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Author Topic: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?  (Read 71679 times)

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Online TheGlyphstone

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #175 on: August 05, 2011, 11:03:18 AM »
It's not unexpected, I mean look at what the folks who made City of Heroes had to do with the Fifth Column. They had to remove ALL Nazi associations to let the game be released in German (where it's illegal apparently)

I say that the Panderan should be let in but hey.. I'm not terribly PC. It's one thing to be considerate of others, it's another to totally avoid anything potentially confrontational.

It's PC, sure, but it's driven 100% by economics. Blizzard's game design policies are actively shaped by Chinese cultural mores, because it represents such a significant chunk of their international market. They got away with the Forsaken and the various skeletons of WotLK because it was (relatively) easy to art-render flesh over the exposed bones and re-release it that way. Panda(ren)s, though, would have to be relegated to a purely NPC role, and one impossible to attack/kill in the game (a neutral rep faction, most likely).

Offline meikle

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #176 on: August 05, 2011, 05:51:37 PM »
for the whole China problem.

Someone's going to need to start providing citations because everything I can find says that there are no rules against putting pandas in videogames in china.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #177 on: August 05, 2011, 06:14:38 PM »
Someone's going to need to start providing citations because everything I can find says that there are no rules against putting pandas in videogames in china.

It's a cultural thing I think, like the skeletons, rather than an outright law like the Nazi symbols and Germany which is part of their legal system.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #178 on: August 05, 2011, 06:42:34 PM »
Someone's going to need to start providing citations because everything I can find says that there are no rules against putting pandas in videogames in china.

It's not a law against putting pandas in videogames, it was supposedly a law against depicting the killing of pandas. Though now that you've prompted, it appears to be a lot more muddled than I realized:
http://wow.joystiq.com/2008/03/10/the-great-panda-debate/
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=167032.2/how-cata-could-make-pandarens-playable-for-later

Quote from: WoWWiki
Another persistent rumor regarding their non-inclusion in the game is that there is a law in China prohibiting any depiction of violence against pandas, even anthropomorphic pandas, even in a video game. This rumor is, in fact, baseless. Not only does such a law not exist, but there is at least one Chinese MMO that does feature both PvP and a playable race of pandas.

During the discussion panel at Blizzcon 2009, it was stated that the Pandaren have not had an increased presence in the game due to legal issues with China.
So I get to season my dinner with some crow, but there's still 'unstated legal issues'. The discussion thread seemed to indicate China's biggest issue was their national mascot depicted in traditional Japanese outfits.

Offline CmdrRenegade

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #179 on: August 06, 2011, 09:49:20 PM »
I agree, seeing Fargo become an actual in game character is just awesome.

I did lose track of the comic, not sure how long it continued but I enjoyed it. I also liked one based on a tauren warrior, equinox I think.

Sadly, Fargo left Gamespy about 3 or 4 years ago.  Flintlocke didn't last past Burning Crusade if I remember correctly.  I loved Flintlocke's insanity too.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #180 on: August 06, 2011, 10:13:09 PM »
Sadly, Fargo left Gamespy about 3 or 4 years ago.  Flintlocke didn't last past Burning Crusade if I remember correctly.  I loved Flintlocke's insanity too.

Yeah.. but he's a GREAT quest giver. :D

Offline Chris Brady

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #181 on: August 12, 2011, 05:30:47 PM »
Sadly, Fargo left Gamespy about 3 or 4 years ago.  Flintlocke didn't last past Burning Crusade if I remember correctly.  I loved Flintlocke's insanity too.
He shows up as part of the Twilight Highlands quest chain beginner, I think.  The reward near the end of it is his 'Chuckshooter' a green rifle.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #182 on: August 12, 2011, 06:26:55 PM »
He shows up as part of the Twilight Highlands quest chain beginner, I think.  The reward near the end of it is his 'Chuckshooter' a green rifle.

With the flavor text of 'this gun has been cleaned.. never'. Or such. I LOVE it.. It's one of the reason I have so many level 85 toons on the alliance side (not really but hey) who have opened up the twilight quests. He's go the 'fix' for the blimp circling the area. Shoot a 'Character Class' shot at the blimp. You get in the cannon..he shoots you at the blimp.. you blow it up.


Offline Aiden

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #183 on: August 12, 2011, 06:32:47 PM »
They also brought in an awesome scope for Hunters, it shoots a "critter" at the enemy- makes a sound and has an animation which also improves a stat, it is pretty funny but annoying after a while.

Offline Saerrael

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Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #184 on: August 12, 2011, 06:37:11 PM »
They also brought in an awesome scope for Hunters, it shoots a "critter" at the enemy- makes a sound and has an animation which also improves a stat, it is pretty funny but annoying after a while.

This thing caused a few FL wipes, due to me laughing my ass off while I was supposed to be healing.
What can I say? It's funny as hell.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #185 on: August 12, 2011, 07:18:51 PM »
They also brought in an awesome scope for Hunters, it shoots a "critter" at the enemy- makes a sound and has an animation which also improves a stat, it is pretty funny but annoying after a while.

what, pray tell, is this lovely bit of magic called?

Offline Aiden


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Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #187 on: August 12, 2011, 07:29:32 PM »
*grins*

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #188 on: August 12, 2011, 07:39:56 PM »
Oh grand..NOW I have a reason to do the damn dailies

Offline Callie Del Noire


Offline Chris Brady

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #190 on: August 13, 2011, 12:59:47 AM »
We're all going to hell...

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #191 on: August 13, 2011, 08:26:25 AM »
"Fur is murder!"
"So's kicking your ass!"

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #192 on: August 13, 2011, 11:26:57 AM »
My work here is done.. I've got folks reading. :D

Offline Chris Brady

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #193 on: August 14, 2011, 02:46:46 AM »
As for the original thread question, it's easy, the horde has Blood Elves! *giggles*

I couldn't resist, they're my favourite :-)

Besides, ever since Dungeon Keeper, "It's Good to be Bad" so, there you go, main reason to hate the goody Alliance :P
That's just it, the Alliance AREN'T good.  They're racist (they kicked out the Blood Elves for changing their names), they've created all the major villains in some way (Illidan, Medivh's creation of the Horde, Arthas AKA Daddykiller, AKA the LICH KING, Nathaniel Blightcaller, Major Samuelson being a Twilight Cult infiltrator, and you could probably lay most of the Troll trouble at the High Elven feet.  Not to mention the Naga and Satyr being of Night Elven descent) there are very few actual Horde 'villains' other then Gul'dan, and HE was tempted by Medivh.  Hell, even the Draenae (Sp) were part of the Burning Legion as the Eredar.

If you want the TRUE Heroes of Azeroth, play the Horde.  They're the goodie too shoes of Warcraft.  You want to play a villain, go Alliance.  That's where the evil is at.

Offline LunarSageTopic starter

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #194 on: August 14, 2011, 08:06:52 AM »
That's just it, the Alliance AREN'T good.  They're racist (they kicked out the Blood Elves for changing their names), they've created all the major villains in some way (Illidan, Medivh's creation of the Horde, Arthas AKA Daddykiller, AKA the LICH KING, Nathaniel Blightcaller, Major Samuelson being a Twilight Cult infiltrator, and you could probably lay most of the Troll trouble at the High Elven feet.  Not to mention the Naga and Satyr being of Night Elven descent) there are very few actual Horde 'villains' other then Gul'dan, and HE was tempted by Medivh.  Hell, even the Draenae (Sp) were part of the Burning Legion as the Eredar.

If you want the TRUE Heroes of Azeroth, play the Horde.  They're the goodie too shoes of Warcraft.  You want to play a villain, go Alliance.  That's where the evil is at.

That's way off.  Ridiculously so.  I can't even convey how off that is.

"The Alliance had more NPCs who turned into villains, so they must be villains!" 

I question that logic.  That's like saying all humans must be evil in real life because of all the humans who've been serial killers.

They have a handful of corrupt or racist (also, racist does not equate evil) NPC leaders but none of them are even close to as evil as Sylvanus who is a -Horde- leader. 

Seriously... show me a quest Alliance side where you knowingly do something evil.  I can point out more than a few Horde quests where you do just that.

This is not to say that the Horde are evil as a whole either... but to turn around and paint that same broad stroke on the Alliance is unfair.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 08:33:21 AM by LunarSage »

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #195 on: August 14, 2011, 10:15:57 AM »
That's just it, the Alliance AREN'T good.  They're racist (they kicked out the Blood Elves for changing their names), they've created all the major villains in some way (Illidan, Medivh's creation of the Horde, Arthas AKA Daddykiller, AKA the LICH KING, Nathaniel Blightcaller, Major Samuelson being a Twilight Cult infiltrator, and you could probably lay most of the Troll trouble at the High Elven feet.  Not to mention the Naga and Satyr being of Night Elven descent) there are very few actual Horde 'villains' other then Gul'dan, and HE was tempted by Medivh.  Hell, even the Draenae (Sp) were part of the Burning Legion as the Eredar.

If you want the TRUE Heroes of Azeroth, play the Horde.  They're the goodie too shoes of Warcraft.  You want to play a villain, go Alliance.  That's where the evil is at.

That's way off.  Ridiculously so.  I can't even convey how off that is.

"The Alliance had more NPCs who turned into villains, so they must be villains!" 

I question that logic.  That's like saying all humans must be evil in real life because of all the humans who've been serial killers.

They have a handful of corrupt or racist (also, racist does not equate evil) NPC leaders but none of them are even close to as evil as Sylvanus who is a -Horde- leader. 

Seriously... show me a quest Alliance side where you knowingly do something evil.  I can point out more than a few Horde quests where you do just that.

This is not to say that the Horde are evil as a whole either... but to turn around and paint that same broad stroke on the Alliance is unfair.

Not to mention all the bits it's leaving out, such as a irrelevant little person called Ner'zhul? You know, the ORIGINAL LICH KING? Who was an Orc?
- The all-Horde demon-worshipping Shadow Council who was the other half of building the Dark Portal, alongside the demonically possessed Medivh (who, you know, was possessed before birth by a Dark Titan, so can't really be blamed for what he did?)
-Nathanos Blightcaller is not a point in your favor - he died a hero defending Stratholme, and as soon as he was free of the Scourge, he joined up with the Forsaken and Sylvanas, becoming really evil in the process.
- Not sure why you pick on Major Samuelson, but conveniently forget about his opposite number High Shaman Sauranok.
- While we're at it, if we're blaming the Night Elves for the Troll problems, let's blame the Trolls for the Nerubian problem, since they also had a war...so the Trolls are directly responsible for the existence of a huge portion of the Scourge, and they're also responsible for nearly destroying the world through C'thun and the Aqir of Silthilus.
-Gul'Dan was not tempted by Medivh, he was tempted by Sargeras who was using Medivh as a meat-puppet;
- the Draenai were never part of the Burning Legion, they're specifically the eredar who remains uncorrupted.

So yeah - repeatedly factually incorrect and heavily biased pro-Horde propaganda, not to mention very logically shaky. It's people like you who are responsible for perpetuating the whole factional hatred thing, even when it makes no sense to do so. This sort of thing in-game makes perfect sense, but honestly believing it out-of-game is less so.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 10:19:28 AM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline Shjade

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #196 on: August 14, 2011, 11:30:27 AM »
What I honestly believe out of game: Both factions are dicks so everyone should side with the Argent Crusade.

=D

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #197 on: August 14, 2011, 12:19:02 PM »
What I honestly believe out of game: Both factions are dicks so everyone should side with the Argent Crusade.

=D

As long as they replace Tiron Fordring as the leader - the man whose bright idea it was to stage a massive gladiator death tournament on the Lich King's doorstep?

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #198 on: August 14, 2011, 06:56:48 PM »
That's just it, the Alliance AREN'T good.  They're racist (they kicked out the Blood Elves for changing their names), they've created all the major villains in some way (Illidan, Medivh's creation of the Horde, Arthas AKA Daddykiller, AKA the LICH KING, Nathaniel Blightcaller, Major Samuelson being a Twilight Cult infiltrator, and you could probably lay most of the Troll trouble at the High Elven feet.  Not to mention the Naga and Satyr being of Night Elven descent) there are very few actual Horde 'villains' other then Gul'dan, and HE was tempted by Medivh.  Hell, even the Draenae (Sp) were part of the Burning Legion as the Eredar.

If you want the TRUE Heroes of Azeroth, play the Horde.  They're the goodie too shoes of Warcraft.  You want to play a villain, go Alliance.  That's where the evil is at.

That's not true with the Blood Elves by the way..and the Dranei that came to Azeroth were the ones that DIDN'T convert to the Burning Legion.

Blood Elves are magic addicts. Always were. With the destruction of the Well of Eternity, they split off from the Night Elves and set up the Sunwell. They were the High Elves then till Arthras destroyed it. Then their leader turned to feeding on Fel Blood and Magic to stave off their addictions, that was when they became Blood Elves (Named so by the Prince to memorialize the fallen of Silvermoon).

Blood elf paladins stole power from a Naruu to fuel their powers.

With the re-ignition of the Sunwell, there is a chance for them to step back from the brink. But they aren't innocent victims but addicts who did what they had to satisfy their needs. Remember they allied with Illiadan and the Naga, only when Kael'thas' duplicity came out did any large faction of them break with him. (The Scryers)

The Draenei crashed do to the interference of the Blood Elf/Burning legion. They were the Eredar that DIDN'T turn to the legion and allied with the Naruu.

Basically, in my opinion, both sides have good and evil in them. Some of it from scars from war (Humans/Gnomes), some of it schism within themselves (the Dwarves), others it's their drives (Goblins) and for some it's their nature. (Undead). I don't think the Orcs, Trolls or Tauren are outright evil, but they have made some BAD calls to maintain their equilibrium.

Taking in the Undead..definitely. The Blood Elves possibly. The Goblins? Not sure. Appointing Garrosh Hellscream as warcheif was a mistake. He's more likely to split the Horde than the Alliance is.

The Alliance is several bombs waiting for the right fuse though. The humans have schisms that are waiting for the right hammer to split them and the Dwarves are one council meeting from Civil War.

And I think the Horde with a savvy leader to have turned the Undead from Gilneas and avoided adding a new member to the Alliance.

(Yes, I read way too much lore of the game I play. :D )

I find it sad the best bridge builders in the game, Thrall and Jaina Proudmoore, are in positions that prevent them from doing so. I think any hope of peace is moot till they make a move.

Offline Shjade

Re: (WoW) Why the Alliance Hate and Why is the Horde so Popular?
« Reply #199 on: August 15, 2011, 01:07:39 AM »
As long as they replace Tiron Fordring as the leader - the man whose bright idea it was to stage a massive gladiator death tournament on the Lich King's doorstep?
Are you kidding? It was a brilliant idea to get the PvP crowd out to Northrend to help the cause!