You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 10, 2016, 06:22:21 PM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions  (Read 56590 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online AndyZ

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #450 on: April 08, 2012, 07:38:03 PM »
I've seen less than a handful of people complain about cross gender RP, and I've been on the site over a year.  In text based, most of my characters end up female, because my voice-based and tabletop-based games are more difficult to cross-gender RP in, at least for me personally.  Then again, I have a much harder time acting out my character in an actual tabletop setting.

When a character forms in my head, I usually have very little control over the gender of the character.  It's one of those attributes which just pops into my head, and attempting to change it is like tugging one thread in a tapestry.  It's pushed me away from a number of games where the awesome character idea that I had simply was disallowed, although I usually save the base concepts for another time.

I've had a great deal of people drop from games without reasons given, but I don't think I've ever had anyone say it was because of people playing the opposite gender.  If it happened, I'd probably handle things the same way I'd handle whenever one player doesn't want to play with another.

...Come to think of it, I have no idea how I'd handle that either.  Most likely it'd depend on the situation.

Offline Chrystal

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #451 on: April 09, 2012, 04:30:19 AM »
In my experience, cross genders, non genders, LGBT, all will go where they feel welcome, just as anyone would regardless of preference.

I personally, would leave it open for any and all, in fairness. Otherwise I feel you risk alienating wonderful writers regardless of there preferences.

If others have issue then they are in direct violation of the oath of drake (group game civility rules).

So to reiterate myself, I would allow anyone. Those that want to play should be able to regardless of preferences.

I agree to a certain extent. However, I think it worth pointing out that a GM has the right to choose who to allow in the game. If a game is declared as public, then obviously anyone is allowed. However it is also perfectly acceptable to open a game and simply invite your friends to play. I know, it rather defeats the object of a public forum, but there are times when you want people you know and trust around you rather than a group of random strangers.

Of course, if you just invite in your friends, you should know what gender character they will usually create.

A "girls only" type game is the sort of place where we have a blurring of the lines. (Interestingly, I've not seen many "boys only" games, but that's probably because I'm not looking for them, but I expect the same thing may well apply).

The reason (in my opinion) that lesbians like myself get a bit nervous around guys who play girls is because we've had bad experiences with the sort of person who simply wants to "get into a lesbian's knickers". I've had that happen to me here on E. Interestingly the player who tried it was subsequently banned for something unrelated...! I know it's a bad thing to do, but it's hard not to tar everyone with the same brush. There are some guys out there who play great female characters and do so irrespective of whether there are lesbians in the mix! Of course, the problem is that if you allow one guy playing a girl into your girls-only game, you then have no real justification for not allowing others.

Interestingly, I have witnessed the reverse form of this too. I was mildly interested in a group game where a guy asked if he could play a woman. The GM said yes if it was okay with everyone else. It was fine by me - this was actually someone I know and he was planning on playing a straight F character. One of the M players said that he had no objections and would simply treat the cross-gender character "as one of the lads". HUH? That rather defeats the object of the game, doesn't it? Playing the man not the ball, so to speak.

Anyway, thanks for the answers so far. I love this thread and I'm learning a lot from it!

Online AndyZ

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #452 on: April 09, 2012, 10:16:23 AM »
I agree to a certain extent. However, I think it worth pointing out that a GM has the right to choose who to allow in the game. If a game is declared as public, then obviously anyone is allowed. However it is also perfectly acceptable to open a game and simply invite your friends to play. I know, it rather defeats the object of a public forum, but there are times when you want people you know and trust around you rather than a group of random strangers.

Of course, if you just invite in your friends, you should know what gender character they will usually create.

A "girls only" type game is the sort of place where we have a blurring of the lines. (Interestingly, I've not seen many "boys only" games, but that's probably because I'm not looking for them, but I expect the same thing may well apply).

The reason (in my opinion) that lesbians like myself get a bit nervous around guys who play girls is because we've had bad experiences with the sort of person who simply wants to "get into a lesbian's knickers". I've had that happen to me here on E. Interestingly the player who tried it was subsequently banned for something unrelated...! I know it's a bad thing to do, but it's hard not to tar everyone with the same brush. There are some guys out there who play great female characters and do so irrespective of whether there are lesbians in the mix! Of course, the problem is that if you allow one guy playing a girl into your girls-only game, you then have no real justification for not allowing others.

Interestingly, I have witnessed the reverse form of this too. I was mildly interested in a group game where a guy asked if he could play a woman. The GM said yes if it was okay with everyone else. It was fine by me - this was actually someone I know and he was planning on playing a straight F character. One of the M players said that he had no objections and would simply treat the cross-gender character "as one of the lads". HUH? That rather defeats the object of the game, doesn't it? Playing the man not the ball, so to speak.

Anyway, thanks for the answers so far. I love this thread and I'm learning a lot from it!

I remember being in first or second grade when the teacher talked about reading books with protagonists of the opposite gender, and how it was perfectly normal.  I guess you can argue that there's a difference between reading and writing, but would you then want to be leery of writers who have minor characters of the opposite gender?  Protagonists?  What about GMs in similar circumstances?

I don't have the good fortune to be bisexual, so any attempts to make a character that is interested in something other than females has become a theoretical exercise.  In that respect, I can understand how personal sexual preferences can make it more fun to know that the person on the other computer is enjoying things, but doing so requires abandoning the fourth wall of the RP.  Then again, that fourth wall is one that GMs have to deal with all the time in order to make sure that the players are having fun, regardless of whether the characters are happy.

As far as someone playing a character that others would be sexually interested in, though, I always figured that was pretty much the point.  You don't play tentacle monsters unless the victim would be interested in them, for example.  I have a bit of a kink for nurses, but few people who actually are nurses would be interested in playing one for a sexual role.  I've heard the argument that it makes sense not to expect people to be elves or other fantasy creatures, but to me it seems the same kind of argument for professions, which actually do exist, would therefore be closer to gender if that argument was correct.

Now, the necessity for matching another's preferences is amplified in solo games, because each character has to have the option of sexuality in order for sex to take place.  In group games, players may not have a partner planned out in advance, but most will hope and expect to be able to find one within the group.

I wrote this while watching TV so let me know if any particular point was unclear.

Online Thufir Hawat

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #453 on: April 09, 2012, 11:43:02 AM »
Interestingly, I have witnessed the reverse form of this too. I was mildly interested in a group game where a guy asked if he could play a woman. The GM said yes if it was okay with everyone else. It was fine by me - this was actually someone I know and he was planning on playing a straight F character. One of the M players said that he had no objections and would simply treat the cross-gender character "as one of the lads". HUH? That rather defeats the object of the game, doesn't it? Playing the man not the ball, so to speak.

Anyway, thanks for the answers so far. I love this thread and I'm learning a lot from it!
Just wanted to point out, I have friends IRL that I treat as "one of the lads", and hopefully this doesn't make irrelevant the fact of them being women ;).
In forum games, this simply means "my character isn't going to be interested in yours sexually, no matter what". But it also allows to exploit this OOC situation for a bit of IC comic relief, if the girl tries to seduce the man, and he reacts as being surprised and asks for them to be just friends ;D!

Offline Chrystal

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #454 on: April 09, 2012, 11:59:30 AM »
I remember being in first or second grade when the teacher talked about reading books with protagonists of the opposite gender, and how it was perfectly normal.  I guess you can argue that there's a difference between reading and writing, but would you then want to be leery of writers who have minor characters of the opposite gender?  Protagonists?  What about GMs in similar circumstances?

Um... I fail to really see the connection here? Maybe I'm being thick (wouldn't be the first time), or maybe it was the TV...? Reading books with protagonists of the opposite gender? To what? To the author? To the reader? To each other?  It's probably worth pointing out that you were, what, eight? Many of the most famous children's books ever written have a mixture of protagonists. Swallows and Amazons, The Lion The Witch And The wardrobe, Enid Blyton's Famous Five books, for example.

Reading books with different gendered protagonists is not just normal it's impossible to avoid unless you are very selective and limited in your reading!

Now, if you are talking about protagonists who change their gender (or at least the appearance of their gender), this goes back most famously to Shakespeare.

Not sure where I said this before, but in the film "Shakespeare In Love", a woman disguises herself as a man in order to be allowed to act in Shakespeare's plays. She then appears on stage in the role of a woman who disguises herself as a man. So you have a woman disguised as a man disguised as a woman disguised as a man... Confused? You will be!

My point is that people pretending to be the other gender in literature (as in life) goes back to pre-history.

Quote
I don't have the good fortune to be bisexual, so any attempts to make a character that is interested in something other than females has become a theoretical exercise.  In that respect, I can understand how personal sexual preferences can make it more fun to know that the person on the other computer is enjoying things, but doing so requires abandoning the fourth wall of the RP.  Then again, that fourth wall is one that GMs have to deal with all the time in order to make sure that the players are having fun, regardless of whether the characters are happy.

Nor do I, and I sometimes wish I were because I miss out on a lot of great srtories and great writing partners who just happen to have a little too much between their legs for my taste...

Abandoning the fourth wall? Why? That is what the OOC thread and PMs are for. If I'm not enjoying a RP I always PM the other player/GM and say why. Players who do not do this are, IMHO, discourteous. If you are not enjoying writing with me, say so!

And let's face it, the whole purpose of this is it's supposed to be fun. If it's not, then you shouldn't be doing it! So, keeping the players happy should, really, be the GM's primary - if not only - concern. Sod whether the characters are happy. If they wanted to be happy they shouldn't have got involved in fighting those tentacle monsters in the first place!

Quote
As far as someone playing a character that others would be sexually interested in, though, I always figured that was pretty much the point.  You don't play tentacle monsters unless the victim would be interested in them, for example.  I have a bit of a kink for nurses, but few people who actually are nurses would be interested in playing one for a sexual role.  I've heard the argument that it makes sense not to expect people to be elves or other fantasy creatures, but to me it seems the same kind of argument for professions, which actually do exist, would therefore be closer to gender if that argument was correct.

Precisely. Or, more accurately, if you don't want to get raped by a tentacle monster, you don't join a RP called "Getting raped by tentacle monsters"! If you want sex with a guy you don't join an all-girl game. The obvious corollary to that is, that if you want to have slimy tentacles up your backside then you DO join a tentacle RP and if you want an exclusively lesbian environment you look for an all-girl RP.

I think I understand what you mean about nurses and elves, but it might help if you could clarify? I think what you're saying is that you can't force someone to play a race or a profession - or in fact, a gender. This is true. However, if I want a RP about nurses, I expect to have nurses as the characters. If I get ballerinas, I'm going to be rather upset. I think you have things a little backwards, in so far as you seem to be saying that people should be allowed to join a RP regardless of what character they wish to play, and the GM should build the RP around them. (If you aren't saying that, then I do appologise, but that's how I'm reading it).

I think 99% of GMs would agree with me that we come up with a setting and ask players to create characters that fit. We don't want US marines in a D&D setting any more than we want elves in WWII... (except in very special circumstances). If a player is only capable of playing a US Marine then they shouldn't join a RP that doesn't require US Marines.

The same goes for gender. There are players who will only ever play the opposite gender and those who will only ever play the same gender, and those who switch freely between the two, and I believe passionately that all types have a right to be accommodated for. So, if I create a roleplay and ask players to stick to their own gender, I am hopefully creating an environment for those players who prefer that. If I create a roleplay and insist that players play the opposite gender (has that ever been done?)  I will create an environment for those who enjoy that.

Quote
Now, the necessity for matching another's preferences is amplified in solo games, because each character has to have the option of sexuality in order for sex to take place.  In group games, players may not have a partner planned out in advance, but most will hope and expect to be able to find one within the group.

Precisely, again. In adult RP one expects a certain amount of sex. To match up your character with a Compatible partner (or two) and have some smutty fun is why most of us are here. Now, if a player is (for example) a gay male and has an aversion to female players, and the only other gay male character is played by a woman, we have a problem, would you agree?

Quote
I wrote this while watching TV so let me know if any particular point was unclear.

I believe I mentioned above that I wasn't clear on what you meant about nurses and elves?

I think it's worth mentioning the Non-Consent forums at this point, and the fact that I always stress to players that I have a rule. I think it should be universal to E, if it isn't already: Non-Consent applies to the Character not the Player. In other words if you want your character to rape another player's character you have to have the player's permission to do so!

With this in mind, and given that in the bondage and light forums you need the character's consent, I feel safe to allow cross gender players in most group games, because a player is within their rights to decline an advance from another player's character even in a NC or extreme thread.

Just wanted to point out, I have friends IRL that I treat as "one of the lads", and hopefully this doesn't make irrelevant the fact of them being women ;).
In forum games, this simply means "my character isn't going to be interested in yours sexually, no matter what". But it also allows to exploit this OOC situation for a bit of IC comic relief, if the girl tries to seduce the man, and he reacts as being surprised and asks for them to be just friends ;D!

(Took me a while to type that...)

Okay, I take the point. There are people whom, in real life, you simply aren't attracted to regardless of gender and orientation, no matter how good looking.

My objection was more to do with the specific context in which the comment was made, where the player in question was specifically asked if he minded RPing with a woman played by a man, and he said he was fine with it, and then effectively contradicted himself. It would have been more honest to state openly that he would rather not be partnered in a sexual context with such a player!
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 01:36:04 PM by Chrystal »

Online Thufir Hawat

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #455 on: April 09, 2012, 01:01:36 PM »
(Took me a while to type that...)

Okay, I take the point. There are people whom, in real life, you simply aren't attracted to regardless of gender and orientation, no matter how good looking.

My objection was more to do with the specific context in which the comment was made, where the player in question was specifically asked if he minded RPing with a woman played by a man, and he said he was fine with it, and then effectively contradicted himself. It would have been more honest to state openly that he would rather not be partnered in a sexual context with such a player!
Yes, that's the part of the point I was trying to make. And sometimes people aren't attracted to another character for OOC reasons. My whole point was that this actually mirrors what's going on IRL, so we should use such incidents to enhance the game whenever possible. We already know from his answer that he has some feelings for the other character, whether a general camaraderie, feeling protective towards "little sister", or something else.
Bottomline, it's better to use things that don't fit for OOC reasons as fuel for the IC story, than to dwell on them until they destroy the story. Same goes for other OOC problems, actually. A player was missing for a few weeks and the character stood in the corner? Guess who had the vision I wanted to give one of them during the dream! And yes, I had an IC reason for the vision before the player disappeared, I just moved it to the day instead of the night.
Regarding him being dishonest, maybe he was. Then again, maybe he thought his answer is clear!
Please note, this is actually quite a common answer on other sites, so he might have considered it a clear and almost direct answer.
Besides, if he was asked whether he's fine RPing with the person, not whether he'd be fine pairing with the other guy, he has actually given the honest answer. He was fine RPing with said person, right? He just didn't find the character attractive for sexual situations. But there are many, many more situations where he would be fine RPing with them!
Or maybe he was dishonest and a hidden bigot. I'm not the one who could tell; what I can do is point out that there are many possible reasons.

And regarding the impact of OOC reasons, there are many possible reasons you might not find a character attractive. Does it matter whether this was due to something in the way the character was described, the picture the player has chosen, the character's concept, or the equally imperceptible quality of being played by a man? All of these and more can be a turn-off for the player.
And if something about the character turns you off, it only makes sense not to force yourself to roleplay a sexual situation with them. Granted, some people maintain a very good separation between themselves and the character, but if you don't find whatever the character is doing interesting, it also shows in your writing.
In this case, "she's one of the lads" is actually a good IC reason which explains it away and allows you to play a better game. Again, use obstacles as fodder for RP, and they become much less of a problem.
Or at least, that's my solution. I'm sure some people would disagree, and that's fine ;D!

Online AndyZ

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #456 on: April 09, 2012, 01:31:24 PM »
Quote
Um... I fail to really see the connection here? Maybe I'm being thick (wouldn't be the first time), or maybe it was the TV...? Reading books with protagonists of the opposite gender? To what? To the author? To the reader? To each other?  It's probably worth pointing out that you were, what, eight? Many of the most famous children's books ever written have a mixture of protagonists. Swallows and Amazons, The Lion The Witch And The wardrobe, Enid Blyton's Famous Five books, for example.

Reading as in opening a book and forming an image in your brain.  Reading to yourself.

I guess I just see it as, is reading that much different from writing?  Is RP that much different from ordinary writing?  What causes the rift in people where it's alright to read another writer using the opposite gender, but not to RP it?  If no discrete, logical reason can be found, perhaps it's a division which should be abandoned.

You make many other points where such gender blending is commonplace, although it's harder to point them directly to roleplaying as it is with simple writing.

Quote
Abandoning the fourth wall? Why? That is what the OOC thread and PMs are for. If I'm not enjoying a RP I always PM the other player/GM and say why. Players who do not do this are, IMHO, discourteous. If you are not enjoying writing with me, say so!

And let's face it, the whole purpose of this is it's supposed to be fun. If it's not, then you shouldn't be doing it! So, keeping the players happy should, really, be the GM's primary - if not only - concern. Sod whether the characters are happy. If they wanted to be happy they shouldn't have got involved in fighting those tentacle monsters in the first place!

A concept better known in system games is an idea called "metagaming," a frowned-upon practice where the player has the character take actions which suit the player and not the character.  An obvious example would be if a player saw the enemy's post of setting up a booby trap behind the door, and that player's character suddenly decides not to open the door, for no other reason than that the player doesn't want the character to set off the booby trap.  You can easily imagine the type of metagaming which could happen if players knew from the start who the killer was in Cluedo.

Obviously, there's a give and take in such situations.  I have found the ideal method to be to make sure that the player has minimal understanding of anything beyond what his/her character knows, and therefore doesn't have to worry about such problems.

The term "metagaming" has a severe stigma attached to it, although there have been times where it's useful.  For example, if a GM says, "Guys, please don't drive into the black hole.  It's not an illusion," and the characters stop their ship even if they would have gone in otherwise, then fun is maintained despite the use of metagaming.  However, it does have its impact upon the fourth wall all the same.

For such situations, I like to use an NPC specifically for such circumstances.  Having the psychic suddenly stand up and scream, yelling, "It's not an illusion!  Please stop!" is much more RP-friendly than having the GM tell you so, even if the players know that the psychic only speaks on behalf of the GM.

The point I was trying to make with that paragraph was that, you may enjoy sexual RP more if the person on the other end is your own preferred gender and you know that they are aroused by the RP.  This may be why some people care about the gender of the player.  However, in order to arrive at such a conclusion, you have to think about the player and not their character, forgetting about the fantasy and boiling everything down to having two people on two different computers typing text to each other.

Granted that that is exactly what OOC and PMs are for, and you want to use that when there are problems in the RP.  Absolutely no argument that the GM has to make sure that the players are happy, whether that means making the characters happy, unhappy, or whatever.  However, the GM is going to have to spend more time concentrating on the players and making sure that they're happy, not just losing him/herself in the RP.

It's most likely a moot point; I do tend to ramble.

Quote
I think I understand what you mean about nurses and elves, but it might help if you could clarify? I think what you're saying is that you can't force someone to play a race or a profession - or in fact, a gender. This is true. However, if I want a RP about nurses, I expect to have nurses as the characters. If I get ballerinas, I'm going to be rather upset. I think you have things a little backwards, in so far as you seem to be saying that people should be allowed to join a RP regardless of what character they wish to play, and the GM should build the RP around them. (If you aren't saying that, then I do appologise, but that's how I'm reading it).

This part was in response to one of the hypotheses I've seen regarding that people who have absolutely no qualms about playing elves, dragons, spider demons, and other such outlandish things get squeamish about playing an ordinary member of the opposite gender.  The hypothesis was that because elves, dragons, spider demons, tentacle monsters and the like do not actually exist, the construct is purely made by the player, which allows a degree of freedom, whereas genders do exist and thus some people feel unqualified to properly play one.

I refute this argument by pointing to occupations, and that even though doctors, nurses, firemen, army sargents, etc. do exist, many people who play alternate occupations fall far closer to the comfort of playing a fantasy creature than playing an alternate gender.  Granted that the GM does have final say, and if you're playing a specific type of game, people are expected to follow suit, but I was more attempting to dispel that argument.

Quote
If I create a roleplay and insist that players play the opposite gender (has that ever been done?)

Eliza had a Genderswap RP once, I think.  No idea how it turned out or if it's still going.

Quote
Precisely, again. In adult RP one expects a certain amount of sex. To match up your character with a Compatible partner (or two) and have some smutty fun is why most of us are here. Now, if a player is (for example) a gay male and has an aversion to female players, and the only other gay male character is played by a woman, we have a problem, would you agree?

I actually see Elliquiy as having the potential for sexual RP.  In many games throughout the world and Internet, sex is a no-no in RP.  At best, you'll have a fade-to-black session or private session.  I like Elliquiy's option of being able to throw sex into the RP at a moment's notice without people getting squeamish, especially when the temptation of a seductress is so much more real if it's not going to be, "Okay, you're in the bedroom for a few hours, it's really great, but mark off three points of Honor."

To better iterate my fourth wall comment, if it's a male GM playing the seductress NPC, does the temptation definitively change just because of that?  I would imagine that the only real way it would matter is if the GM was unable to properly portray a female, which also breaks the fourth wall but is the fault of the GM, not the player.  I personally find this equivalent to reading a novel and losing interest in the protagonist simply because I question the ability of the author to properly portray that gender.

Obviously, this is just how I see it, and others are welcome to their own opinions and beliefs.

Quote
I think it's worth mentioning the Non-Consent forums at this point, and the fact that I always stress to players that I have a rule. I think it should be universal to E, if it isn't already: Non-Consent applies to the Character not the Player. In other words if you want your character to rape another player's character you have to have the player's permission to do so!

Although I can understand the reasoning of this and try to follow it as much as possible as a GM (where I've talked with people in advance and know who will be kidnapped and why), and my tentacle monster game has various things to learn what girls were into what and didn't want certain things, it can get sticky with players.  There's certainly an equivalency of "Why are you in a military game if you don't want to be a military character?" and "Why are you in a NC game if you don't want to be raped?"

I'm not saying that you're drawing an equivalency, but where I see one and get the luxury of long philosophical discussions, I enjoy the chance to point out where I see differences and learn from them.  I've found a great deal of my own beliefs to be flawed in such manner, and have been reworking them as a result, although that's a discussion for elsewhere.

I would say that the difference between the two is that you can enjoy aspects of a game but want to be left out of other aspects, so long as your character reasonably ties into the theme.  A character in a military game might not want to fight, only have sex with burly soldiers, so she makes a prostitute employed by the army officials to keep the soldiers happy.  One girl in the group isn't being raped either because the rapers aren't attracted to her or because they want one girl to watch and hold the camera.  The important part there is finding a reason why the character fits into the overarching theme.

Supporting characters should also be aware that they aren't going to have the spotlight.  During the main scenes of war and violence in the military game, the prostitute will be spectating, if that.  With the player's consent, she may even be forced into a situation of medic or spotter in order to draw them into the main theme, but if the player is only interested in sex, she'll just end up doing absolutely nothing during that time and hanging out on the side thread 100% of the time.

Bottomline, it's better to use things that don't fit for OOC reasons as fuel for the IC story, than to dwell on them until they destroy the story. Same goes for other OOC problems, actually. A player was missing for a few weeks and the character stood in the corner? Guess who had the vision I wanted to give one of them during the dream! And yes, I had an IC reason for the vision before the player disappeared, I just moved it to the day instead of the night.

A truly talented GM can take the OOC reasons which are given on something and come up with a plausible IC reason for them.  One of the major jobs of the GM, though players should work on this as well, is to repair any holes in the fourth wall.

I was in a game about two years ago where one guy didn't show up one week and his skills were exactly what was needed.  When we attempted to plow through anyway and he came back the next week to realize how badly things were going, his character talked about how the solution was blindly obvious, chastising us and a bunch of other crap.  This ended up getting tempers flaring because we were doing the best we could and had been forced to play as though his character was just being silent the whole time.

It's not very difficult to equate this to a forum RP, imagining that person not having posted for weeks while the other players deliberated and eventually took the initiative to keep the game from dying.

It sounds like Thufir is quite adept at these types of situations, which is awesome.  Thufir, may I PM you on occasion when I get stuck on an appropriate way to handle such a situation?

Quote
In this case, "she's one of the lads" is actually a good IC reason which explains it away and allows you to play a better game. Again, use obstacles as fodder for RP, and they become much less of a problem.
Or at least, that's my solution. I'm sure some people would disagree, and that's fine ;D!

The "friend zone" is alive and well, so if you don't honestly have any inclination, that's as good a way as any to handle it.

Online Thufir Hawat

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #457 on: April 09, 2012, 02:23:31 PM »
A truly talented GM can take the OOC reasons which are given on something and come up with a plausible IC reason for them.  One of the major jobs of the GM, though players should work on this as well, is to repair any holes in the fourth wall.

(snipped)

It sounds like Thufir is quite adept at these types of situations, which is awesome.  Thufir, may I PM you on occasion when I get stuck on an appropriate way to handle such a situation?
Frankly, I doubt I'm that talented, and flattery is simply unnecessary ;D!
Sure, anyone can PM me whenever they feel like it. Send me a sinopsis, and I'd do my best.
Fair warning, some explanations are better than others! After all, depends on what we have to work with.

Quote
The "friend zone" is alive and well, so if you don't honestly have any inclination, that's as good a way as any to handle it.
The reasons for the "friend zone" existing notwithstanding, yes, that was most of my point ;). Besides, "the friend zone" offers RP possibilities. Hopefully, the players wouldn't be hurt when their seduction attempt fails due to the friend zone, since they knew the outcome beforehand.
And it also gives them an opportunity to roleplay a quarrel between friends!

Offline alxnjshTopic starter

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #458 on: April 09, 2012, 02:30:25 PM »
A "girls only" type game is the sort of place where we have a blurring of the lines. (Interestingly, I've not seen many "boys only" games, but that's probably because I'm not looking for them, but I expect the same thing may well apply).


I've played in a "boys only" game but it was a boys only character. The game was co-ran by a Lady GM.

I've found cross-gender writing to be more problematic with Lords, but in general most are okay with it. I've also played in games where my character (a gay male) has interacted with non-gay male characters.

It is a sticky subject, but as a writing community authors should stretch their boundaries. I believe it's been said many times before that if authors didn't cross-gender write then the books would pretty darn boring ;)

Offline Chrystal

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #459 on: April 09, 2012, 02:39:36 PM »
Quote
Reading as in opening a book and forming an image in your brain.  Reading to yourself.

I guess I just see it as, is reading that much different from writing?  Is RP that much different from ordinary writing?  What causes the rift in people where it's alright to read another writer using the opposite gender, but not to RP it?  If no discrete, logical reason can be found, perhaps it's a division which should be abandoned.

You make many other points where such gender blending is commonplace, although it's harder to point them directly to roleplaying as it is with simple writing.

Okay, I think I totally misunderstood what you meant the first time and this paragraph has just left me even more confused. Reading and writing are two sides of the same coin. (In fact in order to write you have to be able to read, because... Okay shut up, geek, they all know that!)

Um, okay re-read it and I think I see what you're getting at. I can read a novel about Hercule Poirot (a man) written by Agatha Christie (a woman) without batting an eyelid, but when the male detective in my Cluedo RP is played by a woman I get all weirded out? (Just a hypothetical example, btw).

I think it is, as pointed out, to do with people being unable to keep player and character entirely separate, together with the immediacy of the thing. When I read a novel, be it an Agatha Christie novel or a soft-porn novel off the top shelf of the book shop, I'm reading something that is pre-written, I have no control over it and nor does anyone else. As you point out, if I cease to enjoy the book, I simply stop reading it. Generally, if I've read a novel by that author already, I know the sort of thing to expect and am prepared for it.

If I write a full length novel all by myself with the protagonist being the opposite gender from me, I am in control of ALL the characters and nothing any of them does will actually surprise me.

In a RP however, I am in control of MY character. All the others are under the control of other players. And I don't necessarily know any of those players. Now, as with the author of the novel, I may have played with some of them before and know what to expect to a certain extent, but in a public group game there will be those I don't know. People are unpredictable. I have had experiences where a female character has suddenly become male without warning. I have had players whom I thought were playing a sub suddenly turn their character dominant. And really, one's only defence against this is to complain to the GM (if one is present), and if that fails, abandon the RP.

This, I believe is why people are more cautious when it comes to "collaborative writing" than other forms.

Quote
This part was in response to one of the hypotheses I've seen regarding that people who have absolutely no qualms about playing elves, dragons, spider demons, and other such outlandish things get squeamish about playing an ordinary member of the opposite gender.  The hypothesis was that because elves, dragons, spider demons, tentacle monsters and the like do not actually exist, the construct is purely made by the player, which allows a degree of freedom, whereas genders do exist and thus some people feel unqualified to properly play one.

I refute this argument by pointing to occupations, and that even though doctors, nurses, firemen, army sargents, etc. do exist, many people who play alternate occupations fall far closer to the comfort of playing a fantasy creature than playing an alternate gender.  Granted that the GM does have final say, and if you're playing a specific type of game, people are expected to follow suit, but I was more attempting to dispel that argument.

Ah, right, yes, I see where you are coming from on this now. And I agree that the argument is complete bunkum. For one thing, dragons, elves, spider demons and tentacle monsters do exist..... *whistles innocently*

No, sorry, couldn't resist that. I agree, though that the occupation analogy works well. I think, though it has to do with the more intimate nature of one's gender. Another good analogy here is religion. You choose your job. You choose your religion, but you are born a certain gender and a certain orientation. (I DO hope no one is going to try and tell me that sexual orientation is a choice?) Changing how you are made is actually difficult, painful and (I believe) expensive. There are people who do it, but I don't think anyone should undertake such a procedure lightly.

And so, it is easier to role-play a different job, because for most of us it is easier to imagine ourselves in a different job, than it is to imagine ourselves as a different gender!

Quote
To better iterate my fourth wall comment, if it's a male GM playing the seductress NPC, does the temptation definitively change just because of that?  I would imagine that the only real way it would matter is if the GM was unable to properly portray a female, which also breaks the fourth wall but is the fault of the GM, not the player.  I personally find this equivalent to reading a novel and losing interest in the protagonist simply because I question the ability of the author to properly portray that gender.

I agree in principal, but as I've never been seduced by a female NPC played by a male GM, I cannot answer from experience. As I said in the previous discussion, I've never until now participated in a RP where the GM did not also have a player character, and the NPCs were controlled uniformly by all the players.

Quote
Although I can understand the reasoning of this and try to follow it as much as possible as a GM (where I've talked with people in advance and know who will be kidnapped and why), and my tentacle monster game has various things to learn what girls were into what and didn't want certain things, it can get sticky with players.  There's certainly an equivalency of "Why are you in a military game if you don't want to be a military character?" and "Why are you in a NC game if you don't want to be raped?"

I'm not saying that you're drawing an equivalency, but where I see one and get the luxury of long philosophical discussions, I enjoy the chance to point out where I see differences and learn from them.  I've found a great deal of my own beliefs to be flawed in such manner, and have been reworking them as a result, although that's a discussion for elsewhere.

Yes, I agree, but I have an answer: "Why are you in a NC game if you don't want to be raped?" I do want to be raped, I just want to be raped by her and not by you!

And your point about changing beliefs is exactly why we are having this discussion. I know I'm not a good GM. If I were I would have my orange badge by now - Goddess knows I've tried often enough. So, I come here and I raise these contentious issues and argue them back and forth in the hope of achieving some sort of GM Buddhahood. Or at least a greater state of enlightenment than I'm currently at.

Every answer I get is carefully weighed and examined and if I think it will help improve my GMing I take it on board!

Quote
It sounds like Thufir is quite adept at these types of situations, which is awesome.  Thufir, may I PM you on occasion when I get stuck on an appropriate way to handle such a situation?

Isn't that what the "Help the players broke my game" thread is for? If it isn't, Thufir, you are going to be getting a lot of PMs!

Online AndyZ

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #460 on: April 09, 2012, 02:41:26 PM »
I've played in a "boys only" game but it was a boys only character. The game was co-ran by a Lady GM.

I've found cross-gender writing to be more problematic with Lords, but in general most are okay with it. I've also played in games where my character (a gay male) has interacted with non-gay male characters.

It is a sticky subject, but as a writing community authors should stretch their boundaries. I believe it's been said many times before that if authors didn't cross-gender write then the books would pretty darn boring ;)

The protagonist of my novels is a heterosexual female.  I personally believe that the only real difference to worry about when writing another gender is sociological, and using that technique has made most things make sense except for sexuality.  From there, I just pretty much have to wing it.

I can go more into detail on this train of logic, but it'd get off-topic pretty darn fast.

Chrystal, just saw that you posted, I'm in the process of another char post right now and don't want to get too far off the train of thought.  I'll get to it shortly.

Online Thufir Hawat

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #461 on: April 09, 2012, 03:24:23 PM »
Isn't that what the "Help the players broke my game" thread is for? If it isn't, Thufir, you are going to be getting a lot of PMs!
Chrystal, I sincerely doubt that many people are in need of, or want to listen to, my advice ;D!
But again, anyone who wants an opinion, can PM me. No guarantees you'd like my opinion, but I can guarantee you'd get a honest one >:)!

Online AndyZ

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #462 on: April 09, 2012, 03:37:56 PM »
Okay, I think I totally misunderstood what you meant the first time and this paragraph has just left me even more confused. Reading and writing are two sides of the same coin. (In fact in order to write you have to be able to read, because... Okay shut up, geek, they all know that!)

Um, okay re-read it and I think I see what you're getting at. I can read a novel about Hercule Poirot (a man) written by Agatha Christie (a woman) without batting an eyelid, but when the male detective in my Cluedo RP is played by a woman I get all weirded out? (Just a hypothetical example, btw).

Correct.  Sorry I'm not always good at clarification.

Quote
I think it is, as pointed out, to do with people being unable to keep player and character entirely separate, together with the immediacy of the thing. When I read a novel, be it an Agatha Christie novel or a soft-porn novel off the top shelf of the book shop, I'm reading something that is pre-written, I have no control over it and nor does anyone else. As you point out, if I cease to enjoy the book, I simply stop reading it. Generally, if I've read a novel by that author already, I know the sort of thing to expect and am prepared for it.

If I write a full length novel all by myself with the protagonist being the opposite gender from me, I am in control of ALL the characters and nothing any of them does will actually surprise me.

In a RP however, I am in control of MY character. All the others are under the control of other players. And I don't necessarily know any of those players. Now, as with the author of the novel, I may have played with some of them before and know what to expect to a certain extent, but in a public group game there will be those I don't know. People are unpredictable. I have had experiences where a female character has suddenly become male without warning. I have had players whom I thought were playing a sub suddenly turn their character dominant. And really, one's only defence against this is to complain to the GM (if one is present), and if that fails, abandon the RP.

This, I believe is why people are more cautious when it comes to "collaborative writing" than other forms.

I'm guessing it was some sort of supernatural setting to have people suddenly changing genders?  Either way, makes sense, although I'm not seeing a pure correlation between this and player vs. character gender.

Quote
Ah, right, yes, I see where you are coming from on this now. And I agree that the argument is complete bunkum. For one thing, dragons, elves, spider demons and tentacle monsters do exist..... *whistles innocently*

No, sorry, couldn't resist that. I agree, though that the occupation analogy works well. I think, though it has to do with the more intimate nature of one's gender. Another good analogy here is religion. You choose your job. You choose your religion, but you are born a certain gender and a certain orientation. (I DO hope no one is going to try and tell me that sexual orientation is a choice?) Changing how you are made is actually difficult, painful and (I believe) expensive. There are people who do it, but I don't think anyone should undertake such a procedure lightly.

And so, it is easier to role-play a different job, because for most of us it is easier to imagine ourselves in a different job, than it is to imagine ourselves as a different gender!

Not even everyone will agree that the surgery is enough to change your gender.  However, if it was as simple as the difficulty of the surgical transformation, if we presume to raise the tech level to a point where a human could be made into a spider demon or tentacle monster, such things would be even more difficult and time-consuming than simple gender transformation.

However, should the tech level raise to the point where people can become spider demons and tentacle monsters, it is entirely possible that the same stigma will arise which the transgenders now face, the same way that cross-dressing for a Shakespearean play wasn't thought of the same way that cross-dressing is today.

Quote
I agree in principal, but as I've never been seduced by a female NPC played by a male GM, I cannot answer from experience. As I said in the previous discussion, I've never until now participated in a RP where the GM did not also have a player character, and the NPCs were controlled uniformly by all the players.

Admittedly, we come from two different styles of RP.  That's not a bad thing, but it does make it a bit difficult at times to draw comparisons.

Quote
Yes, I agree, but I have an answer: "Why are you in a NC game if you don't want to be raped?" I do want to be raped, I just want to be raped by her and not by you!

And your point about changing beliefs is exactly why we are having this discussion. I know I'm not a good GM. If I were I would have my orange badge by now - Goddess knows I've tried often enough. So, I come here and I raise these contentious issues and argue them back and forth in the hope of achieving some sort of GM Buddhahood. Or at least a greater state of enlightenment than I'm currently at.

Every answer I get is carefully weighed and examined and if I think it will help improve my GMing I take it on board!

I have the orange badge and I don't consider myself truly enlightened, though I have people who tell me that I run great stuff, but any story idea I have usually peters out from people's lack of posting.

My trick to getting one was relatively simple: I came up with a concept where everyone was able to RP with anyone, based upon a common theme and developing a setting where this could take place in relative ease.  I also dealt with problems as they came up.  Then I added things so that it was very easy for people to come and go, and story reasons that a person could be temporarily removed in the event that they stopped posting.

If you like, I can post a number of those for you with various bullet points.

Quote
Isn't that what the "Help the players broke my game" thread is for? If it isn't, Thufir, you are going to be getting a lot of PMs!

Well, yeah, but I don't want to brag about making a thread, nor try to force someone to read a thread I made.  Besides, as soon as the mission is done in the only game I'm running right now, I'm going to stop running stuff until I finish my novel.

Online Thufir Hawat

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #463 on: April 09, 2012, 04:14:40 PM »
I've read your thread, AndyZ, so you're not making me read it. But I'd point out that nobody has asked a question there yet.
Actually, for some reason, this thread gets more attention even when it seems to be under the purview of the "broken games" thread ;D!

Offline Chrystal

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #464 on: April 09, 2012, 05:32:02 PM »
I'm guessing it was some sort of supernatural setting to have people suddenly changing genders?  Either way, makes sense, although I'm not seeing a pure correlation between this and player vs. character gender.

Actually it was an on-line roleplaying game called Furcadia. I was having a nice little sex scene with this girl, when suddenly she says she'll be right back and vanishes, to re-appear a moment later as a male.

The connection here is that a lesbian character being portrayed by a lesbian player would have no reason to do that. Only a male player (with all due respect to the guys here whom I am sure would never dream of such a thing) would feel sufficiently threatened by a gay woman to even contemplate that.


Quote
Not even everyone will agree that the surgery is enough to change your gender.  However, if it was as simple as the difficulty of the surgical transformation, if we presume to raise the tech level to a point where a human could be made into a spider demon or tentacle monster, such things would be even more difficult and time-consuming than simple gender transformation.

However, should the tech level raise to the point where people can become spider demons and tentacle monsters, it is entirely possible that the same stigma will arise which the transgenders now face, the same way that cross-dressing for a Shakespearean play wasn't thought of the same way that cross-dressing is today.

I don't think it is down to surgery. I know some people here on E who have openly confessed to being women trapped in men's bodies - and in case anyone is wondering yes they are Lieges. If you did surgery on me and changed me into a man on the outside, I would still be a woman inside. (And if anyone says that inside every (straight) man is a lesbian struggling to get out I will slap them... *giggles*).

But again, I think there is a flaw in your argument regarding surgery. Suppose we could transform a human into a giant spider or a hive-mind insect colony, or a creature made of pinkish gloop? It is a choice, and I think perhaps this is what it boils down to: Free will versus predestination. If the technology were available to transform me into a tentacle monster, and I chose to do so, inside that tentacle monster i would still be a lesbian. I would still be a female tentacle monster that fancied women. It doesn't change what I am.

I mentioned sex-change surgery purely so that I could discount it. Changing your physical appearance does not change what you are inside.

Quote
I have the orange badge and I don't consider myself truly enlightened, though I have people who tell me that I run great stuff, but any story idea I have usually peters out from people's lack of posting.

My trick to getting one was relatively simple: I came up with a concept where everyone was able to RP with anyone, based upon a common theme and developing a setting where this could take place in relative ease.  I also dealt with problems as they came up.  Then I added things so that it was very easy for people to come and go, and story reasons that a person could be temporarily removed in the event that they stopped posting.

If you like, I can post a number of those for you with various bullet points.

Um yeah, once again you fall foul of my evil sense of humour, MUUUAHAHAHAAAAA! I'm pretty sure that getting the orange badge is a combination of luck, timing, having a really good idea in the first place, and good GMing. My point really is that the first two are pretty much out of my control, I have loads of great ideas, and the only thing I'm able to improve on is my GM skills.

Quote
Well, yeah, but I don't want to brag about making a thread, nor try to force someone to read a thread I made.  Besides, as soon as the mission is done in the only game I'm running right now, I'm going to stop running stuff until I finish my novel.

Good luck with that. I'd love to get a novel published. Never seem to be able to write something long enough though.

Online AndyZ

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #465 on: April 09, 2012, 07:02:46 PM »
Actually it was an on-line roleplaying game called Furcadia. I was having a nice little sex scene with this girl, when suddenly she says she'll be right back and vanishes, to re-appear a moment later as a male.

The connection here is that a lesbian character being portrayed by a lesbian player would have no reason to do that. Only a male player (with all due respect to the guys here whom I am sure would never dream of such a thing) would feel sufficiently threatened by a gay woman to even contemplate that.

I haven't talked to this person, and it could well be simple bigotry, but I'll argue the "no reason" and the "only a male player" bit.  I've heard of people playing other genders in order to satisfy a partner who had a particular preference, not because of being threatened by someone's sexuality but either she thought you'd enjoy it more, or she enjoyed heterosexual sex more than lesbian sex and didn't realize you were gay.

Given the sheer ease of transformation possible in a Furcadia game, would you consider transforming into a male, a tentacle monster or whatever else in order to satisfy your partner if you thought she'd enjoy it more?  Now, granted, I bet you'd ask first, but asking kind of shows that you've considered the idea, because it occurred to you and you thought it reasonable enough to ask.

Quote
I don't think it is down to surgery. I know some people here on E who have openly confessed to being women trapped in men's bodies - and in case anyone is wondering yes they are Lieges. If you did surgery on me and changed me into a man on the outside, I would still be a woman inside. (And if anyone says that inside every (straight) man is a lesbian struggling to get out I will slap them... *giggles*).

But again, I think there is a flaw in your argument regarding surgery. Suppose we could transform a human into a giant spider or a hive-mind insect colony, or a creature made of pinkish gloop? It is a choice, and I think perhaps this is what it boils down to: Free will versus predestination. If the technology were available to transform me into a tentacle monster, and I chose to do so, inside that tentacle monster i would still be a lesbian. I would still be a female tentacle monster that fancied women. It doesn't change what I am.

I mentioned sex-change surgery purely so that I could discount it. Changing your physical appearance does not change what you are inside.

Gotcha.  Didn't realize you were also discounting the same argument I was discounting.

Quote
Um yeah, once again you fall foul of my evil sense of humour, MUUUAHAHAHAAAAA! I'm pretty sure that getting the orange badge is a combination of luck, timing, having a really good idea in the first place, and good GMing. My point really is that the first two are pretty much out of my control, I have loads of great ideas, and the only thing I'm able to improve on is my GM skills.

Let me give you the bullet points, then, for what I figure creates a Big Group Game:

Entry/Exit:  New players will always be coming in, old players will always be leaving.  You can't really stop them, but what you can do is provide some method for the ease of transition.  If you have a story, you want the story to be simple enough that anyone can easily jump in and won't have to read through several pages of stuff.

Although this would seem to imply a sandbox game would be best, and I've had many games where I didn't want to start midstream if there was too much complex story and intrigue that I didn't want to sift through, there's probably a way to do it with a proper story.

Encourage Temporary Pairing: The fastest posting occurs between two people.  Three or more will have to wait for the slowest of the group, and people will quickly get bored while waiting, while the slower will feel as though they've been ignored if people just keep on posting without them.

If you can get people to go off on their own into separate rooms, likely for sex but other options could feasibly exist, they can match up with the fastest people and have at it to their hearts' content.

Dealing with Vanishers: Sometimes players vanish, and when they do, the characters tend to not do too much for a very long time.  Their partners will not like this because they'll want to play with someone else.

As one option, you allow players the freedom to leave their private rooms if they think the other person just vanished.  I came up with an IC reason for having people suddenly get teleported away, and with a little creativity, the same can be done.

Discouraging Long-term Pairing: Characters fall in love, and then they'll want to spend all their time only with that person.  That tends to slow down the RP as the players get bored, accept each of the players and start looking for something else that they can do.

Now, this may not be a problem in your game, but in order to rank up those posts, you want the characters to separate from each other and go spend time with some of the other fun players.  You can have any number of reasons for this.

Multiple GMs: There's a short story called A Pail of Air, where one of the characters talks about how courage is like a ball.  You can only carry it for so long on your own, and then you pass it off, letting someone else be the brave and the strong one for a while.

GMs burn out.  They have to keep everything going, deal with all the gripes, and it can get taxing.  Another person has to be ready to take their place and make sure things don't fall down.

I think those are the big ones.  I'm sure others will have some suggestions.

Quote
Good luck with that. I'd love to get a novel published. Never seem to be able to write something long enough though.

It started out as about 3 shorter stories (not technically short stories as none of them occur in only one setting) about 13,000 words each.  I actually wrote the whole thing three times (except for the final chapter, which I only wrote twice) over the course of nearly three years.

At some point, you'll have an awesome story which would be fantastic if you could get everyone to do exactly what you wanted them to do, make what you wanted them to make, and so on.  When that day comes, you'll realize just as I did that it'd be insane to try to run it as an RP, and you're much better off making a novel.

I have the first one written up at 60,476 words, but haven't been able to find anyone willing to publish it yet.  Still kinda floundering in the dark on how to accomplish that properly.  However, the second one has burned a grip into my brain and doesn't seem to want to let me think of much else until it's on the page too.

Offline Chrystal

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #466 on: May 07, 2012, 04:04:12 PM »
Okay, a general question that doesn't seem to belong anywhere else and probably has a very short answer thus it doesn't really need it's own thread:

How do other GMs deal with their players' Ons/Offs?

To elaborate (And this hasn't actually happened to me, I'm being hypothetical): Suppose a player has something explicitly listed in their offs, say they don't like anal sex, for example. Now, suppose that this player pairs up with another and the two of them are getting along fine and the plot elements are all working and the sex scenes are exciting and the two players are having a wonderful time and then the second player posts that they are having anal sex with the first player.....

How does one deal with that situation?

This of course assumes that the player who's O/O's have been transgressed has complained to the GM.

(Incidentally, I don't think it matters one jot which forum the RP is in. Offs are offs).

Now, my first thought would be to ask the player "Have you mentioned this to the other player?" If they haven't then they should. Things were going so well between them, it would be stupid to wreck it over one post that can be easily edited.

But suppose the other player has said something stupid like "I don't see what the problem is". What then? As GM you have a duty to intervene and try and keep the peace between players. Probably a quick explanation via PM of what Ons and Offs mean and why they should be respected... "What turns you off? Well, imagine someone posting that happening to your character, how would you feel about that?"

But suppose they are one of those rare individuals with absolutely no offs? Suppose they shrug your explanation off? What then? Is that the point at which one should bring a moderator in?

I'm always hopeful that people will be reasonable and behave like the adults that they are supposed to be, and that situations can be resolved before they get that far, but what if?

Offline Josietta

  • ♥ The Sweet Lil Heartbreaker of E ◦ Princessa ◦ BabyCakes ◦ | Minx | SisterKitten | ~ MC Wifey ~ ✨ Ely's Bestie Babe ✨ ♥ Jewel ♥ ֍ Babygirl ֍
  • Dame
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Location: ♥ HawkGirl -- GO SEAHAWKS!! ♥
  • Gender: Female
  • ~ His Kitten ~
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #467 on: May 07, 2012, 04:30:36 PM »
I recently in the last few months encountered this exact thing personally. I have anal in my offs. The player I was playing opposite of in the group game was a huge fan of anal. I believe that he, as most adults should do, handled it in the best way possible. Before playing out that part of the scene he sent me a PM and asked me about it, since I hadn't updated my offs page to include it in any form, he felt it was safe to ask than assume. I think all players should take that approach. It won't take but a minute to stop and write out a PM and ask your fellow player. If you don't feel comfortable enough talking to your partner in that given situation about such things then its likely that you shouldn't be doing that sort of writing with said partner to begin with. GMs are there to help but in this situation I'd like to think the players are adult enough to handle it. :) 

-My two cents!

EDIT: If it escalates to a point where the GM is called in on it, then its up to the GM. Mods have told me that as a GM of a small or large group game you are the moderator. Your rules are steadfast and up to you to enforce. The ONLY time a mod should be involved is if the player takes it to a point of such incivility that it disrupts the game as a whole and cannot be worked out otherwise.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 04:32:31 PM by Josietta »

Online Thufir Hawat

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #468 on: May 07, 2012, 04:31:43 PM »
If your players aren't behaving like responsible adults, you deal with them the same way you deal with other irresponsible adults. This varies with each GM, but hopefully, we all know how to deal with them.
Personally, I'd just make it clear that disrespecting another player's offs is the quick way to stop playing in my game, but again, that's me and might not fit other people.

Offline Chrystal

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #469 on: May 07, 2012, 05:37:57 PM »
I have mentioned before that I always make it plain that N/C refers to the character not the player. However, I was thinking along the lines of a RP in light where the characters have already done six or eight posts of a sex scene between them.

I do agree with Josietta, that it should be resolved via PM between the players without the GM getting involved at all, I was simply posing a hypothetical "What if?"

And, while I haven't had anything similar happen in a group game where I was GM, I have had something happen where I was a player. My gay femail character wandered off from the group she was with, and suddenly she was "accosted" by a male character. Well I had my character tell his that she wasn't interested. I PMed him to say I wasn't interested. Finally I PMed the GM and said, please will you tell this jackass to back off? Or words to that effect... So yeah, it does happen, but thankfully it is quite rare.

Offline NileGoddess

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #470 on: May 07, 2012, 06:04:37 PM »
How do other GMs deal with their players' Ons/Offs?

My opinion is that this is more of an issue for the player themselves to deal with, but the GM can have some influence.

Obviously, it's primarily up to the participating players first to decide if a game is indeed for them, and that should take care of most of the problem. People wanting to play a certain range of kinks will seek out games that offer them. Every once in a while you'll get that stray person who clearly doesn't understand the concept of the game, or decides to try and sneak in his own things to play, and those are the people the GMs need to watch out for.

However, that being said, this only works to a certain resolution. For example, two people enter a BDSM game, and one of them says, 'no ball gags'. Sometime like this example is easily fixed though. Chrystal, the case you mentioned where the character accosted yours and you had to go through multiple mediums to tell him no is where it becomes a problem. Obviously, we should all be mature adults and talk things out, but sometimes we don't have that luxury. Just because you're in the game doesn't mean you are locked in to obey the games kinks to the letter, especially if they are a broad range.

PMs are usually the way to go, or some form of clear communication. I was in an incident once that stemmed from a lack of communication, and it quickly trainwrecked and turned into something huge. However, during the entire time, I had no idea what was even going on or what the cause was. If the players can't work it out, then the GM gets brought in.

Offline alxnjshTopic starter

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #471 on: July 01, 2012, 08:38:46 PM »
Are all the GMs on vacation these days?  ::)

Looks like we had another group game get promoted to a sub-board. Congrats  :-)

Offline Chrystal

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #472 on: July 02, 2012, 04:04:56 AM »
Hmm....

I've sort-of given up GM-ing for the time being following the untimely demise of my two latest games.

I suspect that it's simply that I don't have the patience to run a group game the way it needs to be run. So I shall content myself with joining other people's games and trying to keep them going, and occasionally offering up an idea for a group game for anyone to take if they wish.

Offline alxnjshTopic starter

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #473 on: July 02, 2012, 11:09:40 AM »
I totally understand that - patience is not my strong suit and I'm hoping my co-GM will help me a bit :)

Online HairyHeretic

  • Lei varai barbu - The true bearded one
  • Knight
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2006
  • Location: Ireland
  • Gender: Male
  • And the Scorpion said "Little frog .. I can swim."
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #474 on: July 02, 2012, 03:08:42 PM »
Life decided to get interesting for me for a while. I'm slowly getting back to writing.