You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 09, 2016, 09:07:36 PM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: Should teen tweeter apologize?  (Read 3848 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Silverfyre

  • Mr. Fyre, or if you're slightly more daring, oh Silver my Silver.
  • Knight
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Location: Affixed to a Star
  • Gender: Male
  • Once more, with gusto.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Should teen tweeter apologize?
« Reply #50 on: November 29, 2011, 06:35:35 PM »
A good question.  I think that is why there is a great deal of outrage on the school's response.

Offline Beguile's Mistress

  • Time flies like an arrow ~ Fruit flies like a banana ~ Elliquiy's Fair-E Godmother
  • Dame
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Location: Faeleacanvald ~ The Steeler Nation ~ Home of Lord Stanley's Cup 2016 ~ She won't stay throwed! ~ 48\22-5\1\11-5\7
  • Gender: Female
  • Perpetual Notion Machine ~ 'What if...?'
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Should teen tweeter apologize?
« Reply #51 on: November 29, 2011, 07:08:31 PM »
She condemned herself? She needs to seek redemption for her words?  She spoke out in a disrespectful way to a state official; she didn't set a church full of children on fire and dance around the ashes.  I think some folks are taking this entirely too strongly than it needs to be taken.  She was disrespectful yes, but the governor's office's own actions speak of just as much dishonesty and disrespect.  Bullying her school into making her issue an apology speaks louder to me than some 18 year old's white lie to her Tumblr followers and her rude opinion on a state official.  There is a big difference between an 18 year old and an experienced adult who has a great deal of public responsibility.

Am I saying that the blame lies entirely outside of her? Not at all. She did this in a way that could have been done a great deal better and a great deal more constructively.  Do I think she should be judged solely by this action and made to "seek redemption" for her remarks? No.  Her entire life and professional reputation is not going to hinge on this single instance.  I think it is being a little extreme here.

You don't understand that in the business/corporate world what I'm saying really exists.

No matter what she does from now on, no matter where she goes or what she achieves she'll always be known as the girl who said the governor blows.

And lied about saying it to his face.

We discussed this extensively at work today and I wasn't the one who brought it up.  Everything else aside and on a purely professional level she presents as a person who is unreliable and refuses to take correction or direction.  The immaturity might be correctable as well as the foul language which are both highly inappropriate in a business setting but the lying is a big problem and is a red flag.  She does not inspire trust and where people could be more forgiving she didn't even apologize for lying.  In the corporate world where confidentiality and legalities are more important than personal opinion she is tainted.  Maybe as someone's little girl, a child, she could get away with it but it's out there on the web and someone will always bring it up.

If you want to hire her fine.  If you want her to represent you and your company that's great.  If you want to hold her up as a role model to other young people be my guest.  I can't in good conscience put her in any position where she would come in contact with customers because of her reputation and I can't protect her from hazing by fellow employees because of her actions.  I mean, they have as much right to criticize her as she did the governor.  Her reputation and actions will be forever attached to her like toilet paper stuck on her shoe.  Her reputation is what she made it and only she can fix it. 

I didn't do this to her.  She did it to herself.  She made her bed, now she has to lay in it.

The governor's people and the school could have handled things better too, but the governor actually comes out looking better than she does because he took responsibility for what his people did and apologized to her.

The thing is that no matter how you argue it and how much you don't like it she's up against a tough situation that she created for herself with, I think, some help from her sister.  Whether or not I like it, agree with it or endorse it is beside the point.  It is what it is.  Real life can really suck.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 07:16:26 PM by Beguile's Mistress »

Offline Silverfyre

  • Mr. Fyre, or if you're slightly more daring, oh Silver my Silver.
  • Knight
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Location: Affixed to a Star
  • Gender: Male
  • Once more, with gusto.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Should teen tweeter apologize?
« Reply #52 on: November 29, 2011, 07:23:54 PM »
And not all business/corporate world companies are of one single mentality.  I have worked in the corporate sector before as both a base-level employee and in management.  Not all companies and employers are going to look at this single event and see her as "tainted'.  That's a generalization of an industry that is made up of many varied viewpoints, hiring policies and ethics.  There is no single "united business code" that all corporate companies follow.  I've learned that in my own years of working in such a sector and most of the companies I have worked for could really care less what one of their employees did when they were still in high school and not representing their school or place of employment.

The governor's office and it coming out of this better than she has is subjective.  I think they both look like idiots in their own ways and whatever backlash they have to deal with is something they will have to face.  Plain and simple.  I believe we agree on that at least.

It is what it is and it's their problem, not mine.  Would I hire her at the moment?  No.  Would I consider it in the future?  I can't say because I don't know her in the future or the type of person she will become.  She can change and grow, like all people and become a wonderful individual or she could stay the same, smart-mouthed teenager she is.  Only time will tell and until then, I don't like to speculate.

Offline Beguile's Mistress

  • Time flies like an arrow ~ Fruit flies like a banana ~ Elliquiy's Fair-E Godmother
  • Dame
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Location: Faeleacanvald ~ The Steeler Nation ~ Home of Lord Stanley's Cup 2016 ~ She won't stay throwed! ~ 48\22-5\1\11-5\7
  • Gender: Female
  • Perpetual Notion Machine ~ 'What if...?'
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Should teen tweeter apologize?
« Reply #53 on: November 29, 2011, 07:40:00 PM »
It was the governor's people who called, not the governor.  He apologized for their behavior and the actions they took unilaterally.

I know the world I work in, the clients I deal with and the corporate philosophies they embrace.  Perhaps she'll get lucky and find someone who couldn't care less about what she did in the past and perhaps she'll be even luckier and no one will recognize her name or play at Googling everyone they know and find her out.  Perhaps she'll grow up and gain some understanding. 

Every day I come across people who have trouble finding jobs because of what shows up in their past and every day I face choices of how to help them.  There is no help for some of them and she is very close to the demographic that falls into that category.

I get tired of people who think nothing of saying and doing mean, hurtful and nasty things and then act surprised when people don't want them around.  I also see the people that have been hurt by things like that.  They have my compassion.

I feel sorry for her and I pity her.  I truly do.

« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 07:41:34 PM by Beguile's Mistress »

Offline Silverfyre

  • Mr. Fyre, or if you're slightly more daring, oh Silver my Silver.
  • Knight
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Location: Affixed to a Star
  • Gender: Male
  • Once more, with gusto.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Should teen tweeter apologize?
« Reply #54 on: November 29, 2011, 07:47:57 PM »
I find it interesting that he has someone on staff who cruises around social media sites looking for things that make him look bad.  She would have slipped under the radar otherwise, I think.  I wonder if they use tax payer dollars for that...

But I have no doubt you know your part of the corporate sector and the business philosophies that are held by your employers and are used to measure your potential employees.  I would never question that as I know how much of a professional you are when it comes to such things and I commend you for it. 

What she said is foolish and rude but I don't think it is going to measure up in her future unless she lets it and she continues down such a course.  If it does, she reaps what she sows.  If she smartens up and remains outspoken yet does it in a respectful way, I applaud her for standing up for her beliefs.  No one should have to be forced into apologizing by a government institution or a school or organization that she was not representing.  What her principal was asking for was not in his jurisdiction nor in his rights.


Offline Zakharra

Re: Should teen tweeter apologize?
« Reply #55 on: November 30, 2011, 09:14:05 AM »
You don't understand that in the business/corporate world what I'm saying really exists.

No matter what she does from now on, no matter where she goes or what she achieves she'll always be known as the girl who said the governor blows.

And lied about saying it to his face.

We discussed this extensively at work today and I wasn't the one who brought it up.  Everything else aside and on a purely professional level she presents as a person who is unreliable and refuses to take correction or direction.  The immaturity might be correctable as well as the foul language which are both highly inappropriate in a business setting but the lying is a big problem and is a red flag.  She does not inspire trust and where people could be more forgiving she didn't even apologize for lying.  In the corporate world where confidentiality and legalities are more important than personal opinion she is tainted.  Maybe as someone's little girl, a child, she could get away with it but it's out there on the web and someone will always bring it up.

If you want to hire her fine.  If you want her to represent you and your company that's great.  If you want to hold her up as a role model to other young people be my guest.  I can't in good conscience put her in any position where she would come in contact with customers because of her reputation and I can't protect her from hazing by fellow employees because of her actions.  I mean, they have as much right to criticize her as she did the governor.  Her reputation and actions will be forever attached to her like toilet paper stuck on her shoe.  Her reputation is what she made it and only she can fix it. 

I didn't do this to her.  She did it to herself.  She made her bed, now she has to lay in it.

The governor's people and the school could have handled things better too, but the governor actually comes out looking better than she does because he took responsibility for what his people did and apologized to her.

The thing is that no matter how you argue it and how much you don't like it she's up against a tough situation that she created for herself with, I think, some help from her sister.  Whether or not I like it, agree with it or endorse it is beside the point.  It is what it is.  Real life can really suck.

 One, it's a small lie. Everyone does it. That's not really damaging. It's nothing of consequence. If it had been a bigger lie, then maybe yes that might be something. As Silverfyre says, 'There is a big difference between an 18 year old and an experienced adult who has a great deal of public responsibility.

Am I saying that the blame lies entirely outside of her? Not at all. She did this in a way that could have been done a great deal better and a great deal more constructively.  Do I think she should be judged solely by this action and made to "seek redemption" for her remarks? No.  Her entire life and professional reputation is not going to hinge on this single instance.  I think it is being a little extreme here. '

 You appear to be judging her worse than if she had a criminal record. Your words, 'A criminal record can be discussed and evaluated.  A criminal record is an issue that has many aspects to it and can be more than a black and white situation. '  Why can't this be discussed and evaluated? She's 18. What other positions besides entry level jobs, would she have right now? Would you have put her in a managerial position even if she hadn't said that? I highly doubt it.,  What about in 4-5 years after she has finished collage?  Why would a little incident be held over her head several years down the road?  She, 1, didn't steal anything, 2, didn't kill anyone, 3, didn't commit any ghastly crime. What she did was make a stupid comment to her friends. Sort of ego building. The only difference is it's in a media that it was spotted in.

 If she doesn't apologize as you seem to be asking (almost demanding in a way) and has a good solid work record for ten years, a diligent, reliable and good worker , would you refuse to hire her in ten years because of this little incident?

Offline Beguile's Mistress

  • Time flies like an arrow ~ Fruit flies like a banana ~ Elliquiy's Fair-E Godmother
  • Dame
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Location: Faeleacanvald ~ The Steeler Nation ~ Home of Lord Stanley's Cup 2016 ~ She won't stay throwed! ~ 48\22-5\1\11-5\7
  • Gender: Female
  • Perpetual Notion Machine ~ 'What if...?'
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Should teen tweeter apologize?
« Reply #56 on: November 30, 2011, 10:14:02 AM »
The work record might redeem her reputation.  Right now she has a reputation for being a liar, a foul-mouthed, disrespectful and immature person who needs to grow up and someone who does not take responsibility for her actions.

I'm not judging her as a person but commenting on her public image as it stands today and as it will continue to stand unless SHE changes it.  If and when she's Googled people will look at what she's done and then look for mitigating circumstances or some type of resolution to it.  She simply tells people by ignoring it or celebrating it that she doesn't care about how she might hurt other.  Her mother's comments supporting her behavior tell people she was raised to be this type of person. 

The rest of the world has the right to side-line her if they choose, especially when there are plenty of people with better characters out there or public personae that won't bring down embarrassment and ridicule to their organization.

Google the name Mary Jo.  On page one you'll get responses referring to Mary Jo Koepeckne and Mary Jo Buttafuco, both notorious for having been involved in a scandal many years ago.  These things never go away when they are thrust into the spotlight.  Her situation will never go away either.  But, if she did the mature and adult thing and owned up to what she did wrong and apologized for it the spotlight will be kinder to her.

I really could not care less about her, her situation or whether or not she apologizes.  She has no effect on me or my work or personal life.  I'm stating facts here.  People can make excuses for her and defend her until they are blue in the face.  That will not change what happens in the future when the name Emma Sullivan is Googled.  Even if it doesn't impact on her chances for a job, an education or a membership in a professional association people are always going to see her as that girl who said the governor blows.  They aren't going to remember who the governor was or if he was a good one.  They won't care. 

It's a negative aspect I wouldn't want haning around my neck.

The point I've been trying to make, whether anyone likes it or not, is that out in the world these things matter and people find out about them and discuss them.  You can say she did nothing wrong.  You have to accept the fact that anyone who thinks she did do something wrong has a right to that opinion and a right to use it in evaluating her.

Also, a lie is a lie and a person who lies is a liar.  She didn't fib and tell her friend her hair looked fine when it didn't so that her feelings wouldn't be hurt.  She posted on public media that she spoke to the governor face-to-face and told him what ever it was she Tweeted with the foul language she used.


Offline Zakharra

Re: Should teen tweeter apologize?
« Reply #57 on: November 30, 2011, 12:38:30 PM »
Quote
The work record might redeem her reputation.  Right now she has a reputation for being a liar, a foul-mouthed, disrespectful and immature person who needs to grow up and someone who does not take responsibility for her actions.

I'm not judging her as a person but commenting on her public image as it stands today and as it will continue to stand unless SHE changes it.  If and when she's Googled people will look at what she's done and then look for mitigating circumstances or some type of resolution to it.  She simply tells people by ignoring it or celebrating it that she doesn't care about how she might hurt other.  Her mother's comments supporting her behavior tell people she was raised to be this type of person. 

 How is what she said 'foul-mouthed'? I can see some of the disrespectful(maybe) and immature because practically everyone at that age is disrespectful and immature. It shouldn't be something to hold over her though. It's not like she stole something. She made an off-hand comment about someone she obviously doesn't like. If she'd called him a 'fucking jackass that sucks corporate cocks', 'I wish he'd be shot/killed' or something like that, you would have a basis to call her foul-mouthed or disrespectful.

As it is, you are overreacting because this,
Quote
I'm not judging her as a person
is wrong. You are judging her as a person by calling her foul-mouthed, disrespectful and immature. The last two being a normal part of being a teenager.

 
Quote
The point I've been trying to make, whether anyone likes it or not, is that out in the world these things matter and people find out about them and discuss them.  You can say she did nothing wrong.  You have to accept the fact that anyone who thinks she did do something wrong has a right to that opinion and a right to use it in evaluating her.

Also, a lie is a lie and a person who lies is a liar.  She didn't fib and tell her friend her hair looked fine when it didn't so that her feelings wouldn't be hurt.  She posted on public media that she spoke to the governor face-to-face and told him what ever it was she Tweeted with the foul language she used.

 I never said she did anything wrong. I just think that what she did is so minor, an apology isn't needed and if so, just to her friends, of that.  I am sure that none of them really feel she needs to apologize to them.

 Her lie is a tiny one. She gave her opinion of the Governor, why should she retract it? Why is that disrespectful? I've called politicians far far worse than what the girl did. Politicians have called other people things just as bad or worse. The fact you might find it disrespectful is irrelevant. It's free speech and ALL political free speech is protected. Even if it isn't what people don't want to hear it.

 Honestly you seem to be blowing this far out of proportion. Putting it above a criminal record for how damaging it is for her future.  It's something small and minor. not worth the wffort to be really concerned about

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Should teen tweeter apologize?
« Reply #58 on: November 30, 2011, 01:07:39 PM »
Calling for an apology still stands as wrong in my book - at least towards the Governor. Just because he (or his aides) did not like what was said does not mean she should say she is sorry. What she said is her opinion and nothing that should be apologized for. Would any of us want to have to apologize for our unpopular opinions? I can answer that easily. No, we would not want to be forced into saying sorry.

Now, here is what I find interesting. I have read through that article and nowhere does it say that she did not actually converse with the Governor - rude comments or no. Matter of fact, her exact tweet says “Just made mean comments at gov. Brownback and told him he sucked, in person (hash)heblowsalot.” That implies that she did not converse with him at all but rather blurted out her opinion, be it through yelling or what have you. None of us were there and the article does not clarify if she actually did say those things. For all we know, she could have actually said them. Which would mean she did not lie and that all of this talk about her lying is just people jumping to conclusions.

In other words, assumptions are being made off an article that does not say for definite one way or the other. Now, if there is something printed somewhere that says she most certainly did not say what she tweeted, then yes - she lied (at worst) or exaggerated (at best) to her friends.

Offline Beguile's Mistress

  • Time flies like an arrow ~ Fruit flies like a banana ~ Elliquiy's Fair-E Godmother
  • Dame
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Location: Faeleacanvald ~ The Steeler Nation ~ Home of Lord Stanley's Cup 2016 ~ She won't stay throwed! ~ 48\22-5\1\11-5\7
  • Gender: Female
  • Perpetual Notion Machine ~ 'What if...?'
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Should teen tweeter apologize?
« Reply #59 on: November 30, 2011, 01:47:36 PM »
Since I've been misquoted here by having my words deliberately taken out of context and having future readers mislead by having the quote source removed and since I've said all I have to say about this subject I'm going to abstain from further posting in this thread.




Offline SRT4NightRider

Re: Should teen tweeter apologize?
« Reply #60 on: December 03, 2011, 06:53:16 PM »
Getting in here a little late but no way in hell should she apologize. I am tired of all these lazy ass politicans who want to silence people because they tweet or facebook their opinion