's special attacks.
As for 'the like' I am inclined to leave a lot of that up to the Player too. Sure, I may create a few different pieces of weaponry, armor, and accessories but I will be relying on the Player to also come up with such for themselves and even the group as a whole; it's better with teamwork than one person creating -everything- right?

No, that's fine. The problem is, the mechanics themselves might create a different "feel" for the character than the one I'm used to from MMOs.
For most games, the "free character builder" is called "the GM" >:)!
You say 'the mechanics' could you clarify please? I mean, I think I see your point but still, I'd love to hear your explanation to :) since I have played many MMOs too.
I'll take a swing in the dark here and tell you what I am thinking you're meaning :D
You're saying that since you'd be playing a Character within a Character (playing one who plays an MMORPG one), that it wouldn't feel like MMOs you've played before because you'd be narrating the virtual character's every action - keeping it within their stat boundaries - instead of having a system that automatically decides if an attack hit; an enemy missed?
And on a final note... @___@ don't remind me on that. I know the GM is the free character builder but c'mon man! D: my head will implode if I think -too- much >:p

As a side note, a dice system doesn't need to be class-based 8-).
But yeah, I see why you'd want a system that features restrictions upon the kind of characters that can  be created, and their abilities in the game. Again, that's exactly why people use tabletop systems.
Ha-ha! I do apologize if that is how it sounded from me n.n;; what I meant by 'class system' was not using a DICE system or some system that actually is class-based; I simply meant to imply that by having a Player create a character that is, say, a Beast Tamer, that they'd have to play that character within its limitations of what it could do, skills it could use -- in a free-form style.
I did not mean for it to sound like I was saying an actual system caste was needed :)

Offline Thufir Hawat

Re: GM Help/Advice?
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2012, 09:19:11 PM »
The list gets more detailed the more I actually look at things and what is all on a sheet for MMORPGs @__@
Well for this RP I was thinking more of a Free-form style to play where a DICE system comes into play only if a PC fights another, be it in an Arena match or in a dungeon fending off a Player Killer or multiple PKs.
Also, glad you agree on the no magic aspect. I find this concept - from SAO - highly intriguing :D
Yeah, got that part. That's actually how dice systems work by default. You only bring the dice out when they're needed, be it for a fight, jumping a chasm, or something else.
The simple rule is, unless both winning and failure are going to have consequences and be interesting, don't bother. I think that works for your game as well ;D!

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Well sure a GM can be looked at as a God, but even so I cannot bring myself to do such as I feel it severly restricts the Players and their overall interaction. Not to mention Character Development, Plot, and experience of the game. So I'd agree with you on it being a boon and if I had to, I would intervene by playing the "GM card" to either fast track something, fix a problem immediately, or just to slow things down.
Exactly why I say it's a boon.
As I use to say, I'm just there to play NPCs. Doesn't mean my NPCs can't buy your PC's soul and re-sell it to the highest bidder >:)!

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I wouldn't say working with the plot directly but more like throwing in tidbits or subtle hints of what direction it 'should' be going down at that time. I much prefer having situations arise and the PC's react accordingly myself to create something and who knows, maybe that would still go on the road of the current plot, or it could create something new entirely. I'm not picky so long as there is interest and entertainment for myself and the Players. But of course if the RP was spoken about OOCly and suggestions came up how to advance then I'd take all of it into consideration, speak to them, and go from there.
Yeah, that's what I mean when I speak of the difference. I literally don't do plots!
Plots emerge as an afterthought from playing up to the situation at hand. Works like a charm IME!

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I am hoping to have the MMO character sheets set up in a format to show stats and attributes, yes, but as for those stats actually meaning anything other than to just give limitations and boundaries for the actual Player to follow, that is in the works itself :/ although I'd like for them to play some sort of role in the RP itself at some point in time, if not most the time throughout.
I can offer you one thing they could be good for 8-).
Remember when I mentioned those meta-points that don't exist in the game? I was thinking that they could be used in a game where the players can't log out at will. Seems like that's not what you're going for.
However, you can use them for something else. Amass enough of them, and you can use them to enhance your player's life!
By spending a large amount of them, he or she could get:
-Money the character can use from selling their equipment.
-A boost at work by another employee that plays the game and turns out to be in their guild, or something.
-Getting to know another player outside the game.
You know, stuff like that could be useful :P.

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Yes! Indeed there will be special attacks.
Good to know. Now you've got to decide how they're going to be used and how they relate to attributes.

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What's an MMORPG RP without special attacks ;)?
Boring, that's what >:)!

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As for 'the like' I am inclined to leave a lot of that up to the Player too. Sure, I may create a few different pieces of weaponry, armor, and accessories but I will be relying on the Player to also come up with such for themselves and even the group as a whole; it's better with teamwork than one person creating -everything- right?
I agree, but be prepared that at least some players might ask you to create something for them.

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You say 'the mechanics' could you clarify please? I mean, I think I see your point but still, I'd love to hear your explanation to :) since I have played many MMOs too.
I mean the actual rules of the game when I say "mechanics", nothing more or less.

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I'll take a swing in the dark here and tell you what I am thinking you're meaning :D
You're saying that since you'd be playing a Character within a Character (playing one who plays an MMORPG one), that it wouldn't feel like MMOs you've played before because you'd be narrating the virtual character's every action - keeping it within their stat boundaries - instead of having a system that automatically decides if an attack hit; an enemy missed?
Totally not that, especially since I'm used to the system telling me whether the attack hit or the enemy missed :). But the actual reason is going to turn your thread into a discussion of the relative merits of said systems, so I'm going to just PM you with the answer.

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And on a final note... @___@ don't remind me on that. I know the GM is the free character builder but c'mon man! D: my head will implode if I think -too- much >:p
O:)
It's all fine, everything's going to be okay and you wouldn't need to build many characters!
Hope you feel better now O8)!

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Ha-ha! I do apologize if that is how it sounded from me n.n;; what I meant by 'class system' was not using a DICE system or some system that actually is class-based; I simply meant to imply that by having a Player create a character that is, say, a Beast Tamer, that they'd have to play that character within its limitations of what it could do, skills it could use -- in a free-form style.
I did not mean for it to sound like I was saying an actual system caste was needed :)
I see. Well, it was me who misunderstood you then XD

Offline InvertedAgonyTopic starter

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Re: GM Help/Advice?
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2012, 10:28:10 PM »
Yeah, got that part. That's actually how dice systems work by default. You only bring the dice out when they're needed, be it for a fight, jumping a chasm, or something else.
The simple rule is, unless both winning and failure are going to have consequences and be interesting, don't bother. I think that works for your game as well ;D!
ouo indeed... Never thought of it like that. See, I was thinking D&D where I am under the impression that DICE are for literally just about everything; from character movement, to attacking/defending, finding/gaining items, and all that other good stuff. I was unaware that dice were only brought in for things like that you exampled here and yes, why use dice if there will be no rewards or consequences? I can see the logic there too.


Exactly why I say it's a boon.
As I use to say, I'm just there to play NPCs. Doesn't mean my NPCs can't buy your PC's soul and re-sell it to the highest bidder >:)!
Ha-ha-ha!! I do agree my good man, I do agree XD


Yeah, that's what I mean when I speak of the difference. I literally don't do plots!
Plots emerge as an afterthought from playing up to the situation at hand. Works like a charm IME!
Oh! I see, I see. Read the link too and now I understand owo I never thought of it like that :D


I can offer you one thing they could be good for 8-).
Remember when I mentioned those meta-points that don't exist in the game? I was thinking that they could be used in a game where the players can't log out at will. Seems like that's not what you're going for.
However, you can use them for something else. Amass enough of them, and you can use them to enhance your player's life!
By spending a large amount of them, he or she could get:
-Money the character can use from selling their equipment.
-A boost at work by another employee that plays the game and turns out to be in their guild, or something.
-Getting to know another player outside the game.
You know, stuff like that could be useful :P.
>.> I do like those ideas... I took into consideration meta-points, but hadn't thought of using them like this. Good ideas :D


Good to know. Now you've got to decide how they're going to be used and how they relate to attributes.
Hmm... Was on that too since I was figuring the skills could be given bonuses like if they have an elemental item equipped then that skill, or a select few, would gain an elemental damage bonus?


I agree, but be prepared that at least some players might ask you to create something for them.
Oh, well that I can handle. I've done that before, I just don't want it to be an all the time thing...


I mean the actual rules of the game when I say "mechanics", nothing more or less.
:-[ my bad D:> I should've guessed that :-[ lol but yes I am working on the mechanics of that... Slowly...


Totally not that, especially since I'm used to the system telling me whether the attack hit or the enemy missed :). But the actual reason is going to turn your thread into a discussion of the relative merits of said systems, so I'm going to just PM you with the answer.
Oh, my apologies ._.
:-\ goody... I admit I am a n00b when it comes to this stuff. I've never played table-tops or used systems like I have heard of and looked up/seen... Last thing I need is for people to inadvertently 'flame' me D;> I'm learning ~flails around then falls over~ @.@


O:)
It's all fine, everything's going to be okay and you wouldn't need to build many characters!
Hope you feel better now O8)!
~twinkly eyes of joyness~ YAY! Glad for that really. In the past 3 months alone I've made way too many characters for myself @_@;;


I see. Well, it was me who misunderstood you then XD!
It is alright friend. I read my own comment this morning and went: .___. derp... It sounded exactly the way you had replied; I've of said something similar too x'D

Offline Thufir Hawat

Re: GM Help/Advice?
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2012, 08:09:04 AM »
ouo indeed... Never thought of it like that. See, I was thinking D&D where I am under the impression that DICE are for literally just about everything; from character movement, to attacking/defending, finding/gaining items, and all that other good stuff.
First, I'm not willing to comment on D&D at any length (usually I only do that to correct some misconception). It's simply not a game I play.
But in the games I play, that's how it goes. Attacking and defending would matter (since often, they might mean difference between life and death)? Then yes, roll them! I use to tell how a good attack roll changed the story (instead of a duel to first blood, we had a vendetta between two noble families >:)).
Movement is most often unrolled. That said, if it matters whether the character or the antagonist would reach the gun on the floor first? No reason not to roll to see who's faster.
Finding and gaining items might be left to the dice, or to the GM discretion. That's more of a stylistic choice. Do you want to deal with items you didn't need? (Now, finding a clue with only a cursory glance on a crimescene might well be left to the dice again, or it might simply depend on skills, or it might be automatic. Again, depends on what kind of game you're playing).
But a superhero fighting a single, nameless minion, under no time constraint? Not much point in bringing out the dice, just describe how the superhero wins.

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I was unaware that dice were only brought in for things like that you exampled here and yes, why use dice if there will be no rewards or consequences? I can see the logic there too.
That's the logic.

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Oh! I see, I see. Read the link too and now I understand owo I never thought of it like that :D
Well, it's a particular way of GMing. Like everything, it's got its advantages and disadvantages.

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>.> I do like those ideas... I took into consideration meta-points, but hadn't thought of using them like this. Good ideas :D
That's actually pretty standard stuff, I just adapted it to your specific game, so I can't take the praise ;).

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Hmm... Was on that too since I was figuring the skills could be given bonuses like if they have an elemental item equipped then that skill, or a select few, would gain an elemental damage bonus?
Assuming you're talking strictly attack skills, that makes sense.

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Oh, well that I can handle. I've done that before, I just don't want it to be an all the time thing...
;D
Yeah, I know the feeling.

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:-\ goody... I admit I am a n00b when it comes to this stuff. I've never played table-tops or used systems like I have heard of and looked up/seen...
Everyone was a "noob" at some time. And everyone has seen people more experienced than himself, or just better at some aspect of the game. Besides, I've seen novice players and GMs that were better than people with supposedly decades of experience.
Now set all the considerations of experience apart, and work with the skills you've got, improving the ones you're lacking along the way. I'm sure your players wouldn't fail to appreciate it 8-)!

Offline Sophyta

Re: GM Help/Advice?
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2012, 05:16:44 PM »
Off Topic:

Need help with writing better then I do now.  Want to do more then just post a few lines but this damn ADHD gets me all over the place.  Never learned how to deal with it.

I more or less do some things random and such.

Thanks!!

Offline alxnjsh

Re: GM Help/Advice?
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2012, 08:19:27 PM »
Off Topic:

Need help with writing better then I do now.  Want to do more then just post a few lines but this damn ADHD gets me all over the place.  Never learned how to deal with it.

I more or less do some things random and such.

Thanks!!

Have you tried a blog - these are snippets and not necessarily story length posts. You could try a one-shot game as well. Lastly, check out the storyteller's cafe for inspiration.

Offline Thufir Hawat

Re: GM Help/Advice?
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2012, 04:25:51 AM »
Off Topic:

Need help with writing better then I do now.  Want to do more then just post a few lines but this damn ADHD gets me all over the place.  Never learned how to deal with it.

I more or less do some things random and such.

Thanks!!
So, if I'm getting it right, you want more post length? That's what I get from the "post more than a few lines" part, at least.
Style Guide from TH
Many, many posts on E. are constructed in this manner. Post about the action of your character. Use authorial voice to tell us why he or she chose what you described, whether it's a mood, a personality trait, or stems from their past history.

And here we go into uncharted territory, depending on how much narrative control you have over the scene's details, the actions of other characters in the scene, and the result's outcome (not to be confused with scene's outcome, as you might have full control over details and none over the scene's outcome, or vice versa). But for description, it's the details and results that matter more.
These vary from a RP to a RP, depending on group's consensus.

So, if you decide whether what you're doing succeeds, describe the result.
Assuming you have no control over it, tell us what is the expected outcome. It helps the other writers, too, especially if your description of the action wasn't as clear as you thought it is. I know from expirience this happens ;D!
If you have control over other characters in the scene, tell us what they do in response. Otherwise, skip it.
If you can describe details, take one and give it some spotlight. It might never matter again. Don't do this when you're GMing, though, or the players would probably assume said detail matters more than it actually does >:)!
About ADHD, I don't have much experience, but I figure this might work.
Just give yourself time without posting. Do something else for a while, even if it's writing another post, maybe in Forum games or Adult Socialising. Then return to the IC post you want to make longer.
And finally, don't forget quality matters more than quantity. But that has nothing to do with post length, so just keep it in mind 8-)!

About as good as a style guide as you're going to get in a forum post, although of course other writers might give you better advice!