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Author Topic: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed FULL)  (Read 25103 times)

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Offline Snake

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss
« Reply #450 on: January 05, 2012, 12:04:45 PM »
Disregard,
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 12:47:10 PM by Snake »

Offline Kunoichi

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss
« Reply #451 on: January 05, 2012, 12:32:52 PM »
mm That sounds interesting.. Lets do it! ^^

Alright.  Again, though, will you be going for a Devil, or a Demon with this character?

*cough* 10th-level sorcerer. *cough*

Yes, but she still gets to have a caster level of 21.  Which is useful for long-term buffs and the class features of certain prestige classes.

Offline Karasu

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed)
« Reply #452 on: January 06, 2012, 02:08:18 AM »
mm Probably the more good one.. whichever that is XD So probably Hell XD

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed)
« Reply #453 on: January 06, 2012, 06:02:28 AM »
mm Probably the more good one.. whichever that is XD So probably Hell XD

More good? We are talking about the fundamental embodiments of Evil here. Their flesh is made of of malecules surrounded by evilectrons.

At least Chaos is honest about its intentions to eventually betray you, and you get to have fun in the process.

Offline Sahariel

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed)
« Reply #454 on: January 06, 2012, 06:54:27 AM »
Hey guys,

I have one more question. Are we required to take the same skill and feat spread as the base template? I know we need to keep the base stats but is any variation in skills or feats permitted?

Offline Karasu

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed)
« Reply #455 on: January 06, 2012, 09:34:17 AM »
oki lemme put it anoter way.. Mroe lawful XD

Offline Kunoichi

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed)
« Reply #456 on: January 06, 2012, 01:04:53 PM »
Hey guys,

I have one more question. Are we required to take the same skill and feat spread as the base template? I know we need to keep the base stats but is any variation in skills or feats permitted?

Yes, you're allowed to mess with skills and feats however you want.  Which is a good thing, since most monsters have terrible feat selection, and skill choices are usually above average at best...

oki lemme put it anoter way.. Mroe lawful XD

Alright, so you're going for the Devilish side of things.  Which means we don't have to worry about giving you immunity to Fire or Poison, or look for Telepathy.

The best use for a Dragon's spellcasting, and the one most dragons put their spellcasting to, is a gish build, wherein your innate magical talents are used to reinforce and boost your own melee abilities.  As a result, it would probably be best to go for templates and prestige classes that do the same.

Do you want to work for one of the other players, or strike out on your own?

Offline Sahariel

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed)
« Reply #457 on: January 06, 2012, 02:27:11 PM »
Yes, you're allowed to mess with skills and feats however you want.  Which is a good thing, since most monsters have terrible feat selection, and skill choices are usually above average at best...

Hey thanks again Kunoichi, how's your game going so far?



Offline Karasu

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed)
« Reply #458 on: January 07, 2012, 08:53:52 AM »
Alright, so you're going for the Devilish side of things.  Which means we don't have to worry about giving you immunity to Fire or Poison, or look for Telepathy.

The best use for a Dragon's spellcasting, and the one most dragons put their spellcasting to, is a gish build, wherein your innate magical talents are used to reinforce and boost your own melee abilities.  As a result, it would probably be best to go for templates and prestige classes that do the same.

Do you want to work for one of the other players, or strike out on your own?

What on earth is a Gish Build?

And likely I might have him a loner at first, but I do encourage others to try and tempt him to work for them.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed)
« Reply #459 on: January 07, 2012, 11:14:27 AM »
A "Gish" is a fighter-mage, typically a melee warrior who augments themselves with buff spells, rather than slinging spells at enemies from range.

Offline SomeGuy

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed)
« Reply #460 on: January 07, 2012, 11:15:08 AM »
Arcane strike.

Offline Snake

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed)
« Reply #461 on: January 07, 2012, 11:19:40 AM »
You make it sound like ait's a bad thing to do that.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed)
« Reply #462 on: January 07, 2012, 11:26:47 AM »
Who makes what a bad thing?

Offline Snake

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed)
« Reply #463 on: January 07, 2012, 11:30:09 AM »
Using magic to back up or alter physical ability (IE Gish) I think it's a good idea. if you have the ability to do it right why not?

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed)
« Reply #464 on: January 07, 2012, 11:31:45 AM »
Using magic to back up or alter physical ability (IE Gish) I think it's a good idea. if you have the ability to do it right why not?

No one's even vaguely implied it's a bad idea. In fact, for dragons it's a phenomenal idea as we've recommended, because they don't have the spell slots or caster level to match a real mage in combat, but are still melee brutes who can be even nastier with some well-chosen buffs. What could have possibly given you the idea we were saying it was bad?

Offline Snake

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed)
« Reply #465 on: January 07, 2012, 11:39:54 AM »
I've always heard doing it was consistently downplayed by more....hardcore players. 

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed)
« Reply #466 on: January 07, 2012, 12:01:49 PM »
I've always heard doing it was consistently downplayed by more....hardcore players.

What does that have to do with what we actually said?

Quote
A "Gish" is a fighter-mage, typically a melee warrior who augments themselves with buff spells, rather than slinging spells at enemies from range.
Quote
Arcane strike

Offline Snake

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed)
« Reply #467 on: January 07, 2012, 12:03:52 PM »
Sorry it just made me have a flash of deja vu from reading an article on character building yesterday.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed)
« Reply #468 on: January 07, 2012, 12:08:34 PM »
Well, from a strict power perspective, you're right - spellcasting is superior to melee in terms of its ability to eliminate opponents, which is what most fights come down to. So a Gish is 'worse' from a levelling perspective than a pure spellcaster because it delays access to the gamebreakers of top-end spells, but better than a mundane melee because MAGIC. If you start at a high level, though, a Gish is superior to a standard spellcaster because they have 9th level spells and the ability to stab things in the face for the one-in-a-million occasion where a spell won't do the job. They're still 'worse' than the most powerful of pure spellcasting classes, but that's pushing the boundary between PO and TO so it's neither here nor there.

TLDR: The more magic you have, the more powerful you are. Gishing slows your access to more magic, so it's less powerful, unless you start high enough level where it doesn't matter, in which case it becomes more powerful.

Offline Snake

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed)
« Reply #469 on: January 07, 2012, 12:17:11 PM »
So it's kind of " jack of all trades" type thing? Experienced in many things butmaster of none?

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed)
« Reply #470 on: January 07, 2012, 01:17:00 PM »
So it's kind of " jack of all trades" type thing? Experienced in many things butmaster of none?

Not really, that's more the province of skillmonkey classes like the bard or rogue. Magic in 3.X is just that good and flexible, that if you're experienced with magic, you're experienced with everything else too. A fully powered gish is a full spellcaster who is also capable of mixing it up in melee - pure spellcasters aren't capable of melee, but they're so ridiculously powerful that they don't need to melee to accomplish anything.

So it's more Power+ than Jack-of-All-Trades - a Gish at endgame is just as powerful as a full caster, but during the grind from low to high levels, they have lower magical proficiency and higher melee proficiency. Because magic > melee, that equates a net loss, but it's relatively minor...with magic, you'll still vastly outclass a mundane, and you've got all the magic tricks a pure spellcaster can pull out (if a few less/day most likely).


Offline Kunoichi

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed)
« Reply #471 on: January 07, 2012, 01:41:47 PM »
Draconomicon even has some excellent Sorcerer/Wizard spells designed specifically for upping a Dragon's melee ability.

Though, given the limit on spellcasting in this game, it might be worth it to pick up the Monster of Legend template's Cleric casting, to go with the innate Sorcerer casting.  Steel Dragons do have a higher Wisdom score than their Charisma, after all.  Use the class levels to progress it, maybe via something like the Dweomerkeeper prestige class (found in the Complete Divine Web Enhancement) and you could have access to some good arcane and divine melee buffs. ^^

Just imagine a dragon making use of Righteous Might...

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed)
« Reply #472 on: January 07, 2012, 02:29:42 PM »
Dragons already have full BAB (as do Outsiders), so Righteous Might would do a lot less for one than you'd think.

Offline Karasu

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed)
« Reply #473 on: January 07, 2012, 02:31:47 PM »
sounds pretty freaking awesome to me. Can you make the sheet? (Sucks at it >.<)

Offline Kunoichi

Re: A interest call: 3.5 DnD Unique Devil/Demon Campaign in Hell/Abyss (closed)
« Reply #474 on: January 07, 2012, 09:13:36 PM »
Dragons already have full BAB (as do Outsiders), so Righteous Might would do a lot less for one than you'd think.

Righteous Might doesn't do anything to BAB at all, though.  It increases size and adds alignment-based DR.

sounds pretty freaking awesome to me. Can you make the sheet? (Sucks at it >.<)

I could, but it'll take me a little while, since school's back in session. ^^; I also won't be able to do anything on Myth-Weavers, or whatever online sheet site you prefer.  It'll just be a basic text sheet, like the ones I made for my characters.