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Author Topic: Murder Mystery Mansion: Feedback  (Read 1913 times)

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Online RemielTopic starter

Murder Mystery Mansion: Feedback
« on: January 11, 2012, 11:46:02 PM »
Thank you all for participating in Murder Mystery Mansion.  Obviously, as so often happens in these things, there were some unexpected developments, and some aspects of the game that needed fine-tuning.  Prominent of these was the fact that it was next to impossible for our Murderer to prevail for ten rounds, as the rules were originally written.   Basically, if the Murderer needed to be in the same room as his victim, it would only take a couple rounds for everyone to figure out who he was. Ryven had a brilliant idea with the secret passages, but I was loathe to change the rules midway through the game.  In the end, I decided upon a compromise; I would implement the secret passages, but only after I had given everyone ample warning.  The layout of the secret passages ended up like this:


In addition, forcing people to guess clues that they knew to be incorrect (e.g. guessing the Piano Wire, for example, because they already knew it was the Derringer from a previous guess) seemed more and more counterintuitive as the game went on.  I'm thinking that this shouldn't be necessary if I ever decide to run this again.

I'd like to know your thoughts, if you were part of the game.  What did you like about it? What didn't you like about it? 

Personally, I liked the fact that there was a large amount of plotting and scheming in PMs; that activity was rewarded, and that players were forced to pay attention. I didn't like that the odds were weighted so heavily against the murderer; that the rules were changed in the middle of the game; and that, overall, it was rather more complicated than other Mafia games.  I like to keep things simple, whenever possible, and I think I strayed away from that concept this time. 

Thanks to everyone who played, but especially thanks to Ryven for being such a good sport.  Congratulations to Niferbelle for winning Murder Mystery Mansion, and who knows?  Perhaps the Mansion will re-open for business again some day.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 11:53:50 PM by Remiel »

Offline Ryven

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Re: Murder Mystery Mansion: Poll
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2012, 11:49:54 PM »
I don't think you can improve on a game unless you give it at least one test run.  I knew it wouldn't last long once they knew it was me, but I figured that would only just reveal ways to improve on the game.  I would love to play again and play on the opposite role instead to see things from another perspective.

Offline Dim Hon

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Re: Murder Mystery Mansion: Feedback
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2012, 02:15:51 AM »
I very much enjoyed it, though I agree, the murderer needs more power. Perhaps something like Doubt he could target someone with once a turn, and make what they guess uncertain? 

Offline Zelric Miras

Re: Murder Mystery Mansion: Feedback
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2012, 03:53:10 AM »
It was fun to play and yes, the murderer should get more power. Doubt, as Eden suggests does sound like a good way to level it up. I would give it another try if the opportunity appeared. ^^

Offline Valerian

Re: Murder Mystery Mansion: Feedback
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2012, 08:32:54 AM »
Coincidentally, another site that I'm on started its own version of an online Clue game just a couple of days ago, so maybe their setup might help with some inspiration.

The game there is being run with teams of 3-4 people, and the culprit (a thief rather than a murderer) is an NPC, so to speak.  That isn't very Mafia-esque, of course, but it fits all right with the Clue theme.  There's a virtual deck of cards, and as in Clue, one card from each category has been removed to choose the thief, method, item stolen, etc., randomly.  The remaining cards have been numbered.

Each round features a new puzzle to solve, a word game, trivia questions, etc., and each team that gets the correct answer chooses a card by number, thus eliminating one possibility.  Every third round, there's an extra bonus -- each team chooses another team to question.  They make a suggestion, choosing one item from each category, and if the team being questioned has drawn any cards that disprove any of the items, the team doing the questioning gets to see them.

The puzzle aspect isn't very suited to Mafia, of course, but that could just as easily be that each remaining player chooses a card each round, something like that.  Or perhaps the cards are hidden around the rooms, and anyone searching a room that still has hidden cards has a certain base chance to find one each round.

The other game has a lot more options than standard Clue, featuring a thief, an accomplice, the item stolen, how the thief escaped, and where the item is now hidden, with eight in each category, so obviously it takes a while to find out everything.

There are also some non-standard cards included, like a Trapdoor card that causes you to lose a turn, an Eagle Eye card that lets you choose two cards next round, and other such things, to help shake the game up.  If you decide to keep the murderer setup as it is, that might be another way to help even things out.  Or maybe the murderer could set traps to kill at a distance, thus helping to disguise that person's identity.

We're only three rounds in, so about all I can say at this point is that it seems to be working out well so far, and it looks like an interesting take on the game.  :)

Online RemielTopic starter

Re: Murder Mystery Mansion: Feedback
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2012, 09:02:56 AM »
I really like the team aspect (my ultimate goal is to create a game where multiple teams compete against each other, similar to the Battle for Little Italy Game), but I want to keep the "danger" aspect of the Mafia games.  It was certainly interesting to watch Analise as she realized she was in mortal danger from Ryven, and witness her communiques to Eden and others along the lines of "in the untimely event of my death..."

Some options I'm considering for next time are: adding an accomplice, and adding a fourth category to guess--perhaps Motive.  I want to give the Murderer(s) at least a fighting chance (perhaps 33%), but I don't want him (or them) killing off everybody by the second or third round, either.

I loved the amount of work that everybody put into their IC posts this time around, and there was a *lot* of PMing.  Both of which seem to indicate that Murder Mystery Mansion was a success, despite all of its obvious flaws.

Offline Valerian

Re: Murder Mystery Mansion: Feedback
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2012, 10:19:42 AM »
The team aspect does seem like one of the strong points in that other game, yes.  It's fast-paced -- each round is only 24 hours -- so puzzles have to be solved quickly and it's a huge help to be able to discuss answers privately and then have whoever's online be able to send in our answers.  And of course others to plot with are always fun.  No one schemed with me this time.  :(

Offline Ryven

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Re: Murder Mystery Mansion: Feedback
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2012, 10:45:53 AM »
I really like the team aspect (my ultimate goal is to create a game where multiple teams compete against each other, similar to the Battle for Little Italy Game), but I want to keep the "danger" aspect of the Mafia games.  It was certainly interesting to watch Analise as she realized she was in mortal danger from Ryven, and witness her communiques to Eden and others along the lines of "in the untimely event of my death..."

Some options I'm considering for next time are: adding an accomplice, and adding a fourth category to guess--perhaps Motive.  I want to give the Murderer(s) at least a fighting chance (perhaps 33%), but I don't want him (or them) killing off everybody by the second or third round, either.

I loved the amount of work that everybody put into their IC posts this time around, and there was a *lot* of PMing.  Both of which seem to indicate that Murder Mystery Mansion was a success, despite all of its obvious flaws.

Given the nature of the murderer's ability (one kill per night) it would be impossible to kill more than 2 people before round 2.  In fact, round one, he/she can't kill anyone because they can only kill someone who has found out a clue.  There were how many people trying to guess who/what/where about the murderer?

I was also looking at the actual clue game.  If you look at the board and pieces, there are 9 rooms, 6 weapons, and I think 8 suspects.  With this game, there were 6 weapons, 6 rooms, and I don't know how many different players.  With only 6 of each weapons and room, the odds of finding the right one are not bad, and finding the murderer is a mix of lucky guessing combined with observation and investigation of who moves where and where each person was at the time of each murder.  The guessers, as it were, have 2 ways of finding out who the murderer is: their suspicion and their observation.  The murderer only has 1 way to fight back, and that is to take out a single person in the room they are currently in (or adjacent to).  The only way I can see to make the murderer (singular) overpowered, is to multiply his ability to kill or give him several abilities that amount to an overwhelming force to overcome.  Even by giving the Doubt ability already suggested once per turn, that's one use on one person once per turn.  With fourteen or so players, that is alright, but not overwhelming at all.

Offline Niferbelle

Re: Murder Mystery Mansion: Feedback
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2012, 07:38:59 PM »
I enjoyed the game and would play it again whether or not adjustments were made but I can see that the murderer was at a disadvantage. I don't know how complicated you want to get with the rules but I had a couple of ideas.

First, I only exchanged PMs with one player and then only when our characters were in the same room. Is this what the other players did? I didn't think there were any rules about sharing info in PMs, but either way, my first thought was in maybe establishing that players can only exchange info wghen their characters are in the same room and then that the murderer is tipped off when the collaboration is successful. It would work like this. Blue, Yellow, and Black all exchange PMs. Blue finds out that the murder weapon was the screw driver and then this is shared with both Yellow and Black. At this point, the murderer is informed that these three are collaborators and that they have guessed an element of the crime (up until a correct guess is shared, the murderer wouldn't know who was talking to whom). Blue and Black decide to go to the dining room and Yellow goes to the nursery because they want to better their chances at eliminating or guessing a room. At this point, the murderer could kill either Yellow OR Blue AND Black. the idea being, once players are identified as collaborators who are sharing correct guesses with each other, the murderer is able to take out more than one a round (although I would argue probably not more than two, that might get a little crazy). Players would be free to help eliminate things for each other without increasing the chances of getting killed but when they start sharing correct guesses, it ups the stakes a little. With these rules, it would have been possible for Ryven to kill both the Baron and Miss Brown as they were in the same room and the players had just exchanged correct guesses with each other. This could be an awful lot to keep track of with a big cast though.

I also liked the idea of adding another element, like Motive, or an ability, like Doubt which I would see as the murderer's ability to effectively nullify a player's guesses for a round so they aren't told if any of them are correct. Whether they would get to do this once a round or a set number of times for the whole game couldbe worked out. And maybe once a game they get to plant False Evidence, meaning, they target a player and the GM tells him/her that one of his/her incorrect guesses is correct which will really throw them off. Or maybe they could do it once for each element of the crime?

Those are just some thoughts I had. Thank you Remi for all the organizing you put into the game. It was fun!

Offline Kendra

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Re: Murder Mystery Mansion: Feedback
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2012, 09:02:25 AM »
I did enjoy the game but am left wondering why in my very first pm that my suspicion regarding the chef was not confirmed.

Miss Plum had stayed in the kitchen sipping on her coffee but kept her wits about her, everyone was a suspect and every thing a possible weapon. She had seen the cleaver only a moment before and was sure that could be the weapon used here in this very room and glancing at the two occupying the room with her, the only one she even thought to suspect for now was Chef Sage Green.
the kitchen was but not the chef ...
were we only allowed one finding at a go? I didn't see that in the rules but I might have overlooked it
scratch that found it written  ::) - damn it anyways  ;D

Had also successfully guessed the derringer.

a lot of work Remiel - great job
congrats Niferbelle  ;)


 
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 09:30:57 AM by Kendra »

Offline Ryven

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Re: Murder Mystery Mansion: Feedback
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2012, 08:06:42 PM »
I would never dirty my cleaver with human blood...only animal. ;)

Offline Kendra

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Re: Murder Mystery Mansion: Feedback
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2012, 04:16:40 AM »
*grins* glad to hear it :P

I'm just going mad that I couldn't put the time or effort in to playing the game as it should have been played. A new game came on board and consumed my time completely, to the point I almost forgot to give my suspicions not once but twice .. maybe more  :-\

I loved the secret passages that opened up, made me have to reread the posts to see who was where and when all over again  ;D
twas a great whodunnit indeed  ;)

I didn't scheme with any one either this time but who knows for future games  ;D

Offline Ryven

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Re: Murder Mystery Mansion: Feedback
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2012, 11:44:34 AM »
I'll scheme with you next time. ::)

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Re: Murder Mystery Mansion: Feedback
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2012, 12:37:56 PM »
I thought about scheming with the whole group after the murder in the kitchen where it was just Ryven and I, but I didn't want to give someone the last clue and let them win so early. O:)

Online RemielTopic starter

Re: Murder Mystery Mansion: Feedback
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2012, 09:36:06 PM »
I did enjoy the game but am left wondering why in my very first pm that my suspicion regarding the chef was not confirmed.
the kitchen was but not the chef ...
were we only allowed one finding at a go? I didn't see that in the rules but I might have overlooked it
scratch that found it written  ::) - damn it anyways  ;D

Had also successfully guessed the derringer.

a lot of work Remiel - great job
congrats Niferbelle  ;)

Sorry, Kendra--yes, you could only learn one clue per round, even if all of your guesses were correct.  Sorry, I thought I had made that clear.   :-\

Offline Kendra

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Re: Murder Mystery Mansion: Feedback
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2012, 05:04:16 AM »
I'll scheme with you next time. ::)
*chuckles* will hold you to that :P

Sorry, Kendra--yes, you could only learn one clue per round, even if all of your guesses were correct.  Sorry, I thought I had made that clear.   :-\

sweetheart you totally did, I should have just reread the rules half way during the game - my mind had been torn in twenty different directions so every time I made a guess I was whizzing back over posts and sending you a pm in the hopes I wasn't late  :-\
Your rules were very clear - it was me that was at fault. ;)

*Hugs tightly*  ;)