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Author Topic: Chemtrails vs. Contrails  (Read 3056 times)

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Offline OniyaTopic starter

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Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« on: June 26, 2012, 10:59:54 AM »
Okay, I'm not sure if this belongs here or in Elliquiy U, so I'm hedging my bets.  Recently, I've been seeing some unsubstantiated scare-mongering about how those 'white lines in the sky' are indications of the government spraying us with experimental 'stuff', with the possibilities ranging from chemical/pesticide-type agents to biological agents (like SARS).  I'm going to say it up front:  I think this is bollocks.  I grew up in a fairly active air-travel area (outside DC), and we saw these things all the time and knew them to be condensation trails, caused when either a) water released during the combustion process of jet fuel condensed almost instantly, or b) solid products of combustion created nuclei for microscopic water droplets to condense onto, forming essentially 'linear clouds'.

In response to this explanation, I was hit with: 'cloud vapors do not sit there for hours. the sky above us is cross hatched sometimes literally no space between the whole mile by mile grid. this is not water vapor. look at films and photos. water vapor disappears after a few minutes this is often there for hours or all day.' and a sourceless expose'-style missive:

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
A meeting has taken place recently between an investigative researcher and a well placed military source. The identity of both parties is to be protected. The source has intimate knowledge of at least one aspect of the aerosol operations, and asserts the following:

1. The operation is a joint project between the Pentagon and the pharmaceutical industry.

2. The Pentagon wishes to test biological diseases for war purposes on unsuspecting populations. It was stated that SARS is a failure as the expected rate of mortality was intended to be 80%.

3. The pharmaceutical industry is making trillions on medications designed to treat both fatal and non-fatal diseases given to populations.

4. The bacteria and viruses are freeze-dried and then placed on fine filaments for release.

5. The metals released along with the diseases heat up from the sun, creating a perfect environment for the bacteria and viruses to thrive in the air supply.

6. Most countries being sprayed are unaware of the activities and they have not consented to the activities. He states that commercial aircraft flying are one of the delivery systems.

7. Most of the "players" are old friends and business partners of the senior Bush.

8. The ultimate goal is the control of all populations through directed and accurate spraying of drugs, diseases, etc.

9. People who have tried to reveal the truth have been imprisoned and killed.

10. This is the most dangerous and dark time that I have experienced in all of my years of serving this country.

This information is relayed without qualification, as I am knowledgeable in the level of integrity of the researcher that has made this information available to the public. There is both risk and restraint that has been exercised in the preparation of this statement.

As people are generally pretty good here about taking the time to research, and looking for legitimate sources, I'd like to hear other people's views on this - both sides, if there's anyone with credible information to give.

Offline Torch

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Re: Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2012, 11:09:40 AM »
  I think this is bollocks.  I grew up in a fairly active air-travel area (outside DC), and we saw these things all the time and knew them to be condensation trails, caused when either a) water released during the combustion process of jet fuel condensed almost instantly, or b) solid products of combustion created nuclei for microscopic water droplets to condense onto, forming essentially 'linear clouds'.


Although I love a good imagination as much as anyone else, the fact that people waste time and energy conjuring up a conspiracy theory about something as benign as a vapor trail makes my head hurt.

Of course it's bollocks. Oi.

Offline Beguile's Mistress

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Re: Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2012, 11:11:38 AM »
I live in Pittsburgh where an Air Force base is located and on the flight path between several major airports and/or military bases.  At any given time there can be as many as a dozen or more contrails across the sky.  They will dissipate in half an hour or last as long as several hours depending on what our meteorologists call "the winds aloft."  They consist of ice which is frozen water vapor and due to low temps at that altitude (30,000 feet or more) don't melt.

I also vote bollocks on the conspiracy theorists. 

I recall not too long ago there were stories of unpainted and unmarked tanks moving by rail across the country out of Western Pennsylvania.  This turned out to be an old story based on shipments out of a steel mill where tank bodies were manufactured and shipped to other locations for final assembly and numbering with military identification numbers.  Still, the story persists that they are part of the plot of the Third World Order to take over the planet and are used by the same people who fly the silent black helicopters in the dark of night.

Offline Torch

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Re: Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2012, 11:14:47 AM »
  Still, the story persists that they are part of the plot of the Third World Order to take over the planet and are used by the same people who fly the silent black helicopters in the dark of night.

Yep, and don't forget the "secret codes" on the backs of highway signs telling them which way to go to take over major cities.  ::)

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2012, 11:21:20 AM »
As an amateur meteorologist, I find the whole "chemtrails" thing to be supremely annoying.  But, given the dismal level of science education in America today, I'm not surprised it's gained a foothold in the popular imagination.

Online Valerian

Re: Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2012, 11:54:35 AM »
I first heard this tale in... maybe 1999?  It might have been part of the general paranoia about Y2K, though it could just as easily have been general ridiculousness, given that I heard it on the Art Bell show.  (I wasn't listening by choice; my SO at the time liked to listen to the show for a laugh.  In my opinion, the level of ignorance was simply too painful for laughter.)

It was less organized, and good old Art had fewer details, but the gist was the same.  The contrails lasted too long and "didn't look normal".  Just after one particularly odd-looking and long-lasting contrail appeared over his house, his entire family caught some sort of strange flu-like illness.  The military is obviously experimenting with germ warfare!

Why this couldn't have been actual flu that one family member gave to the rest, I don't know -- he pretty much dismissed that possibility, unsurprisingly.  And if you're testing wind vectors, the feasibility of such a delivery system, etc., by using something relatively harmless, which is what he claimed, then there would have been no way for anyone to find out how well the system had worked.  Few people will go to the doctor with a minor illness, so how would they even track where the germs went in any reliable fashion?

Not that logic was ever much a part of the show.  This is the same man who found hints of deep conspiracy in the lyrics to "These Boots are Made for Walking".   ::)

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2012, 11:55:55 AM »
Okay.. you know I've worked on several different models of jets (and have been drafted to help pull engines from a few more).

there are no damn 'filament dispersal arrays' in the damn engines. You pull out the HUGE F-14 or F-18 engines you will see that is true.

You can't expect it to work.. because.. high altitude dispersal will effect elements HUNDREDS of miles away and without an accurate of idea of how far it will disperse. And a fun note.. winds up there are REALLY fast and you can't accurately spread any of the things listed without overblow.

Offline OniyaTopic starter

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Re: Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2012, 12:02:42 PM »
I live in Pittsburgh where an Air Force base is located and on the flight path between several major airports and/or military bases.  At any given time there can be as many as a dozen or more contrails across the sky.  They will dissipate in half an hour or last as long as several hours depending on what our meteorologists call "the winds aloft."  They consist of ice which is frozen water vapor and due to low temps at that altitude (30,000 feet or more) don't melt.

Oooh - found a nifty site while trying to look up how long cirrus clouds last (since those are also ice-crystal clouds):  http://contrailscience.com/  Nicely explains the grid patterns with a Java app (two crossing high-traffic routes plus a strong upper-atmosphere wind), has pictures of massive amounts of contrails back in the 60's (which should go a long way if I can get a moderately firm date of when this 'chemical spraying' thing started) and reports dating back to 1921, as well as illustrations of how many more air-traffic routes there are over the US now than ever - even compared to the 1980's.

Offline OniyaTopic starter

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Re: Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2012, 12:08:24 PM »
Okay.. you know I've worked on several different models of jets (and have been drafted to help pull engines from a few more).

there are no damn 'filament dispersal arrays' in the damn engines. You pull out the HUGE F-14 or F-18 engines you will see that is true.

You can't expect it to work.. because.. high altitude dispersal will effect elements HUNDREDS of miles away and without an accurate of idea of how far it will disperse. And a fun note.. winds up there are REALLY fast and you can't accurately spread any of the things listed without overblow.

Was actually hoping you'd weigh in.  I'm suspecting that the writer of the expose' thing had about as much military experience and/or connection to the military as the little Oni (who has a veteran for a grandfather who never talks about his service).

Offline Scribbles

Re: Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2012, 12:13:25 PM »
Oniya, if the new evidence you found doesn't help to convince your conspiracy theorists then there's really only one thing you can do, sell Anti-Experimental-Stuff helmets!  :-)

Offline OniyaTopic starter

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Re: Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2012, 12:20:44 PM »
I know, right?  But where am I going to get a good source of tinfoil in bulk?  (Of course, I'm sure the response will be that the author of that site is in cahoots with the Black Helicopter People.)

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2012, 12:23:22 PM »
Was actually hoping you'd weigh in.  I'm suspecting that the writer of the expose' thing had about as much military experience and/or connection to the military as the little Oni (who has a veteran for a grandfather who never talks about his service).

Well lets see.. you are venting chemicals out the exhaust of a high performance jet engine? Very few bacteria survive the utter cold of that altitude (I've see iced wings/engine cowlings from planes come down from high altitude fast), and even fewer like going from the heat of the jet exhuast to cold. Chemicals do funky things at both extremes (but you should talk to a chemist about complex organic chemicals) and don't like extremes either.

I've gotten 2nd degree burns AND lost eye brows (and other bits of hair) from jetwash.. venting from the exhaust of a jet.. nah.. can't work.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2012, 07:31:27 PM »
Clearly, Callie has already been subverted by the NWO's mind-controlling rays, and forced to spread disinformation. ;D

Offline OniyaTopic starter

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Re: Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2012, 07:59:23 PM »
Clearly, Callie has already been subverted by the NWO's mind-controlling rays, and forced to spread disinformation. ;D

I'll believe that when he starts heading his posts 'Wolfpack in da HOUSE!'  *snicker*

Offline Revolverman

Re: Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2012, 08:02:44 PM »

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2012, 08:11:42 PM »
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Chemtrail

All you might wana read.


Oh, that is golden. I am going to have a fun few hours reading that wiki.

Offline OniyaTopic starter

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Re: Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2012, 08:15:32 PM »
I'll probably read more of that site, but I think the snark is too thick to make a convincing counter-argument.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2012, 08:18:25 PM »
Yeah, but the snark is what makes it entertaining.

Offline OniyaTopic starter

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Re: Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2012, 08:53:14 PM »
Which is why I'll be going back.  ;D

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2012, 09:08:06 PM »
I'll believe that when he starts heading his posts 'Wolfpack in da HOUSE!'  *snicker*

Uh.. wrong member of the family.. I'm not the NC State alumni of the family.

Offline Revolverman

Re: Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2012, 09:08:59 PM »
Oh, anyone of a strong religious belief might wana stay clear of that site.


It's... aggressively atheistic, in the vain of Richard Dawkins, to say the least.

Offline OniyaTopic starter

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Re: Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2012, 09:14:40 PM »
Uh.. wrong member of the family.. I'm not the NC State alumni of the family.

Actually, a professional wrestling reference.  I watch it for the spandex.  ;)

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2012, 09:22:24 PM »
Actually, a professional wrestling reference.  I watch it for the spandex.  ;)

Sorry..haven't since the death of Andre the Giant. :D

Offline OniyaTopic starter

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Re: Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2012, 10:17:07 PM »
You can't expect it to work.. because.. high altitude dispersal will effect elements HUNDREDS of miles away and without an accurate of idea of how far it will disperse. And a fun note.. winds up there are REALLY fast and you can't accurately spread any of the things listed without overblow.

Found this while sating my curiosity:

http://www.geology.sdsu.edu/how_volcanoes_work/Krakatau.html
"Tephra from the eruption of Krakatoa fell as far as 2,500 km downwind in the days following the eruption. However, the finest fragments were propelled high into the stratosphere, spreading outward as a broad cloud across the entire equatorial belt in only two weeks. These particles would remain suspended in the atmosphere for years, propagating farther to the north and south before finally dissipating."

I'm betting even those 'finest fragments' are larger than the so-called 'filaments'.  They're certainly bigger than bacteria.

Offline Revolverman

Re: Chemtrails vs. Contrails
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2012, 12:33:43 AM »
Never mind flying about dummy planes disguised as Commercial flights (or the even more insane theory that normal flights are doing this) would be so frightful difficult to do with no one noticing, never mind expensive for something that seems to be done just for the Evulz.