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Author Topic: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?  (Read 40035 times)

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Offline Chris Brady

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #200 on: August 14, 2011, 02:46:46 AM »
As for the original thread question, it's easy, the horde has Blood Elves! *giggles*

I couldn't resist, they're my favourite :-)

Besides, ever since Dungeon Keeper, "It's Good to be Bad" so, there you go, main reason to hate the goody Alliance :P
That's just it, the Alliance AREN'T good.  They're racist (they kicked out the Blood Elves for changing their names), they've created all the major villains in some way (Illidan, Medivh's creation of the Horde, Arthas AKA Daddykiller, AKA the LICH KING, Nathaniel Blightcaller, Major Samuelson being a Twilight Cult infiltrator, and you could probably lay most of the Troll trouble at the High Elven feet.  Not to mention the Naga and Satyr being of Night Elven descent) there are very few actual Horde 'villains' other then Gul'dan, and HE was tempted by Medivh.  Hell, even the Draenae (Sp) were part of the Burning Legion as the Eredar.

If you want the TRUE Heroes of Azeroth, play the Horde.  They're the goodie too shoes of Warcraft.  You want to play a villain, go Alliance.  That's where the evil is at.

Offline LunarSageTopic starter

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #201 on: August 14, 2011, 08:06:52 AM »
That's just it, the Alliance AREN'T good.  They're racist (they kicked out the Blood Elves for changing their names), they've created all the major villains in some way (Illidan, Medivh's creation of the Horde, Arthas AKA Daddykiller, AKA the LICH KING, Nathaniel Blightcaller, Major Samuelson being a Twilight Cult infiltrator, and you could probably lay most of the Troll trouble at the High Elven feet.  Not to mention the Naga and Satyr being of Night Elven descent) there are very few actual Horde 'villains' other then Gul'dan, and HE was tempted by Medivh.  Hell, even the Draenae (Sp) were part of the Burning Legion as the Eredar.

If you want the TRUE Heroes of Azeroth, play the Horde.  They're the goodie too shoes of Warcraft.  You want to play a villain, go Alliance.  That's where the evil is at.

That's way off.  Ridiculously so.  I can't even convey how off that is.

"The Alliance had more NPCs who turned into villains, so they must be villains!" 

I question that logic.  That's like saying all humans must be evil in real life because of all the humans who've been serial killers.

They have a handful of corrupt or racist (also, racist does not equate evil) NPC leaders but none of them are even close to as evil as Sylvanus who is a -Horde- leader. 

Seriously... show me a quest Alliance side where you knowingly do something evil.  I can point out more than a few Horde quests where you do just that.

This is not to say that the Horde are evil as a whole either... but to turn around and paint that same broad stroke on the Alliance is unfair.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 08:33:21 AM by LunarSage »

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #202 on: August 14, 2011, 10:15:57 AM »
That's just it, the Alliance AREN'T good.  They're racist (they kicked out the Blood Elves for changing their names), they've created all the major villains in some way (Illidan, Medivh's creation of the Horde, Arthas AKA Daddykiller, AKA the LICH KING, Nathaniel Blightcaller, Major Samuelson being a Twilight Cult infiltrator, and you could probably lay most of the Troll trouble at the High Elven feet.  Not to mention the Naga and Satyr being of Night Elven descent) there are very few actual Horde 'villains' other then Gul'dan, and HE was tempted by Medivh.  Hell, even the Draenae (Sp) were part of the Burning Legion as the Eredar.

If you want the TRUE Heroes of Azeroth, play the Horde.  They're the goodie too shoes of Warcraft.  You want to play a villain, go Alliance.  That's where the evil is at.

That's way off.  Ridiculously so.  I can't even convey how off that is.

"The Alliance had more NPCs who turned into villains, so they must be villains!" 

I question that logic.  That's like saying all humans must be evil in real life because of all the humans who've been serial killers.

They have a handful of corrupt or racist (also, racist does not equate evil) NPC leaders but none of them are even close to as evil as Sylvanus who is a -Horde- leader. 

Seriously... show me a quest Alliance side where you knowingly do something evil.  I can point out more than a few Horde quests where you do just that.

This is not to say that the Horde are evil as a whole either... but to turn around and paint that same broad stroke on the Alliance is unfair.

Not to mention all the bits it's leaving out, such as a irrelevant little person called Ner'zhul? You know, the ORIGINAL LICH KING? Who was an Orc?
- The all-Horde demon-worshipping Shadow Council who was the other half of building the Dark Portal, alongside the demonically possessed Medivh (who, you know, was possessed before birth by a Dark Titan, so can't really be blamed for what he did?)
-Nathanos Blightcaller is not a point in your favor - he died a hero defending Stratholme, and as soon as he was free of the Scourge, he joined up with the Forsaken and Sylvanas, becoming really evil in the process.
- Not sure why you pick on Major Samuelson, but conveniently forget about his opposite number High Shaman Sauranok.
- While we're at it, if we're blaming the Night Elves for the Troll problems, let's blame the Trolls for the Nerubian problem, since they also had a war...so the Trolls are directly responsible for the existence of a huge portion of the Scourge, and they're also responsible for nearly destroying the world through C'thun and the Aqir of Silthilus.
-Gul'Dan was not tempted by Medivh, he was tempted by Sargeras who was using Medivh as a meat-puppet;
- the Draenai were never part of the Burning Legion, they're specifically the eredar who remains uncorrupted.

So yeah - repeatedly factually incorrect and heavily biased pro-Horde propaganda, not to mention very logically shaky. It's people like you who are responsible for perpetuating the whole factional hatred thing, even when it makes no sense to do so. This sort of thing in-game makes perfect sense, but honestly believing it out-of-game is less so.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 10:19:28 AM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline Shjade

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #203 on: August 14, 2011, 11:30:27 AM »
What I honestly believe out of game: Both factions are dicks so everyone should side with the Argent Crusade.

=D

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #204 on: August 14, 2011, 12:19:02 PM »
What I honestly believe out of game: Both factions are dicks so everyone should side with the Argent Crusade.

=D

As long as they replace Tiron Fordring as the leader - the man whose bright idea it was to stage a massive gladiator death tournament on the Lich King's doorstep?

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #205 on: August 14, 2011, 06:56:48 PM »
That's just it, the Alliance AREN'T good.  They're racist (they kicked out the Blood Elves for changing their names), they've created all the major villains in some way (Illidan, Medivh's creation of the Horde, Arthas AKA Daddykiller, AKA the LICH KING, Nathaniel Blightcaller, Major Samuelson being a Twilight Cult infiltrator, and you could probably lay most of the Troll trouble at the High Elven feet.  Not to mention the Naga and Satyr being of Night Elven descent) there are very few actual Horde 'villains' other then Gul'dan, and HE was tempted by Medivh.  Hell, even the Draenae (Sp) were part of the Burning Legion as the Eredar.

If you want the TRUE Heroes of Azeroth, play the Horde.  They're the goodie too shoes of Warcraft.  You want to play a villain, go Alliance.  That's where the evil is at.

That's not true with the Blood Elves by the way..and the Dranei that came to Azeroth were the ones that DIDN'T convert to the Burning Legion.

Blood Elves are magic addicts. Always were. With the destruction of the Well of Eternity, they split off from the Night Elves and set up the Sunwell. They were the High Elves then till Arthras destroyed it. Then their leader turned to feeding on Fel Blood and Magic to stave off their addictions, that was when they became Blood Elves (Named so by the Prince to memorialize the fallen of Silvermoon).

Blood elf paladins stole power from a Naruu to fuel their powers.

With the re-ignition of the Sunwell, there is a chance for them to step back from the brink. But they aren't innocent victims but addicts who did what they had to satisfy their needs. Remember they allied with Illiadan and the Naga, only when Kael'thas' duplicity came out did any large faction of them break with him. (The Scryers)

The Draenei crashed do to the interference of the Blood Elf/Burning legion. They were the Eredar that DIDN'T turn to the legion and allied with the Naruu.

Basically, in my opinion, both sides have good and evil in them. Some of it from scars from war (Humans/Gnomes), some of it schism within themselves (the Dwarves), others it's their drives (Goblins) and for some it's their nature. (Undead). I don't think the Orcs, Trolls or Tauren are outright evil, but they have made some BAD calls to maintain their equilibrium.

Taking in the Undead..definitely. The Blood Elves possibly. The Goblins? Not sure. Appointing Garrosh Hellscream as warcheif was a mistake. He's more likely to split the Horde than the Alliance is.

The Alliance is several bombs waiting for the right fuse though. The humans have schisms that are waiting for the right hammer to split them and the Dwarves are one council meeting from Civil War.

And I think the Horde with a savvy leader to have turned the Undead from Gilneas and avoided adding a new member to the Alliance.

(Yes, I read way too much lore of the game I play. :D )

I find it sad the best bridge builders in the game, Thrall and Jaina Proudmoore, are in positions that prevent them from doing so. I think any hope of peace is moot till they make a move.

Offline Shjade

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #206 on: August 15, 2011, 01:07:39 AM »
As long as they replace Tiron Fordring as the leader - the man whose bright idea it was to stage a massive gladiator death tournament on the Lich King's doorstep?
Are you kidding? It was a brilliant idea to get the PvP crowd out to Northrend to help the cause!

Offline LunarSageTopic starter

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #207 on: August 15, 2011, 07:44:35 AM »
As long as they replace Tiron Fordring as the leader - the man whose bright idea it was to stage a massive gladiator death tournament on the Lich King's doorstep?

Eh, PvP zones often don't really make much sense in the context of the game's lore...

Offline Silverfyre

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Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #208 on: August 15, 2011, 07:52:13 AM »
Except that they usually do, lore wise.  The Argent Tournament was hardly a traditional "PvP zone" save for the flavor of lore that was involved with it being "Horde" vs. "Alliance" but you rarely went up against other players there if I remember correctly.


Offline meikle

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #209 on: August 15, 2011, 10:05:39 AM »
Except that they usually do, lore wise.  The Argent Tournament was hardly a traditional "PvP zone" save for the flavor of lore that was involved with it being "Horde" vs. "Alliance" but you rarely went up against other players there if I remember correctly.

Yep, the Argent Tournament was just a grind surrounding a short dungeon and a raid.

Offline Silverfyre

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Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #210 on: August 15, 2011, 10:15:43 AM »
Gods, did I hate the jousting. 

Offline Shjade

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #211 on: August 15, 2011, 01:45:51 PM »
I always found it interesting how jousting was so love/hate. I don't think I ever met anyone who was just sorta meh about it; people either went all YAY MOUNTED COMBAT FINALLY or MAN FUCK JOUSTING SO HARD.

I wasn't a zealous fan of the mechanic, myself, but I did like it, mostly because I was pretty good at it. Could clear all 5 upper tier joust challenges and the 4 lesser tier challenges (or was it 4 and 3? Been too long, I forget) on the same horse without going under 70% health on it in a smooth clear, fly down, wipe out the courtyard knights, done. It wasn't a profound minigame or anything, but it was a neat little divergence from the normal stationary combat.

On the other hand one of my better friends in the game hated it 'cause she had so much trouble with it. Helped her with it when I could, but it was still a bother for her. :|

Offline Silverfyre

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Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #212 on: August 15, 2011, 02:14:05 PM »
My computer at the time was hardly the best and I had some graphic issues out there at the tournament for the first few months before I got a newer card. The controls were clunky at best.  It was also the fact that you really HAD to joust to get anywhere with the dailies and the dungeon that bothered me.  I'm all for new mechanics but if people don't want to use them, don't make 'em.  Just my opinion.

Offline Aiden

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #213 on: August 15, 2011, 07:26:23 PM »


/discussion over!

Offline Shjade

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #214 on: August 15, 2011, 10:23:27 PM »
It's funny because it's true.

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #215 on: August 15, 2011, 10:26:37 PM »
It's funny because it's true.

Yet the character doing the discussion is of a race that has the intent of wiping all life on the planet off the map.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #216 on: August 15, 2011, 10:27:56 PM »
That bit, yeah. Now, someone go do up a comic about the poor Quillboars.  :P

Offline LunarSageTopic starter

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #217 on: August 15, 2011, 10:34:58 PM »
Yet the character doing the discussion is of a race that has the intent of wiping all life on the planet off the map.

+1

Offline Chris Brady

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #218 on: August 15, 2011, 11:29:16 PM »
If nothing else, WoW has had two major expansions dealing with Alliance made villains.  Burning Crusade, where the big bad is Illidan Stormrage, brother of Malfurion.  And Arthas Teranas, aka The Lich King.

although...  I admit that I cannot really fault him for the purging of Strathholme.  There really was no way of saving that town.  What he did later on?  Yeah, he's going to Hell for that.

Also, patch 4.2 confirms that the Horde is better then the Alliance, with that cute Thrall chain for that Epic.  He's the greatest hope the world of Azeroth has.

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #219 on: August 15, 2011, 11:40:15 PM »
If nothing else, WoW has had two major expansions dealing with Alliance made villains.  Burning Crusade, where the big bad is Illidan Stormrage, brother of Malfurion.  And Arthas Teranas, aka The Lich King.

although...  I admit that I cannot really fault him for the purging of Strathholme.  There really was no way of saving that town.  What he did later on?  Yeah, he's going to Hell for that.

Also, patch 4.2 confirms that the Horde is better then the Alliance, with that cute Thrall chain for that Epic.  He's the greatest hope the world of Azeroth has.

I hope you'll not fault me for wishing he'd chosen a better Warcheif though. I couldn't stand Garrosh in Beta and from what I've seen he's no more a leader now than then.

Offline Shjade

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #220 on: August 15, 2011, 11:45:39 PM »
Yet the character doing the discussion is of a race that has the intent of wiping all life on the planet off the map.
Like I said: it's funny because it's true. That includes the context of who's telling the story and why. ;p

Offline Chris Brady

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #221 on: August 16, 2011, 03:56:59 AM »
I hope you'll not fault me for wishing he'd chosen a better Warcheif though. I couldn't stand Garrosh in Beta and from what I've seen he's no more a leader now than then.
I have dubbed him King Whiny.  When I'm on my Orc (which is rare) and I'm in Orgrimmar, I always make a note of going to his hall and giving my proper respects.  By walking up to him and /spit.

Offline LunarSageTopic starter

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #222 on: August 16, 2011, 07:18:00 AM »
If nothing else, WoW has had two major expansions dealing with Alliance made villains.  Burning Crusade, where the big bad is Illidan Stormrage, brother of Malfurion.  And Arthas Teranas, aka The Lich King.

although...  I admit that I cannot really fault him for the purging of Strathholme.  There really was no way of saving that town.  What he did later on?  Yeah, he's going to Hell for that.

Also, patch 4.2 confirms that the Horde is better then the Alliance, with that cute Thrall chain for that Epic.  He's the greatest hope the world of Azeroth has.

Again... the Alliance are not villains.  Wrynn and a few others are morally questionable, but that doesn't magically make the Alliance the bad guys anymore than that little story up there makes the Defias the good guys.  They were still a band of murderous thugs and pirates who needed to be stopped, regardless of their origins.

Also, saying one faction in a video game is "better" is odd, even outright silly... I love the Alliance, but I wouldn't say my faction is better.  This is something I see about Horde players a lot (I'm not implying that you in particular do all this, but it seems to be common enough that it's worth mentioning).  They wear Horde clothing... they go around chanting "for the Horde" at cons and sometimes more mundane places.  They take the game frighteningly seriously.  It's like "dude, it's a game... why does what imaginary faction I choose to play my imaginary character in on a video game of all things cause you to judge my worth as a person in real life?"  Alliance players tend to be less obsessive over the game in my experience.

Offline Silverfyre

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Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #223 on: August 16, 2011, 07:38:47 AM »
That's a rather one-sided opinion.  I've seen Alliance players do the exact same thing you are accusing the Horde players of doing.  People take gaming seriously, regardless of what side they may choose to play and what game they play. It can become an addiction but it's rare that it is something debilitating.  It's a culture all its own. 


Offline Krysia

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #224 on: August 16, 2011, 08:42:26 AM »
Also, saying one faction in a video game is "better" is odd, even outright silly... I love the Alliance, but I wouldn't say my faction is better.  This is something I see about Horde players a lot (I'm not implying that you in particular do all this, but it seems to be common enough that it's worth mentioning).  They wear Horde clothing... they go around chanting "for the Horde" at cons and sometimes more mundane places.  They take the game frighteningly seriously.  It's like "dude, it's a game... why does what imaginary faction I choose to play my imaginary character in on a video game of all things cause you to judge my worth as a person in real life?"  Alliance players tend to be less obsessive over the game in my experience.

If this is true, then why did you start this thread? If you didn't feel "so strongly" about the Alliance then why bring this whole topic up?

From what I see the whole thing boils down to opinion. I've seen both Alliance and Horde players be fanatical about the game and their faction. It's my opinion that the Horde is better for my style of gaming I enjoy. Doesn't mean an Alliance player has any less fun (unless I body camp) then I do.