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Author Topic: Trayvon Martin and the return of a quaint southern tradition.  (Read 12152 times)

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Offline elone

Re: Trayvon Martin and the return of a quaint southern tradition.
« Reply #200 on: May 18, 2012, 10:45:52 PM »
I'm with you Oniya. I would certainly call 1 - 18 inches point blank, but apparently that term is not used. When I saw the reference to 5 foot as intermediate range and a powder burn of 2 inches I decided to do a little research. Having a basic familiarity with firearms, that did not add up to me.

When reporters make statements without doing their homework it only exacerbates problems for people trying to understand the story. I suppose a lot of people will be dissatisfied with this case no matter what the outcome. I think the media has done a great disservice to justice in their reporting of less than factual statements for no other reason than sensationalism, as has the state of Florida with their laws. It seems to me that releasing all this information before a trial only makes it more difficult to find an untainted jury.

It will ultimately come down to whether a jury, if it gets to one, believes that Zimmerman acted in self defense, believing that Trayvon might take his weapon in the scuffle, or if Zimmerman instigated the confrontation physically and provoked an assault. The only person that really knows what happened is Zimmerman.

Offline Exelion

Re: Trayvon Martin and the return of a quaint southern tradition.
« Reply #201 on: May 25, 2012, 09:54:34 AM »
Have to agree with elone, but from the evidence we've seen thus far this is what I think happened.

Zimmerman was convinced Martin was up to no good. Confronted him. The two argued. Zimmerman made some derogatory comment or threat. Martin jumped him in anger. Zimmerman, already in a heightened state of panic because he thought Martin was a threat, reacted with a gunshot.

There's two big mistakes made here.

1. Zimmerman should have done as was instructed and stayed away from the kid unless he caught him actually committing an illegal act.
2. The first response to a physical assault should never be a fatal gunshot. Just brandishing the gun alone might have been enough of a deterrent.

That said, I do think Zimmerman acted improperly, and the killing of Trayvon Martin was in fact unlawful. However, I do NOT believe this was a racially motivated, intentional murder. I think ZImmerman was a bigoted idiot who let his fear cause him to act rashly. Negligent homicide? Sure. Manslaughter? Sure. Murder 1? Nope. I firmly believe he at no time had any intent to kill Martin.

Offline elone

Re: Trayvon Martin and the return of a quaint southern tradition.
« Reply #202 on: May 26, 2012, 11:54:23 PM »
Not real sure what evidence there is to support your opinion of the events. I have to wonder why you automatically assume that Zimmerman made a derogatory comment since you later state you do not believe it was racially motivated. I don't think he was in a state of panic. There was certainly no indication of panic in the call he made to the police to report Trayvon. Judging from the injuries to Zimmerman it is entirely possible that he feared losing his weapon to Trayvon. Had that happened and Trayvon shot Zimmerman, where would we be now?

Two big mistakes:
1. Zimmerman says he did do as instructed and was returning to his vehicle, and if he had caught him committing an illegal act he should never intervene, but wait for the police.
2.  Brandishing a firearm is a crime in many jurisdictions, not sure about Florida, but I would guess it is.


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Re: Trayvon Martin and the return of a quaint southern tradition.
« Reply #203 on: May 27, 2012, 12:27:58 AM »
The fact is that we don't know enough to judge.  I have a bit of experience in this area.  I only have the news reports to form an opinion, and they aren't enough for a final judgement.   My take so far:

1.  Zimmerman was the head of the local neighborhood watch, and in my opinion, he took his job too seriously.  His job was to watch, not to intervene.  He should have stayed in his car.

2.  Martin fit the description of a known burglar and home invader in that area.  Not his fault, but when you dress like a banger, you'll be treated like a banger.

3.  The physical evidence released so far indicates that Martin and Zimmerman had a physical altercation, that Martin broke Zimmerman's nose and knocked him to the ground, and that Zimmerman shot Martin at extremely close range. 

4.  The "Stand Your Ground" law is irrelevant in this case. 

This incident has been totally blown out of proportion by the media and by pundits on both sides of the issue.  It will be next to impossible for Zimmerman to get a fair trial, and the threats of violence by the New Black Panthers do nothing but inflame the issue further.

Everyone needs to step back, take a deep breath, and let the criminal justice system work.

Just my $0.02.

Offline Maiz

Re: Trayvon Martin and the return of a quaint southern tradition.
« Reply #204 on: May 27, 2012, 03:03:08 AM »
Trayvon Martin was wearing what kids wear. He was a kid. Don't blame what he was wearing because it gave Zimmerman no right to do what he did, just because he was wearing a hoodie.

Also the criminal justice system is so flawed, that it's laughable that someone thinks it works. This system is inherently racist and look at the fight it took to get Zimmerman even looked at for murder.

Offline Exelion

Re: Trayvon Martin and the return of a quaint southern tradition.
« Reply #205 on: May 27, 2012, 07:52:20 AM »
Not real sure what evidence there is to support your opinion of the events. I have to wonder why you automatically assume that Zimmerman made a derogatory comment since you later state you do not believe it was racially motivated. I don't think he was in a state of panic. There was certainly no indication of panic in the call he made to the police to report Trayvon. Judging from the injuries to Zimmerman it is entirely possible that he feared losing his weapon to Trayvon. Had that happened and Trayvon shot Zimmerman, where would we be now?

Two big mistakes:
1. Zimmerman says he did do as instructed and was returning to his vehicle, and if he had caught him committing an illegal act he should never intervene, but wait for the police.
2.  Brandishing a firearm is a crime in many jurisdictions, not sure about Florida, but I would guess it is.

The derogatory comment part is a guess. And keep in mind that doesn't mean "racist comment" it means insulting.

We known Zimmerman was told to wait, and refused.
We know Zimmerman had a history of profiling young black males.

Whether Zimmerman returned to his vehicle or not, he should have never approached the boy in the first place. Yeah, Martin acted in the wrong. He assaulted someone. We don't know with what provocation. But the fact remains that the only reason Martin was shot, in the end, is because Zimmerman went after him when he should not have. Therefore Zimmerman is in my eyes criminally culpable. I don't entirely blame him for shooting, fear makes you react. But he should never have antagonized Martin in the first place.

I think he acted in self-defense, but I also think he has a share of guilt for starting the situation when he was TOLD by law enforcement not to.