Thinking of running again: D&D, or Maid? [Humanoid Bondage/Consensual]

[Kunoichi]

*shrugs* I'm not that good at judging whether or not something is CR-appropriate, myself, so...

[kongming]

O-kay... time to go through and answer some things:
Silver Dragon: if you can give me a good story for it, I'll read it at least, and might allow it. I actually got a warning bell at "Considered Tier X", because in my circle, the Tier system is considered a joke. Looking through it, I'd say it has a strong chassis (HP, Saves, BAB, Skills - Dragon Hit Dice, naturally), and slowly gets some nice tricks there, so in general I'm fine, but I feel that, given dragons don't generally wield weapons or wear armour, I will be a bit more lenient with the boosts gained:
Natural Armour: as listed, but each time you grow, you gain the natural armour listed for the size increase (more than +1)
Ability Score boosts: double these, and when you grow, you gain the ability score changes listed for size increase (pretty big)
When you hit Large, the breath can be upgraded to d8/level.

I'm aware that's pretty powerful with these changes, but we're comparing against Wizards, Flask-Rogues and so on, and the setting isn't exactly generous with magic items (don't worry though, I will try to get people appropriate gear for their levels to ensure there are no "Well the book says this was a good challenge, sure, you didn't have any magic weapons or the ability to see invisible" cases).

IK Dragons: they were made to be godlike, so are "CR HUGE", but probably weren't very well-made for that (to be fair, few companies, WotC included, make well-statted NPCs, and it's hard to accurately gauge monsters for high levels). I'll be making them myself so that they start arriving at earlier levels, aren't just automatic "I win" with powers, and are generally "Scary melee warriors who can fly and use a variety of breath weapons".

I will have to look and see if Iron Liches are also weak, as has been pointed out. I don't want to frustrate/annihilate the PCs, but I don't want to disappoint you with pushovers either.

TheGlyphstone: I'll admit it's unlikely, but it really depends on all the characters that are presented.

The Tome Tiefling can be used for a Satyxis, sure. As for Factotum, it isn't a setting-specific class so I'm okay with it (indeed it's one part "Action Hero - I can theoretically do anything" and one part Dungeon Crawler, and IK has a lot of swamps, sewers, dungeons, fortresses, trenches and the like to crawl through). Just... make sure there are things you can do. IIRC, they can mostly just add their Int? to various things or gain extra actions, but don't really have impressive things to use those actions on, and I should point out that "All skills" does not include "No-longer-existing skills from a splat book for 3.0 for another, Oriental, setting". But if you have a good plan of action that involves being able to traverse difficult terrain, hold your own against the critters of IK and also deal with people socially... go for it.

Wild Cohort is fine, yeah - in general though, I'll actually allow you to have any animal or dire animal with a CR at least 3 less than your level. Font of Inspiration, in line with "Feats should be really good as you only get 7 of them in your life", I would allow but change to this:
"By taking this feat, which can only be taken once, you gain an extra point of Inspiration. Furthermore, the benefits of having it scale with your hit dice:

• 5 Hit Dice: you gain another point of Inspiration, as well as 4 extra skill points.
• 10 Hit Dice: you gain one more point of Inspiration, and once per round can make a Skill check as a Free action.
• 15 Hit Dice: you gain yet another point of Inspiration, and just flat-out gain three Skill Tricks (same book, IIRC? Or Complete Scoundrel?)"

Yeah, Puppeteer does Electricity damage. With anything where it's an obvious typo/misprint and there's a very logical answer, just go with logic and correct it. If something requires asking, feel free to ask.

And yeah, I'm okay with discussing IK stuff here even while Maid is still getting worked out. Do people want, for the ability scores:
1. 32 point-buy?
2. Me to roll a few different arrays and let you pick one?
3. The alternate point-buy thing where you buy them up from zero, 1-for-1 (so a 10 costs 10, an 18 costs 18) - but minimum of 8 still - with 75 points?

Likewise, what region are you interested in starting in, who do you want to antagonise, and do you want a modest start (level 3-5) where you clamber up to the top, or a more "We're already just about in crazy land!" approach where you're level 10, considered generals, and can really make things happen? I want to be pretty flexible here, basically.

[SomeGuy]

All skills does include Jack Handling and the new Steam/Clockwork crafting ones though.

Iron liches I would highly recommend giving them either a better firebox or getting rid of/replacing it all together. The stat 'bonuses' are really, really bad and the Soul Cages are an interesting bit of fluff but mechanically terrible. As for dragons, anything that's CR 66 and has a SR in the low 30s (34 to be exact) obviously has some design issues. Between the terrible initiative bonus and defenses chances are pretty good none of them will even be able to act before being horribly murdered.

As for stats, the second or third both seem interesting. 32 point-buy is just so... meh.

[TheGlyphstone]

I'll keep my fingers crossed then...unless you'll let me play a personality 'Jack of some kind, on the grounds that a completely genderless character is better than a male character. If someone else plays either a Warcaster or a Bodger/Mechanik, even better.

As for options - I'd vote for options 2 or 3 as well on stats, and preference towards the upper levels...maybe not 10, but 7+, enough that we'd be able to squeeze a PrC level or two in.

[SomeGuy]

I'm actually planning on going for Warcaster and fallensaviour mentioned Bodger.

And since I forgot to mention my level preference before I'm with Glyph, 7-8 seems like a good area.

[Kunoichi]

O-kay... time to go through and answer some things:
Silver Dragon: if you can give me a good story for it, I'll read it at least, and might allow it.

Alright. ^^ I'll send it to you via PMs, since I've also got some potential plot hooks you might use if you allow it.

I actually got a warning bell at "Considered Tier X", because in my circle, the Tier system is considered a joke.

Ah.  Well, it was specifically balanced against the Tome of Battle, if it helps. ^^;

Looking through it, I'd say it has a strong chassis (HP, Saves, BAB, Skills - Dragon Hit Dice, naturally),

Low Ref save and skill points compared to Dragon HD, really, but yes, still rather powerful.

and slowly gets some nice tricks there, so in general I'm fine, but I feel that, given dragons don't generally wield weapons or wear armour, I will be a bit more lenient with the boosts gained:
Natural Armour: as listed, but each time you grow, you gain the natural armour listed for the size increase (more than +1)
Ability Score boosts: double these, and when you grow, you gain the ability score changes listed for size increase (pretty big)
When you hit Large, the breath can be upgraded to d8/level.

...Wow.  Those are going to be fun. And I guess with the Strength boosts, I won't even need to blow any money on a Necklace of Natural Attacks...  Though, I'll probably still try and get a Sizing Skillful Guisarme, since my character's going to be in disguise fairly often.

I'm aware that's pretty powerful with these changes, but we're comparing against Wizards, Flask-Rogues and so on, and the setting isn't exactly generous with magic items (don't worry though, I will try to get people appropriate gear for their levels to ensure there are no "Well the book says this was a good challenge, sure, you didn't have any magic weapons or the ability to see invisible" cases).

Ah, I see.  Well, my character should certainly have little trouble keeping up, at least...

IK Dragons: they were made to be godlike, so are "CR HUGE", but probably weren't very well-made for that (to be fair, few companies, WotC included, make well-statted NPCs, and it's hard to accurately gauge monsters for high levels). I'll be making them myself so that they start arriving at earlier levels, aren't just automatic "I win" with powers, and are generally "Scary melee warriors who can fly and use a variety of breath weapons".

Should make for some interesting encounters. ^^

And yeah, I'm okay with discussing IK stuff here even while Maid is still getting worked out. Do people want, for the ability scores:
1. 32 point-buy?
2. Me to roll a few different arrays and let you pick one?
3. The alternate point-buy thing where you buy them up from zero, 1-for-1 (so a 10 costs 10, an 18 costs 18) - but minimum of 8 still - with 75 points?

Likewise, what region are you interested in starting in, who do you want to antagonise, and do you want a modest start (level 3-5) where you clamber up to the top, or a more "We're already just about in crazy land!" approach where you're level 10, considered generals, and can really make things happen? I want to be pretty flexible here, basically.

I prefer 32 point-buy, myself, since it's the stat generation method I'm the most familiar with.  I'm willing to try either of the other two options if that's what people want, though.

I'd like to start at a higher level, but I'm fine with the 'modest start' option, as well.  I'd actually prefer 10, but that's because that's the level I get my first Size increase...

[TheGlyphstone]

And dammit, now I can't stop thinking about the potential hilarity of a female 'caster who's "modified" and trained her Steamjack/warjack for...'personal' use. Not to mention the ethical implications of having a vibrator/Sybian that's sentient but lacks any concept of sex, gender, or pleasure. Maybe it vents its boilers when she climaxes, because loud noise=happy 'caster, happy caster=happy jack, so happiness=making a loud noise?

[Kunoichi]

xD That is a pretty funny concept...

[fallensaviour]

though, i dont do lady characters well... they usually end up as bimbos rather than you know...people

[SomeGuy]

Thinking about it I can see a number of viable reasons for a Silver dragon to be in IK. Experimenting on lifestones comes to mind quick enough.

[TheGlyphstone]

xD That is a pretty funny concept...

Funny, and maybe a bit more serious and worth considering than I gave it credit for at first. Putting aside the issue of using what effectively amounts to a mentally handicapped human as a personal sex toy/slave, there's the much more intriguing question of feedback. 'Jack links are two-way to a limited extent, though that's supposed to be for the caster to more effectively control his/her jacks. This hypothetical steamjack might be 'conditioned' by repeated recreational use, but it's still hardwired to enjoy battle and combat, so would having her toy-jack punching things in the face make its caster horny?

[Kunoichi]

Thinking about it I can see a number of viable reasons for a Silver dragon to be in IK. Experimenting on lifestones comes to mind quick enough.

True, and I'd imagine such impromptu heart surgery would leave a rather distinctive scar...

[SomeGuy]

My first thought on seeing the Fiend class in the Tome was actually that I should play one and replace my heart with a Lifestone, then challenge Ashardalon somehow.

[Kunoichi]

Dragon with Fiend-Heart vs Fiend with Dragon-Heart? Interesting matchup, though I can't help but wonder if Fiends are immune to the Dragon-blight...

[SomeGuy]

I generally would say "anything but low level (1-4ish)" but last time I started at level 10 with IK the party got the crap beaten out of it with an unlucky encounter with a Death Jack. There were 5 of us, and we all had leadership for free so 5 cohorts so a CR 15 encounter shouldn't have been to bad. We had all the bases covered and cohorts ended up being specialists, and with just a bit of bad luck we won but the cohorts got wasted and a few of us needed to be brought back too.

[DKDBSD]

Maid:
1. Yeah, there is still room
2. The book actually says "feel free to share/download via piracy, it's the best way people will know about us, then if you decide you like it, please purchase afterwards"
3. Yes, it's a fantasy setting
4. Breathplay, that's okay - just wanted to make sure people are still interested.

Erm I see it was a sort of medieval setting right?

[kongming]

Yep, that's right. Medieval/high fantasy, with the mansion actually being a dungeon. Note: as opposed to the usual fare of slime, cobwebs and glowing fungus, this one is kept very clean.

[SomeGuy]

So, uh. It looks suspiciously like two feats that Warcaster has as requirements are now in fact one feat. Combat Casting and Skill Focus (Concentration) appears to now just be Combat Casting [Skill], so does that count for both feats or what?

[DKDBSD]

Yep, that's right. Medieval/high fantasy, with the mansion actually being a dungeon. Note: as opposed to the usual fare of slime, cobwebs and glowing fungus, this one is kept very clean.

Erm I have a proposition would you be willing to run this and help me form one in a modern day setting?

[Ershin]

The Tome Tiefling can be used for a Satyxis, sure.

Thank you, I would even have settled for a standard +1 LA Tiefling since the positive and negative scores are uneven.

As for Factotum, it isn't a setting-specific class so I'm okay with it (indeed it's one part "Action Hero - I can theoretically do anything" and one part Dungeon Crawler, and IK has a lot of swamps, sewers, dungeons, fortresses, trenches and the like to crawl through). Just... make sure there are things you can do. IIRC, they can mostly just add their Int? to various things or gain extra actions, but don't really have impressive things to use those actions on, and I should point out that "All skills" does not include "No-longer-existing skills from a splat book for 3.0 for another, Oriental, setting". But if you have a good plan of action that involves being able to traverse difficult terrain, hold your own against the critters of IK and also deal with people socially... go for it.

If you mean Iaijutsu Focus, that's reasonable. I'm not even sure why it's a skill and not a feat to be honest. And yes, Factotums are solidly based around their intelligence, adding it to all strength and dexterity based checks (this may or may not include initiative, since it's a dexterity check. It would be a little silly if it did, but I guess it's up to the DM to decide) for example. Or a bonus to attack rolls when spending an Inspiration point
The level 8 ability lets one of them spend inspiration points to gain an extra standard action, yeah. Due to the sheer number of things they can do (admittedly not as well as the classes built specifically for those individual things) they'll never run out of fun things to do (even if it's just hitting things with a sword. Unless dazed, stunned, dominated, dead, etc.)

Wild Cohort is fine, yeah - in general though, I'll actually allow you to have any animal or dire animal with a CR at least 3 less than your level. Font of Inspiration, in line with "Feats should be really good as you only get 7 of them in your life", I would allow but change to this:
"By taking this feat, which can only be taken once, you gain an extra point of Inspiration. Furthermore, the benefits of having it scale with your hit dice:

• 5 Hit Dice: you gain another point of Inspiration, as well as 4 extra skill points.
• 10 Hit Dice: you gain one more point of Inspiration, and once per round can make a Skill check as a Free action.
• 15 Hit Dice: you gain yet another point of Inspiration, and just flat-out gain three Skill Tricks (same book, IIRC? Or Complete Scoundrel?)"

Thank you for your consideration and the improvement on Wild Cohort. Skill tricks are indeed from Complete Scoundrel.

And yeah, I'm okay with discussing IK stuff here even while Maid is still getting worked out. Do people want, for the ability scores:
1. 32 point-buy?
2. Me to roll a few different arrays and let you pick one?
3. The alternate point-buy thing where you buy them up from zero, 1-for-1 (so a 10 costs 10, an 18 costs 18) - but minimum of 8 still - with 75 points?

Likewise, what region are you interested in starting in, who do you want to antagonise, and do you want a modest start (level 3-5) where you clamber up to the top, or a more "We're already just about in crazy land!" approach where you're level 10, considered generals, and can really make things happen? I want to be pretty flexible here, basically.

I've always been partial to point buy myself (though rolling presents the opportunity for a more interesting array with which to think about how to make their story fit their stats), and a modest start of level 4 or 5. I'm still reading up on the setting, so I've not yet got a say on the location.

[Kunoichi]

...Man, now I'm all excited and impatient about Iron Kingdoms. ><; I really need to learn to be more patient when it comes to upcoming games...

[SomeGuy]

The same thing happens with me pretty much every game.

[Kunoichi]

Glad to know I'm not alone in having this problem, then. ^^;

So, having had some time now to familiarize myself with the Tomes' material (and liking quite a bit of what I've seen,) I'm finding myself thinking over the build I'll be using if kongming likes the character concept I've submitted to her.  Given the size and stat increases, I figure I'll wind up with more of a 'melee powerhouse with some extra options' type of character than anything else.  That said, I do have some questions...

First things first, I'm looking over the Knockback feat from Races of Stone.  Looking over its prerequisites, Juggernaut from the Tomes seems to have the same general effect on bull rush checks as Improved Bull Rush, but there isn't really any equivalent for the other prerequisite feat, Power Attack.  Would you allow me to use Juggernaut in place of Improved Bull Rush, kongming?  And also, did I somehow miss whichever feat was intended to replace Power Attack, or will I simply have to take both it and Knockback for my feats?

My third question involves a few feats found on the sidebar on page 15 of Dragons of Eberron, called Half-Dragon Form and Hidden Strength.  They allow a dragon with the alternate form ability to better defend itself while in disguise, though not in a way that would make it stronger while disguised than it would be while revealed.  However, they also have 'Sorcerer level 5th' as a prerequisite.  My question for these feats is, since the Silver Dragon monster class has no innate sorcerer casting, could I replace 'Sorcerer level 5th' with the 'Improved Alternate Form' ability gained at 9th level?

[SomeGuy]

Power attack is now just a combat option instead of a feat. Page 281

You also might want to take a look at Shock Trooper. Knockback + Shock Trooper with Dungeon Crasher Fighter is a fairly standard and highly amusing combo, even without Dungeon Crasher the extra positioning ability given by Shock Trooper is really nice. That is of course assuming you have feat slots free for it, I know I'm short on feat slots. Up until 9th level every feat is taken by prereqs.

[Kunoichi]

Ah.  Well, that takes care of that, then. ^^; And yes, I am considering Shock Trooper, as well.  The only feats I've definitely settled on at this point are Juggernaut, Horde Breaker and Whirlwind, but I'm considering quite a few other feats to go along with them.