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Author Topic: Australian Internet filter switches on next month.  (Read 3237 times)

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Offline WolfyTopic starter

Australian Internet filter switches on next month.
« on: June 25, 2011, 12:20:27 PM »
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/111255-Australias-Internet-Filter-Switches-On-In-July

The country's two biggest service providers have voluntarily decided to censor more than 500 websites. Sure, they are only Child Abuse sites that you shouldn't be going to anyway, but still, where is the line to draw once people become accustomed to it? If people get used to it, could they not censor ANY site that they deem indecent or offensive?

Offline Beguile's Mistress

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Re: Australian Internet filter switches on next month.
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2011, 12:49:44 PM »
Those sites benefit no one and cause unknown amounts of harm.  Their existence should be wiped out but censoring what a private individual can access is wrong; just - plain - wrong.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Australian Internet filter switches on next month.
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2011, 12:53:38 PM »
There has to be hackers working to get around this already.

Offline Sabby

Re: Australian Internet filter switches on next month.
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2011, 01:12:22 PM »
If people get used to it, could they not censor ANY site that they deem indecent or offensive?

They can, and they will. I live here, and its depressing just how out of touch our politicians are with the modern world. I'm all for child porn being blocked, but next it will other 'indecent material' like beastiality, then anti-semeticism, the obscene violence, swearing... it will snowball, and me and other sensible citizens will be the ones who have to pay and have to fight for change :/

I elect all of Parliment be tossed into a nursing home and all seats filled with under 30 year olds.

Offline Anjasa

Re: Australian Internet filter switches on next month.
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2011, 07:38:38 AM »
There's already been innocuous sites caught (I believe there was an accountant's site?) and there's currently no appeal process.

As well, most people who access child pornography don't do so through sites because sites are too easy to be caught and shut down. It's all done through P2P downloading - which is why it's so hard to stop and, secondly, why this is simply something done to satiate moral panic without doing anything to actually help put an end to child pornography.

This isn't the first time Australia has taken an odd stance on stopping child pornography either - adult pornography with adult women with A-cup breasts are banned in Australia. As well, it's illegal to show a female orgasm in a pornography.

http://boingboing.net/2010/01/28/australian-censor-bo.html

"Australia has also banned pornographic depictions of female ejaculation, a normal orgasmic sexual response in many women, with censors branding it as 'abhorrent.'""

They're also moving to make it illegal to have a 50 year old woman dress up in a school girl outfit because of child sexual abuse.

http://www.zzinsider.com/blogs/view/school_girl_costume_may_become_illegal_in_australia

I appreciate the sentiment - no one wants to support child pornography - but all they're doing is criminalizing normal men and women's desires for consensual, adult role play. I can only imagine the ISP censorship will soon spill over into the A-cup school girl porn too.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2011, 07:40:22 AM by Anjasa »

Offline despickable

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Re: Australian Internet filter switches on next month.
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2011, 10:14:50 AM »
There are some television shows already covering some of these themes This report from an excellent Australian show Hungry beast covers the Internet fears

Internet Killswitch

Offline Oniya

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Re: Australian Internet filter switches on next month.
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2011, 12:14:48 PM »
As well, it's illegal to show a female orgasm in a pornography.

http://boingboing.net/2010/01/28/australian-censor-bo.html

"Australia has also banned pornographic depictions of female ejaculation, a normal orgasmic sexual response in many women, with censors branding it as 'abhorrent.'""

Just as a note - banning depictions of female ejaculation (aka 'squirting') is not equivalent to banning depictions of the female orgasm.  Not all female orgasms include ejaculation.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Australian Internet filter switches on next month.
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2011, 01:03:38 PM »
Thankfully the US has our First Amendment they can ban some things but due to legal difficulty going after porn is kind of hard, even stories with child sex is legal as long as there are no pictures with children in them. Not that I approve but once you ban one kind of speech that not is directly harming anyone then its the slippery slope.

And what is the matter with A-Cups I'm an A-Cup, and an adult not a child anyone sensible could tell the difference.

Offline Sel Nar

Re: Australian Internet filter switches on next month.
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2011, 05:06:23 PM »
anyone sensible could tell the difference.

And that's where you and the Australian parliament come to cross purposes.

Offline Brandon

Re: Australian Internet filter switches on next month.
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2011, 05:43:00 PM »
I really dont care what kind of content is on any site, it should not be blocked under any circumstances by a government. However as Im a believer in the first amendment (yes Im aware it doesnt apply to australians) I also believe that individual businesses have the right to run their business however they like. At the same time the customer has the right to take their money elsewhere if the business is not fulfilling their needs



Offline Revolverman

Re: Australian Internet filter switches on next month.
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2011, 07:14:18 PM »
Wow, this won't draw the anger of every group of hackers around to bring the pain on Australia.

Offline Braioch

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Re: Australian Internet filter switches on next month.
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2011, 09:01:18 PM »
Wow, this won't draw the anger of every group of hackers around to bring the pain on Australia.

Mmm, smell the incoming butthurt

Offline Anjasa

Re: Australian Internet filter switches on next month.
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2011, 07:14:34 AM »
Just as a note - banning depictions of female ejaculation (aka 'squirting') is not equivalent to banning depictions of the female orgasm.  Not all female orgasms include ejaculation.

Ah, that link I posted didn't specify that it had to be accompanied by squirting, though looking into it more, I see that's true.

Though still, I really don't like the idea of banning something that many women can't control as 'abhorrent'.

Australia has also ruled that cartoon depictions of Bart and Lisa Simpson engaged in sex acts is child porn and that "the mere fact that they were not realistic representations of human beings did not mean that they could not be considered people."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7770781.stm

To quote Neil Gaiman on the topic, "And I suspect the Judge might have just inadvertently granted human rights to cartoon characters."

http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2008/12/word-person-included-fictional-or.html

Quote
Thankfully the US has our First Amendment they can ban some things but due to legal difficulty going after porn is kind of hard, even stories with child sex is legal as long as there are no pictures with children in them. Not that I approve but once you ban one kind of speech that not is directly harming anyone then its the slippery slope.

The US has banned stories containing child sex, and has ruled against certain acts in pornography like anal fisting as being against obscenity laws.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obscenity#Non_image-based_obscenity_cases_in_the_USA

This is the reason, as I understand it, that Elliquiy and other erotica sites don't allow any written word erotica featuring under aged characters.

Offline WolfyTopic starter

Re: Australian Internet filter switches on next month.
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2011, 04:03:47 AM »
Indeed.

Though I hear that Lolicon was ruled as Legal, I think. @_@ So...drawn images OK, written stories not, apparently.

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Re: Australian Internet filter switches on next month.
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2011, 08:00:40 AM »
Lolicon refers specifically to underage females.  Shotacon is specifically about underage males.

Are you sure about your info?

Offline Anjasa

Re: Australian Internet filter switches on next month.
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2011, 03:15:49 PM »
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1466A.html

Illustrations of underage boys and girls has to be seen as 'obscene' and 'lacking artistic merits' for it to be illegal in the U.S., but since artistic merit and morals regarding what's obscene ranges from person to person, what one judge might deem illegal, another may deem acceptable.

Offline Lilias

Re: Australian Internet filter switches on next month.
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2011, 03:27:50 PM »
The Young Girl Erotica Repository is out in the open, requiring no signup to read the stories (which, as the name suggests, are all about sexually active underage females). Not sure how long it has been around, but certainly longer than my years on the internet (10). Why hasn't it been shut down? Because it's easier to regard a piece of fiction as having some artistic merit than a pictorial depiction.

Offline Anjasa

Re: Australian Internet filter switches on next month.
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2011, 04:08:40 PM »
Enforcing these laws are entirely subjective.

http://www.mostwantedhoes.com/news/childerotica1.php

Red Rose, for instance, had a text only site that included topics of child abuse, violence and murder, and she was charged and plead guilty.

It depends, a lot of the time, on your ability to get a good enough lawyer to fight the charges, and risk drawing a lot of attention onto yourself if you try to appeal a guilty verdict. Most of the time, though, it's more financially and personally reasonable to just plead guilty.

Offline Vekseid

Re: Australian Internet filter switches on next month.
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2011, 10:10:00 PM »
The US has banned stories containing child sex, and has ruled against certain acts in pornography like anal fisting as being against obscenity laws.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obscenity#Non_image-based_obscenity_cases_in_the_USA

This is the reason, as I understand it, that Elliquiy and other erotica sites don't allow any written word erotica featuring under aged characters.

Elliquiy has rather few legal obligations.
1) We are required to display a warning on the home page of this site that indicates that Elliquiy contains adult content.
2) We are required to report incidents of child pornography. Not drawings, not renderings, just photographs.
3) It is against the law for us to knowingly tolerate the use of our servers for breaking the law. For example, you cannot use Elliquiy's PM system to buy and sell drugs.
4) Similarly, we can't tolerate death threats, etc.

We are not required to ban literature in any shape or form. Elliquiy's limitation is driven by the community, it was 14 for a time and it's 13 on my other sites. There's no legal obligation for me whatsoever to have it. It is simply a personal choice on my part, with a higher limit on Elliquiy proper.

We aren't even required to ban minors from gaining entry. We're just prohibited from initiating the transfer of erotic material. Even then, the actual age limit is 17, not 18.

We go above and beyond as a courtesy to our members and to set a standard. It has nothing to do with fear of prosecution on these grounds.

Red Rose Stories reached an incredibly small audience (dozens), was isolated (no one willing to stand with them), and was run by a woman whose mental health was not capable of seeing her through the legal process, so she pleaded guilty to what was generally understood to be a rather poor case.

In the event of the US government attempting to shut down Elliquiy, we're more than just a blip on the radar. This is a decently visible site, with thousands of visitors. I don't have just Elliquiy to voice my concerns, I have well trusted accounts on other sites like Slashdot that can stir up some defense for free speech directly. I would also be sure to contact other major websites that might similarly be targeted next - ASSTR, Gelbooru, etc. It would catapult Elliquiy's visibility, and I'd dress up in a suit and stand before a judge with a lawyer from the ACLU advising me.

The thing is, prosecutors know this. They go after weak, small sites first, to try and build up case law. In our case, we don't actually physically mail anything erotic to anyone, so Polk County Florida's trick won't even work here.

Offline Anjasa

Re: Australian Internet filter switches on next month.
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2011, 05:00:15 AM »
Ah, very interesting, Vekseid!

I know another forums that doesn't allow any written child stuff because the servers are hosted in Canada, and because of the laws here. I assumed it might have been the same across the board.

Thanks for filling me in!

Offline didoanna

Re: Australian Internet filter switches on next month.
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2011, 04:01:41 PM »
Leaving aside the precise material that it is planned to ban....I don't think that the more anarchic Internet users will have any issue with sidestepping the ban.

Offline Sabby

Re: Australian Internet filter switches on next month.
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2011, 05:47:27 PM »
I'm not an anarchic or particularly capable internet user :P I can maybe install a spellcheck plugin for Firefox with some trial and error, but getting around a ban, doubt it. I shouldn't fucking have to. Grrr, sorry, this is not where I should go to just as I wake up.

Offline dad savage

Re: Australian Internet filter switches on next month.
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2011, 09:23:56 AM »

        Slightly off topic, well, sort of. This sort of stuff annoys me hugely (at least what was mentioned above about banning women with A-cup breasts in pornography) not only is it censorship its blatant descrimination. A grown woman with small breasts (even if she is all but flat) hardly looks like a child.

        In my opinion the whole 'child pornography,' issue in itself is blown out of proportion. There is zero reason for any ostensibly free, secular nation to ban it. Pornography containing actual children is a different matter entirely though, of course, and there should be vast penalties for making it (since it ineveitably involves abuse) and paying for it since that creates a demand. However I think people who have not paid for it should simply have it confiscated, while, don't get me wrong, I don't think that is an OK thing to do in the slightest (own an image which a child was abused to create) there are many commodities in the world which entail such things. Diamonds, for example. What's the difference between owning a diamond that was mined by a hobbled slave chained to a post, and an image that required a child to be abused? Apart from the inherent hysteria - negative or positive - with which society reacts to anything sexual. The hypocracy sickens me.

        Ivory, there is another taboo quantity that seems to turn peoples brains to mush. When they confiscate a huge stockpile they burn it. This is quite simply mind boggling. It would make far more sense to sell it, thus reducing demand before putting the proceeds into the work of halting the trade all together, but I digress. Child pornography (which does not contain children) is - in my understanding - legally objectionable because it depicts something most people consider taboo, which a minority consider titilating, and which, I guess, leads people to think about acts which are illegal. Is that not just a teensy bit Orwellian? And if that is the case why arn't images of violence illegal? Many people find them titilating. Many people watch violence films for a sense of vicarious carthasis.

        For that matter what about movies that (for dramatic purposes) recreate scenes in which individuals sexually inferfere with minors?

        I am a firm believer in the dictum that where there is no victim there can be no crime. Thus I personally think we should facilitate pedophiles with the same variety of sexual proxies which all other persons take for granted. While I admit it would be a distaseful industry I honestly fail to see how it could lead to anything but a reduction in those rare instances where actual pedophiles (the majority of child sexual abuse is not commited by persons who would be termed pedophiles, in the same way the majority of rape is not commited by persons with biastophilia, but by situational offenders) do commit such crimes. I also appreciate nobody would ever want to see a child-sized 'real doll,' (to use an example of something which might genuinely be catharctic for such people) I certainly could die happy without ever experiencing as much, but I also would never advocate that such things be simply made available. Surely a system could be arranged whereby a psychologist or psychiatrist might have to diagnose an individual first. Then such things could be handled all online or through the mail.

Seems the only way to be fair about it to me, though I do not expect anyone to like it. I do not like it myself. But I expect liberty for myself, and so I try to accord it to others.



Offline Kaoru

Re: Australian Internet filter switches on next month.
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2011, 03:21:05 PM »
They can, and they will. I live here, and its depressing just how out of touch our politicians are with the modern world. I'm all for child porn being blocked, but next it will other 'indecent material' like beastiality, then anti-semeticism, the obscene violence, swearing... it will snowball, and me and other sensible citizens will be the ones who have to pay and have to fight for change :/

I elect all of Parliment be tossed into a nursing home and all seats filled with under 30 year olds.

I completely agree. I do agree that of all the things that are horrible on the internet, child porn sites should absolutely be the worst, and the first on the list to be blocked.... however, lines are fuzzy. What about sites that have 18 year olds that looks like 15 or 16 year olds? What about animated child porn, where nobody is hurt? I would say only if they are actually >18, and it is actual (read, real life) porn.. and there was a clause in the law that said that was all that would ever be blocked. Period. Ever.