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Author Topic: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James  (Read 30335 times)

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Offline Isobel

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #200 on: July 18, 2012, 03:41:26 PM »
Hate to break it to you, but most of it, is.  It's how marketing works, after all.  In fact all marketing relies on those three factors to various degrees.
I'm afraid you're mistaken  :-)


As I mentioned on Goodreads 38% of people who read and rated it gave it the maximum 5 stars.  That's not marketing.


You need to allow for other people to have different tastes from yours.  A LOT of people.  You really shouldn't despise them.


9% gave it one star, if that helps  ;D

Offline Oneiros

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #201 on: July 18, 2012, 03:42:59 PM »
Most of those 38% probably haven't read another book in years that wasn't suggested to them by some kind of book list. Yes, they liked it, but someone had to tell them to buy it first.

Offline Isobel

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #202 on: July 18, 2012, 03:49:55 PM »
It sure as hell isn't the writing, bad editing and paper-cut out, one dimensional characters.


Well there is plenty wrong with it, but there are redeeming features too.

Offline Silverfyre

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Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #203 on: July 18, 2012, 04:05:44 PM »
You are quoting one web site as your source of calculations but it hardly gives good, diverse representations of the demographic data.  Sure, it is selling a lot of copies and that IS marketing and publicity.  It does not make it a good book by any stretch of the imagination.  The publication business (which I've worked in for the last seven years as a publisher, a sales manager, an editor and a freelance writer) uses these tools to put out books that sell well.  Does it make them good? No, not at all.

There is hardly anything redeeming about this book save for perhaps how it illustrates how something that is even slightly off-tilter (Oooooh, it has BDSM elements! It must be edgy and unbelievably good!) to the main stream of popular culture can be made into a financial success. People are easily influenced by sensationalism and opinions. 

And apparently enjoy terrible literature. 

Offline Will

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #204 on: July 18, 2012, 04:07:11 PM »
I'm afraid you're mistaken  :-)


As I mentioned on Goodreads 38% of people who read and rated it gave it the maximum 5 stars.  That's not marketing.

It actually is, though, isn't it?  Those positive reviews are a form of marketing just as much as one of those big, attention grabbing displays in the chain bookstores.  Word of mouth is a pretty major sort of marketing.  This series of books in particular is being held up as an example of "viral" marketing in its most successful form.  Like it or not, publicity and marketing are by far the more important part of being a successful writer.  That's true for an artist of any kind, really!

You are right, though; people wouldn't be raving about the books if they hadn't found something they enjoy.  More power to them in that case.  I truly believe that it can only be because they've never read better, or just don't read very often at all.  I'm not passing judgement here (not much, anyway, I promise), and I honestly hope that the popularity of 50 Shades leads to more people reading more often, and a wider acceptance of, and market for, novel-length erotica.

I still think, from what I've seen (plot synopses only, so take it fwiw), that the books are pretty horribly sexist, unhealthy, and outright offensive to me, as someone who identifies deeply with the themes James played around with in her story.  But I guess that's par for the course, and I have a pretty thick skin, so whatever.  I'll get over it.

Offline Silverfyre

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Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #205 on: July 18, 2012, 04:10:22 PM »
Oh, the characters are the worst of it.  Abusive relationships should not be glorified and made out to be "sexy" for a quick buck without people realizing that is just what they are.  It all comes back to why I hate "Twilight" so much: misogynistic, sexist bullshit should not be popularized and made to seem like it is romantic.

Offline Will

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #206 on: July 18, 2012, 04:12:15 PM »
Oh, the characters are the worst of it.  Abusive relationships should not be glorified and made out to be "sexy" for a quick buck without people realizing that is just what they are.  It all comes back to why I hate "Twilight" so much: misogynistic, sexist bullshit should not be popularized and made to seem like it is romantic.

Truth.

Offline Isobel

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #207 on: July 18, 2012, 04:18:14 PM »
It actually is, though, isn't it?  Those positive reviews are a form of marketing just as much as one of those big, attention grabbing displays in the chain bookstores.  Word of mouth is a pretty major sort of marketing.  This series of books in particular is being held up as an example of "viral" marketing in its most successful form.  Like it or not, publicity and marketing are by far the more important part of being a successful writer.  That's true for an artist of any kind, really!

You are right, though; people wouldn't be raving about the books if they hadn't found something they enjoy.  More power to them in that case.  I truly believe that it can only be because they've never read better, or just don't read very often at all.  I'm not passing judgement here (not much, anyway, I promise), and I honestly hope that the popularity of 50 Shades leads to more people reading more often, and a wider acceptance of, and market for, novel-length erotica.

I still think, from what I've seen (plot synopses only, so take it fwiw), that the books are pretty horribly sexist, unhealthy, and outright offensive to me, as someone who identifies deeply with the themes James played around with in her story.  But I guess that's par for the course, and I have a pretty thick skin, so whatever.  I'll get over it.
Yeah well I might stop enjoying it later on, I am NOT into male domination whatsoever lol.

Meanwhile people only rate it high if they enjoy it.  Buy it because it's recommended.  What more are you demanding?  It's entertainment.  Personally I'm reading it pretty much as light humour so far.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #208 on: July 18, 2012, 04:21:53 PM »
So reading FSoG is basically literary masochism? That's ironically meta, in a fashion. :D

Offline Will

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #209 on: July 18, 2012, 04:23:12 PM »
Yo dawg, I heard you like abuse, so etc, etc, etc.

Offline Stone

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Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #210 on: July 18, 2012, 04:24:02 PM »
So reading FSoG is basically literary masochism? That's ironically meta, in a fashion. :D

Reading is masochism.

Offline Isobel

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #211 on: July 18, 2012, 04:30:10 PM »
You are quoting one web site as your source of calculations but it hardly gives good, diverse representations of the demographic data.  Sure, it is selling a lot of copies and that IS marketing and publicity.  It does not make it a good book by any stretch of the imagination.  The publication business (which I've worked in for the last seven years as a publisher, a sales manager, an editor and a freelance writer) uses these tools to put out books that sell well.  Does it make them good? No, not at all.

There is hardly anything redeeming about this book save for perhaps how it illustrates how something that is even slightly off-tilter (Oooooh, it has BDSM elements! It must be edgy and unbelievably good!) to the main stream of popular culture can be made into a financial success. People are easily influenced by sensationalism and opinions. 

And apparently enjoy terrible literature.
Well I started off just responding to a post quoting one Goodreads review, pointing out that there are 25,000 other reviews there.


If it's pernicious about relationships that is different, perhaps I'll come back when I get to that part.  Meanwhile I see some attraction in the writing, which I did think, given the popularity, had to be there despite its faults.


Literature is art, after all, and not everyone likes Gauguin or opera.

Offline Oneiros

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #212 on: July 18, 2012, 04:30:58 PM »
People liking stuff =/= it actually being good. Don't get me wrong. It's fine to admit you like something even if it sucks. I like lots of stupid crap. It's the people who gush about 50 Shades talking about how brilliant and compelling it is that depresses me. It's porn that is at worst very badly written (and kind of gross) and at best mediocre. It's neither compelling nor brilliant nor a lot of other words I've seen describing it.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #213 on: July 18, 2012, 04:32:06 PM »

Offline Will

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #214 on: July 18, 2012, 04:33:02 PM »
Literature is art, after all, and not everyone likes Gauguin or opera.

Even so, Gauguin had real skill, and good opera singers have it, too.  There is a clear distinction between a child's fingerpainting and a Gauguin piece.  If someone enjoys the fingerpainting, then that's great, but you can't pretend that the two are on the same level.

Offline Silverfyre

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Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #215 on: July 18, 2012, 04:35:07 PM »
Well I started off just responding to a post quoting one Goodreads review, pointing out that there are 25,000 other reviews there.


If it's pernicious about relationships that is different, perhaps I'll come back when I get to that part.  Meanwhile I see some attraction in the writing, which I did think, given the popularity, had to be there despite its faults.


Literature is art, after all, and not everyone likes Gauguin or opera.

Art is subjective but not being able to even write, spell or construct sentences correctly kind of makes it even less than art. It shouldn't even make it into novel format but hey, why waste money on quality control when it has the same plot as "Twilight" in it but with real people?! Money!

Literature, my ass.  I think I am calling it "back-up toilet paper" at this point.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 04:45:07 PM by Silverfyre »

Offline Rolo

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Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #216 on: July 18, 2012, 04:39:41 PM »
I wonder if McDonalds will pick up the marketing rights for the movie....  "Would you like the 50 SOG Dildo or Riding Crop with your Adult Meal Ma'am?"  Lol


Offline Isobel

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #217 on: July 18, 2012, 04:47:10 PM »
Even so, Gauguin had real skill, and good opera singers have it, too.  There is a clear distinction between a child's fingerpainting and a Gauguin piece.  If someone enjoys the fingerpainting, then that's great, but you can't pretend that the two are on the same level.
Yeah BUT how many million copies do you sell of your child's fingerpainting?  ;D

Shades isn't great, but it's better than I was expecting when I started reading this thread!  I thought 'it must have something' and it does.

What I'm saying about Gauguin is that it IS superior to (say) Warhol, but is it therefore invalid to enjoy Warhol?  Or opera may be superior to AC/DC, but they CAN coexist by appealing to different people.


Offline Stone

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Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #218 on: July 18, 2012, 04:50:00 PM »
Heretic.

Why? Because I refuse to acknowledge the glyph, and am my own stone? I'm outside the system, man, I'm one with the llama.   O8)

I wonder if McDonalds will pick up the marketing rights for the movie....  "Would you like the 50 SOG Dildo or Riding Crop with your Adult Meal Ma'am?"  Lol

No way. McD's is a family establishment. They would never call them dildos and riding crops. It'll be Happy Grey Glo Sticks and Pretty Pony Prancing Preeners.

Isobel, no, no. You mustn't perform sacrilege by comparing opera and hard rock. The former gets married men laid; the latter beds single men.  O8)

Offline Rolo

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Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #219 on: July 18, 2012, 04:52:39 PM »

No way. McD's is a family establishment. They would never call them dildos and riding crops. It'll be Happy Grey Glo Sticks and Pretty Pony Prancing Preeners.


Good Point!!  LMAO

Offline Oniya

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Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #220 on: July 18, 2012, 04:53:25 PM »
Isobel, no, no. You mustn't perform sacrilege by comparing opera and hard rock. The former gets married men laid; the latter beds single men.  O8)

So, what does this do?  O:)

Offline Isobel

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #221 on: July 18, 2012, 04:54:35 PM »
Art is subjective but not being able to even write, spell or construct sentences correctly kind of makes it even less than art. It shouldn't even make it into novel format but hey, why waste money on quality control when it has the same plot as "Twilight" in it but with real people?! Money!

Literature, my ass.  I think I am calling it "back-up toilet paper" at this point.
Yeah I was amazed when I saw it's all in present tense.  Though I don't think the run-on sentences and so on detract too much tbh, if you're basically into the story.

Anyway so far I'm tuning in to all the self-doubt; I think a lot of the enthusiasts will be identifying with that.  But early days.

Offline Isobel

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #222 on: July 18, 2012, 04:57:35 PM »

Isobel, no, no. You mustn't perform sacrilege by comparing opera and hard rock. The former gets married men laid; the latter beds single men.  O8)
Lol

Offline Lilias

Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #223 on: July 18, 2012, 05:02:00 PM »
So, what does this do?  O:)

That imbues Guardians of the Blind. ;)

Offline Silverfyre

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Re: Fifty Shades trilogy by E.L. James
« Reply #224 on: July 18, 2012, 05:04:52 PM »
That it does! /metal