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Author Topic: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James  (Read 30307 times)

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Offline Shjade

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #225 on: July 18, 2012, 05:48:12 PM »
Bert is definitely my favorite. "Did I really read that? Oh God, I did."

That slow-motion Bert .gif is going to haunt me.

The "Black Sweat" Prince shot of revulsion's a good choice, too.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 06:53:39 PM by Shjade »

Offline Will

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #226 on: July 18, 2012, 06:22:54 PM »
Yeah BUT how many million copies do you sell of your child's fingerpainting?  ;D

Shades isn't great, but it's better than I was expecting when I started reading this thread!  I thought 'it must have something' and it does.

What I'm saying about Gauguin is that it IS superior to (say) Warhol, but is it therefore invalid to enjoy Warhol?  Or opera may be superior to AC/DC, but they CAN coexist by appealing to different people.

We agree, then, I think.  Just slight semantic differences, if anything.  I do try and respect other people's tastes, even if I sometimes let my incredulity get the better of me. :P

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #227 on: July 18, 2012, 10:14:49 PM »
Oh, the characters are the worst of it.  Abusive relationships should not be glorified and made out to be "sexy" for a quick buck without people realizing that is just what they are.  It all comes back to why I hate "Twilight" so much: misogynistic, sexist bullshit should not be popularized and made to seem like it is romantic.

Twilight is Mormon religion propaganda rewritten into a Vampire Love story.  Stephanie Meyers more or less said so, not to mention that she IS a devout Mormon.

Offline Silverfyre

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Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #228 on: July 18, 2012, 10:24:58 PM »
Twilight is Mormon religion propaganda rewritten into a Vampire Love story.  Stephanie Meyers more or less said so, not to mention that she IS a devout Mormon.

Eh, how so?  Because the main female character is virginal and wants to wait for marriage?  As terrible as the books are, I don't see them as being Mormon propaganda as much as an abusive, self-insert Mary Sue fantasy of bad fiction.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #229 on: July 18, 2012, 10:51:10 PM »
Eh, how so?  Because the main female character is virginal and wants to wait for marriage?  As terrible as the books are, I don't see them as being Mormon propaganda as much as an abusive, self-insert Mary Sue fantasy of bad fiction.

Actually it's more than that.  First off, Bella WANTS sex.  It's...  Edward?  Edmund?  Who keeps her at bay.  The man is in control of the sex, and in this case wants to wait until marriage.  Which is a typical view of how women are in the Mormon faith.

Not to mention Bella's father, whose a gun collecting hunter that does nothing but clean his guns, watch sports and drink beer (Am I the only one who thinks that portrayal of a male figure as highly offensive?  Yes, I know some guys are like that, but I am not.)  She's the one with the household tasks, and it's not something she complains about, but rather accepts as 'proper behavior'.  Not that liking to tend house is wrong (my mother genuinely enjoys certain parts of it, but she also believes that her boys should learn to cook and clean for themselves), but it's implied that all good women are this way.

Here is a link of a young woman who read the book (I never went too far in it, the style of writing hurt me) and can explain it better than I can:

http://www.amplifyyourvoice.org/u/nikkigassley/2009/8/13/Feminism-Doesnt-Sparkle-What-Twilight-Teaches-Young-Girls


Offline Silverfyre

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Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #230 on: July 18, 2012, 11:14:34 PM »
But, those are hardly just Mormon beliefs. Those are traditional constructs and social values of the binary gender system. Sure, they are pretty sexist and restrictive in practice but they are not just religious values the Mormon church embraces. I think the series is a lame attempt at celibacy rather than someone trying to equate Mormon life through vampirism.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #231 on: July 19, 2012, 01:33:18 AM »
But, those are hardly just Mormon beliefs. Those are traditional constructs and social values of the binary gender system. Sure, they are pretty sexist and restrictive in practice but they are not just religious values the Mormon church embraces. I think the series is a lame attempt at celibacy rather than someone trying to equate Mormon life through vampirism.

You're right, of course.  They're NOT just typical Mormon beliefs, but the thing is, Mrs/Ms. Meyer IS Mormon, she's also a big fan of abstinence and celibacy AND she's outspoken and devout about her religion.  Whether or not those 'values' are shared among other belief systems doesn't matter here.  What matters is the writer's intentions.  And as a devout Mormon, her beliefs got in the way of her writing.

Now, here's the thing, and I'm pretty sure I'm going to offend someone, and that I sincerely apologize but that is not my intention.  However, the problem is that the Mormon belief system is rather anti-feminist, with a lot of it does promote unhealthy romantic relationships because of how they interpret their holy books.  Thing is there are some Christian and Catholic sects that promote more egalitarian beliefs, not to mention other religions that do the same.  The real issue is 'Humans', we tend to twist or misinterpret topics to suit our wants and needs, sometimes to unhealthy levels.

The fact of the matter is that most of the archetypes that Ms/Mrs. Meyer used are so one dimensional and clearly offensive on so many levels.

Offline Isobel

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #232 on: July 19, 2012, 04:13:10 AM »
We agree, then, I think.  Just slight semantic differences, if anything.  I do try and respect other people's tastes, even if I sometimes let my incredulity get the better of me. :P


OK cool  8-) .  Always hard to imagine other people's tastes.  Let me just make QUITE clear Shades is not 'my taste' tho  XD .  I wanted to see if there was something I could learn from it, and there is.


It has all kinds of faults but nevertheless vast numbers of people are enjoying it and I am starting to understand why.  I might change my mind yet, of course.

Offline Isobel

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #233 on: July 19, 2012, 04:49:12 AM »
Do 21-year-olds in America really say "Oh my!" as an exclamation?


I keep tripping over it.  E L James is a Brit, writing as an American of course; did she get that right or wrong?

Online Lilias

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #234 on: July 19, 2012, 04:52:09 AM »
Do 21-year-olds in America really say "Oh my!" as an exclamation?

The only person I've ever heard say 'Oh my!' is George Takei, and even that was scripted. >_<

Offline Water Lilly

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #235 on: July 19, 2012, 06:40:39 AM »
The "oh my" thing bugs the hell out of me. Not only is it unrealistic for someone her age to be saying it, I can't imagine them thinking it!!

Offline Psi

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Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #236 on: July 19, 2012, 07:00:58 AM »
Do 21-year-olds in America really say "Oh my!" as an exclamation?

No - its  OMG!!!!!!!!

Offline Avis habilis

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #237 on: July 19, 2012, 07:44:27 AM »
How do you pronounce ZOMG anyway? /offtopic

Offline Isobel

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #238 on: July 19, 2012, 08:48:40 AM »
The "oh my" thing bugs the hell out of me. Not only is it unrealistic for someone her age to be saying it, I can't imagine them thinking it!!


Yeah! I thought so.  It's strange no-one from the publishers picked it up.  Does it get any better later on? I've seen one 'Oh wow' so far.  If not I'm tempted to do an edit/replace myself!

Offline Water Lilly

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #239 on: July 19, 2012, 08:53:06 AM »
The oh my's continue. And honestly, I suspect this book was self published. There are so many typo's and mistakes that I can't imagine any publisher worth his salt letting it go to print the way it is...

Offline Isobel

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #240 on: July 19, 2012, 09:29:39 AM »
Ah, pity!  Yeah I can imagine it was self-published to start with, though now I see mine is published by The Writerís Coffee Shop "an up and coming independent publisher based out of New South Wales, Australia".  And someone is printing millions of paper books.  Perhaps they didn't want to change the original.


[/size]Though I've just submitted something to ForbiddenFiction and I'm pretty sure if I'd stuck 'oh my' on every other page they'd be telling me to think again lol.[/color]


Offline Avis habilis


Offline Dovel

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #242 on: July 19, 2012, 10:02:29 AM »

Offline Shjade

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #243 on: July 19, 2012, 10:10:37 AM »
How do you pronounce ZOMG anyway? /offtopic

Zawm-guh

Offline Silverfyre

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Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #244 on: July 19, 2012, 10:16:25 AM »
No, people don't tend to speak like they do in this book. I am beginning to think the writer has never heard a real conversation before.

Offline Shjade

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #245 on: July 19, 2012, 10:28:39 AM »
In her defense, I'm pretty sure the author was just mistakenly trying to portray her narrating character as Australian.

You know, from down there.

Offline Rolo

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Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #246 on: July 19, 2012, 10:29:05 AM »
It is as if she is trying to PG the book in an odd fashion.  It would be more credible if she would just use, "Oh Fuck!" instead of "Oh My".  But given her proclivity to over use words/phrases, I am sure we would be just as annoyed with that as well.

Offline Water Lilly

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #247 on: July 19, 2012, 10:30:11 AM »
In her defense, I'm pretty sure the author was just mistakenly trying to portray her narrating character as Australian.

You know, from down there.

Should I be offended by that, Shjade??  ;)

Offline Shjade

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #248 on: July 19, 2012, 10:41:49 AM »
Probably. ;p

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #249 on: July 19, 2012, 10:43:15 AM »
In her defense, I'm pretty sure the author was just mistakenly trying to portray her narrating character as Australian.

You know, from down there.

Well, the book does present itself as harmless and normal, hiding the fact that it is full of dangerous and horrible things that will permanently scar you after experiencing them...