You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 08, 2016, 04:07:50 AM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: The Future of Space Exploration  (Read 3646 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Frelance

Re: The Future of Space Exploration
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2012, 12:38:27 AM »
There is a more cost effective way of launching space craft that just need to get to orbit. Instead of having the craft carry all there fuel you load them with water and then super heat the water with lazers so the craft is sent into orbit on steam. If you skip to about 2:20 in this video there is an explanation that is a bit clearer than my words.
Why We Can't "Fire the Photon Torpedoes"

With production of ships in space I believe we can bypass the expense of transporting materials from the earth’s surface into orbit by mining the moon. So we can build a colony on the moon and use the materials that are dug out to build the ships we need. I am not expert but from what I have read and watched it does not seem that far out of our grasp.

I would love to see asteroid mining start because we could just hollow out an asteroid then use the shell as the hull to a ship and fill it with what is needed afterwards. The bad thing about mining asteroids is all the precious metals that would be injected into the economy could cause it to crash if its not handled properly.



If what Merah said about space elevators does happen then there would be a very easy way to transport people and materials from say a colony on the moon back to earth or the other way around. That could mean that specific parts of ships could be built on earth then just sent up while the materials to build the parts are being sent down from an asteroid or the moon.

They have started human testing with suspended animation and there has been some success so we may just have cryo sleep in the near future.

http://www.wimp.com/suspendedanimation/


There is a lake that has been frozen under the ice of antartica for I think millions of years. They are developing a drill that will melt the ice in front of it and then freeze it behind itself so that it does not contaminate the lake when it drills into it. The reason for this is that they do not want to contaminate the lake since the whole point is that it has been isolated for so long that they are interested in seeing how live has evolved differently in the lake then in the rest of the world.

Anyway the reason I am bringing this up is that one of the space programs is paying for the R&D for experiment and the probe because they want to use the same technology when they send a probe to Europa.

So if that continues hopefully we will have a working probe to send to Europa fairly soon.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2012, 12:49:30 AM by Frelance »

Offline Tamhansen

Re: The Future of Space Exploration
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2012, 06:41:24 AM »

With production of ships in space I believe we can bypass the expense of transporting materials from the earth’s surface into orbit by mining the moon. So we can build a colony on the moon and use the materials that are dug out to build the ships we need. I am not expert but from what I have read and watched it does not seem that far out of our grasp.

I would love to see asteroid mining start because we could just hollow out an asteroid then use the shell as the hull to a ship and fill it with what is needed afterwards. The bad thing about mining asteroids is all the precious metals that would be injected into the economy could cause it to crash if its not handled properly.


Plus, considering the importance of the moon to Earth's atmosphere, mining the moon might have unforeseen consequences. Considering the rather low density of the Moon, any mining operation would have to assure that they wouldnt bring irreparable damage. Because if the moon became to damaged, the tides on earth, and thus marine life would be art risk.

Offline Tiberius

Re: The Future of Space Exploration
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2012, 07:04:20 AM »
Easy to fix, if there is sufficent technology to mine the moon, then there should be sufficent technology to artificially create *mine-filler* an element that has equal weight/density to what was removed. Say you just fill it in with something useless but still has the same mass so it doesn't damage the weight of the moon.

And there is the thing about the moon's unstable orbit and without any form of correction, it will become to far away from Earth for this planet to exert enough gravity to keep it in orbit in like 30 million years or so, then we suddenly have no moon and it turns into a rogue planetoid and likely goes and obliterates Mars or Venus after crashing into it.

Offline Zakharra

Re: The Future of Space Exploration
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2012, 11:32:15 AM »
Plus, considering the importance of the moon to Earth's atmosphere, mining the moon might have unforeseen consequences. Considering the rather low density of the Moon, any mining operation would have to assure that they wouldnt bring irreparable damage. Because if the moon became to damaged, the tides on earth, and thus marine life would be art risk.

I'd think that is a very very small consideration since by the time humanity would have mined enough ores from the mood to change it's density, there will be other larger sources of ores. T

Offline RubySlippers

Re: The Future of Space Exploration
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2012, 01:45:38 PM »
Well you asked so here is my response.

Space exploitation as is being considers is to big and far to important to leave to individual government it must be a Global effort with all major and minor nations involved.

Seriously NASA and the US alone cannot do it all this is a species effort our species to leave our home and build homes and efforts to gain raw materials elsewhere in our solar system and then beyond, its to big and to important for petty differences of nations. That is why its not going to happen for the foreseeble future no one government can do it and when we get out there do you want the govenment baggage along with it?

And no companies or private interests can do this without a major planetwide support structure.

So I say form a serious multinational space agency under the UN combining the capabilities and resources of the nations to do this its the only option.

Offline MissFemdom

Re: The Future of Space Exploration
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2012, 04:48:34 PM »
I think I will have the most negative opinion about the space quest perspective. In my opinion, space research is dead for at least, 10 years. Technology from Apollo and Mercury programs has been lost (too much generations and a gigantic program (plenty of incoherences and technical problems) such as the Space Shuttle) and new powerful countris are still far from acheiving the necessary technology to launch a realistic space program.

Look at the space programs: the US say that they are preparing a new launcher for 2025 and the BRIC (Brasil, Russia, India and China) are thinking in ICBM launchers for military purposes. What do we have? Geopolitical interests and military supremacy.

I think that it is a shame for humans but we will only have a great period for space research if we have (probably in the next 10 years) a new "Cold War" between China and United States. But I'm almost sure that a global research union will never exist because there are too much political and strategic interests. Usually, space launchers come from military technology and in the world current situation no powerful country will transfer its military and space-related technology to competitors.

Finally, which could be the interest for a country to perform a research in space? For humans and science we could find a lot of interests, but in the american neo-liberalism conception, no money perspective = no investment. And that's it. Nasa is nowadays ridiculous if we compare to 70' to 90' Nasa...

But I don't know, some hope remains inside me.

Offline AndyZ

Re: The Future of Space Exploration
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2012, 10:53:23 AM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-based_solar_power

If you ever played Sim City, you're already familiar with the concept of sending solar panels into space and having them beam back energy at a much more efficient rate than earthbound solar panels.

If you believe in human-made climate change, this seems to be an absolute necessity.  Earthbound solar panels just don't cut it, not only because of clouds and nighttime but our atmosphere blocking so much of the power.

If this technology is important, and the government isn't going to do it, then private businesses will have to build up enough capital in order to create and maintain the technology.

Much of this will have to get too political for me to go into serious details on the hows and whys, but as an oversimplification, this is something involving space which can have serious profit potential once it gets going.

Offline shooter6806

  • Iridescent S's husband, Righter of Wrongs
  • Knight
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Location: Your wildest dreams
  • Gender: Male
  • No matter where you go......there you are.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: The Future of Space Exploration
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2012, 05:19:57 PM »


If you ever played Sim City, you're already familiar with the concept of sending solar panels into space and having them beam back energy at a much more efficient rate than earthbound solar panels.

If you believe in human-made climate change, this seems to be an absolute necessity.  Earthbound solar panels just don't cut it, not only because of clouds and nighttime but our atmosphere blocking so much of the power.

If this technology is important, and the government isn't going to do it, then private businesses will have to build up enough capital in order to create and maintain the technology.

Much of this will have to get too political for me to go into serious details on the hows and whys, but as an oversimplification, this is something involving space which can have serious profit potential once it gets going.

What he said.  The proponents of "green energy" push solar power hard.  Ground-based solar is intermittent.  It cannot be used for a power grid.  Put the solar panels in space, where the sun never sets, and it becomes not only cost-effective but the ultimate answer for our power needs.

The downside - it would take $500 billion and 15 to 20 years to build the necessary infrastructure and get the system working.

The upside - Limitless clean electricity for the entire world.  With sufficient electricity, we could have economical fuel-cell cars, trucks, and aircraft.  Petroleum would be needed only for making plastics and the like.  Power is everything.  With electricity, you have modern society.  Without it, you're in the Dark Ages or worse.

In addition, nearly every resource that is currently thought to be getting scarce on Earth is available in limitless (for our purposes) quantities in our solar system.

In space, it's raining soup.  And we keep building forks.  We need to start building spoons.

Offline MissFemdom

Re: The Future of Space Exploration
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2012, 05:24:39 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-based_solar_power

If you ever played Sim City, you're already familiar with the concept of sending solar panels into space and having them beam back energy at a much more efficient rate than earthbound solar panels.

If you believe in human-made climate change, this seems to be an absolute necessity.  Earthbound solar panels just don't cut it, not only because of clouds and nighttime but our atmosphere blocking so much of the power.

If this technology is important, and the government isn't going to do it, then private businesses will have to build up enough capital in order to create and maintain the technology.

Much of this will have to get too political for me to go into serious details on the hows and whys, but as an oversimplification, this is something involving space which can have serious profit potential once it gets going.

If you consider the entire lifecylce, solar energy is one of the less efficient and the more contaminant. Materials needed to construct a solar panel are extremely dangerous and bad for the earth. And sending solar receptors to the space is really expensive and won't be possible during the next 30 years (we are still trying to build a commercial plane for space tourists at Virgin Space...).

To be honest, I think we should forget space for a while...

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: The Future of Space Exploration
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2012, 08:53:01 PM »
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/23/11339522-billionaire-backed-asteroid-mining-venture-starts-with-space-telescopes

Good to see that not everyone is being short sighted. The pay off if these guys can pull things off in 10 to 20 years is mind boggling. They are looking for platinum ores and water mostly.. Water would used for a ''fuel farm' in orbit. The ores.. well if they find a 'rich' rock with the ores they are looking for they will VASTLY change the availablilty of a LOT of ores such as iridium and so on.

It is definitely interesting and I wish them lots of luck. I also how they luck out early.. and that others would look for ways to join in.

Offline NotoriusBEN

Re: The Future of Space Exploration
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2012, 01:34:58 AM »
http://www.fastcompany.com/1769468/scientist-discover-the-oldest-largest-body-of-water-in-existence-in-space

I thought this article is cool for showing just how much useful stuff there is in the universe.

Basically, it talks about there being enough water in this one space-cloud for every single man, woman and child to have their own waterworld... 20 THOUSAND TIMES OVER. Of course it is on the other side of the visible universe... but still... wow.

Offline Kate

Re: The Future of Space Exploration
« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2012, 10:22:30 PM »
Merah is right.

A Space elevator would figuratively dispense of a lot of issues sending processed goods in the heavens. Of course there are resources up there (asteroids, titanium on moons etc) but a refinery / manufacturing plants IN The heavents to build bigger things is idea. (Yes you can drop it all back down to earth as raw materials also).

One major if this wasnt a global effort (IE if private enterprise was allowed, then the distance between rich and poor is out of control, forever, especially if they can send themselves up there. (Assuming capitalism stays effectively the same). This means that "little girl that wants a dream come true" just sees others having that dream. A dream that "humanity can do it" and "I want to be part of it" are VERY different objectives. What peoples dreams are is that "I want to be part of this, I want to be part of the exploration team". The little girl/boy dream of "Space exploration" isnt satisfied if someone says "We met an alien race that can and does but will not share it with you OH we also have some super rich people/companies that can but they are not interested in bringing you on for the ride, why aren't you smiling ?"

Best option with current know how and capitalistic focus is material engineering (Trying to make new exotic materials to see what they can do / can give immediate returns but not build any craft yet with what we have already.

As far as "space exploration isnt a waste of cash gave us this tech and the other" compared to the investment, the SAME investment in high tech research labs etc ... would have given more I believe (Subjective)

*

IF the world REALLY REALLY wants space exploration, don't give it to NASA or an institution that doesn't have to answer to many or can have their own secrecy. I would love to say the "UN" would be ok but it has similar issues concerning "truth / information management / which powers should be pleased / under the table bargains etc"

This is what you do, you make more "X prizes" - ie FAME, prestige.

(the X prize reward was a LOT less than how much it cost to claim it... but it happened anyway for a reason )

"You want to go down in history books ? We need an alternative energy and propulsion system BETTER than what we have, the first 10 DIFFERENT methods take money and a lot of it, but its not about the money.

It doesn't stop at 1, you get 1 billion dollar rewards for proving it works, there IS NO technology or methodology or mathmatics or science or established truths that we will put constraints on/ You want to try cold fusion again ?

Forget the previous history of it being a bad choice or full of rubbish - go for it. As long as your not polluting the planet or destroying eco systems or doing unethical stuff ... money is yours, instant honorary Nobel prizes, History full of how damn good you are AND the first star ships we will name after you lot ... AND we will make plagues of you in space etc

Feel free to collaborate BUT your papers / everything is public domain ONLY, this is for the people, for humanity, for the world. And these people who discover this and prove it works, will be the first "Citizens of the universe' ! We will sing your name not because you worked it out but because you worked it out and gave it to EVERYONE.

Oh we also are open to new age stuff, astral travel via telepathic means / psychic means, that is still fine IF You can prove it ! That may mean you need to fund a shitty probe to some dark corner to match the drawing / sketch your psychics claim they "visited in the current time" ...  Others who claim Remote viewing shown to frauds ? Doesnt mean you will be, others tried to fly with machines before, their failed attempts doesn't mean that Flying machines are not possible.

For us to be serious about solutions, we are and will stay seriously open-minded."

This gives universities / smaller groups incentives to team up with others.

Most academics are not profit motivated, they are "what can be done, stumped others sure, but I am going to give it ago, the world is too wondrous to believe this isn't possible. Can't get off this carasell, cant get off this world ? Nah sayers can fuck off. They can talk to the hand, Why ? simple, I have a plan, i think so and so was a little overlooked by others, a few things dont add up in a way that i think has potential. I'm too special to be limited to this planet. Stars shine for me !"

Home hobbyists do try and replicate Tesla's stuff (which has one major draw back - that of materials being strong enough to deal with some forces etc, he was a man before his time) with their own cash, some outstandingly successfully. This makes them have an incentive to get together. Soon as a few do ... money will come from private industry and governments alike to help them out.

One thing I do agree with concerning conspiracy theories of "have we already got some alien / UFO technology?" is that with the current climate of

Golden rule 1: Whoever has the gold makes the rules
Golden rule 2: Whoever has power has the gold
Golden rule 3: Whoever has the rules controls information
Golden rule 4: Whoever controls information controls everything.

(which is unfortunately true practically)

.. is if it is POSSIBLE to discover something and it wasn't done academically with prestige motivating, but something else... then "I think we should keep this our secret, if you cant you disappear and it becomes mine.. " is inevitable.

There is just TOO much to gain by being selfish if Prestige isnt trumpeted first, loudest always as the incentive.

A song or Kennedy speech would help no-end.

Babylon Zoo - Spaceman (Original Version - HQ Audio)

As strange as it may be, if new forms of FYL was discovered the BEST person for it to be in the hands of would be ...

.... Lady Ga ga, who thinks

"fuck refining this before I tell someone about it.. its going to be part of my new set ...  Show time Peeps !! Time for you all go to ga ga ... !! I wanna be what proves that little girl/ little boy dream of "ITs true Im part of this". I AM them, they are you, you are MEEEE !! Look at MEEE !! Give me attention !!! "

« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 10:27:54 PM by Kate »

Offline RubySlippers

Re: The Future of Space Exploration
« Reply #37 on: June 19, 2012, 08:49:36 PM »
The world is broke where do you plan to get the money for such grandiose plans?

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: The Future of Space Exploration
« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2012, 09:01:00 PM »
'The World' is not 'broke'.  There's a really crappy distribution of wealth right now, but the money exists, probably stuffed into Swiss bank accounts, Cayman Island tax shelters, and corporate jets.

Offline Kate

Re: The Future of Space Exploration
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2012, 05:34:12 AM »

Make tax on inheritance (capital gains)
"tax is x cents to the dollar per transaction".
Have transparent personal accounts (all can see who owns what).
Overhaul ownership rules.

Ie overhaul capitalism.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: The Future of Space Exploration
« Reply #40 on: June 20, 2012, 07:20:00 AM »
'The World' is not 'broke'.  There's a really crappy distribution of wealth right now, but the money exists, probably stuffed into Swiss bank accounts, Cayman Island tax shelters, and corporate jets.

Okay I will rephrase with the ones that matter that have this wealth and the power that goes with it, the Global Elites that run things - how will you get them to agree to all this they don't care about the masses?

The only way you will is put their butts in the hot seat and this would require a space threat so large they must commit resources to save their collective selves, or there is an alien invasion or the planet is not habitable and they want to leave and take support staff with them. In short scenarios not likely to happen in our lifetimes so why would they bother?

You want to move against them fine but they have the money, resources, political power and you have to motivate the sheep (masses) to care and much of the world they are just trying to survive day to day right now.

The only reason we have space programs is because those wielding power thinks its for now a worthwhile investment that is not taking to much for the likely rewards, unless you develop impulse engines or something to make going into space practical the current level is as far as we are going to get. I will notice they jumped ship China seems to be where the space program is going they can get into space cheaper and can use all the tech developed from America and Russia to do this.

Offline Lord of Shadows

Re: The Future of Space Exploration
« Reply #41 on: June 20, 2012, 08:20:15 AM »
Those that are rich today will not be tomorrow if they miss the entire space race. In the 50s and 60s all was for National pride really "who can be first in doing what". Now it is really about money, sure they still talk about "we will be the first too..." but basically it is about money and resources. Why did the gold rush happen? Or any similar event in human history - resources. Now we have asteroids and the first company (because it will be companies) that manage the first mining operation will move from being rich to absurdly rich. We talking about an amount of resources and rare metals that far surpass the amount that exists on the planet - iron, platinum, gold, you name it - it is there for the taking and as all things that have a good chance of getting profit from - it will happen.

What we see at the moment is just the dawn of everything, but it has started and personally I hope to experience the beginning of our move to space during my life time.

You will have people that is offered insanely amount of money to be miners in space, just watch oil drilling at sea. I can easily see a salary which would be about if not a decade normal salary on Earth a year if not more because these companies that will be created will have more money then they will be able to spend on Earth.

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: The Future of Space Exploration
« Reply #42 on: June 20, 2012, 01:09:23 PM »
Okay I will rephrase with the ones that matter that have this wealth and the power that goes with it, the Global Elites that run things - how will you get them to agree to all this they don't care about the masses?

I'd personally hit them where it would do the most motivating:  Ego. 

Offline Frelance

Re: The Future of Space Exploration
« Reply #43 on: June 20, 2012, 01:20:05 PM »
I'd personally hit them where it would do the most motivating:  Ego. 

I would mix ego with a tech war and what I mean by that is the battle between Sony and Microsoft to see which would have the best gaming console. Anyway get at least two companies trying to one up the other and things will go much faster.

Offline Zakharra

Re: The Future of Space Exploration
« Reply #44 on: June 20, 2012, 10:02:48 PM »
Make tax on inheritance (capital gains)
Quote

 On inheritance or actual capital gains tax?   Higher taxes on inheritances would hurt a lot of  middle class and business people too.

"tax is x cents to the dollar per transaction".
Sales tax? This affect governments too?

Have transparent personal accounts (all can see who owns what).

 Oh, I can see that being real popular by the wealthy of all political leanings.  It would make it a lot businessmen and politicians annoyed.

Overhaul ownership rules.

 That would go over like a flying brick.

Ie overhaul capitalism.

Overhaul it too much and you destroy the incentive for people to want to achieve.


  The best way to get the wealthy people and businessmen(these are the people who would have the incentive to actually do it) is to offer  financial incentives and appeal to their egos.  Rearranging the private and tax system to make them contribute would not necessarily the smartest thing to do. If you could actually do it in the first place.

Offline Kate

Re: The Future of Space Exploration
« Reply #45 on: June 20, 2012, 11:24:38 PM »
Zakharra,

you do have a point, but I do also. Overhauls and changes that are fundamental to effect those that benefit from the current state.

Removing slavery from england was not easy, because those that had the power / votes / money benefited.
Many believed it couldnt be done, if england choose to the french would win and england "chooses" to bankrupt itself,
the idea of thigns being profitable without slavery was a song that wasnt popular.

Im not saying changes I am proposing would be easy or popular, if change isnt managed revolts happen (french revolution, civil war etc), or even if my suggestions are "the way" to solve things, only that large change is needed to deal with large problems.