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Author Topic: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality  (Read 4380 times)

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Offline Chris Brady

Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2012, 06:15:52 PM »
I think what he meant, Pumpkin, is that you're not seeing his point.

The issue is, a girl, like yourself, at the age of sixteen, whose in love with this one guy.  You love him so much that you decide to snap some sexy pictures of yourself.  Let's assume, you send it, and like a good boy, keeps them to himself.  Unfortunately, bad luck happens and you are the one discovered.

Congratulations, you, Pumpkin Seeds are now the equivalent of a child molester.  Go straight to Jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.  You've been caught, and you WILL be prosecuted for Child Pornography.  You WILL be on the Register.  People WILL know when you wish to move into a neighbourhood, they won't know, and don't fucking care WHY, you are on the Registry for Child Molesters, and they WILL try and make your life a living hell until you move away.  Good luck getting into that neighbourhood in the first place, because no one will EVER hire you.  Not even McDonald's will take you.  And don't expect to finish school, anyway.  Which means Social Assistance, but that's not going to happen either.  Criminals are not allowed on that.  So, no income, ever.  No feasible way to get a decent home.  Hell, I know the local shelters (in Canada, mind you, the U.S. might be more lenient, but I honestly doubt it) won't let a convicted child molester in their doors.  Remember, that's what you ARE.  The law makes no differentiation as to how you got on the Registry, just that you are.  So now, you can't even get a roof over your head.

So your future, such as it is, is pretty much either requiring you to go underground and change your name.  Or, more likely a life of prostitution to some pimp, or a back alley porn actress, who hopefully doesn't get involved in snuff films.  That's pretty much the three options you have left for your life.

And all because you decided to take a picture of your underage self, on your bed, on all fours, maybe a side shot, nothing more than a little bit of boob showing, and sent to the boy you loved.  Who probably is facing the same damn problem.

Offline Serephino

Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2012, 12:23:22 AM »
I think Chris pretty much summed it up.  Teenagers do stupid crap.  They don't think anything bad will happen to them.  Why punish them for the rest of their lives for it?

Pumpkin, did you ever do anything as a teenager you regret?  Imagine that regret being public knowledge.  Every time you apply for a job, the potential employer knows about your shameful secret, and will judge you for it.  The only reason this is more of a problem now is advancement in technology.  When I was a teenager, if I wanted to send a naked picture to myself I needed a then expensive digital camera.  Now pretty much every cell phone has a camera and can get on the internet.

Once when my mom wasn't home my then boyfriend and some of his friends came over.  We got our hands on some vodka and got drunk.  I did a strip tease in front of all them.  Now I wish I hadn't, but then I was a drunk teenager.  If cell phone cameras had been common back then, I could be a sex offender because I was a drunken idiot. 

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2012, 01:30:06 AM »
Just a quick note here.  Hun, having grown men get a minor drunk and participate in a group striptease is not even near where this discussion is going.  I don't think there is anyone here that would consider that legal by any means.  Also, you would not be considered a sex offender if that was caught, the men in the room with you would be going to jail for a few reasons.  Contributing to the deliquency of a minor and a few sexual offenses against a minor would be among them.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2012, 01:35:59 AM »
Just a quick note here.  Hun, having grown men get a minor drunk and participate in a group striptease is not even near where this discussion is going.  I don't think there is anyone here that would consider that legal by any means.  Also, you would not be considered a sex offender if that was caught, the men in the room with you would be going to jail for a few reasons.  Contributing to the deliquency of a minor and a few sexual offenses against a minor would be among them.

I don't think you're following what he said. It was his friends. And it was a stupid teenage act. (I can relate.. I was the 'picked on kid' a bit in highschool and I got friends who years later went.. 'Shit..we'd go to jail for the shit we did to you.. or kill a kid that did that to my kid'..and apologize). I got a 25th year reunion coming up and let me tell you.. if some of these guys hadn't sought me out to apologize.. I wouldn't be going (save to possibly dance on a few of the bully's graves.. darwin has worked hard. As it is.. I figure a good 1/5th to 1/6th of the males in my class are in jail or dead now)

That being said.. I KNOW there was shit I did to others that was stupid, lame or crass.. and I know girls in school who would have done stupid things with a cell phone if they had it (A few polaroids were taken by one girl who eventually moved to her grandmothers to hide from the embarrasment when her ex put them on the school's bulletin board.. a cork board on the front of the school)

To imagine that you can't get a passport, have crappy jobs, report your whereabouts every year and be harrassed by your neighbors and watch where you live.. 2 and 1/2 decades later..with NO END in sight for a stupid teenage mistake is wrong. Even murderers get parole and can move on with their life.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2012, 01:38:45 AM »
Ah, I do apologize.  I read that as the mother's boyfriend and his friends.  Will teach me to post from work.

This once more though seems to be three issues of problems with the punishment, not so much the crime.  I have stated in each of my posts that areas are changing the laws to reflect the juevinile nature of the perpetrators and ammending the sentences.  Among those ammended punishments is not being included on the sex offender registry.  I am not seeing much argument against the girl getting in trouble, but more against the punishment given to her.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2012, 01:42:35 AM by Pumpkin Seeds »

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2012, 02:12:03 AM »
Ah, I do apologize.  I read that as the mother's boyfriend and his friends.  Will teach me to post from work.

This once more though seems to be three issues of problems with the punishment, not so much the crime.  I have stated in each of my posts that areas are changing the laws to reflect the juevinile nature of the perpetrators and ammending the sentences.  Among those ammended punishments is not being included on the sex offender registry.  I am not seeing much argument against the girl getting in trouble, but more against the punishment given to her.

That's the problem. Any attempt to reform the process, insert an appeal element or limit it to true sexual criminals that it was intended for has fallen flat on its face. Meanwhile kids, and adults, who shouldn't be on the register are on it and it destroys lives.

Offline Serephino

Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2012, 03:29:12 AM »
Changing things now doesn't help the people who's lives were already destroyed.  It should never have happened in the first place.  'Sexting' was seen as a growing problem, and a DA decided to make an example out of some kids to try and get national attention.

The girl in question and her dad were on one of the Dr. Phil episodes I happened to catch.  (Don't judge me there isn't much on in the daytime unless you like soaps)  The girl sent a sexually explicit picture to her boyfriend.  He was a dick and sent it to all of his friends.  They sent it to their friends, and so on...  It's a digital form of what happened to the girl Callie went to school with pretty much.  Except her dad got all pissed off and protective and ran to the authorities.  Never mind it was his idiot daughter that took the photo and sent it in the first place...  The DA got creative.  She won because technically, yes, possessing the picture of a naked girl under 18 is child pornography.  She won on a technicality.  The girl was 15 or 16 (not a very young child that the laws were meant to protect) and the girlfriend of the dick who shared the picture.  I wouldn't be surprised if they'd had sex before that.  But she had been humiliated and wanted justice to be served.  That was the first case, and it snowballed. 

Like I said, the only thing that's changed in teenage behavior is the technology.  I had to get my boyfriend and a few other friends over to the house and strip in person because webcams hadn't been invented yet.  Who knows what kind of shit my classmates and myself would have gotten ourselves into had the technology existed.  I discovered text messages my Junior year and had some fun with those.       

Offline Chaosfox

Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2012, 08:52:00 AM »
My display of “horrors” as made reference to is not simply to highlight a punishment of the child but also to show where the changes proposed can lead to victimization.  Hence, my argument as to why making alterations to the nature of child pornography can lead to dangerous loop holes and problems that can be exploited legally.  As was pointed out, the child pornography laws are at their essence to prevent predation by adults on children.  My “horrors” make an illustration of how those alterations allow for such predators to operate legally in the system, hence making demonstration of how the proposals are against the spirit and letter of the law.

Furthermore my assumptions are more accurately called scenarios, not assumptions, whereby I show the immediately noticeable problems of the discussed changes.  I do not assume that “Romeo” will show his friends such pictures, but simply postulate a scenario where “Romeo” does so.  This scenario is not far-fetched since this situation has occurred before, especially when “Romeo” becomes scorned by “Juliet.”  Also, there is not an assumption about “Juliet” possessing and distributing pictures of herself as illegal because if that was an assumption then this thread would not be made.  My argument, being that her act should be illegal, will continue to highlight the importance of keeping the laws the same though not necessarily the punishment.  My point and contribution to the argument is then that the laws are in place not to punish immature behavior, but to prevent minor from being preyed upon by adults.

Ambiguity is the enemy of law.  Prosecutors have a far easier time when an act is obviously illegal than when the circumstances could make an act illegal.  For instance the student and teacher scenario.  Under current laws the teacher is arrested for possessing child pornography, there is no question of whether the pictures were given freely or under coercion to make the teacher’s act legal.  The predator in this case is taken into custody and prosecuted at the very least for possessing the pictures and prosecution can later sort through the facts to lay on additional charges.  The student may be prosecuted if she is believed to have freely distributed the pictures, as in distribution of child pornography, but the prosecution is then discerning whether she was coerced or not.  The predator is now behind bars hence protecting other potential victims.  The case of the “Seven Veils” is similar to this now where the prosecution is putting in jail the father and “friend” for viewing the act.  Predators are put into prison and the prosecution is instead left to discern if the act was performed willingly or not. 

I do not suggest that the college student or the teacher should be prosecuted if the pictures are simply sent to them without their suggestion of the pictures.  Just as I am sure you are not suggesting that entire laws should be rewritten because someone cannot find the delete button on their email.

Now toward a comparison of self-distributed child pornography and statutory rape.  The reason there is an immediate need to prosecute the adult in this case and not the child as in the other case is because an adult is involved.   The adult is supposed to know better despite the immature antics of a child attempting to seduce them, if that is the reported case.  An adult is not allowed the luxury of immaturity to rule and excuse their actions.  New York essentially said that under the age of 21, someone who is allowed to vote and join the military, is not mature enough to avoid having sex with a minor.  Were the photographs of the 16 year old in question sent to an adult, the adult would be prosecuted for receiving the pictures and not properly reporting and disposing of them.  Coercion of some sort is assumed in the case of the adult because the adult is supposed to know better.  The adult is the figure of authority and guidance, not the minor. 

The case of the girl with the photographs, her pictures was distributed to another minor.  There was not adult involvement in the act so she distributed the pictures of her own free will, meaning that she has to take responsibility for performing the act.  There was not adult involvement to claim that she was being manipulated, no figure with maturity implied to know better, so the law had to turn toward the person performing the act.  In this case the girl in the case took the pictures, distributed them and so is the instigator of the situation.  Laws currently are only equipped with the punishments used to address adults distributing child pornography, not children distributing pictures of themselves with cellphones and email.  Law is slow to change unfortunately.

The consensus that I see in this situation is that people have a problem with the punishment and not so much the prosecution.  As I pointed out, a few states and areas are beginning to make adjusts to the law in light of the current problem so that children that are distributing their own images of child pornography are tried under a juvenile court and not an adult one.  Better to alter the punishment then to suddenly rewrite the laws of what child pornography is, who can lawfully distribute child pornography and who can lawfully possess child pornography.

The idea that distribution of underage photographs is acceptable between minors is also a dangerous one.  For one, keep in mind that girls are not the only ones needing education in the dangers of sending their nude bodies to other people.  I do find some humor that girls have to be educated but boys are fine showing their genitals to the world.  Child pornography distribution as allowed by this under 18 ok ruling would allow a 17 year old to possess pictures of a 9 year old naked.  For the most part this conversation has been dealing with 16 year olds because of the case in particular and the ease of people to argue for a 16 year old being naked.  Do keep in mind that child pornography is 18 and under (typically) and that under part extends far beyond 16.

Pumpkin I see where you are coming from and you are right in way change can create other loop holes and probably cause a whole other set of problems. But that is what change does (well for the most part in my experience it does) but that doesn't mean that a change wont help either Now On to what does bug me about the above quote Yes you are right child pornography is considered 18 and how ever lets say and this is just all hypothetical thinking of course but let us say that we change the definition to child porn from under 18 to under 16? Of course this opens up an whole new can of worms in itself but it solves the last part that you asked about at the end of your post that I have quoted. And In the process you can see that though one problem is solved another arises in the fact that people dot want there 16 year old participating in porn but it is now considered  a legal act so if the teen can get out or has a car there is no way that parent can stop them from participating at some point i they wanted to.  I guess all in all what i am saying make it legal or not you still have issues and problems that you have to deal with.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2012, 09:17:53 AM »
Any alteration in law is going to typically leave others without the benefit of the rule change.  Laws take time to be changed and altered, there will be unfortunate causalities.  That does not mean that hasty decisions and alterations have to be made.  Children break many rules and I have broken rules in the past, but nobody redefined vandalism so that I could avoid punishment for a Halloween prank.  Nobody redefined assault because young boys get into fights or car theft because kids like to joy ride.  The punishments were adjusted to suit the immature nature of children and preserve their futures from these mistakes.  Therefore, do not redefine what child pornography is and its distribution but rather adjust the punishment of the crime to preserve the futures of the children.

Chaosfox, you do realize that a 16 year old cannot legally sign a contract?  A parent has to give permission for them to work and they are not even able to own property.  So in order for a 16 year old to make pornography legally, their parents would have to sign off on the 16 year old doing such a thing.  At the age of sixteen an adult is able to access their bank account because the parent is the legal guardian of that child.  So is there comfort in knowing that the legal guardians of a 16 year old girl signed off on her performing sexual acts on video for money that they also have ready access to?  Maybe the girl or boy signed up because at that age they already knew pornography was the line of work for them, or perhaps there is some coercion going on within that family structure.

What I do find interesting at this point is the contradiction in statements regarding the distribution of photographs of this nature.  Images were painted originally of young women, showing their skin as an act of pride in their sexuality and a desire to show their love for another.  They would snap a picture of themselves naked and send that image to their boyfriend that would cherish the image.  Then of course people give real life commentary where the pictures end up being distributed and the “idiot” girl publically embarrassed.  Where a girl has to move in order to escape ridicule.  There are other people that have had to do the same things, typically though people do not call them “idiots” because they are being bullied.  This girl sent her nude photograph to her boyfriend that betrayed her trust and posted those images or distributed them to others.  She made a mistake as has been claimed so many times in this thread and suddenly she is the “idiot girl” with the overprotective father?

Also, how can you say that the child protection laws were not really meant to protect a 15 and 16 year old girl?   She is a child that is what the child protection laws are meant to protect, CHILDREN.  How does sleeping with him change the fact that he distributed her picture to others?  Because she has sex with a man then he has the right to flash her nude picture to whomever he chooses?  The DA did not have to be creative with this case, the boy was distributing pictures of a minor to people and they were distributing those pictures to others. 

Offline Chaosfox

Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2012, 10:49:31 AM »
I will Concede to all your points but one a 16 year old does not need parental permission to work.  How ever there are restraints on how many hours a week they can work and what times they have to be of bye on school nights. Also There are circumstances where a teen has divorced there parents and the parents no longer have a say. Again my point was to show that change can cause problems me personally I am on a line I dont think that 16 year old should not be sending nude photos but that is because transmissions can be intercepted phones can be read from a distance with the use of certain technologies and hackers can intercept e-mails ( I just got done taking and Information System Security class) but at the same time I dont think we need to put a 16 year old on the Register as a sex offender should they be punished yes but not to the exit that you punish a perverted old man who is downloading child porn and doing things with little kids. I mean Do you give the same punishment to someone who assaulted a person that lived as you do to a person who kills someone?

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2012, 02:58:52 PM »
http://www.economist.com/node/14164614

Tell me how this was fair to the Whitaker family.

Or, for example, how an overwhelming need to pee results in a lifetime of shame and lost opportunities. I fail to see how a simple revision of the rules of entry or a simple evaluation process to scrub people from the list. 

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2012, 03:30:39 PM »
Callie, I have repeatedly stated that I do not approve of the sex registery list.  I have pointed out several times that I agree that the children in this case do not belong on that list.  If you want to debate the sex offender list, then I recommend another thread.  I have stated many times that the punishments for the minors involved in these cases should not include inclusion on the sex offender list and that many places where the laws are being revised do not include that stipulation for minors.  I do not understand where this continued empashsis on the sex offender list is coming from since I have many times stated that the punishment should be revised, not the laws themselves.  I believe in almost every post I have made that is the point.

Offline Serephino

Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2012, 04:30:45 PM »
I don't think I ever said anything about a girl being proud of her sexuality.  Someone else did, but not me.  I'm the one that called the girl an idiot, and stand by that opinion.  It was a dumb thing to do.  I also said her boyfriend was a dick for sharing with his friends, but I don't think he deserves to be considered a sex offender for being an asshole.

Also, being punished for a Halloween prank, while kind over the top, doesn't affect you the rest of your life.  Juvenile records are sealed, unless of course you're a sex offender.  Being charged with assault doesn't leave you living under a bridge which you have to make sure is far enough away from schools and public parks.

Offline SilentScreams

Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2012, 01:40:39 PM »
The reason why a 16 year old can consent yet cannot be in pornographic material is because of a conflict of laws. In the US there is no federal age of consent. Each state is allowed to set its own age of consent for the citizens living within its borders (if the age in your state is 18, for example, and you are 20 but your partner is 16 and you travel to a neighboring state where the age of consent is 14 you have broken the law). Now, with the example I added, albeit briefly, that illustrates the problem this case presents.

The federal government is responsible for, among too many other things, the regulation of interstate commerce since each state's nominal jurisdiction ends at its borders (yes, there are long arm statutes, and a host of other ways around but trying to keep it simple). The United States Code, or USC, is where all the federal laws may be found. Within the USC you will find that the federal government has set the age of consent to be featured in pornographic material is 18.

Now, if you are still reading, here we approach the long awaited end.

Alright, so each state can set their age of consent, most states set the age at 18, the same age at which you are considered legally an adult, can vote, and can star in porn. Several states have ages of consent lower then this. However, those states MUST follow the federal law because there is no conceivable, practical way in which pornography produced in one state can not be transported into another state, thus violating federal law.

I think that's more complicated then I wanted it to be....the reason this situation can happen is because the federal government has set the age of consent for pornographic material at 18. There is no way, regardless of if it is for monatery gain or not, something produced in one state can be 100% guaranteed to not be transported (traditional methods, internet, etc.) into another. As a result the age of consent is not linked to the age to appear in porn. The porn age is the age of legal adulthood in our federal system. The age of consent is set by each local state jurisdiction and may be younger then 18 but cannot be older then 18 because at 18 federal law steps in to settle the issue by declaring you a legal adult.

OK, wow, I'm just going to give up because I don't think that was any less complicated...~frowns~ oh well, hope it helps.

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Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2012, 03:27:24 PM »
Actually, that does clear up a lot.  d ;D b

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2012, 03:56:34 PM »
That does make alot of sense actually.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2012, 04:06:01 PM »
Interstate commerce is a pivot point on that argument. Definitely covers why Porn has to be 18+

Still need to fix the admission/appeal process on the list though. Shame it would be easier to fix the porn age than that. :(

Offline SilentScreams

Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2012, 04:22:23 PM »
Which admission/appeal process?

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2012, 04:24:52 PM »
Callie has an obsession with the sex offender list. 

Offline SilentScreams

Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2012, 04:41:17 PM »
Yeah, I don't think I'll be jumping into that particular hornets nest.

Although, I will say that it is entirely too easy to get added to that list and as our society moves more and more towards a police state where everyone is guilty of some such thing or other the reasons for being included do seem to be expanding at an exponential rate.

I read a case where a girl was added to the list for flashing a cop during at a traffic light during a college block party, for which they had a permit.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #45 on: February 28, 2012, 05:08:10 PM »
Callie has an obsession with the sex offender list.

I have a friend that nearly wound up on it because of a lying spouse and I KNOW I've done things when I was a kid that were brushed off as stupid that would have gotten me on the list if I did them today.

I'm sorry if I think that kids doing stupid things and getting branded for life is wrong and that by pushing them onto it we're over burdening the law enforcement groups responsible for enforcing it. That allows offenders to get away with voilations. (I had one offender get caught living a block away from me in Maine and I can open a back window and with a good throw put something in the back side of a school and see two more from where I lived.)

The law is rapidly becoming a massive behemoth that is all but impossible to enforce in some jurisdictions. Without reform on the front end and an appeal process, you're going to get more and more 'stupid' acts that destroy lives forever.

Offline SilentScreams

Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #46 on: February 28, 2012, 05:30:30 PM »
I agree with you. We are too quick to condemn. Lots of people do stupid things when young, but now you get in trouble for almost all of it. It's total nonsense. It's a drive to make everyone guilty of something, to put a skeleton in everyone's closet so no one stands up for and defends anyone else least their "secret" gets released. 

Offline Chris Brady

Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #47 on: February 28, 2012, 08:57:09 PM »

This once more though seems to be three issues of problems with the punishment, not so much the crime.  I have stated in each of my posts that areas are changing the laws to reflect the juevinile nature of the perpetrators and ammending the sentences.  Among those ammended punishments is not being included on the sex offender registry.  I am not seeing much argument against the girl getting in trouble, but more against the punishment given to her.
Because her only crime is stupidity.  A crime I'm pretty sure we've all been guilty of at some point.  There was no malice, no intent to commit a crime.  She just wanted to show off to a boy she liked.  And now, she's in the same boat as a child molester.  For one single act, at sixteen.  Two years before being a legal adult.

Seriously, she shouldn't have been arrested/charged/convicted in the first place.  The punishment is the straw that broke the llama's back.

Offline SilentScreams

Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #48 on: February 28, 2012, 09:45:53 PM »
If the jurisdiction she was convicted in uses a version of the model penal code and does not use (as most jurisdictions do not) the old common law definitions the crime has nothing to do with malice. The statute would probably be written something similar to "if a person with intent, or knowingly, or recklessly makes pornographic images, or videos, or materials, of a minor available to anyone else said person is guilty of...."
I'm sure that she fulfilled the statutory requirements or else they wouldn't have been able to charge, let alone prosecute her. She did take pictures of an underage girl (it doesn't matter it was herself) and she did, with intent, distribute those pictures (it doesn't matter to whom the pictures went.)
It's one thing to question the wisdom behind the prosecution, or question the justice of such an act but from a legal perspective the girl did satisfy the statutory definition of the crime.
Furthermore, even if a judge, or a prosecutor wanted to help her, with the advent of minimum sentencing standards in many jurisdictions, they may have been legally forbidden from doing so.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: When a law turns into a Paradox - Youth and Sexuality
« Reply #49 on: February 28, 2012, 10:55:59 PM »
I wasn't talking law (Which has nothing to do with Justice) I was talking about her intent.  And the problem is that the Law doesn't care about intent when doling out punishment.