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Author Topic: Salt Water as a fuel?  (Read 2023 times)

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Offline NellTopic starter

Salt Water as a fuel?
« on: September 29, 2007, 04:00:22 PM »
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07252/815920-85.stm

The generation of an energy of over 3000 degrees by radiating just a little salt water in a test tube...that is just crazy.

Unfortunately, like the article says, it will take time and money to see if it can even be applied to real life. And even if it could fuel a car, would the cost of a perfected such technology far outweigh what could be afforded? I'm sure it would be quite difficult to actually commit a chamber within a vehicle to safely combust water into an output of over 3000 degrees and convert that into a usable source. Perhaps just for use in mass factories and plants? I suppose we'll have to wait and see...I can guarantee that they're working on it.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: Salt Water as a fuel?
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2007, 12:12:23 AM »
And the way the oil companies run things, the government is going to bury this discovery deeper than Jimmy Hoffa.  And, quite possibly, the person who discovered it...

Offline NellTopic starter

Re: Salt Water as a fuel?
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2007, 04:00:11 PM »
Hah yeah, might be hard to bury the discovery itself now that it's out, but it'll be kept quiet as much as possible, and that guy might just 'disappear' for a little while.

Offline Elvi

Re: Salt Water as a fuel?
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2007, 04:16:01 PM »
I disagree, the present oil companies know their time is running out and if they can get in on another form of energy they will be chomping at the bit to get it first.

Offline NellTopic starter

Re: Salt Water as a fuel?
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2007, 04:34:40 PM »
This is true that oil companies are running out of resource; oil is said to be completely finished in less than 100 years. However, few actually have the money and potential or are credible enough to go as far as to expand into a new type of energy. The ones that are big enough to try are probably still focused on profiteering on the oil that's left and trying to make use of the different types of oil that haven't been used before. So I really wouldn't be surprised if the government had something to do with developing and facilitating the energy source, distributing the details, and raking in profits for this under the back door.

Offline Keiro

Re: Salt Water as a fuel?
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2007, 05:05:54 PM »
Water is also running out.

I know I'll be shouted down on this...but come on, think of global warming and what it's doing to the ice and water.

And what WE'RE doing to the water too!

Offline NellTopic starter

Re: Salt Water as a fuel?
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2007, 09:00:02 PM »
It looks like this topic is starting to blow up a little bit. Here's another page on it if any of you would like to see. Apparently there was a video showing the actual process, but it was taken off due to copyright issues; there is a picture of it though.

http://www.whiskeyandgunpowder.com/Archives/2007/20070626.html


Water running out? I don't think we need to worry about that for a little (extremely long) while. I'm going to agree with you that what we're doing to the water in terms of contamination is getting to be a little bit of a problem. However, the effects of global warming on ice and water are not an imminent problem. We could get into a whole other controversy here, though, as there have been plenty of studies to both prove and disprove global warming. My personal theory is that the Earth will continue to go through cycles of cool and hot as is evident in the past, but will begin to gradually increase in temperature as a whole. But even if this was true, we wouldn't have to worry about it for a while, and technology will probably have an answer for it by then.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Salt Water as a fuel?
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2007, 12:27:52 AM »
Water is also running out.

I know I'll be shouted down on this...but come on, think of global warming and what it's doing to the ice and water.

And what WE'RE doing to the water too!

 We are not going to run out of water anytime soon. within the next few million years at the least. Golbal warming? so what? The world has been hotter and colder before. The polar regions used to be tropical.

Offline Keiro

Re: Salt Water as a fuel?
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2007, 03:09:56 PM »
True.

But if we humans are still living by then...we'll have problems, and hopefully solutions to that.

Contamination is still an issue, which is unfortunate.

But it is interesting if we can use salt water as a fuel.

Offline Zaer Darkwail

Re: Salt Water as a fuel?
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2007, 04:13:48 PM »
Note; Global warming has been proved to be by result of pollution caused to athomsphere and these changes can become PERMAMENT in next ten years. If they become they slowly melt the ice in northern regions and we are flooded and eventually water starts run out thanks hotter temperature burning it out. Also El Nino weather becomes more frequent thanks temperature rising.

So I would take global warming more serious issue than running out of oil and energy source. Human had succeed to live whitout oil in the past and energy and other non-consuming energy forms are developed as we speak (one being fusion energy but so far all attemtps have flopped altough in theory harness power of the core of the sun is very fascinating).

Offline Zakharra

Re: Salt Water as a fuel?
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2007, 07:11:19 PM »
Note; Global warming has been proved to be by result of pollution caused to athomsphere and these changes can become PERMAMENT in next ten years. If they become they slowly melt the ice in northern regions and we are flooded and eventually water starts run out thanks hotter temperature burning it out. Also El Nino weather becomes more frequent thanks temperature rising.

So I would take global warming more serious issue than running out of oil and energy source. Human had succeed to live whitout oil in the past and energy and other non-consuming energy forms are developed as we speak (one being fusion energy but so far all attemtps have flopped altough in theory harness power of the core of the sun is very fascinating).

 Hardly permanent. The enviroment is always changing and will continue to do so for as long as the planet exists.

Offline NellTopic starter

Re: Salt Water as a fuel?
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2007, 10:12:32 PM »
Hardly permanent. The environment is always changing and will continue to do so for as long as the planet exists.

Well the ironic thing there is that we don't know how long it will exist.

But I really don't see the point of any of us arguing for or against global warming here though; this topic is a scientific theory that has been and continues to be researched by scientists far more capable and knowledgeable than us (assuming none of you are research scientists specific to it). If anyone has a right to argue for or against it, it's them and not us. Not John Kerry or any other attention-seeking politicians, but the sources themselves.

So back to the actual topic...whether global warming is true or not, I think we can reach a general consensus that salt water could provide a new source of energy on at least a temporary basis, provided that the properties of it could be properly understood and harnessed to do what we would like.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Salt Water as a fuel?
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2007, 11:03:38 PM »
 A fuel source, yes if they can refine the process of burning it.

Offline Unnatural Selection

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Re: Salt Water as a fuel?
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2007, 06:02:08 AM »
Unfortunately, the laws of thermodynamics say otherwise.  The claim of Dr. Kanzius is that the energy output of the system is greater than the energy put into it. I'm disappointed that a mainstream news source like the Post-Gazette or CBS (where I also saw this) didn't bother to do the most basic scientific fact-checking. 

The radio waves simply loosen the bonds between the hydrogen and oxygen and allow them to be easily broken when exposed to heat.  That's all wonderful, and it seems like it's producing energy, except that the radio frequency generator he's using consumes several times more energy than the flame on the other end produces.  Why no one has yet put a kill a watt on the other end of the RF generator, I'm not sure.

Yes, if we could burn salt water without energy inputs, the world would be a much better place. But the energy required to break the bonds of a molecule of water has always been greater than the energy produced by burning hydrogen and oxygen to create water, that's just the laws of physics, no conspiracy necessary to explain.

Bottom line, if he's come up with an energy efficient way to do work (weaken the bonds of salt water), it's still more economical to just use the energy he'd put into the system to power his toaster oven.

Offline Elvi

Re: Salt Water as a fuel?
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2007, 06:26:00 AM »
Petrol engines were like that when they were first used.
Get the basic idea and then work on it, if it can be done it will be....

Offline NellTopic starter

Re: Salt Water as a fuel?
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2007, 10:09:22 AM »
Exactly. Also, there's a large difference between electrical energy and other forms of energy. I'm guessing the energy used to power those radio waves was electrical, and these days electrical energy is both cheap and abundant. It's a form of energy that never runs out, but doesn't work well in direct appliance to objects such as cars. So the alternative is to use electrical energy as a medium to another form of energy, which, I believe, is what we might have here.

Offline kongming

Re: Salt Water as a fuel?
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2007, 10:36:15 AM »
English scientists managed to confuse themselves recently by developing a device that appears to produce more energy than is put into it. The best answer they could come up with was "It utilises a sub-atomic fuel source in the water that we weren't aware of". So, it converts an unknown matter into energy. They guess.

And considering how often Science is refined, when they go "Hey, you know that thing we thought impossible? Guess what. Go on, have a guess.", I think it's believable that this could end up working really well.

Offline Celestial Goblin

Re: Salt Water as a fuel?
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2007, 11:40:40 AM »
English scientists managed to confuse themselves recently by developing a device that appears to produce more energy than is put into it. The best answer they could come up with was "It utilises a sub-atomic fuel source in the water that we weren't aware of". So, it converts an unknown matter into energy. They guess.

Until the sub-atomic fuel source turns out to be water pixies.
Then we're done for.

Offline kongming

Re: Salt Water as a fuel?
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2007, 11:52:08 AM »
And water pixies are the only things stopping water from being highly toxic to humans.

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Re: Salt Water as a fuel?
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2007, 09:36:52 AM »
My husband told me about a car they've developed that runs on compressed air (http://www.theaircar.com/).  Of course energy must be expended to compress the air, but new innovations like this are where my hope for the future of energy lie.

Offline NellTopic starter

Re: Salt Water as a fuel?
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2007, 05:57:18 PM »
just compressed air? somehow I'm highly doubtful that it would work for more than a mile. Perhaps the use of more volatile molecules?

Offline Elvi

Re: Salt Water as a fuel?
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2007, 06:28:42 PM »
quote:

 After fourteen years of research and development, Guy Negre has developed an engine that could become one of the biggest technological advances of this century. Its application to Compressed Air Technology(CAT) vehicles gives them significant economical and environmental advantages. With the incorporation of bi-energy (compressed air + fuel) the CAT Vehicles have increased their driving range to close to 2000 km with zero pollution in cities and considerably reduced pollution outside urban areas.
   The application of the MDI engine in other areas, outside the automotive sector, opens a multitude of possibilities in nautical fields, co-generation, auxiliary engines, electric generators groups, etc. Compressed air is a new viable form of power that allows the accumulation and transport of energy. MDI is very close to initiating the production of a series of engines and vehicles. The company is financed by the sale of manufacturing licenses and patents all over the world.

I've seen the CAT before, it looks so cute, though I think it will be a while before it manages to make any significant contribution.
However, every little helps and everything has to start somewhere....

Offline Zaer Darkwail

Re: Salt Water as a fuel?
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2007, 10:40:14 AM »
I am not scientist but I know so far that air pressure is good only single motioned actions and often uncontrorable burst. But if you make the motion to make a wheels spin according rapid explosions of air pressure (or simply upkeep 'pump' going up and down like in old steam trains) then it could work.

It is non-poluting energy at least but finacial? Depends how big pressure chambers you make on cars and how you prevent fuel running out fast and how you place pressure into engine/containers in first place. I know whit some mechanical pump you can load air pressure chamber but to get respectable level of pressure air contained you need alot force behind the pump.

Offline Elvi

Re: Salt Water as a fuel?
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2007, 11:28:26 AM »
Well they have it working the first production is due out of the factory early 2008....

Offline NellTopic starter

Re: Salt Water as a fuel?
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2007, 09:11:54 PM »
quote:

 After fourteen years of research and development, Guy Negre has developed an engine that could become one of the biggest technological advances of this century. Its application to Compressed Air Technology(CAT) vehicles gives them significant economical and environmental advantages. With the incorporation of bi-energy (compressed air + fuel) the CAT Vehicles have increased their driving range to close to 2000 km with zero pollution in cities and considerably reduced pollution outside urban areas.
   The application of the MDI engine in other areas, outside the automotive sector, opens a multitude of possibilities in nautical fields, co-generation, auxiliary engines, electric generators groups, etc. Compressed air is a new viable form of power that allows the accumulation and transport of energy. MDI is very close to initiating the production of a series of engines and vehicles. The company is financed by the sale of manufacturing licenses and patents all over the world.

I've seen the CAT before, it looks so cute, though I think it will be a while before it manages to make any significant contribution.
However, every little helps and everything has to start somewhere....

Yeah, I would have expected something more towards this. Of course, as I had thought, it is not run on purely compressed air, but rather it is a hybrid of sorts. However, this does not completely solve the problem of a shortage of fuel; it only prolongs it. Fuel is still a necessary source in this development. We need to focus more on how we can change getting more miles per gallon into how we can completely revolutionize transportation and common appliances.