Interesting Article on How Women are Treated in the Geek Community

[Apple of Eris]

Well, I don't know who starfire is, nor do I care, so I'm not going to join that discussion. To move back to the original question about the article, yes, I in general agree with it.

Now I can only go from personal experience since I've done nor seen any actual studies of this stuff, but yes, I've been gawked at, pursued, harassed, etc by geek guys, far more so than several other social categories, at least in ways that made me feel uncomfortable/threatened.

I used to go to gaming stores, there is one not to far from where I used to live, pretty small really and just jam packed with shelves and stuff. lots of corners and not greatly lit. It used to scare me to go in there, so I stopped going. And as to what I was wearing, yeah I went in with shorts and tank top and flip flops (it was summer, I'm not wearing a sweater just so guys don't decide to look at my tits), and every guy in that freaking store stared at me or decided that if I was looking at GURPS, they had to be looking at whatever was next to me. I left, didn't go back for months. Come winter I went back again, same thing, except I was dressed in a coat and jeans and boots etc. It was CREEPY and unnerving. Not one guy said hello, but they just stared. Even they four guys that had been playing a boardgame stopped talking the entire time I was in there. I only went back one more time with my bf, but never again.

Now I've been to a store in the chicago area that, and I'm not sure if she was an owner or not, but had a young lady who was very prominent in the running of the store. The place was very well lit, all the aisles were angled so you could see everything from the register area. I actually felt safe there, which was nice.

Also, when it comes to gaming, like table top. I stopped. I had far too many bad experiences with that. It was always "We need a way in, Apple you seduce the guard," or other stuff that just made me feel really uncomfortable. I even started playing male characters because of it. I even distinctly remember one game where my character (male) got transformed into a female. And then of course all that crap started up again.

Or the time I walked in for a game and what are the boys watching? Some kind of japanime porn thing with tentacles that were raping and killing every girl when they would 'orgasm' or something. I mean, who the fuck watches that when you KNOW a girl is coming over? And then they expected me to sit through to the end of that before we started gaming? Oh hell no, I left that group asap.

I even had the issues with the first person shooter games. My bf has an xbox so he plays xbox live from time to time and has that headphone thing. I tried playing call of duty once (yeah I sucked at it), but before we even started as soon as I got on the mic and said hello, I got "Hey you sound hot!" or "What do you look like" "What are you wearing" just all kinds of ignorant bullshit that made me want to reach through the microphone and rip off some guys testicles.

I won't ever do that online voice thing with a game again because of that crap. Not even when I got my arm twisted into playing WoW for a couple months. My friends got me a mic but I absolutely refused to do anything with it.

I used to be a geek girl for a few years, but I don't consider myself part of geek culture anymore because of those experiences. Now I know some women had different, even positive experiences. I had some too, but in general the negatives outweighed them and I've moved on to other things.

[Shjade]

I won't ever do that online voice thing with a game again because of that crap. Not even when I got my arm twisted into playing WoW for a couple months. My friends got me a mic but I absolutely refused to do anything with it.

This right here was why I helped to police my raid team's Vent channel in WoW when I could. The team had several female members, some of whom were fairly high-ranking in the guild, and some of the members (usually newer ones, but not always) still gave them inappropriate shit that had to be slapped down. Being who I am, I typically did this via scathing wit rather than with the more simplistic "Dude not cool" approach and kept things more or less lighthearted so we could all keep having fun and not get hung up on one or two guys being uncouth. Sets poor precedent when a long-time raid group still has this issue from time to time, though, when thinking about how well a less-veteran group is likely to receive female voices in the mix. :|

[Callie Del Noire]

I feel your pain Apple.. I've had a few female friends in the same boat, but I have to admit that the recent store I've been gaming at (and several of the old ones) have changed outlooks a bit. Hammerhall, my current store, is wide open, run in part by a couple women, and has a good reputation (not to mention several of us older gamers .. I alone of them don't have kids to bring.. who don't tolerate that sort of behavior.)

As for Xbox..yeah.. I'm a guy.. and I don't do the mic when I go multiplayer.. too many 8 year olds (emotional/actual) out there.

As for WoW.. again.. my guild is a family one (mostly.. half the guild offiers are related.. father, mother, son, daughter, ect. And the rest of us aren't into the poo flinging/talking. Very little cussing/flirting)

[Apple of Eris]

Another good article on this hot topic (probably a hot topic because that one writer wrote some nasty stuff about Felicia Day), that I got from Felicia Day's facebook postings http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/173227/Opinion_Video_games_and_Male_Gaze__are_we_men_or_boys.php

[Evrem]

This right here was why I helped to police my raid team's Vent channel in WoW when I could. The team had several female members, some of whom were fairly high-ranking in the guild, and some of the members (usually newer ones, but not always) still gave them inappropriate shit that had to be slapped down. Being who I am, I typically did this via scathing wit rather than with the more simplistic "Dude not cool" approach and kept things more or less lighthearted so we could all keep having fun and not get hung up on one or two guys being uncouth. Sets poor precedent when a long-time raid group still has this issue from time to time, though, when thinking about how well a less-veteran group is likely to receive female voices in the mix. :|

Yeah, we always tried to keep that crap down in our channels as well when new people were with us. Typically the raid leader or I would just act gay and hit on the offender. That usually shut him up. Most of the ladies I played with were just as bad as the guys most of the time, but I knew that was because they were comfortable among friends. It was all good in the hood. lol

[Apple of Eris]

Apologies for the thread necromancy, but I found this website, documenting the nasty stuff female gamers get sent when playing on xbox live.
Pretty much sums up why I no longer use it.

http://fatuglyorslutty.com/

[Shjade]

I'd heard of that site, but never really visited it before.

...

I find myself struggling to believe some of those incidents weren't staged/done purposely to end up on a site like that one. I just can't grasp the idea that people exist who would legitimately think these things. The guy who suggests Godzilla came out of a woman who would make a good spelunking opportunity for Indiana Jones? Come on, that's just too silly to be real. ...right?

[Revolverman]

Eh, I'm a guy, and I get that kinda stuff (perhaps not as sexual, but just as violent) from internet tough guys all the time.

[AndyZ]

As has already been said, this is not something that happens only to females or only by men.

Shjade, no, I seriously doubt people believe any of the trash talk that gets spewed.  I don't believe that the guy on the other side of the mic actually wants me to suck his dick; it's just an attempt to demoralize and keep someone from playing at their best.

[Shjade]

No no, I mean I can't believe that it's really trash talk. It sounds like something someone said specifically to get on fatuglyorslutty.

[AndyZ]

Trash talk is usually the most horrible, offensive and nasty stuff you can even think to say in order to distract the person.  You could be right that it was said purely for internet notoriety, but I've heard some truly sociopathic things even as a child in the schoolyard.  Adults who do this crap have just had more time to polish their imaginations.

[Callie Del Noire]

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/

This sums things up bluntly I think.

[Evrem]

Girls Get Revenge

I love this video.

[Shjade]

All of the upvotes forever.

[Chris Brady]

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/

This sums things up bluntly I think.

It was true then, it's true now.  Sad thing how this holds up in the test of time, ne?

[Bloodied Porcelain]

I admit I didn't read much more than the first 10-15 posts in this thread, so if I'm repeating what anyone else has said, I apologize in advance.

I'll be the first person to say that being a female in geek culture is difficult and highly uncomfortable 90% of the time. I think I can honestly count the number of game shops, conventions, or even just geek-centric parties and gatherings where I felt completely comfortable on one hand... which is sad, because I used to work at a gaming shop. When I went to work, even though we didn't really have a dress code, I found myself purposefully "dressing down" to hide certain... assets, because otherwise when I was trying to teach someone how to play whatever card game they were interested in or discussing the latest D&D manual, I found that their eyes were rarely leaving my chest.

I had one gentleman more than 30 years my senior who made a game out of unsnapping my bra everytime I gave him a hug. It got to the point where I had to stop hugging him and physically distance myself because nothing was being done about it and anytime I complained to management, they laughed! Why? Because they were men and they didn't see why I was upset. It finally took threatening them with a sexual harassment suit for them to put a stop to it. I didn't feel comfortable wearing skirts, heels, or anything remotely girly because even when I went in basically wearing my then-boyfriend's clothes, I got hit on.

Hell, the first day I walked in to that shop and was just there as a customer, I had more than one comment and gesture made in regards to my appearance, and had more than one person there assume that not only was I shopping for my boyfriend or brother or something like that, but that I didn't know what I was talking about.

It is important for me to point out, of course, that I don't ONLY encounter this type of thing in geek-filled places. I used to work as a computer technician and I cannot count the number of customers who asked to speak to a male employee and not-so-subtly told me that because I was female, I couldn't possibly know anything about computers. Imagine their annoyance when the other employees referred them back to me for most of their questions and problems. I get it in hardware stores, auto shops, etc. Sexism exists everywhere, is my point, but honestly I have found it to be the worst in geek culture. Perhaps its the fact that outside of geek culture the men who do this obviously know that what they're doing and saying is wrong on some level and just don't care... perhaps its the near-innocence of male geek's behavior and outlooks that allows them to go to such extremes.

Whatever it is though, it drives me crazy. I haven't set foot in a gaming shop (not including video game stores) in years because frankly, it's just not worth the discomfort and embarassment.