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Author Topic: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions  (Read 56523 times)

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Online TheGlyphstone

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #325 on: March 09, 2012, 07:31:13 AM »
In this particular instance, I agree with WL - this was rude, deceitful, and uncivil, by going behind an existing GM's back and attempting to convince their players to quit that game to join another.

Claiming that any act of PMing players in an existing game to join yours is uncivil, on the other hand, I find a bit absurd. To start with, there's the point that not everyone reads Players Wanted, and as you said, sometimes it's easier to keep to a list of reliable and trusted players for game applicants. When you PM a player directly, all you're doing differently is getting the attention of someone who might never have known your game existed otherwise, and likely a quicker turnaround time on the yes/no answer. If it's the GM's responsibility to write a convincing ad, it's the player's responsibility to know their own limits and judge if adding another game to their active list would hurt their existing ones. In neither case is it the existing GM's right to decide how their (adult) players are allowed to manage their time, or to forbid them from joining other games. There's no E-rule forbidding a player to join multiple games, else every single person posting a PW ad would be equally guilty of attempting poaching by virtue of simply advertising their game's existence.


TLDR:
 "You're playing X game, X game is dead/sucks, want to come play my Xy game instead?" - not cool.
"You're playing X game, so you like XX genre, want to come play my Xy game too?" - perfectly acceptable.

Offline Water Lilly

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #326 on: March 10, 2012, 03:15:33 AM »
Thanks for your advice, guys!

*offers hugs all 'round*

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #327 on: March 10, 2012, 06:49:15 AM »
Yay hugs.

Offline NileGoddess

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #328 on: March 10, 2012, 04:25:17 PM »
He pm'd four out of five of my players...three of us on the same pm. I message him back saying that I'd hardly call my game 'former', and given he's approached four of my writers I felt a poaching coming on. I then invited him to read my game, telling him he owed me that much, seeing as he was trying to steal my players. I kept it light hearted and used lots of smiles, but i think my message was quite clear. Hopefully he'll get the hint.

In my opinion, this is pretty much poaching, if not something very close to it. Especially if he's got the stones to try and falsely advertise your game as finishing up. Let's compare two separate examples:

Lily, if your group game consisted of 15+ players, having someone approach a couple of them because of specific/similar roles wouldn't be a real problem. The game would be big enough to sustain itself (I'm assuming), and this person might just be looking for adept players for certain roles.

However, in your situation, they're going after what seems to be your entire game. Now, I'm not talking about specific people in general, but I've encountered players who simply can't budget their time. They may think they can take on another game, but what ultimately ends up happening is they drop a couple of other games because their attention is suddenly occupied by this new and shiny idea. So they very well could kill the entire game by doing this.

Furthermore, the concept on whether they are justified in running a similar game depends on a couple of things. If it's a very popular franchise (like say in a comic series or tv series), then overlap is inevitable. But if the idea is unique, original, and generated on this site alone, then it's blatant copying, and that's not okay, especially if they are trying to goad players in your game into theirs.

So, I'd guess I say that what they are doing isn't okay, and definitely warrants a PM to a staff member. I'm running a hentai based group game at the moment, and I'd be super pissed if someone PMed all my players with 'Hey, I see that you are in this type of game, but I don't think it looks very fun. Would you mind joining my similar game with a character similar to yours?' Of course, I have no issue with my players discovering a similar game themselves and expressing their interest to play. That's their decision.  But someone just can't go and poach players from one game to their own. That's what interest checks are for. If you post an idea, and people want to play it, they will. If people don't want to play it, they won't. I've put out a couple of game ideas that generated little to no interest. It sucks, but that's just the way it goes.

Offline Thufir Hawat

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #329 on: March 10, 2012, 05:14:14 PM »
TLDR:
 "You're playing X game, X game is dead/sucks, want to come play my Xy game instead?" - not cool.
"You're playing X game, so you like XX genre, want to come play my Xy game too?" - perfectly acceptable.
This puts it really succinctly, so I can just quote it instead of explaining where I'm coming from 8-).

In my opinion, this is pretty much poaching, if not something very close to it. Especially if he's got the stones to try and falsely advertise your game as finishing up. Let's compare two separate examples:

Lily, if your group game consisted of 15+ players, having someone approach a couple of them because of specific/similar roles wouldn't be a real problem. The game would be big enough to sustain itself (I'm assuming), and this person might just be looking for adept players for certain roles.

However, in your situation, they're going after what seems to be your entire game. Now, I'm not talking about specific people in general, but I've encountered players who simply can't budget their time. They may think they can take on another game, but what ultimately ends up happening is they drop a couple of other games because their attention is suddenly occupied by this new and shiny idea. So they very well could kill the entire game by doing this.

Furthermore, the concept on whether they are justified in running a similar game depends on a couple of things. If it's a very popular franchise (like say in a comic series or tv series), then overlap is inevitable. But if the idea is unique, original, and generated on this site alone, then it's blatant copying, and that's not okay, especially if they are trying to goad players in your game into theirs.

So, I'd guess I say that what they are doing isn't okay, and definitely warrants a PM to a staff member. I'm running a hentai based group game at the moment, and I'd be super pissed if someone PMed all my players with 'Hey, I see that you are in this type of game, but I don't think it looks very fun. Would you mind joining my similar game with a character similar to yours?' Of course, I have no issue with my players discovering a similar game themselves and expressing their interest to play. That's their decision.  But someone just can't go and poach players from one game to their own. That's what interest checks are for. If you post an idea, and people want to play it, they will. If people don't want to play it, they won't. I've put out a couple of game ideas that generated little to no interest. It sucks, but that's just the way it goes.
OTOH, if I ever hear any of my GMs, on E. or elsewhere wants to decide for me whether I should receive an advertisement about another game, I'm not justgoing to drop his or her game faster than a hot potato! I'm also going to contact the staff, since to me, this amounts to possessiveness towards writing partners and interfering with out of game decisions. AFAIK, both of these are frowned upon, so I'd expect appropriate measures to be taken >:)!
As further food for thought, I'm currently running and playing several games in the same genre on other sites. It doesn't impact them negatively, nor have I dropped any of my games in different genres ;).

Online HairyHeretic

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Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #330 on: March 10, 2012, 05:58:39 PM »
If someone has only limited time to write though, will they be able to play in both games?

Will you end up with some people playing both, or some moving from one game to the other?

Will game B cost game A some players at the end of the day?

Rather than start up a competing game, what if the second GM asked if the first GM might want a co-GM? Two GMs can handle more players, and if their ideas are relatively close, do you end up with a bigger and better game because of it?

Just a few stray thoughts on the subject at hand.

Offline Water Lilly

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #331 on: March 11, 2012, 01:30:18 AM »
I sent a copy of the pm to a staff member, who'd received a similar pm from the same person.  They looked into it, and passed it on for future reference, but didn't think there was much in it.  Like I said to them...it's not so much the attempted poach - I'm confident that everyone is still loving the story we have going - as the implication that my game is dead.  Sure...it's not the fastest moving group game on the planet, but the pace suits us, and the story.  So back off, buddy!  *laughs*

Thank you again, everyone, for your invaluable advice.  This is the first time I've ever GM'd a game, and it wasn't even meant to be a group game...it just kind of grew into one, so I have NO idea what I'm doing!

*huuuuuuuuuuugs everyone to bits*

Offline Thufir Hawat

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #332 on: March 11, 2012, 05:20:29 PM »
Yay for hugs!

*Hugs Water Lilly*

Also, glad you solved the matter.

Offline Haibane

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #333 on: March 12, 2012, 07:54:47 AM »
Pleased it turned out well, and also nice to see the GMs Corner being a useful self-help group!

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #334 on: March 12, 2012, 07:58:07 AM »
Drinks all around!

Offline Haibane

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #335 on: March 13, 2012, 05:54:48 AM »
I'll have a stiff one!

Er...  :-[

Offline Thufir Hawat

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #336 on: March 13, 2012, 12:18:35 PM »
Here, have this one ;D!

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #337 on: March 13, 2012, 12:20:48 PM »
I'll have a stiff one!

Er...  :-[

*eyebrow waggle*

Offline Adonis

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #338 on: March 17, 2012, 03:36:52 PM »
Alrighty ladies and gents. Ive had the pleasure of running one group game here that made it to "Big Group" status (With the immense help of our Lovely Kendra & Secretwriter). Im doing my best to kick off something new here on the boards that Ive yet to see.

However, I'm running into a few snags that I've never dealt with. Things seem to be moving along steadily, and as with all new group games, people flake out (mostly newer members that were a bit iffy in the first place).

Here's the thing. The premise is based on dragon/dragonrider. Ive mixed pern, D&D, dragonlance, and several other influences into one, and the idea I think it pairing out extremely well. *However* There were certain restrictions that I placed on the game that I'm having to re-thing. The biggest one is based on duality.

Dragons and riders play as pairs. They've started as pairs, and thus it makes them stronger. However, what I'm running into, is as the younger/newer players here on the boards flake, Im left with riderless dragons, and dragonless riders. This wouldn't be so much of an issue, except for the fact of how the "evil" races came to be. Without riders, I warped them to the point that colors changed (making them "chromatic" if you will, in respect to Dragonlance).

I guess what I'm getting at, is how can I introduce people one at a time, and maintain the fact that the pairing is needed so as to not twist them to the "evil" side of things? (Keep in mind, I am *not* wanting a dual-sided game to keep things simple and civil, since things are freeform)

I think once I get that established, I'll be able to begin recruiting once more, and remove the rushed, non-sandbox feeling of the game. Personally, Ive been sinking every spare hour I have into the development of this game, and the concept is like nothing Ive come across here on E so far. I would be loathe to let it sputter off, and want to see it come off the ground in a major way.

**Edit**

http://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=133713.0 <-- The directory, for those of you who would like more information to help answer my question.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2012, 03:38:23 PM by Adonis »

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #339 on: March 17, 2012, 04:03:22 PM »
Allow re-pairings if a bond is broken? A new solo player could be a rider or dragon who had the opposite part of their bond killed in some manner, and it would allow your existing players to pair off again.

Offline Adonis

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #340 on: March 17, 2012, 04:11:40 PM »
The re-pairing is something I've been working on, and have done once already. The issue is less of handling current players as it is introducing new players. The near requirement to enter in pairs is coming off a lot like Im shooting myself in the foot here.

What I'm starting to work on at the moment is simply muting abilities until they're paired up. The dragons are less powerful, the riders just normal "people" until pairs are made. But that also brings the issue of people going pair-less because no one wants to "pick" them.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #341 on: March 17, 2012, 08:02:57 PM »
Is there some reason you can't just let one person play both halves of a pair, if the alternative is going unpartnered?

Offline Adonis

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #342 on: March 18, 2012, 08:51:43 AM »
I think I've got it all sorted out now. Maybe just needed to see the problem written down/out to figure out a solution :p As for having them pair with themselves, where's the fun in playing with yourself when there are others to enjoy ;)

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #343 on: March 18, 2012, 09:31:01 AM »
Well, if there were others to play with, the problem wouldn't exist, right? ;D

Offline Adonis

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #344 on: March 18, 2012, 10:03:46 AM »
Eh, the problem existed because I closed recruitment too early I believe. Im headed off to do an overhaul of the recruitment thread, add in a bunch more info, and hopefully draw in a new flock to mount some scaly beasts ;)

(Yes, both figuratively and literally haha)

Offline GhothaAyala

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #345 on: March 20, 2012, 04:11:20 PM »
Is it me or is there a lack of activity around these parts?

Offline NileGoddess

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #346 on: March 20, 2012, 04:30:44 PM »
You mean within this thread?

Well, I was actually just about to pose a question and request some advice/assistance. I was considering trying to generate a choice-based choose-your-own-adventure type of game, either solo or in a group. I'd be open to advice in how to plan it, structure it, or any other ways to optimize it. I think what I should do first is plan out player choices and plot pivots, but I'm not sure if I'm capable of doing that on my own.

Offline GhothaAyala

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #347 on: March 20, 2012, 05:20:32 PM »
So you actually need help creating the adventure catalog?

A choose your own adventure RP sounds... Very difficult thing to pull off or maybe its me reading too much between the lines. Will it be a number of small adventures within a predefined setting or are you talking about of creating a whole setting for the players to immerse themselves in?

Offline NileGoddess

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #348 on: March 20, 2012, 05:33:45 PM »
So you actually need help creating the adventure catalog?

A choose your own adventure RP sounds... Very difficult thing to pull off or maybe its me reading too much between the lines. Will it be a number of small adventures within a predefined setting or are you talking about of creating a whole setting for the players to immerse themselves in?

At this point for me, through my E activity, starting small is best.

Ideally, what I'd like to do is build something from scratch, but on a small scale. And it does sound difficult, because choices can lead to far different settings and plot developments. I remember trying a few of those books in my childhood, and I picked up on a few shortcuts, like a certain ending being attainable by two completely different paths in different settings.

Doing a dry run or simple planning session seems to be a more effective way of handling it. We'd bounce choices off each other, think of possible plot paths, etc., kind of like a trial and error test.

Offline GhothaAyala

Re: GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions
« Reply #349 on: March 20, 2012, 05:46:51 PM »
Well you are right about that part, starting simple and then expanding is the best.

I'm still not sure really what it is that you want to accomplish.

Is it choose your adventure as in you go that way and the other player goes that way and its all supposed to meet at some point?

Or is it about all players democratically choosing an adventure for them all that is supposed to end in a specific way?