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Author Topic: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.  (Read 4068 times)

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Offline Xanatos

Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2011, 01:33:36 AM »
Those fans are heretics... And that is putting it kindly.

Offline Will

Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2011, 01:43:47 AM »
As far as I can tell, George Lucas created something grand, then proceeded to carefully ram it into the ground.

The problem is that he didn't actually make it.  Not alone, at least.  He had tons of creative input for the original trilogy, and people to challenge him on things.  More and more, I come to believe that everything that I loved about Star Wars actually came from someone else, and that Lucas argued against it every step of the way.

Offline Sabby

Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2011, 01:45:54 AM »
Never argue with a man who looks like he built his own log cabin in the winter while wrestling bears. Your going to lose.

Offline Xanatos

Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2011, 02:00:08 AM »
Well if its true, which I don't doubt, Lucas actually wrote the idea out before making the movie. Thus he actually did come up with the grand ideas himself. Those "others" merely helped bring his ideas to the visual screen. Its not beyond plausibility that he started out great but just degenerated into the crap he gives now. Its not at all impossible for one person to think up amazing things all by oneself. Any author worth his or her weight in salt, has to do it by necessity.

As much as I dislike Lucas, I think its unfair to bash him to a point. Everyone knows his original movies are great. I do believe everyone accepts, as well, that he tried his damndest, and succeeded, in keeping the original three as close to his vision as he could for the technology constraints of the time.

I think what is happening is that Lucas is being like any author - seeing things he doesn't like or thinks he can improve upon. The difference is he has the power to do so. Does that make it right? Not reallt. Ret-conning is not something done lightly like he seems to be doing. Especially since he seems to be pissing people off while doing it, heh.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 02:01:26 AM by Xanatos »

Offline Oniya

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Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2011, 02:24:29 AM »
I love not being a Star Wars fan ^^ I know I'm parroting Yahtzee here, but only because he worded it so much better then I could. Star Wars has been steadily falling apart after the second movie and the level of denial from hardcore fans is just fun to watch.

And people who claim Jar Jar is racist have their racism filter all wonky. Yes, he looks, acts and talks like an illiterate black slave, but they kind of missed the asians in the Trade Federation and the flying Jew ripping Anakins mum off...

The really hardcore fans are too busy pounding their heads against their desks to deny that Lucas is botching it...

And actually, I never saw Jar Jar as racist - just annoying as all get-out.  Stupid, clumsy, shrill, barely comprehensible, not even cute and fluffy - does that creature have any redeeming qualities?

Offline Sabby

Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2011, 02:45:01 AM »
Yeah. He's a general and a senator.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2011, 02:47:38 AM »
I thought, aside from adding things like the dewbacks and mechs, that the redoes of the first trilogy were pretty much a waste of time. (Greebo shooting first still causes my blood pressure to spike. HAN SHOT FIRST.. )

That being said, I found a cure for it.. don't buy the new stuff. :D

Of course I thought the monologues in Blade Runner were cool.. so what do I know?

Offline Brandon

Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2011, 07:34:56 AM »
For what its worth I would still like to see movies about the new Jedi order (after return of the Jedi) but thats probably a pipe dream at best. It seems like the only creative direction he could take the setting.

Offline Sabby

Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2011, 07:42:40 AM »
It's been done.

http://www.cracked.com/article/167_5-reasons-star-wars-sequels-would-be-worse-than-prequels/

Quote from: Star Wars Legacy
Luke Skywalker, again demonstrating his complete and total dementia, forgets every single detail about his father's life and builds a new Jedi Order that encourages emotional ties and marriages. Han Solo and Princess Leia have three kids, one of whom turns into a Sith, and Luke has a son with some redhead.

Offline Brandon

Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2011, 07:54:30 AM »
I said movies, not comics, books and other stuff and lets be honest cracked is a lot like wikipedia. It is not a reputable source of information

Edit: One other point, the one video game for the new jedi order that I played was actually pretty good IMO
« Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 07:55:46 AM by Brandon »

Offline Sabby

Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2011, 08:37:29 AM »
I said movies, not comics, books and other stuff and lets be honest cracked is a lot like wikipedia. It is not a reputable source of information

Edit: One other point, the one video game for the new jedi order that I played was actually pretty good IMO

If by 'not reputable' you mean unprofession and hilariously honest, then amen. I'll believe Cracked over Wikipedia any day. It has roughly the same level of quality with none of the bullshit.

Offline Slaven

Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2011, 09:13:38 AM »
It's been done.

http://www.cracked.com/article/167_5-reasons-star-wars-sequels-would-be-worse-than-prequels/

..So,I now can't stop laughing. I'm going to go crawl away and hide now until I stop snickering.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2011, 10:10:06 AM »
I honestly don't care. Lucas is just your classic perfectionist. In his mind his work is somehow lacking and he will change it to something he thinks is more suitable. Fans really shouldn't be up in arms about it, they really shouldn't.

Offline Xanatos

Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2011, 11:51:12 AM »
Fans have a right to be up in arms. If anyone releases their work out to the public for their enjoyment and criticism, what on Earth do you think the fans are going to do? They will praise or rail against it. There will be those who find it okay, and then there will be those who are zealously hardcore. Its basically the whole reason anyone releases work to the public. They want fan reaction. Any sane author might even make alterations to further iterations of their novels based off fan reactions. Not all, but I've heard of a fair amount that do.

I am hardcore, I but I am still not zealous. I don't go to the lengths that many fans do. I'm still sane and willing to debate (though I freely admit, it won't be an easy debate as I have my SW biases).


And Oniya is right, Cracked is not worth listening too. Obviously the people have no clue what caused Anakin to fall and thus put out that clueless statement about the Jedi Order books. Jacen's fall to the dark side was a pathetic attempt by an author to create drama. It made no sense at all, especially since he had had a brush or fall to the Dark side previously and had been rescued from it. He had already been redeemed. Why would he suddenly fall so easily now?

Getting back to, Anakin; he fell not because of emotions, but because the Jedi Order (chiefly Yoda) failed to recognize how dangerous controlling emotions was; and Yoda told him to accept the loss of his wife and children... (big fat red flashing warning lights anyone?) The Old Order assumed emotions (a normal Human and alien aspect) was dangerous, when in reality emotions are helpful more often than not. Controlling emotions only leads to desperate angry outbursts.

Then you add into the mix Palpatine skillfully (although poorly written in the movie) manipulating those emotions to his advantage. Anakin had lost faith in the Order and turned to someone he thought actually understood him. Its not beyond the realm of belief. I certainly would have told the Order to go screw themselves if they told me to leave my wife and unborn children to oblivion. What sane husband wouldn't try and save his wife and children?

Luke's new Order is actually a vast improvement over the Old Order. If you take the time to read about it, Luke made some smart changes. I won't get into details, as it will get lengthy. I point to Wookiepedia.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2011, 11:56:59 AM »
To be fair, that was Brandon, not me.  I still wouldn't use Cracked as a 'reference', seeing as I remember the dead-tree versions of it and Mad magazine (which was vastly superior - Viva Aragones!).

Offline NotoriusBEN

Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2011, 12:25:42 PM »
there are some interesting fact fillings from cracked though..

Like the leinholder of the deathstar(s) for one...

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2011, 03:37:41 PM »
Fans have a right to be up in arms. If anyone releases their work out to the public for their enjoyment and criticism, what on Earth do you think the fans are going to do? They will praise or rail against it. There will be those who find it okay, and then there will be those who are zealously hardcore. Its basically the whole reason anyone releases work to the public. They want fan reactiheon. Any sane author might even make alterations to further iterations of their novels based off fan reactions. Not all, but I've heard of a fair amount that do.

I am hardcore, I but I am still not zealous. I don't go to the lengths that many fans do. I'm still sane and willing to debate (though I freely admit, it won't be an easy debate as I have my SW biases).
Well, yes and no. Do fans have any rights to the work? Eh, no. As much as I love a lot of stuff out there, It's not going to work. This is why Bioware gets as much flak as it does. Fan input is typically like design-by-committee. What one group of fans want is not what they all want. The author thing goes both ways. Sure, he might change something based on fan input (not likely at all), however, a creator has the right to change his work without fan consent. That's just kind of how it works. It's actually quite common for an author to change things based on what he thinks needs changing. That's why books go through editions (more so in the past than now). This is just Lucas popping out edition number 3 (made up number) of Star Wars. Work hard, find a first edition.

Sadly childhoods aren't usually sufficient considerations for courts . Just remember it the way you want too.

Offline meikle

Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2011, 03:54:32 PM »
Just because fans can't sue Lucas doesn't mean we aren't allowed to comment that he is making his works of art worse.

If you create a work of art and show it to people, people get to criticize it.  That is the nature of publication.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #43 on: September 04, 2011, 04:06:10 PM »
Just because fans can't sue Lucas doesn't mean we aren't allowed to comment that he is making his works of art worse.

If you create a work of art and show it to people, people get to criticize it.  That is the nature of publication.
I didn't say they couldn't not really, but he doesn't have to listen to them.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #44 on: September 04, 2011, 04:10:41 PM »
The only way for the fans to get him to 'listen' to them is by making it unprofitable for him to do it.  I.E., if you don't like the remakes, don't throw money at them in any way.

Offline Missy

Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #45 on: September 04, 2011, 04:18:05 PM »
Agreed with Oniya. Demand the classic originals!!!

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2011, 04:23:31 PM »
The only way for the fans to get him to 'listen' to them is by making it unprofitable for him to do it.  I.E., if you don't like the remakes, don't throw money at them in any way.
I'm pretty sure that would be difficult. That's why I went with the suing route at least it was honestly impossible. I think Lucas could make tons in world-wide sales not just American. :\


Offline Slaven

Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #47 on: September 04, 2011, 04:24:27 PM »
Well, yes and no. Do fans have any rights to the work? Eh, no. As much as I love a lot of stuff out there, It's not going to work. This is why Bioware gets as much flak as it does. Fan input is typically like design-by-committee. What one group of fans want is not what they all want. The author thing goes both ways. Sure, he might change something based on fan input (not likely at all), however, a creator has the right to change his work without fan consent. That's just kind of how it works. It's actually quite common for an author to change things based on what he thinks needs changing. That's why books go through editions (more so in the past than now). This is just Lucas popping out edition number 3 (made up number) of Star Wars. Work hard, find a first edition.

Sadly childhoods aren't usually sufficient considerations for courts . Just remember it the way you want too.

Actually, one of the oldest rules in sales ever is "The customer is always right." So, if he wants to keep up his sales, the customer is always right..

Offline Oniya

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Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #48 on: September 04, 2011, 04:25:07 PM »
Ah, but I never said it would be possible - just that it was probably the only thing that would be effective.  :P

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Lucas changes Star Wars..again.
« Reply #49 on: September 04, 2011, 04:29:54 PM »
Actually, one of the oldest rules in sales ever is "The customer is always right." So, if he wants to keep up his sales, the customer is always right..
That's what the salespeople tell you to get you to buy things. "The real adage is more like Make the customer think they're right." I still think the majority of people are going to buy it.

Actually, knowing what a damnably shrewd business man Lucas is this will be his strategy:

Slowly over various releases change small things to see what fans like and don't.
Do this over several years and then release the remastered but unchanged "classic" edition for ruinous amounts of money.

Despite what his fans think Lucas is not stupid. Not by a long shot.