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Author Topic: Recall Scott Walker  (Read 16480 times)

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Offline RubySlippers

Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #175 on: June 05, 2012, 10:19:59 PM »
Well so far it seems the people are voting for Walker he just needs a bit over 50% to keep the governorship, so looks to close to call yet.


Offline Gentle Heart

Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #176 on: June 06, 2012, 12:26:55 AM »
And Walker wins!

Sweet.

Now to skim the Huffington Post for the comments sections' river of tears.


Offline Trieste

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Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #177 on: June 06, 2012, 12:28:40 AM »
Wisconsin has spoken, I guess...? Are they teaching masochism up in those schools or something? :P

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #178 on: June 06, 2012, 12:35:55 AM »
It does send a message that he's made the voters made enough to try a recall.. and I can only say it's amazing what you can do with unlimited funding and the followers of Karl Rove's electioneering school.

Online Vekseid

Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #179 on: June 06, 2012, 02:47:18 AM »
And Walker wins!

Sweet.

Now to skim the Huffington Post for the comments sections' river of tears.

First post in five months is to troll PROC?

How cute.

Did you get your fifty cents?

Online ValerianTopic starter

Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #180 on: June 06, 2012, 08:00:07 AM »
That's okay, Veks.  It isn't all good news for the Republicans, so they're probably a little bitter -- they've lost control of the Wisconsin senate.  Democrat John Lehman has ousted Republican Van Wanggaard in Racine, so the Democrats now have a one-vote majority.  The Assembly is still Republican, but all 99 seats are up for election in November, so we'll see what happens then.

There was some heartening support from moderate Republicans -- a retired Republican legislator, for instance, voted Democrat because as she put it, having worked with both Barrett and Walker, she was in no doubt which of them was the better candidate.  But a large part of the problem according to the exit polls was those Democrats and independents who believed Walker's ads about how recalls are such a waste of taxpayer money, and voted for him to spite the people who had signed the recall petition.

So yeah, a little masochism at work there.

However, since Walker can't just dance through any legislation he wants anymore, I'm not nearly as unhappy as I might be.  If and when Walker is indicted, we'll have a problem with Kleefisch, but if she's allowed to run the state for any length of time, I think even the diehards will admit that sometimes, recalls are a good idea.


Interestingly, while for the most part Barrett won all the counties he was expected to win, he also won Douglas, Bayfield, and Ashland counties (by a lot) in the northwestern corner of the state, areas that are traditionally more Republican.  But in this case, they're also the three counties that would have had all their groundwater, natural resources, and tourism ruined by that open-pit mine Walker and Co. tried to push through.  Just more evidence of how Walker can make an enemy out of anyone with very little effort...

Offline MasterMischief

Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #181 on: June 06, 2012, 08:03:42 AM »
I shall weep now.  Others will join me when they realize what they have done.

Offline Gentle Heart

Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #182 on: June 06, 2012, 09:28:38 AM »
First post in five months is to troll PROC?

How cute.

Did you get your fifty cents?

Yeah, there's a reason I don't post. Because these forums are so horribly lopsided and biased that any attempt at discussion would involve a 10-on-1 beatdown I'm not interested in. So I'll just take my post-game schadenfreude where and when I can.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #183 on: June 06, 2012, 10:01:17 AM »
Yeah, there's a reason I don't post. Because these forums are so horribly lopsided and biased that any attempt at discussion would involve a 10-on-1 beatdown I'm not interested in. So I'll just take my post-game schadenfreude where and when I can.

Do you're okay with adding a dash of discontent and mayhem, rather than putting forward a reasoned argument supporting your views? Or you just like kicking folks when they are down?  Bravo sir, you have shown why I never lead off with my party affiliation.

Enjoy your trip to the HuffPost and other such sights.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #184 on: June 06, 2012, 10:03:50 AM »
It's people like this that make the moderates/conservatives who post on E unwilling to say so.

On-topic...so, is the whole thing over, or has it only started?

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #185 on: June 06, 2012, 10:12:40 AM »
It's people like this that make the moderates/conservatives who post on E unwilling to say so.

On-topic...so, is the whole thing over, or has it only started?

Well the recall is over, barring something like blatant voter fraud, but I think that the change over and loss of a majority will impact the progress of his more draconian policies.  And liker valerian pointed out earlier, there is till the John Doe investigation which I don't think will go away.

However, given his past actions and his win in the recall, I'm sure that a double high like Govenor Walker will try to give his rivals a metaforical kicking.

Offline MasterMischief

Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #186 on: June 06, 2012, 10:30:38 AM »
Yeah, there's a reason I don't post. Because these forums are so horribly lopsided and biased that any attempt at discussion would involve a 10-on-1 beatdown I'm not interested in. So I'll just take my post-game schadenfreude where and when I can.

So you will just go where the beatdown will be in your favor?

Online ValerianTopic starter

Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #187 on: June 06, 2012, 10:33:58 AM »
If Gentle Heart wants to have an actual, rational discussion on the subject, I'll gladly take him on in the Dialogues area, just the two of us.  I am confident in my ability to counter any pro-Walker argument with facts.  It's an offer I've made elsewhere, but sadly, as Callie and TheGlyphstone have mentioned, the far, far right Tea Partiers prefer to hurl insults whenever someone disagrees, so no one's ever taken me up on it.

It isn't really over, though, I'm sure.  The crucial senate election wasn't quite close enough to trigger an automatic recount, but no doubt the Republicans will ante up the money to pay for a recount, since I don't think they can get away with miraculously "finding" just enough votes to win again, as in Waukesha with the supreme court election last year.  (Besides, this was in Racine County, which is not so Republican.)

There's also the robocalls to investigate.  Early reports are that the number is one registered to the Republican party for use in phone banks, and Senator Lena Taylor (D-Milwaukee) is asking for a full investigation.  The Wisconsin GOP is denying everything, and really, I have to say it would have been awfully silly of them to use a number that's so easy to trace for something like that.  On the other hand, would anyone else have been able to use that number?  I have to admit I'm not sure of the exact procedures on robocalls.

And there are some questions about how quickly the numbers changed.  Exit polls had them in a dead heat, much too close to call, yet suddenly Walker gained a huge lead that he never quite lost.  That's all very vague as yet, but I'm sure we'll hear more about that soon enough.

Online Avis habilis

Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #188 on: June 06, 2012, 10:38:19 AM »
Diebold strikes again?

Online Vekseid

Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #189 on: June 06, 2012, 10:53:03 AM »
So you will just go where the beatdown will be in your favor?

Nah, he's just trying to stir up angst.

Some of them actually get paid to do this. He's not using a proxy, however, so I'll let him stay for as long as people are amused.

It's people like this that make the moderates/conservatives who post on E unwilling to say so.

On-topic...so, is the whole thing over, or has it only started?

My guess would be the latter. This is quite reminiscent of the origins of the Progressive Era. This will be doubly true if Walker gets charged and trebly if convicted for corruption. It'd be egg on face for nearly everyone in Wisconsin who voted for him. It's about stealing money from a veteran's org, for crying out loud. That's a winner, alright.

Ultimately, it was a joint movement by both conservatives and liberals of the day - but it marked the end of the gilded age and is called progressive for a reason. It was triggered by a general popular consensus that we were too tolerant of corruption, and various movements to break corrupt power bases through various means were enacted. One major item that marked it that is currently lacking is the degree if voter information. However, it's quite likely that the Internet is going to mean that voters are going to be far, far more informed than they were during the original era.

People aren't quite struggling enough yet to feel the need to seriously act, yet, but OWS is proof enough that the next bailout and recession (and there will be an attempt at the former at least, as well as the latter) will only create an even bigger response. I don't think we'll see more than two more Wall Street bailout attempts, however.


Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #190 on: June 06, 2012, 10:59:41 AM »
I don't think that any elected official in the country would trust Diebold, and didn't they change their name after the last fiasco? Or did they sell that branch off to some foreign company (which opens up another massive can of beans)


My guess would be the latter. This is quite reminiscent of the origins of the Progressive Era. This will be doubly true if Walker gets charged and trebly if convicted for corruption. It'd be egg on face for nearly everyone in Wisconsin who voted for him. It's about stealing money from a veteran's org, for crying out loud. That's a winner, alright.

Ultimately, it was a joint movement by both conservatives and liberals of the day - but it marked the end of the gilded age and is called progressive for a reason. It was triggered by a general popular consensus that we were too tolerant of corruption, and various movements to break corrupt power bases through various means were enacted. One major item that marked it that is currently lacking is the degree if voter information. However, it's quite likely that the Internet is going to mean that voters are going to be far, far more informed than they were during the original era.

People aren't quite struggling enough yet to feel the need to seriously act, yet, but OWS is proof enough that the next bailout and recession (and there will be an attempt at the former at least, as well as the latter) will only create an even bigger response. I don't think we'll see more than two more Wall Street bailout attempts, however.

You know.. I'd like a roll back to 'traditonal political actions' in that..

1. I want politicians to be MORE than partisan hacks voting the party line.
2. I would like the people we elect to be people who represent US, not the corporations who kicked in the most money.
3. There are a few words/phrases I'd love the elected offical to understand. 'Non-partisan', 'compromise', 'cooperation', 'politeness', 'good sportsmanship', 'diplomatic', 'Statesmen', 'Leadership', 'Personal accountability'.

But then my inner cynic mugs my inner daydreamer and I go get a another cup of coffee while I wrack my brain to come up with a way to get the double high authoritarians out of the driver's seat of my party.

Online ValerianTopic starter

Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #191 on: June 06, 2012, 11:13:29 AM »
Diebold strikes again?
The Onion Spoof on Diebold & Election Fraud
Why, yes.

In all seriousness, as of last December, there are 46 districts in Wisconsin that have the electronic voting machines -- though mine isn't one of them, thankfully.  (Diebold has been bought out by Canadian firm Dominion Voting, which supplied these machines.)  There's an ongoing investigation into the matter, as John Washburn, an election integrity investigator and professional software tester, has been trying and trying to get permission to analyze the data from one of last year's recall elections under the open records law, and they won't turn anything over.  It's reached the state DOJ as of last month.  The company will probably end up having to admit that they don't have any records and pay a $3,000 fine, which they won't even notice.  They've been getting districts to use their machines by giving them away, two for one, in exchange for the old machines, which according to Washburn is also against the law.

http://wcmcoop.com/members/meet-command-central-the-people-in-charge-of-wisconsin-voting-machines/

You can always ask to vote on a paper ballot, by the way, even in places that have these machines.

Online Avis habilis

Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #192 on: June 06, 2012, 11:27:17 AM »
The company will probably end up having to admit that they don't have any records and pay a $3,000 fine, which they won't even notice.

As much as that? Wow, that must be nearly the price of one machine. That's gotta sting.

Online ValerianTopic starter

Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #193 on: June 06, 2012, 11:31:28 AM »
Maybe they're hurting for money, though.  They tried to charge Washburn $450 for these supposedly free, available-to-anyone-who-asks records at one point.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #194 on: June 06, 2012, 03:17:14 PM »
I'm curious about the outcome, considering most of what I have seen is the Walker campaign outspent his rival by something on the order of 7:1

Online ValerianTopic starter

Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #195 on: June 06, 2012, 03:33:00 PM »
Yes, 7 to 1 is about the minimum I've seen; some sources put it higher.  According to this, Walker raised $30.5 million to Barrett's $3.9.  Of course, Barrett had a lot less time to raise money, for one thing; Walker started hitting up his billionaire backers as soon as the recall was announced, months before Barrett was even a candidate.

Under Wisconsin law, candidates for governor normally can't take donations of more than $10,000 from a single source, but in this case only Barrett had to stick to that rule.  As a governor being recalled, Walker was exempt from the limit so his backers could give him however much they wanted.

Considering the difference in spending, though, you're right that it's probably significant that Walker didn't get more of a landslide.

Offline Serephino

Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #196 on: June 06, 2012, 05:41:16 PM »
I saw on the news last night that he won, and began to wonder what the voters were smoking....  Also, you think they'd share?  After everything I've read it boggles my mind that anyone would vote for him, other than the extreme conservative people anyway.  Something in my gut tells me something isn't right here.   

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #197 on: June 06, 2012, 05:56:21 PM »
I saw on the news last night that he won, and began to wonder what the voters were smoking....  Also, you think they'd share?  After everything I've read it boggles my mind that anyone would vote for him, other than the extreme conservative people anyway.  Something in my gut tells me something isn't right here.   


Fear and misinformation are awesome tools. You got something known.. .and Walker's rhetoric does make it seem like he's the last line of defense against certain elements. When you have enough cash to keep piping the same message in it's hard to not believe it.

And the GOP did an AMAZING job of organizing and setting up shop. The President isn't going to get the state by 14 points again, they are already there, entrenched and set up with lists of sympathetic voters.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #198 on: June 06, 2012, 06:37:51 PM »
I have to make a point made by the TP Republicans but: what was the basis for the justification of the recall there was no proof of gross crimes or misuse of power from what I can tell, he simply proposed unpopular legislation to some and put his people into offices and favored policies some criticized. The time to fight that is in a regular election. I think getting the recall was sour grapes by a clearly large voting MINORITY in the state.

Can you give me one case of criminal charges being even considered against the governor in this re-election?


Offline Trieste

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Re: Recall Scott Walker
« Reply #199 on: June 06, 2012, 06:57:58 PM »
Can you give me one case of criminal charges being even considered against the governor in this re-election?

If you go back and read the thread, it's discussed at length.