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Author Topic: Do You Believe?  (Read 2287 times)

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Offline lokiTopic starter

Do You Believe?
« on: October 02, 2011, 04:00:43 PM »
'Tis the season where whispers of ghosts stories start to spin. Where the television shows about paranormal grow in popularity. Where people start to search out places and attractions that will give them the best ghostly scare. The time of year when some seek out or try their hands with people that , may or may not, give them the answers to things that only the dead could answer.

So I pose these questions to you. Do you believe in ghost? If not then why? Do you have any experiences or stories about, the things that go bump in the night? Do you believe that people can talk to and see the dead or do you think it's all a hoax? Do you think that futures can be told? That things like vampires, werewolves and ghostly specters might walk around in our shared world? I guess what I am really asking is ... do you believe?

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: Do You Believe?
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2011, 07:06:58 PM »
Short answer, yes.

I've had enough odd experiences that I keep an open mind about things. Not odd experiences with what might be ghosts .. just other stuff.

Offline Saerrael

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Re: Do You Believe?
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2011, 08:53:28 PM »
Hm, no, I don't believe. I've seen and experienced too much to still believe. I think I fall under those who know.

Offline Craz

Re: Do You Believe?
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2011, 10:56:53 PM »
No clue. I'm willing to at least listen to experience, and listen to people who are relating their experience, but I got raised in a very "logical" household. So, my summation? There's not enough evidence to prove it, but there's too many stories to discount it.

Offline Shjade

Re: Do You Believe?
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2011, 11:52:52 PM »
No. I've seen too much of hysteria, superstition and general stupidity in people to see ghost stories as anything but exaggerations of when people got a serious case of the creeps.

In a similar vein, I sincerely doubt we're being regularly visited by anal-probing aliens, either.

Offline WhiteTigerForever

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Re: Do You Believe?
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2011, 12:13:03 AM »
Basically... NO.. lol.. and that is coming from a person with a strong witch/pagan background for many years... lol..  You have to look at things in an open minded but critical fashion.  All we need to know can and is found in nature, and in the higher functionings of abstract thought that come about from our cerebral cortex.  Belief is simply that,  a belief.. if one had doubts or questions about something, go full speed and learn and study until you feel you have found your own personal truth.  I do suggest that there are many things that go on that defy what we would consider it "normal" but that doesn't give the mind to make an inconsistent, illogical jump into the members of society that thrive on the delusions of the "paranormal", vs. perfectly normal, just not understood and explained yet.

What is a ghost?  Seriously.. when you watch an Alzheimer's patient deteriorate completely in front of you, you realize that all we thing we are is but an illusion.  A energy that is freed from current manifest human form.. yes..as in the first law of thermodynamics, energy can neither be created nor destroyed within a given system.  All energy simply transforms from one state of existence to another.  I do suggest there are time echoes and ripples between the various dimensions, etc.. and there are a few cases where living beings carry on, past their lives, because of attachment or a thought that needs to be passed on.. have seen them and delivered the messages, but essentially they are not GHOSTS.

A ghost has no brain, no mind, no body, no thoughts, no eyes, no ears, no mouth...etc..without all of those amalgamations, there is no "I", or "you" to carry on.. just energy.. :D

any way, those are my thoughts on the matter...

aaaaaaannnnndddddd Happy Samhain,




...pronounced sow-en and called Halloween today, is the ending of the Celtic year. The Celtic new year actually begins at sunset on October 31. This ritual is known as Ancestor Night or Feast of the Dead. Because the veil between the worlds is thinnest on this night, it was and is considered an excellent time for divinations. Feasts are made in remembrance of dead ancestors and as an affirmation of continuing life. A time for settling problems, throwing out old ideas and influences. This is either celebrated October 31, or the first Full Moon in Scorpio.

It is considered the day and the night when the veil between the wolds seen and unseen are the thinnest.


Origins of the Hallow'een Festival

The ancient Celtic (Irish/Scottish/Welsh) festival called Samhain is considered by most historians and scholars to be the predecessor of what is now Hallow'een. Samhain was the New Year's day of the pagan Celts. It was also the Day of the Dead, a time when it was believed that the souls of those who had died during the year were allowed access into the "land of the dead". Many traditional beliefs and customs associated with Samhain continue to be practiced today on the 31st of October. Most notable of these customs are the practice of leaving offerings of food and drink (now candy) to masked and costumed revelers, and the lighting of bonfires. Elements of this festival were incorporated into the Christian festival of All Hallow's Eve, or Hallow-Even, the night preceding All Saint's (Hallows') Day.

It is the glossing of the name Hallow- Even that has given us the name of Hallow'een. Until recent times in some parts of Europe, it was believed that on this night the dead walked amongst them, and that witches and warlocks flew in their midst. In  preparation for this, bonfires were built to ward off these malevolent spirits.

By the 19th century, witches' pranks were replaced by children's tricks. The spirits of Samhain, once believed to be wild and powerful were now recognized as being evil. Devout Christians began rejecting this festival. They had discovered that the so-called gods, godesses, and other spiritual beings of the pagan religions, were diabolicaldeceptions. The spiritual forces that people experienced during this festival were indeed real, but they were manifestations of the devil who misled people toward the worship of false idols. Thus, they rejected the customs associated with Hallow'een, including  all representations of ghosts, vampires, and human skeletons - symbols of the dead - and of the devil and other malevolent and evil  creatures. It must also be noted that, to this day, many Satan-worshippers consider the evening of October 31st to be their  most sacred. And many devout Christians today continue to distance  themselves from this pagan festival.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 06:28:35 AM by WhiteTigerForever »

Offline Brandon

Re: Do You Believe?
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2011, 12:30:51 AM »
I do believe that there are things in this world that remain unexplained except for the names we give them in folklore, mythology, and legends. Ghosts in particular is something I whole heartedly believe in. Ive traveled the world and been to many places that had a history of hauntings. Most of them were just superstition as far as I could tell but there were those rare few places where things happened that I could not and still cant explain to this day.

Im a little more critical about other supernatural phenomena. I dont think Vampires or werewolves exist, or ever existed outside of real world monsters being given a make over by clever writers. I believe in psychics but due to all the frauds out there I consider anyone that calls themselves a psychic is likely a fraud. Maybe thats unrealistic but its how I look at it right now

Offline Hemingway

Re: Do You Believe?
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2011, 05:53:21 AM »
I don't. I think the burden of proof lies on those who do believe, and so far everything I've seen and heard from other people can be explained in perfectly rational and mundane ways.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I wish I could be an awesome World of Darkness-style vampire, but I think my chances of bloodsucking immortality are slim. I do enjoy a good horror story, though. I guess that's a bit odd. Or maybe it's to be expected.

Offline Kazuume

Re: Do You Believe?
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2011, 10:10:03 AM »
I believe to a point but have had an experience to this day no one can explain.

We had an elderly woman living with us, her favorite past time was watching TV something her and her daughter were always at odds about.  She was out one day looking for work when she had a heart attack behind the wheel of her car. Just as we got the news a huge snow storm hit and I was left at home alone in the house while my mother and the daughter went to the hospital.  Her bed room happened to be situated just down the bottom of the basement stairs off to the left. 

The storm knocked out our power so I went around and shut things off and unplugged them so nothing would get shocked when the power came back on. As I passed the basement stairs I could see a gray glow coming from her room.  Talk about getting a cold feeling!  I forced myself down the stairs keeping my back to the wall opposite her room and when I finally built up the nerve I looked into her room.  Her TV was on, but it was all static! I just froze there and couldn't move for I don't know how long. Eventually I made it back up the stairs at a run freaking out.  The phone rang. The woman had passed away.

Now you tell me she hadn't come home to watch some TV! hahaha

Offline Avis habilis

Re: Do You Believe?
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2011, 10:45:49 AM »
I'm satisfied that we have had visits from one of our cats who passed in 2000. I don't know whether I'd call him a ghost though; he was such a good little guy - not just well behaved, but benevolent & compassionate - that he seems more like a bodhisattva.

People who go around claiming to speak to the dead, however, I'm pretty sure are almost all a bunch of exploitive vultures feeding on the grief of the credulous.

Offline WhiteTigerForever

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Re: Do You Believe?
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2011, 05:43:00 PM »
I'm satisfied that we have had visits from one of our cats who passed in 2000. I don't know whether I'd call him a ghost though; he was such a good little guy - not just well behaved, but benevolent & compassionate - that he seems more like a bodhisattva.

People who go around claiming to speak to the dead, however, I'm pretty sure are almost all a bunch of exploitive vultures feeding on the grief of the credulous.

lol.. that was cute Avis.. I did have a cat named Siddartha..XD and it's such a cute thought, though the Boshisttava state only occurs in what we would call a living being..XD..(elaborated upon in a later post)  I can so imagine that little joy of innocence and curiosity meandering around your home. ohhhh I hope he was a fat and cuddly cat!   ;D
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 08:44:03 AM by WhiteTigerForever »

Offline alxnjsh

Re: Do You Believe?
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2011, 06:28:31 PM »
Yes, I believe. I guess perhaps I also have faith that we can all be ghosts. I don't want to just be worm food...I mean, come on, I'd be an awesome poltergeist.

*eyes Saerra ghostily*

Offline Belle33

Re: Do You Believe?
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2011, 06:41:33 PM »
I don't believe in ghosts, but I do believe there's more to people than flesh and bone - and I believe the essence of a soul can linger beyond the body's expiration.  I imagine it's just a hint of a moment - and instant;  not a long, drawn out, haunting presence between multiple planes of existence. 

But - the stories are fun :)


Offline Samael

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Re: Do You Believe?
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2011, 08:02:08 PM »
"Energy can neither be created nor be destroyed"

It means I am sure there are phenomenons that may not be explainable just yet, but I think everything has a scientific reason for existing.

I don't think there's anything "Supernatural" about, even though it would make the world a more interesting place, but then, at a time when we haven't even explored our oceans completely yet, and space is waiting for us, do we really need something like Ghosts?

Offline Jude

Re: Do You Believe?
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2011, 08:32:09 PM »
Well, the biggest problem with these discussions -- especially when you get into the realm of invoking science -- is that most people don't understand what energy is in a scientific sense.  All things are not made up of energy, they're made up of matter.  Energy-mass equivalence only tells you how much energy the mass in question can release when it is metabolized, it does not claim that they are literally the same thing.  Energy isn't essence.  It isn't electricity.  It isn't even light (even if it can easily be converted into such by photovoltaic cells).  Energy is just a measure of stored or potential work.  It is a measure of how much force whatever being discussed can exert over a certain distance.  Conservation of energy and the laws of thermodynamics are about the net energy of a system, not the immortality of the human spirit.

Personally, I do not believe in ghosts, spirits, souls, or an afterlife.  I hope they're real, I wish they were (I want to live forever), but the best evidence at our disposal coupled with critical thinking does an excellent job of debunking supernatural theories.

Offline WhiteTigerForever

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Re: Do You Believe?
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2011, 08:38:34 PM »
"Energy can neither be created nor be destroyed"

It means I am sure there are phenomenons that may not be explainable just yet, but I think everything has a scientific reason for existing.

I don't think there's anything "Supernatural" about, even though it would make the world a more interesting place, but then, at a time when we haven't even explored our oceans completely yet, and space is waiting for us, do we really need something like Ghosts?

wait.. you quoted my post.. lmao.. and this is a fun topic indeed!!! XD


Well, the biggest problem with these discussions -- especially when you get into the realm of invoking science -- is that most people don't understand what energy is in a scientific sense.  All things are not made up of energy, they're made up of matter.  Energy-mass equivalence only tells you how much energy the mass in question can release when it is metabolized, it does not claim that they are literally the same thing.  Energy isn't essence.  It isn't electricity.  It isn't even light (even if it can easily be converted into such by photovoltaic cells).  Energy is just a measure of stored or potential work.  It is a measure of how much force whatever being discussed can exert over a certain distance.  Conservation of energy and the laws of thermodynamics are about the net energy of a system, not the immortality of the human spirit.

Personally, I do not believe in ghosts, spirits, souls, or an afterlife.  I hope they're real, I wish they were (I want to live forever), but the best evidence at our disposal coupled with critical thinking does an excellent job of debunking supernatural theories.

Nicely and well said!!! :D
« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 08:43:52 PM by WhiteTigerForever »

Offline Silverfyre

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Re: Do You Believe?
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2011, 10:11:14 PM »
lol.. that was cute Avis.. I did have a cat named Siddartha..XD and it's such a cute thought, thought the Boshisttava state only occurs in what we would call a living being..XD..  I can so imagine that little joy of innocence and curiosity meandering around your home. ohhhh I hope he was a fat and cuddly cat!   ;D

Last time I checked, cats are living beings.  I believe Avis's reference was for when the cat was alive, not dead. 

Offline Samael

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Re: Do You Believe?
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2011, 11:28:12 PM »
wait.. you quoted my post.. lmao.. and this is a fun topic indeed!!! XD



Haha, damn, I should have read all responses before responding myself.
You said it so much more eloquently and beautifully.

Kudos.

Offline WhiteTigerForever

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Re: Do You Believe?
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2011, 08:40:57 AM »
Haha, damn, I should have read all responses before responding myself.
You said it so much more eloquently and beautifully.

Kudos.

giggles and thanks.. lol..

and

Last time I checked, cats are living beings.  I believe Avis's reference was for when the cat was alive, not dead.

I misread and though he was referring to a cat that had passed on.. but anyway, lol, But to clarify and be more specific... lol.. it's a wonderful and cute thought and so loving but Edit: Boshisttava state only occurs in what we would call a living being..XD..  not just living beings but sentient Buddhists that have evolved spiritually to achieving Nirvana, thus no more incarnations, but choose instead to incarnate life after life to continue to be a selfless and self sacrificing presence in the world of humanity.... over and over... The Dahli Llama is such a being, for example...

yet in the end, it is all about having a fun thread and sharing our thoughts and experiences.. right?  ;D
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 08:46:25 AM by WhiteTigerForever »

Offline Silverfyre

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Re: Do You Believe?
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2011, 12:59:53 PM »
Interesting.  I do however challenge your idea that only "living beings" or sentient beings can be labeled as Bodhisattva.

Actually, are you familiar of the story of the "King of the Deer"? 

http://www.sacred-texts.com/journals/ia/sfd.htm

It is one of the most famous tales recounted about the Buddha's previous incarnations.  He was a deer in this particular tale.  Fascinating tale and there have been Buddhist mythology and stories about "selfless' acts and incarnations of such animals.  I recommend reading them over if you are interested in the Buddhist religion, myths and mindset as they give a lot of insight into their particular beliefs.  They are rather beautiful stories as well. :)

« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 01:01:12 PM by Silverfyre »

Offline Avis habilis

Re: Do You Believe?
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2011, 01:06:16 PM »
No, the poor little guy died many years ago. I just meant he seemed like the kind who would hang to help others through their own transition at death instead of getting off the wheel of samsara himself.

Offline WhiteTigerForever

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Re: Do You Believe?
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2011, 01:53:39 PM »
Interesting.  I do however challenge your idea that only "living beings" or sentient beings can be labeled as Bodhisattva.

Actually, are you familiar of the story of the "King of the Deer"? 

http://www.sacred-texts.com/journals/ia/sfd.htm

It is one of the most famous tales recounted about the Buddha's previous incarnations.  He was a deer in this particular tale.  Fascinating tale and there have been Buddhist mythology and stories about "selfless' acts and incarnations of such animals.  I recommend reading them over if you are interested in the Buddhist religion, myths and mindset as they give a lot of insight into their particular beliefs.  They are rather beautiful stories as well. :)


The term Buddha is a title.. not the name of a person... the individual most well know and attributed to the founding of the modern philosophical approach towards life was Siddartha Gautama, son of the King that now know to be to the North in Nepal.  Prior to and after then, others have also attained the enlightened state, i.e. Nirvana.. but the story you are referring to is one of his past lives... he had not yet achieved Nirvana yet.. once he did, he is well known to have become award of all his previous incarnations.  I would love to invite you and your lovely family to come and participate with me and my family when going to the teaching and meditations sessions at the Theravadic temple near me... but we all must make our own journey and see with our own eyes and discover with our own illusion of self and mind what feel best for you and your comfort level.  I was a witch for many years but have been an active Taoist/Buddhist for several years now, as that philosophical approach towards life fits me the best... Why does the illusioned ego feel the need to "challenge", per say...  If you would like we can have a wonderful and sharing discussion in the E's U. , but this is a fun thread.. right?  Not for challenging or debating... people are people.. and each has their own path to follow to the mountain and their own vehicle they use... In the end, even the Buddha teaches that you use a raft or a boat to cross a river, but when done with it, do you continue to carry the boat with you when you have no further need of it all the way up to the mountain top?  Such would be foolishness.. I don't wish to have a "debate" with nothing to gain that may help others in a thread not designed for such, but to have fun celebrating the Samhain Holliday. 



No, the poor little guy died many years ago. I just meant he seemed like the kind who would hang to help others through their own transition at death instead of getting off the wheel of samsara himself.

He sounded wonderful indeed.. and I am sure he will come back to you or you to him (many variations happen..XD), and escaping the wheel is the hardest and greatest task of all and as I've seriously looked at my self, I know I will not escape it in this life time, but hope in lives to come I may...

I would so love to see a pic of him... and have had similar bonds with animals too.. great ones that they were so much more that the labels of "animal" to be put on them unless we allow the label of "animal" to be applied to us also... but again.. we change form and grow from life form to life form in momentum based on Karma as we pass though it.. it is wonderful to chat with someone also familiar with such thoughts, philosophies and teachings Avis... ;D

Again... on topic... Do we believe in  Ghosts?  XD.. and Happy Samhain!  XD ;D

Edit:  Once I was a flower that bloomed for only one season in the Spring... oh that I wish I could return to that once more...

« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 02:02:42 PM by WhiteTigerForever »

Offline Silverfyre

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Re: Do You Believe?
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2011, 02:05:57 PM »
Well, it was not meant as a "challenge" per say, merely a different point of view.  I'm sorry you see it that way.  Take it however you wish.  I am familiar with Buddhism and know all of which you have stated so I am informed of how it is a title and not an actual deity or name of a person.  There are many "Buddhas", depending on the tradition of Buddhism you are referring to. 

I was more or less using the term of Bodhisattva as someone who is aspiring for enlightenment and Nirvana, as was Siddartha Gautama in his incarnation as the "King of the Deer".  That was what my counter point was as far as your original statement of "living beings"/sentient beings not being animals.

But yes, this thread has gone off topic enough me thinks.  To answer the original question, yes.  I do believe because I have experienced some rather unexplainable events that I think are paranormal in nature, i.e: I can't rationally explain them.  Energy and all that jazz.

« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 02:07:03 PM by Silverfyre »

Offline Oniya

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Re: Do You Believe?
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2011, 02:07:23 PM »
I do.  I also believe in elves, fairies, dragons, angels, and vampires.

Offline WhiteTigerForever

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Re: Do You Believe?
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2011, 02:10:46 PM »
I do.  I also believe in elves, fairies, dragons, angels, and vampires.

*is gonna hit the awesomeness of Oniya for a game one of these days*  lmao ha ha ha ha

(and I apologize if your expression of the word challenge was meant in a warm sharing light and through the net, words etc can be misinterpreted.. as I must have.. XD...)

Oniya... you must be a ghost for me, considering the topic...XD!!! 

Edit.. Holy smokes Bat man.. Oniya is a Siren now.. congrats Oniyaaaa!!! 
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 02:14:19 PM by WhiteTigerForever »